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Hewlett-Packard & Circuit City
The following is being disseminated to a variety of media across the
country for potential investigation by "consumer alert" reporters. Consideration is also given to possibly disseminating to attorneys. Although the problem seems to originate with Hewlett-Packard, it culminates with an even greater questionable behavior by Circuit City. Read on..... ===== I have a consumer-related situation you may be interested in, especially with computers becoming a necessity in every household. It deals with whether stores/chains are providing expected services under their Extended Service (Warranty) Plans, or, in this case, a Computer Support Plus (CSP) Plan, and potential undisclosed "read the fine print" and misleading representations. In April 2000, our family had purchased a Hewlett-Packard Pavilion 8655C desktop computer at Circuit City, located on the Carlisle Pile in Mechanicsburg, PA. At that time, we also purchased a 3-year extended service/warranty plan called "Computer Support Plus (CSP)" for $269.99. This purchase of the CSP is documented on the same receipt reflecting the computer purchase. It was understood that the computer would fall under the Hewlett-Packard manufacturer warranty for the first 12 months, then would fall under Circuit City's CSP for an additional 36 months. From Day 1 when we purchased the computer, we have had problems with the computer freezing unexpectedly. This would occur whether we were on the Internet, using a browser, typing a document, printing a document, the children chatting with friends on Instant Messenger, and so forth. At the time, I had no idea what may have been causing the arbitrary freeze-ups. I initially thought it was memory, so I bought more. I then thought it may be a problem with Windows, so I upgraded to Windows Me (and subsequently to Windows XP). I had removed personal software (purchased separately which was not part of the initial disks provided with the system). That did not help. I had downloaded the latest recommended drivers. No change. Hewlett-Packard suggested I turn off certain services and automatic startup of software. Again, nothing seemed to fix the problem. I had taken down the system and restored only the "out-of-the-box" software which came with the Pavilion 8655C with absolutely no additional configurations or software, yet the system still froze randomly. The freezes would occur at any time, but it averaged after about only 30-60 minutes of use prior to freezing. Our inability to create/print documents, especially for school work or personal business, was driving us away from using our home computer but, instead, relying on my company laptop. Each time I would call Hewlett-Packard, I would speak with a different technician, and he/she would ask that I go through the same troubleshooting steps, although I explained time after time that "we had already checked that." The calls to Hewlett-Packard became an exercise in futility. I became quite dissatisfied with the lack of resolve by Hewlett-Packard, but we also have become quite dependent on a computer...ANY computer...and had no choice but to tolerate it. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=86...TF-8&scoring=d From time to time over the past several years, I continued to investigate the possible causes and resolutions by searching the Internet (Google) (http://www.google.com), using keywords such as "8655C freeze". This was done on both the "Web" and "Group" search tabs. It was interesting to see the number of postings in the newsgroups by individuals who had the exact same issue with this particular model number. These postings also cited Hewlett-Packard's lack of resolve comparable to what I had experienced. Some individuals gave suggestions on how to fix the problem (i.e., change the screen resolution to a much lower setting); however, although this seemed to help to some degree, it did not stop the system from freezing totally, and I felt that this was still an unreasonable fix considering we paid for a high quality monitor. The most recent postings seem to suggest an issue with the video card being defective. Years had passed, our patience wore thin, and we finally used a portion of our income tax return to purchase a new computer. There is no way we would ever consider Hewlett-Packard, not even for peripherals, following their lack of service. Our choices were Dell or Gateway due to past experience with those two brands and in doing research on reliability and service. We finally decided on Gateway. The Hewlett-Packard warranty had since expired (April 2001), and the Circuit City CSP is set to expire on 29 April 2004. Now that we will have a new computer, our dependency on the Hewlett-Packard is no longer critical, and we are able to pursue its repair for the random freezing on a full-time basis, especially in light of the CSP expiring in less than two months. Now for the kicker..... I called Circuit City on 14 March 2004 at 1-800-555-4615 to inquire about shipping the computer for repair for this ongoing problem. I spoke with a "John" (Technician Nr 4610) and explained the ongoing problem. I stated that we had an issue with this computer "from Day 1" and that I had received no resolve from Hewlett-Packard in my earlier attempts. This immediately caught John's attention that the problem "started while Hewlett-Packard's warranty was in force"; therefore, per John, it is a "pre-existing condition" and not coverable by Circuit City. I explained to John that Hewlett-Packard was consulted on this problem from the beginning, but they were unable to resolve it. The Hewlett-Packard warranty had expired, and Hewlett-Packard will obviously not longer cover such repairs for their defective computer. It now falls under Circuit City. I paid $269.99 for the extended warranty; I intend to use it. I then asked John, "So what you re telling me is that I cannot get this computer fixed either by Hewlett-Packard or by Circuit City even though the extended warranty is still in effect?" His response was that the problem was "pre-existing" by virtue that it started while Hewlett-Packard's warranty was in force; therefore, it was an uncovered defect under the Circuit City CSP. I find this to be completely unreasonable and very misleading in their sales pitch of the extended warranty plan. So, basically, even though I paid $269.99 for an extended warranty plan, I am without any coverage simply because I had this problem "from Day 1". I have since reviewed Circuit City's Terms and Conditions for their extended warranties and find the following items very interesting..... 