overheating suspected - intermittent sys crashes

very sorry for the long post... much obliged to anyone who reads this!

i'm running an athlon thunderbird 900 on an abit kt7 board (with the latest
bios update)... the system has been stable since i build it almost 3 years
ago... until the past 6 weeks or so (note: 6 weeks ago marks the beginning
of summer in the upstairs of my non-air-conditioned house)

that's when i started experiencing intermittent system crashes/lockups... i
suspected it to be hardware related because:

1. it happened no matter what i was doing (various desktop apps, gaming, or
even nothing at all)

2. when the system locked up, it just FROZE... no blue screen, just a freeze
frame on whatever was displayed at that moment... if any audio was playing,
the audio would also skip like a broken record (note: the only exception to
this is that after 10 seconds or so of "freeze-framing" i would regain
control of the pc for about 2 seconds... then another freeze-frame... then 2
seconds of normality, then the cycle-repeats - during gaming however, i ONLY
get freeze-frames)


being slow on the uptake the way i am, i left this for a while (6 weeks or
so) and just dealt with it (the problem happened anywhere from 2-3 times a
day to once a week only)

i suspected it was my cpu overheating so i installed the VIA hardware
monitor app to check the temp... it was running 60 C to 71 C which is MUCH
hotter than it used to run when i first built the system (back then it never
broke 50 C)

so i upgraded the heatsink and fan, re-applied some thermal paste... and now
it runs MUCH cooler... (44 C - 51 C)

the only problem is... i still get the lockups from time to time... so

1. i've ruined my cpu by letting it overheat and lockup so many times before
2. there's something else happening... i don't know where to go from here


again many thank you's to anyone reading and offering advice

- kevin

Hi,

Well i dont think its a cpu problem, if it was broken it wouldnt work at all
in my previous experience. It could be a number of things, like a PSU
problem, my friends pc kept locking up and I changed the power supply and
its ok now or it could be a driver related problem.
Have you made sure the chipset fan still works? These can be prone to stop
working and the chipset will overheat.

I hope this helps in someway.
Doughnut



"missmuffy33" wrote in message
. ..
very sorry for the long post... much obliged to anyone who reads this!

i'm running an athlon thunderbird 900 on an abit kt7 board (with the
latest
bios update)... the system has been stable since i build it almost 3 years
ago... until the past 6 weeks or so (note: 6 weeks ago marks the beginning
of summer in the upstairs of my non-air-conditioned house)

that's when i started experiencing intermittent system crashes/lockups...
i
suspected it to be hardware related because:

1. it happened no matter what i was doing (various desktop apps, gaming,
or
even nothing at all)

2. when the system locked up, it just FROZE... no blue screen, just a
freeze
frame on whatever was displayed at that moment... if any audio was
playing,
the audio would also skip like a broken record (note: the only exception
to
this is that after 10 seconds or so of "freeze-framing" i would regain
control of the pc for about 2 seconds... then another freeze-frame... then
2
seconds of normality, then the cycle-repeats - during gaming however, i
ONLY
get freeze-frames)


being slow on the uptake the way i am, i left this for a while (6 weeks or
so) and just dealt with it (the problem happened anywhere from 2-3 times a
day to once a week only)

i suspected it was my cpu overheating so i installed the VIA hardware
monitor app to check the temp... it was running 60 C to 71 C which is MUCH
hotter than it used to run when i first built the system (back then it
never
broke 50 C)

so i upgraded the heatsink and fan, re-applied some thermal paste... and
now
it runs MUCH cooler... (44 C - 51 C)

the only problem is... i still get the lockups from time to time... so

1. i've ruined my cpu by letting it overheat and lockup so many times
before
2. there's something else happening... i don't know where to go from here


again many thank you's to anyone reading and offering advice

- kevin

Hi,

I personally dont know a way to trouble shoot a psu, but if you think its
worth considering then new ones arnt very expensive, I use an ernemax psu
but my brother uses a 550w Q-Tec which cost him about £25 and he has no
trouble running 3 hard drives 2x cdroms and lights and fans in his case.
Let us know how you get on and others may post in this thread which could
also help discover why you have this problem.

doughnut




"missmuffy33" wrote in message
. ..
thanks for the SPEEDY reply
all fans are operating properly
and all my drivers are up to date

i haven't considered the power supply... it's 300 W and came with my antec
full tower case (but is almost 3 years old now)

how would i troubleshoot it? just get a new one i guess? any recs?

thanks!


