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#1
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Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables
I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire
system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter " error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error. I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a cable cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sam |
#2
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Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables
reset CMOS that should set things right- happened to me NUMEROUS times and
thats why I say that, unless you pay for GOOD rounded cables they are not worth it. (expensive doesn't gaurentee success either, I have gotten serious speaker noise from many of them) "SAMF2000" wrote in message ups.com... I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter " error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error. I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a cable cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sam |
#3
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Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables
What do you mean by "reset CMOS"?
What makes you conclude that the cylindrical IDE cables caused noise to be heard in your PC's audio speakers? *TimDaniels* "JAD" wrote: reset CMOS that should set things right- happened to me NUMEROUS times and thats why I say that, unless you pay for GOOD rounded cables they are not worth it. (expensive doesn't gaurentee success either, I have gotten serious speaker noise from many of them) "SAMF2000" wrote: I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter " error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error. I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a cable cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sam |
#4
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Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables
Obviously, it wasn't the round cables because the problem
persisted when you reverted to ribbon cables. It may have been the *process* of diddling in your PC's case. Have you tried switching to a different power cable? How old is your PC - your lithium battery might be run down or covered with an oxide layer *TimDaniels* "SAMF2000" wrote: I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter " error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error. I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a cable cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sam |
#5
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Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables
"Timothy Daniels" wrote in message ... What do you mean by "reset CMOS"? jumper the reset terminals and clear the cmos What makes you conclude that the cylindrical IDE cables caused noise to be heard in your PC's audio speakers? because when i removed them, the noise went away, it was bleed through, like you would hear when tuning an AM radio near the PSU. Also noise from mouse movement while using them(round cables). *TimDaniels* "JAD" wrote: reset CMOS that should set things right- happened to me NUMEROUS times and thats why I say that, unless you pay for GOOD rounded cables they are not worth it. (expensive doesn't gaurentee success either, I have gotten serious speaker noise from many of them) "SAMF2000" wrote: I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter " error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error. I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a cable cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sam |
#6
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Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables
SAMF2000 wrote: I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter " error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error. I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a cable cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sam The problem with rounded cables is called "crosstalk". If you look at the cable design, the 80 wire cable looks like this. . x . x . x . x . The X character is a grounded wire, while the "." wires carry a signal. The ground wire provides a reference for the signal, and makes the cable look closer to a controlled impedance. It improves the signal quality. The extra spacing between the "." wires reduces interference from one "." wire on the other "." wires on either side. Now, roll up the cable, so that one layer of wire is adjacent to the other. A small portion of the cross section would look like this. Depending on how tightly the cable is rolled, the displacement between layers, could take on just about any relationship. . x . x . x . x . . x . x . x . x . Now, some of the "." wires are getting closer to one another, than they would be if the cable was kept flat. The close signals interfere with one another, and sometimes a "1" signal gets switched to a "0" signal. If the disk is doing write operations, then corrupted data can get written to the disk. (Note - you can reduce the interference, by dropping down to ATA-33 or lower. Not that anyone would want to do that, when perfectly good flat cables are available.) A round cable must be fabricated, so that the interference is no worse than it would be in a perfectly flat cable. I've never heard of a standard for round cables, so there is nothing to spell out good practice for the companies who make them. (Although, if they have any engineers working for them, they should know about this problem.) You can see a product here, where they chop the cable into sections, then lay the sections on top of one another. The X's are offset, so each layer is shifted a precise amount. The X's form a "box" around the dots. If I had to make a cable, this is the way I would do it (from a theory perspective). Simulations and testing should still be carried out, to verify that the cable works. For example, the impedance of the signals is changed by this structure, which may or may not be important, depending on the Southbridge IDE driver output impedance. At least I can see some "science" in this product. http://www.hardwarecooling.com/produ...roducts_id/289 Not every claim in that advertisement, is for real. But the cables could be a bit better than a randomly rolled up alternative. None of my computers have rounded cables - for a reason :-) A better alternative, is to use SATA disks and SATA cables. A lot less air resistance with SATA cables. Paul |
#7
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Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables
JAD wrote: reset CMOS that should set things right- happened to me NUMEROUS times and thats why I say that, unless you pay for GOOD rounded cables they are not worth it. (expensive doesn't gaurentee success either, I have gotten serious speaker noise from many of them) Reset CMOS, And every jumper on the MB Too. Still no good. The trouble started right after I put the Rounded cables in ...Could the IDE Interface been affected somehow? anyway staying away from them forever. As For SATA Cables, my System Does not support it. my next one will though. thanks anyway...gotta sell these crap cables on Ebay I guess. "SAMF2000" wrote in message ups.com... I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter " error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error. I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a cable cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sam |
#8
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Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables
"SAMF2000" wrote in message ps.com... JAD wrote: reset CMOS that should set things right- happened to me NUMEROUS times and thats why I say that, unless you pay for GOOD rounded cables they are not worth it. (expensive doesn't gaurentee success either, I have gotten serious speaker noise from many of them) Reset CMOS, And every jumper on the MB Too. Still no good. The trouble you unplugged from the mains and used the jumper to accomplish this right? started right after I put the Rounded cables in ...Could the IDE Interface been affected somehow? anyway staying away from them forever. As For SATA Cables, my System Does not support it. my next one will though. thanks anyway...gotta sell these crap cables on Ebay I guess. "SAMF2000" wrote in message ups.com... I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter " error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error. I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a cable cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sam |
#9
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Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables
Sheeesh.... "round" cables are NOT rolled up ribbon cables.