7. Exclusions from Service. Your Plan does not cover the following: E. ANY AND ALL PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS THAT OCCUR PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THE CONTRACT. I can certainly understand Circuit City's position IF the computer were purchased without an extended warranty and then ONLY deciding to purchase such extended warranty AFTER a problem is detected. But, as I stated above, I purchased the extended warranty simultaneously with purchasing the computer. It is on the same receipt. However.....I then note the following definition of "Contract" on the same Circuit City webpage: 2. Contract. These Terms and Conditions, together with the sales receipt or other evidence of Your purchase of the Plan ("Sales Receipt") shall collectively constitute the entire contract relating to Your coverage ("Contract"). The Sales Receipt describes the covered Product, the commencement date of the Plan (which is Your purchase date), the duration of the Plan, and whether in-home service is applicable for Your Product. Although We retain a record of Your Plan and Product purchase, You are encouraged to retain Your Contract as proof of ownership. In the event Your Product is being serviced under this Plan when the Contract expires, the term of the Contract will be extended until the covered repair has been completed. Therefore, the above wording clearly indicates that the problems I had experienced with the Pavilion 8655C did not occur "prior to the effective date of the contract" since, in the last paragraph above, using Cicuit City's own wording, the "commencement date" equates to the "purchase date" of the Plan. Therefore, this being stated, the problems with the Pavilion 8655C freeze-ups should still be covered under Circuit City's CSP, regardless of what "John (Nr 4610)" says. You can review the actual Terms and Conditions by going to http://www.circuitcity.com/ and clicking on: Service (lower left column) Help & Service then Policies and Guidelines (right column) CityAdvantage Protection Plans then Computer Products (orange area) Terms and Conditions (lower right corner in orange area) I will continue to pursue.....however, request any investigation/assistance you may be able to provide in this matter. If Circuit City is unwilling to budge on this matter, I think it will be an excellent example of what to disseminate to consumers across America of what to look out for when purchasing extended warranties, and I will never step foot in a Circuit City store again and ensure that others hear of this experience. I will be more than happy to answer any additional questions you may have. I am providing specifics of the computer and purchase below for ease in your investigation. Name: Richard E Sgrignoli Address: [removed] Item: Hewlett-Packard Pavilion 8655C Desktop Computer Model: Pavilion 8655C Computer Serial: [removed] Circuit City Case ID: [removed] Thank you. Richard E Sgrignoli (H) xxx-xxx-xxxx (O) xxx-xxx-xxxx (C) xxx-xxx-xxxx |
#2
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"Richard E Sgrignoli" wrote in message m... The following is being disseminated to a variety of media across the country for potential investigation by "consumer alert" reporters. Consideration is also given to possibly disseminating to attorneys. Although the problem seems to originate with Hewlett-Packard, it culminates with an even greater questionable behavior by Circuit City. Read on..... ===== I have a consumer-related situation you may be interested in, especially with computers becoming a necessity in every household. It deals with whether stores/chains are providing expected services under their Extended Service (Warranty) Plans, or, in this case, a Computer Support Plus (CSP) Plan, and potential undisclosed "read the fine print" and misleading representations. In April 2000, our family had purchased a Hewlett-Packard Pavilion 8655C desktop computer at Circuit City, located on the Carlisle Pile in Mechanicsburg, PA. At that time, we also purchased a 3-year extended service/warranty plan called "Computer Support Plus (CSP)" for $269.99. This purchase of the CSP is documented on the same receipt reflecting the computer purchase. It was understood that the computer would fall under the Hewlett-Packard manufacturer warranty for the first 12 months, then would fall under Circuit City's CSP for an additional 36 months. From Day 1 when we purchased the computer, we have had problems with the computer freezing unexpectedly. This would occur whether we were on the Internet, using a browser, typing a document, printing a document, the children chatting with friends on Instant Messenger, and so forth. At the time, I had no idea what may have been causing the arbitrary freeze-ups. I initially thought it was memory, so I bought more. I then thought it may be a problem with Windows, so I upgraded to Windows Me (and subsequently to Windows XP). I had removed personal software (purchased separately which was not part of the initial disks provided with the system). That did not help. I had downloaded the latest recommended drivers. No change. Hewlett-Packard suggested I turn off certain services and automatic startup of software. Again, nothing seemed to fix the problem. I had taken down the system and restored only the "out-of-the-box" software which came with the Pavilion 8655C with absolutely no additional configurations or software, yet the system still froze randomly. The freezes would occur at any time, but it averaged after about only 30-60 minutes of use prior to freezing. Our inability to create/print documents, especially for school work or personal business, was driving us away from using our home computer but, instead, relying on my company laptop. Each time I would call Hewlett-Packard, I would speak with a different technician, and he/she would ask that I go through the same troubleshooting steps, although I explained time after time that "we had already checked that." The calls to Hewlett-Packard became an exercise in futility. I became quite dissatisfied with the lack of resolve by Hewlett-Packard, but we also have become quite dependent on a computer...ANY computer...and had no choice but to tolerate it. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=86...TF-8&scoring=d From time to time over the past several years, I continued to investigate the possible causes and resolutions by searching the Internet (Google) (http://www.google.com), using keywords such as "8655C freeze". This was done on both the "Web" and "Group" search tabs. It was interesting to see the number of postings in the newsgroups by individuals who had the exact same issue with this particular model number. These postings also cited Hewlett-Packard's lack of resolve comparable to what I had experienced. Some individuals gave suggestions on how to fix the problem (i.e., change the screen resolution to a much lower setting); however, although this seemed to help to some degree, it did not stop the system from freezing totally, and I felt that this was still an unreasonable fix considering we paid for a high quality monitor. The most recent postings seem to suggest an issue with the video card being defective. Years had passed, our patience wore thin, and we finally used a portion of our income tax return to purchase a new computer. There is no way we would ever consider Hewlett-Packard, not even for peripherals, following their lack of service. Our choices were Dell or Gateway due to past experience with those two brands and in doing research on reliability and service. We finally decided on Gateway. The Hewlett-Packard warranty had since expired (April 2001), and the Circuit City CSP is set to expire on 29 April 2004. Now that we will have a new computer, our dependency on the Hewlett-Packard is no longer critical, and we are able to pursue its repair for the random freezing on a full-time basis, especially in light of the CSP expiring in less than two months. Now for the kicker..... I called Circuit City on 14 March 2004 at 1-800-555-4615 to inquire about shipping the computer for repair for this ongoing problem. I spoke with a "John" (Technician Nr 4610) and explained the ongoing problem. I stated that we had an issue with this computer "from Day 1" and that I had received no resolve from Hewlett-Packard in my earlier attempts. This immediately caught John's attention that the problem "started while Hewlett-Packard's warranty was in force"; therefore, per John, it is a "pre-existing condition" and not coverable by Circuit City. I explained to John that Hewlett-Packard was consulted on this problem from the beginning, but they were unable to resolve it. The Hewlett-Packard warranty had expired, and Hewlett-Packard will obviously not longer cover such repairs for their defective computer. It now falls under Circuit City. I paid $269.99 for the extended warranty; I intend to use it. I then asked John, "So what you re telling me is that I cannot get this computer fixed either by Hewlett-Packard or by Circuit City even though the extended warranty is still in effect?" His response was that the problem was "pre-existing" by virtue that it started while Hewlett-Packard's warranty was in force; therefore, it was an uncovered defect under the Circuit City CSP. I find this to be completely unreasonable and very misleading in their sales pitch of the extended warranty plan. So, basically, even though I paid $269.99 for an extended warranty plan, I am without any coverage simply because I had this problem "from Day 1". I have since reviewed Circuit City's Terms and Conditions for their extended warranties and find the following items very interesting..... 7. Exclusions from Service. Your Plan does not cover the following: E. ANY AND ALL PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS THAT OCCUR PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THE CONTRACT. I can certainly understand Circuit City's position IF the computer were purchased without an extended warranty and then ONLY deciding to purchase such extended warranty AFTER a problem is detected. But, as I stated above, I purchased the extended warranty simultaneously with purchasing the computer. It is on the same receipt. However.....I then note the following definition of "Contract" on the same Circuit City webpage: 2. Contract. These Terms and Conditions, together with the sales receipt or other evidence of Your purchase of the Plan ("Sales Receipt") shall collectively constitute the entire contract relating to Your coverage ("Contract"). The Sales Receipt describes the covered Product, the commencement date of the Plan (which is Your purchase date), the duration of the Plan, and whether in-home service is applicable for Your Product. Although We retain a record of Your Plan and Product purchase, You are encouraged to retain Your Contract as proof of ownership. In the event Your Product is being serviced under this Plan when the Contract expires, the term of the Contract will be extended until the covered repair has been completed. Therefore, the above wording clearly indicates that the problems I had experienced with the Pavilion 8655C did not occur "prior to the effective date of the contract" since, in the last paragraph above, using Cicuit City's own wording, the "commencement date" equates to the "purchase date" of the Plan. Therefore, this being stated, the problems