"Doughnut" wrote in message
. ..
Hi,

Well i dont think its a cpu problem, if it was broken it wouldnt work at
all
in my previous experience. It could be a number of things, like a PSU
problem, my friends pc kept locking up and I changed the power supply
and
its ok now or it could be a driver related problem.
Have you made sure the chipset fan still works? These can be prone to
stop
working and the chipset will overheat.

I hope this helps in someway.
Doughnut



"missmuffy33" wrote in message
. ..
very sorry for the long post... much obliged to anyone who reads this!

i'm running an athlon thunderbird 900 on an abit kt7 board (with the
latest
bios update)... the system has been stable since i build it almost 3
years
ago... until the past 6 weeks or so (note: 6 weeks ago marks the
beginning
of summer in the upstairs of my non-air-conditioned house)

that's when i started experiencing intermittent system
crashes/lockups...
i
suspected it to be hardware related because:

1. it happened no matter what i was doing (various desktop apps,
gaming,
or
even nothing at all)

2. when the system locked up, it just FROZE... no blue screen, just a
freeze
frame on whatever was displayed at that moment... if any audio was
playing,
the audio would also skip like a broken record (note: the only
exception
to
this is that after 10 seconds or so of "freeze-framing" i would regain
control of the pc for about 2 seconds... then another freeze-frame...
then
2
seconds of normality, then the cycle-repeats - during gaming however,
i
ONLY
get freeze-frames)


being slow on the uptake the way i am, i left this for a while (6
weeks
or
so) and just dealt with it (the problem happened anywhere from 2-3
times
a
day to once a week only)

i suspected it was my cpu overheating so i installed the VIA hardware
monitor app to check the temp... it was running 60 C to 71 C which is
MUCH
hotter than it used to run when i first built the system (back then it
never
broke 50 C)

so i upgraded the heatsink and fan, re-applied some thermal paste...
and
now
it runs MUCH cooler... (44 C - 51 C)

the only problem is... i still get the lockups from time to time... so

1. i've ruined my cpu by letting it overheat and lockup so many times
before
2. there's something else happening... i don't know where to go from
here


again many thank you's to anyone reading and offering advice

- kevin

missmuffy33 wrote:
thanks for the SPEEDY reply
all fans are operating properly
and all my drivers are up to date

i haven't considered the power supply... it's 300 W and came with my
antec full tower case (but is almost 3 years old now)

how would i troubleshoot it? just get a new one i guess? any recs?



(Originally posted by ric in alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt June 28,2003)

To test an ATX PSU:

First, disconnect everything from the power supply (including MB.) Plug
AC cord into the rear of the PS. IF the PS has its own rocker on/off
switch, turn it ON. There should be +5v on pin 9 of the 20 pin connector
(+5vsb, usually a violet wire.) There should be 0.8v on pin 14 (PS-ON,
usually a green wire.) This is from an internal pull-up to the +5vsb.

Connect PS power leads to 1 or 2 IDE HDs (for a load). Jumper pin 14
(PS-ON) to pin 13 (ground, black wire.) At this point, fan in PS should
start spinning, drives should spin, and + 5/12v, -5/12v, +3.3v, and
+5vsb should be present at 20 pin connector.

Disconnecting pin 14-13 jumper should turn supply back off.

Further, if the PSU starts:

When your system fails to start, what is the voltage on pin 9? If it is
less than 4.75v, either a) the logic on your motherboard is shorting
b) your +5vsb is under powered, or c) your PS is bad. It is
most likely a combination of b) and c).

If your +5vsb is OK, measure pin 14 of the PS/MB connector. If it is 0.8v
(and the +5vsb is OK), the power supply should be on. If pin 14 is 0.8v,
the +5vsb is OK, and the PS is OFF, the PS is bad. If pin 14 is 2.0v, the
power supply is being told to stay OFF by the MB. If depressing the front
panel ON/OFF switch does NOT lower pin 14 to 0.8v (and the +5vsb is OK),
then the problem is NOT the power supply, but rather MB related.