In the case of 80-wire round cables, each data wire is twisted together with a ground wire, putting the data wire in constant adjacency with its own ground wire.- just like with spec'd IDE ribbon cables. How well this works is an open question, but I, for one, have never had a problem with them in the 3-4 years that I've used them with my (3) ATA/133 HDs. *TimDaniels* "Paul" wrote: The problem with rounded cables is called "crosstalk". If you look at the cable design, the 80 wire cable looks like this. . x . x . x . x . The X character is a grounded wire, while the "." wires carry a signal. The ground wire provides a reference for the signal, and makes the cable look closer to a controlled impedance. It improves the signal quality. The extra spacing between the "." wires reduces interference from one "." wire on the other "." wires on either side. Now, roll up the cable, so that one layer of wire is adjacent to the other. A small portion of the cross section would look like this. Depending on how tightly the cable is rolled, the displacement between layers, could take on just about any relationship. . x . x . x . x . . x . x . x . x . Now, some of the "." wires are getting closer to one another, than they would be if the cable was kept flat. The close signals interfere with one another, and sometimes a "1" signal gets switched to a "0" signal. If the disk is doing write operations, then corrupted data can get written to the disk. (Note - you can reduce the interference, by dropping down to ATA-33 or lower. Not that anyone would want to do that, when perfectly good flat cables are available.) A round cable must be fabricated, so that the interference is no worse than it would be in a perfectly flat cable. I've never heard of a standard for round cables, so there is nothing to spell out good practice for the companies who make them. (Although, if they have any engineers working for them, they should know about this problem.) You can see a product here, where they chop the cable into sections, then lay the sections on top of one another. The X's are offset, so each layer is shifted a precise amount. The X's form a "box" around the dots. If I had to make a cable, this is the way I would do it (from a theory perspective). Simulations and testing should still be carried out, to verify that the cable works. For example, the impedance of the signals is changed by this structure, which may or may not be important, depending on the Southbridge IDE driver output impedance. At least I can see some "science" in this product. http://www.hardwarecooling.com/produ...roducts_id/289 Not every claim in that advertisement, is for real. But the cables could be a bit better than a randomly rolled up alternative. None of my computers have rounded cables - for a reason :-) A better alternative, is to use SATA disks and SATA cables. A lot less air resistance with SATA cables. Paul |
#10
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Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables
"Timothy Daniels" wrote in message ... Sheeesh.... "round" cables are NOT rolled up ribbon cables. In the case of 80-wire round cables, some are exactly that... each data wire is twisted together with a ground wire, putting the data wire in constant adjacency with its own ground wire.- just like with spec'd IDE ribbon cables. How well this works is an open question, but I, for one, have never had a problem with them in the 3-4 years that I've used them with my (3) ATA/133 HDs. *TimDaniels* "Paul" wrote: The problem with rounded cables is called "crosstalk". If you look at the cable design, the 80 wire cable looks like this. . x . x . x . x . The X character is a grounded wire, while the "." wires carry a signal. The ground wire provides a reference for the signal, and makes the cable look closer to a controlled impedance. It improves the signal quality. The extra spacing between the "." wires reduces interference from one "." wire on the other "." wires on either side. Now, roll up the cable, so that one layer of wire is adjacent to the other. A small portion of the cross section would look like this. Depending on how tightly the cable is rolled, the displacement between layers, could take on just about any relationship. . x . x . x . x . . x . x . x . x . Now, some of the "." wires are getting closer to one another, than they would be if the cable was kept flat. The close signals interfere with one another, and sometimes a "1" signal gets switched to a "0" signal. If the disk is doing write operations, then corrupted data can get written to the disk. (Note - you can reduce the interference, by dropping down to ATA-33 or lower. Not that anyone would want to do that, when perfectly good flat cables are available.) A round cable must be fabricated, so that the interference is no worse than it would be in a perfectly flat cable. I've never heard of a standard for round cables, so there is nothing to spell out good practice for the companies who make them. (Although, if they have any engineers working for them, they should know about this problem.) You can see a product here, where they chop the cable into sections, then lay the sections on top of one another. The X's are offset, so each layer is shifted a precise amount. The X's form a "box" around the dots. If I had to make a cable, this is the way I would do it (from a theory perspective). Simulations and testing should still be carried out, to verify that the cable works. For example, the impedance of the signals is changed by this structure, which may or may not be important, depending on the Southbridge IDE driver output impedance. At least I can see some "science" in this product. http://www.hardwarecooling.com/produ...roducts_id/289 Not every claim in that advertisement, is for real. But the cables could be a bit better than a randomly rolled up alternative. None of my computers have rounded cables - for a reason :-) A better alternative, is to use SATA disks and SATA cables. A lot less air resistance with SATA cables. Paul |
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