with the Pavilion 8655C freeze-ups should still be covered under Circuit City's CSP, regardless of what "John (Nr 4610)" says. You can review the actual Terms and Conditions by going to http://www.circuitcity.com/ and clicking on: Service (lower left column) Help & Service then Policies and Guidelines (right column) CityAdvantage Protection Plans then Computer Products (orange area) Terms and Conditions (lower right corner in orange area) I will continue to pursue.....however, request any investigation/assistance you may be able to provide in this matter. If Circuit City is unwilling to budge on this matter, I think it will be an excellent example of what to disseminate to consumers across America of what to look out for when purchasing extended warranties, and I will never step foot in a Circuit City store again and ensure that others hear of this experience. I will be more than happy to answer any additional questions you may have. I am providing specifics of the computer and purchase below for ease in your investigation. Name: Richard E Sgrignoli Address: [removed] Item: Hewlett-Packard Pavilion 8655C Desktop Computer Model: Pavilion 8655C Computer Serial: [removed] Circuit City Case ID: [removed] Thank you. Richard E Sgrignoli (H) xxx-xxx-xxxx (O) xxx-xxx-xxxx (C) xxx-xxx-xxxx Speaking as an ex-Circuit City employee, I can tell you how to get around this. I have had to do it on several machines I sold customers while I worked there. Ok here is what u do...a little time consuming but worth it for the warranty. But first let me tell u something, Bitching, screaming and pitching a fit will get you a WHOLE lotta nothing. Get a 9v battery, open your case. While the computer is running touch the 9V battery to the board on several leads, until it either shuts off or reboots. Keep doing this until it dies, and just won't boot anymore. Then call up Circuit City tech support and tell them the thing will not boot, they will try a few things usually takes 5-10 mins. MAKE sure you tell them it was working and then when you came to boot it, it just wouldn't boot. Then they will determine that there is nothing they can do over the phone. If you look your warranty covers power damage. They will send a technician to your house. Make sure you have replaced the cover of the case by this time. The tech will replace things then leave, pop open the case and repeat with the 9v. Again they will send a technivcian to your house. Fry it again after he leaves. Now your warranty states that you are entitled to a replacement by the time it breaks the 3rd time, they will try and replace it with the same model over the phone. SAY NO. Take your case numbers into circuit city and talk to the SOHO manager and tell him you are getting this fixed the 3rd time and you just want a computer that works, and that you were told that you could get a replacement in store. At this time the manager should give you a instore credit for the amount of the original price of the computer. If you want a good guarantee on your computers goto CompUSA, they have a STELLAR warranty on their stuff. Never had a prob;em with their stuff. In store technicians, and a replacement guarantee. You don't have to do anything just take it in and drop it off. Now I agree that tech support a lousy pack of sh*t heads. But you have to realise how many returns in a year these people would take if they didn't have a filtering process for them. They HAVE to cut down on the number of returns or they would go under. I mean how many times in a year do you think they hear I already tried that...and they tell them to do it again and it works? ALOT. |
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On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:35:09 -0700, "Chris Stolworthy"
wrote: If you want a good guarantee on your computers goto CompUSA, they have a STELLAR warranty on their stuff. Never had a prob;em with their stuff. In store technicians, and a replacement guarantee. You don't have to do anything just take it in and drop it off. The best thing to do is make friends with one of those goes in the neighborhood or a relative "who knows computers" and is trustworthy. And doesnt try to charge you for everything. My neighbor bought an e-machines at Compusa and a tv card that they recommennded with it and of course it didnt work right out of the box ! Total mess. I went with him to take it back for warranty work the next day and they go - "We dont have a TV cable line so there is no way we can test it." Also they didnt seem to have a clue how to see if it worked. Im not saying they werent earnest but they didnt seem to have a clue. There were a bunch of young guys who seemed to just have learned the basics of installing stuff and thats it. I ended up taking it apart and testing it and finding out that the ATI didnt get along with built in video at all. After I put in another video card in it , it worked fine. Overall though I really like my local COMPUSA. One thing Ive HATED Circuit City ever since they tried to pull an incredibly overtly sleazy deal on me 7 years ago. Ever since then Ive heard about and only seen sleaziness at their stores - no items stocked advertised , interminable waits when they do take your name down for a waiting list on an item they never had in stock on the day of sale, bait and switch tactics etc. Every once in a while for a laugh Id go to see if they had an item and nope. My neighbor actually went to try to buy a emachines advertised on the day of the sale before he went to Compusa. They admitted they only had two of them and they werre sold out way before he got there. However I think recently at least the local one has improved a bit in stocking SOME things advertised. I actually saw stacks of boxes of some things on the day of the sale - TWICE so far. And I have to admit if you do get the item - they seem so far to be good with rebates. Got every single one of the 3 I went for in the last few months with no hassles. |
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