--
Winerr 00B - Push Error; Removing Files to Make Room for Advertisement

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:46:33 GMT
"missmuffy33" wrote:

very sorry for the long post... much obliged to anyone who reads this!

i'm running an athlon thunderbird 900 on an abit kt7 board (with the
latest bios update)... the system has been stable since i build it
almost 3 years ago... until the past 6 weeks or so (note: 6 weeks ago
marks the beginning of summer in the upstairs of my
non-air-conditioned house)

that's when i started experiencing intermittent system
crashes/lockups... i suspected it to be hardware related because:

1. it happened no matter what i was doing (various desktop apps,
gaming, or even nothing at all)

2. when the system locked up, it just FROZE... no blue screen, just a
freeze frame on whatever was displayed at that moment... if any audio
was playing, the audio would also skip like a broken record (note: the
only exception to this is that after 10 seconds or so of
"freeze-framing" i would regain control of the pc for about 2
seconds... then another freeze-frame... then 2 seconds of normality,
then the cycle-repeats - during gaming however, i ONLY get
freeze-frames)


being slow on the uptake the way i am, i left this for a while (6
weeks or so) and just dealt with it (the problem happened anywhere
from 2-3 times a day to once a week only)

i suspected it was my cpu overheating so i installed the VIA hardware
monitor app to check the temp... it was running 60 C to 71 C which is
MUCH hotter than it used to run when i first built the system (back
then it never broke 50 C)

so i upgraded the heatsink and fan, re-applied some thermal paste...
and now it runs MUCH cooler... (44 C - 51 C)

the only problem is... i still get the lockups from time to time... so

1. i've ruined my cpu by letting it overheat and lockup so many times
before 2. there's something else happening... i don't know where to go
from here


again many thank you's to anyone reading and offering advice

It's possible that the video chip or the north or south bridge chip on
the motherboard or one or more voltage regulators or the disk is also
not getting adequate cooling.

There's also the possibility that it picked up a virus.

- kevin


--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

There are so many variables for troubleshooting this type of problem. I'd
say before you tear your system apart trying to find a defective part, why
not put your system in an air-conditioned environment and see if the
problems persist. If not, you'll know that heat is a problem. With newer
systems running hotter all the time, the problem you're describing is almost
reaching epidemic proportions. The lower the operating temperature for heat
sensitive system components, the more stable a system will run ( provided,
you don't have a devective part or buggy software ).

-------------------------
Just another Democratic Slave
NO more Corporate Government
"missmuffy33" wrote in message
. ..
very sorry for the long post... much obliged to anyone who reads this!

i'm running an athlon thunderbird 900 on an abit kt7 board (with the
latest
bios update)... the system has been stable since i build it almost 3 years
ago... until the past 6 weeks or so (note: 6 weeks ago marks the beginning
of summer in the upstairs of my non-air-conditioned house)

that's when i started experiencing intermittent system crashes/lockups...
i
suspected it to be hardware related because:

1. it happened no matter what i was doing (various desktop apps, gaming,
or
even nothing at all)

2. when the system locked up, it just FROZE... no blue screen, just a
freeze
frame on whatever was displayed at that moment... if any audio was
playing,
the audio would also skip like a broken record (note: the only exception
to
this is that after 10 seconds or so of "freeze-framing" i would regain
control of the pc for about 2 seconds... then another freeze-frame... then
2
seconds of normality, then the cycle-repeats - during gaming however, i
ONLY
get freeze-frames)


being slow on the uptake the way i am, i left this for a while (6 weeks or
so) and just dealt with it (the problem happened anywhere from 2-3 times a
day to once a week only)

i suspected it was my cpu overheating so i installed the VIA hardware
monitor app to check the temp... it was running 60 C to 71 C which is MUCH
hotter than it used to run when i first built the system (back then it
never
broke 50 C)

so i upgraded the heatsink and fan, re-applied some thermal paste... and
now
it runs MUCH cooler... (44 C - 51 C)

the only problem is... i still get the lockups from time to time... so

1. i've ruined my cpu by letting it overheat and lockup so many times
before
2. there's something else happening... i don't know where to go from here


again many thank you's to anyone reading and offering advice

- kevin

I don't think you have an overheating problem. ~50deg C is about what I get
with my old Athlon Thunderbird operating under maximum effort, and this is
in a god-awful (for heat dispersion) Compaq minitower. Just out of
curiosity: Do you run more than one fan in your case? (Probably already
answered somewhere, but...) And does your motherboard throttle fan speeds at
all?

