XP OEM - Interesting conversation with MS employee

"Kerry Brown" *a*m wrote:



This has peaked my interest. A quick google search doesn't come up with the
answer. Does anyone know how many programmers worked full time on Windows
XP?

Kerry


I found a bit of information at
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/f...ndowsxprtm.asp


"For 10 months, up to 85 Microsoft developers and program managers,
test teams, and leads representing thousands of their colleagues have
participated in daily "war team" meetings ...."

So the numbers were in the thousands but no indication of how many
thousands.


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
http://aumha.org/alex.htm

On Thu, 12 May 2005 03:34:13 GMT, Ron Martell
wrote:

kony wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 18:35:54 -0500, "Carey Frisch [MVP]"
wrote:

Q. "How does MS justify that cost; maybe takes a quarter to make for them?"

A. Microsoft spent billions of $$$ to develop Windows XP. The cost to
manufacturer the CDs is irrelevant since they expect a return on their
massive investment. Also, ongoing improvements to Windows XP,
in the form of "Service Packs" and "hotfixes", are absorbed by Microsoft
and are offered free to the consumer.


You must be joking.
Cost is relative.

Good. You can pay the bills then.


What bills might those be?
MS essentially extorts money from anyone who builds a
full-featured PC. Their only bills are whatever they choose
to spend, most definitely NOT a necessary business expense
because they have no competitors in the commercial PC OS
market.

On Wed, 11 May 2005 19:20:52 -0600, Bruce Chambers
wrote:

kony wrote:



At this point you're making a giant leap.
How many people do you know that reviewed and accepted the
EULA before there was any penalty involved in declining it?



By clicking the Agree button, these people have claimed to have
they've read and understood the EULA, and agree to its terms.

Nope. They have a choice of two buttons. Click one and the
PC won't work. Click the other and it will. All they
agreed to was to click a button, because thanks to the MS
monopoly, they can't use their PC if they dont' click it,
they don't have any choice in the matter. The argument that
they can go somewhere and find out something more is not
valid. Terms of a product must be available at the point of
sale. If customer didn't buy WIndows from a linked MS
webpage they didn't have any chance to decline any terms.
MS is trying to take advantage of customers because they
feel they can get away with it. Monopoly.

I concede that initally that seems far-fetched, but in
reality that IS what it boils down to. Go take a survey of
"average" PC users, see how many of them can tell you
exactly what is in that EULA. Then compare that to how many
of them enter into any other kind of contract without
knowing what they agreed to. Your argument is based upon
so many stretches that by the time it has reached it's
conclusion it wouldn't apply to the majority of WIndows
users.

On Thu, 12 May 2005 01:26:25 GMT, Leythos
wrote:

In article ,
says...
Uniformed consumers have only themselves to blame. The information
necessary to make an informed purchased decision is readily available to
anyone with the initiative to seek it out.

My point exactly - ignorance is no excuse.


So let me get this right-

You personally guarantee that any product we buy will be
bound by terms posted somewhere OTHER than the product
itself, terms that aren't available at the point of sale?
Do you not see what a GIANT, MASSIVE loophole and utter
chaos that would create in many, many markets? Sorry but
that's nonsense, the product is sold with the terms attached
to that specific product (item). A customer can't go
elsewhere than where the product is and rely on an alternate
source of information and assume it applied to the specific
thing they were going to buy.

kony wrote:



What bills might those be?
MS essentially extorts money from anyone who builds a
full-featured PC. Their only bills are whatever they choose
to spend, most definitely NOT a necessary business expense
because they have no competitors in the commercial PC OS
market.


Right. Employees work for nothing. Electricity, telephones, water,
and other city services are provided free.

Wake up and face reality.


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
http://aumha.org/alex.htm

Do you know what an ad hominem attack is? It's a very lame way of debating
but one that you use constantly.

Alias

"Carey Frisch [MVP]" wrote

I suggest you also enroll in an Economics course after
completing your Contracts 101 course. It is quite obvious
you have a very limited education.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

Get Windows XP Service Pack 2 with Advanced Security Technologies:
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...xp/choose.mspx

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Alias" wrote:

| I dare say that an upgrade for XP Home is far less than $US 395 in the
| States which shoots your lame theory all to hell. MS is one of the most
| successful highway robbers in the history of the world and they have a
lot
| of gall making paying customers prove their honesty through PA and
charging
| so much for their software.
| --
| Alias



---
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Virus Database (VPS): 0519-0, 05/09/2005
Tested on: 5/11/2005 8:51:11 PM
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http://www.avast.com

In article ,
says...
Life is full of grey if you think you can avoid it you live in an imaginary
land.

Life is only full of Gray to those that want it to be full of Gray. In
many cases, if you remove emotion and religion (which is emotion) it's
more B/W than you would think. Good business managers can see
through/around the gray and see the real color of things.

--
--

remove 999 in order to email me

In article ,
says...
You personally guarantee that any product we buy will be
bound by terms posted somewhere OTHER than the product
itself, terms that aren't available at the point of sale?

No, YOU are responsible for your own actions and agreements. Just
because you might be too ignorant to read/learn, it's not a valid excuse
for not knowing. The information is fully available, easy to find, and
the information you need to start the learning process is presented to
you BEFORE you purchase (if you can read).

--
--

remove 999 in order to email me

Ron Martell wrote:
"Kerry Brown" *a*m wrote:



This has peaked my interest. A quick google search doesn't come up
with the answer. Does anyone know how many programmers worked full
time on Windows XP?

Kerry


I found a bit of information at
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/f...ndowsxprtm.asp


"For 10 months, up to 85 Microsoft developers and program managers,
test teams, and leads representing thousands of their colleagues have
participated in daily "war team" meetings ...."

So the numbers were in the thousands but no indication of how many
thousands.

But what we do know is the profit margin is around 85%. Far more than a
fair return for the creative labor of MS's employees!

"The limited scope of the copyright holder's statutory monopoly, like
the limited copyright duration required by the Constitution, reflects a
balance of competing claims upon the public interest: Creative work is
to be encouraged and rewarded, but private motivation must ultimately
serve the cause of promoting broad public availability of literature,
music, and the other arts. The immediate effect of our copyright law is
to secure a fair return for an 'author's' creative labor. But the
ultimate aim is, by this incentive, to stimulate artistic creativity for
the general public good. 'The sole interest of the United States and
the primary object in conferring the monopoly,' this Court has said,
'lie in the general benefits derived by the public from the labors of
authors' . . . . When technological change has rendered its literal
terms ambiguous, the Copyright Act must be construed in light of this
basic purpose." - http://laws.findlaw.com/us/422/151.html

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Ron Martell wrote:
kony wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 18:35:54 -0500, "Carey Frisch [MVP]"
wrote:

Q. "How does MS justify that cost; maybe takes a quarter to make
for them?"

A. Microsoft spent billions of $$$ to develop Windows XP. The
cost to manufacturer the CDs is irrelevant since they expect a
return on their massive investment. Also, ongoing
improvements to Windows XP, in the form of "Service Packs" and
"hotfixes", are absorbed by Microsoft and are offered free to
the consumer.


You must be joking.
Cost is relative.

Good. You can pay the bills then.

I could even on only a 20% profit margin.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"