Sounds like a non-processor problem. Could be your GPU is overheating. (rare
but happens.) What kind of card do you have?
"missmuffy33" wrote in message
. ..
thanks for the advice... here's the log taken every 10 seconds with a 50
max
count... i don't see anything fishy... but playing Morrowind gave me a
crash
after about 20 minutes - pretty typical of my experiences




"Ben Pope" wrote in message
...
missmuffy33 wrote:
the reason i suspect overheating is that the lockups happen the MOST
during gaming... i can't seem to play for more than 10-20 minutes
without a lockup

and since games demand the most out of a system thus creating more
heat than an average windows session....

thank you all for your help... i'll be rebuilding a new system within
the next few months... should finances allow it... meanwhile i'll see
what i can come up with and post my results if i find any

Try running MBM5 with logging... when it crashes check the latest temps
/
voltages.

Try gaming with the side off of the case.

Ben
--
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a string...

yes i run 2 exhaust fans and one intake fan in my antec full tower case
(plus of course the fan on the cpu heatsink and the one onboard the mobo)

honestly couldn't tell you if my mobo throttles fan speeds... it's an abit
kt7... i'll do some research on it and see what i find

here's my gpu story... had a matrox g450 dualhead... swapped it for a PCI
geforce 2 mx from a buddy since my matrox wouldn't play many games... THAT'S
when i started having this problem... but that's also when SUMMER started
(hence my overheating analysis)

i ran that pci card for less than a month and bought an AGP geforce fx
5200... the problem SEEMED to have subsided for a while... but now it
happens consistently while gaming, and somewhat rarely during normal windows
operation (btw i use my pc approx. 10 hours a day between work and gaming,
etc.)

again many thanks...

- kevin


"Whitesell (Verizon)" wrote in
message ...
I don't think you have an overheating problem. ~50deg C is about what I
get
with my old Athlon Thunderbird operating under maximum effort, and this is
in a god-awful (for heat dispersion) Compaq minitower. Just out of
curiosity: Do you run more than one fan in your case? (Probably already
answered somewhere, but...) And does your motherboard throttle fan speeds
at
all?

Sounds like a non-processor problem. Could be your GPU is overheating.
(rare
but happens.) What kind of card do you have?
"missmuffy33" wrote in message
. ..
thanks for the advice... here's the log taken every 10 seconds with a 50
max
count... i don't see anything fishy... but playing Morrowind gave me a
crash
after about 20 minutes - pretty typical of my experiences




"Ben Pope" wrote in message
...
missmuffy33 wrote:
the reason i suspect overheating is that the lockups happen the MOST
during gaming... i can't seem to play for more than 10-20 minutes
without a lockup

and since games demand the most out of a system thus creating more
heat than an average windows session....

thank you all for your help... i'll be rebuilding a new system
within
the next few months... should finances allow it... meanwhile i'll
see
what i can come up with and post my results if i find any

Try running MBM5 with logging... when it crashes check the latest
temps
/
voltages.

Try gaming with the side off of the case.

Ben
--
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a string...

hi,
i read online that when it locks up press num lock on the keyboard. if the
lights go on (or off) it is a software problem. if there is no activity
(lights) on the keyboard then its a hardware issue.

kev
"missmuffy33" wrote in message
...
yes i run 2 exhaust fans and one intake fan in my antec full tower case
(plus of course the fan on the cpu heatsink and the one onboard the mobo)

honestly couldn't tell you if my mobo throttles fan speeds... it's an abit
kt7... i'll do some research on it and see what i find

here's my gpu story... had a matrox g450 dualhead... swapped it for a PCI
geforce 2 mx from a buddy since my matrox wouldn't play many games...
THAT'S
when i started having this problem... but that's also when SUMMER started
(hence my overheating analysis)

i ran that pci card for less than a month and bought an AGP geforce fx
5200... the problem SEEMED to have subsided for a while... but now it
happens consistently while gaming, and somewhat rarely during normal
windows
operation (btw i use my pc approx. 10 hours a day between work and gaming,
etc.)

again many thanks...

- kevin


"Whitesell (Verizon)" wrote in
message ...
I don't think you have an overheating problem. ~50deg C is about what I
get
with my old Athlon Thunderbird operating under maximum effort, and this
is
in a god-awful (for heat dispersion) Compaq minitower. Just out of
curiosity: Do you run more than one fan in your case? (Probably already
answered somewhere, but...) And does your motherboard throttle fan
speeds
at
all?

Sounds like a non-processor problem. Could be your GPU is overheating.
(rare
but happens.) What kind of card do you have?
"missmuffy33" wrote in message
. ..
thanks for the advice... here's the log taken every 10 seconds with a
50
max
count... i don't see anything fishy... but playing Morrowind gave me a
crash
after about 20 minutes - pretty typical of my experiences




"Ben Pope" wrote in message
...
missmuffy33 wrote:
the reason i suspect overheating is that the lockups happen the
MOST
during gaming... i can't seem to play for more than 10-20 minutes
without a lockup

and since games demand the most out of a system thus creating more
heat than an average windows session....

thank you all for your help... i'll be rebuilding a new system
within
the next few months... should finances allow it... meanwhile i'll
see
what i can come up with and post my results if i find any

Try running MBM5 with logging... when it crashes check the latest
temps
/
voltages.

Try gaming with the side off of the case.

Ben
--
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a string...

ki,
the place i found out is at:
http://www.geocities.com/expertgeorg...e-lockups.html
not much info but he does give a email address.

kev
"missmuffy33" wrote in message
...
update on my last post... after further testing i found that sometimes the
caps lock and num lock lights toggle on and off during a freeze... and
sometimes they don't... i don't believe that is any indication of a
hardware
vs software problem

also... my situation is getting desperate... games don't even play for 5
seconds now... once loaded they freeze up almost immediately

i'm getting ready to test again with case off and box fan on high facing
the
thing


"kevin tass" wrote in message
...
hi,
i read online that when it locks up press num lock on the keyboard. if
the
lights go on (or off) it is a software problem. if there is no activity
(lights) on the keyboard then its a hardware issue.

kev
"missmuffy33" wrote in message
...
yes i run 2 exhaust fans and one intake fan in my antec full tower
case
(plus of course the fan on the cpu heatsink and the one onboard the
mobo)

honestly couldn't tell you if my mobo throttles fan speeds... it's an
abit
kt7... i'll do some research on it and see what i find

here's my gpu story... had a matrox g450 dualhead... swapped it for a
PCI
geforce 2 mx from a buddy since my matrox wouldn't play many games...
THAT'S
when i started having this problem... but that's also when SUMMER
started
(hence my overheating analysis)

i ran that pci card for less than a month and bought an AGP geforce fx
5200... the problem SEEMED to have subsided for a while... but now it
happens consistently while gaming, and somewhat rarely during normal
windows
operation (btw i use my pc approx. 10 hours a day between work and
gaming,
etc.)

again many thanks...

- kevin


"Whitesell (Verizon)" wrote
in
message ...
I don't think you have an overheating problem. ~50deg C is about
what
I
get
with my old Athlon Thunderbird operating under maximum effort, and
this
is
in a god-awful (for heat dispersion) Compaq minitower. Just out of
curiosity: Do you run more than one fan in your case? (Probably
already
answered somewhere, but...) And does your motherboard throttle fan
speeds
at
all?

Sounds like a non-processor problem. Could be your GPU is
overheating.
(rare
but happens.) What kind of card do you have?
"missmuffy33" wrote in message
. ..
thanks for the advice... here's the log taken every 10 seconds
with
a
50
max
count... i don't see anything fishy... but playing Morrowind gave
me
a
crash
after about 20 minutes - pretty typical of my experiences




"Ben Pope" wrote in message
...
missmuffy33 wrote:
the reason i suspect overheating is that the lockups happen
the
MOST
during gaming... i can't seem to play for more than 10-20
minutes
without a lockup

and since games demand the most out of a system thus creating
more
heat than an average windows session....

thank you all for your help... i'll be rebuilding a new system
within
the next few months... should finances allow it... meanwhile
i'll
see
what i can come up with and post my results if i find any

Try running MBM5 with logging... when it crashes check the
latest
temps
/
voltages.

Try gaming with the side off of the case.

Ben
--
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a string...