Any Idea? Weird HDD problem

Hi,
Working with Windows ME on a pc with a MSI K7T Pro mobo, used two HDD's, a
80 Gb Maxtor 6L080J4 (IDE) and a 40 Gb Maxtor.
That one was near full, so I decided to exchange that one for a Maxtor 80
Gb-6Y080P0, as the other one, except a 8Mb cache, in stead off 2 Mb.

Updated the BIOS of the K7T Pro, with full reset, so it might be possible
some setting is wrong.

Now when I move or copy files from old to new, the system becomes as slow as
could be. First two or three are okay, than, per example, clicking on File -
new folder - it takes near 2 minutes before I see the new pictogram, change
the word 'newfolder' into whatever, press enter; have to wait another near 2
minutes, before I can press enter to open the newly created folder. Than,
after another two minutes I'm able to copy ore move files to there

What did I do:
In MS-config unselected all active programs, including spam- and virus
watcher.
Installed a memory manager, three different programs, no result. It doesn't
seem to be a memory problem.
Used PowerMax 4 to test the new HDD, is okay.
Replaced the Matrox Marvel AGP for a brand new ASUS MX4000 (128 Mb versus 8
Mb)

Some person asked if 'this was a regular IDE-disk, not a S-ATA or so...
That made me think...
On www.maxtor.com it says Ultra ATA/133 & SATA 150 and that puzzles me....
Is this still standard IDE?

Any Idea where it comes from, this snail like working?

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 23:49:31 +0200, "Douwe"
wrote:

Hi,
Working with Windows ME on a pc with a MSI K7T Pro mobo, used two HDD's, a
80 Gb Maxtor 6L080J4 (IDE) and a 40 Gb Maxtor.
That one was near full, so I decided to exchange that one for a Maxtor 80
Gb-6Y080P0, as the other one, except a 8Mb cache, in stead off 2 Mb.

Updated the BIOS of the K7T Pro, with full reset, so it might be possible
some setting is wrong.

Does K7T Pro use the Via 686 southbridge?
If so, it has the potential IDE data-corruption problem.
An online search will provide more detail, search for "Via
Latency Patch", and use the newest Via 4in1 driver.


Now when I move or copy files from old to new, the system becomes as slow as
could be.

Check Device Manager, properties for both drives should show the
DMA checkbox, checked... check it if it isn't.


First two or three are okay, than, per example, clicking on File -
new folder - it takes near 2 minutes before I see the new pictogram, change
the word 'newfolder' into whatever, press enter; have to wait another near 2
minutes, before I can press enter to open the newly created folder. Than,
after another two minutes I'm able to copy ore move files to there

I "could" be wrong, but believe that Win9x has a memory bug such
that this will happen after copying a lot of files. At one point
I was thinking about trying to investigate and solve this
problem, but like many things it took a back seat to other more
pressing matters (plus newer OS came out).

If you have Explorer extensions installed, like those with
Norton/Symantec software, McAfee/Network Associates, or other 3rd
party features, uninstall them, then having an idea of what it
took to cause the problem, try to recreating problem.

What did I do:
In MS-config unselected all active programs, including spam- and virus
watcher.
Installed a memory manager, three different programs, no result. It doesn't
seem to be a memory problem.

Don't have memory managers or any type of "helper" software
running, it is not going to be of benefit. Could be just the
opposite, that a clean install wouldn't show this problem. There
is something else to test - backup current OS install, create
clean install and see if problem persists. If it does, restore
backup, but if problem is resolved, keep new OS install instead.

Used PowerMax 4 to test the new HDD, is okay.
Replaced the Matrox Marvel AGP for a brand new ASUS MX4000 (128 Mb versus 8
Mb)

Some person asked if 'this was a regular IDE-disk, not a S-ATA or so...
That made me think...
On www.maxtor.com it says Ultra ATA/133 & SATA 150 and that puzzles me....
Is this still standard IDE?

Yes, if it uses the 40-pin connector like the other drives, then
it isn't SATA. ATA133 and SATA are two distinctly different
intefaces, a drive can only be one or the other (unless you buy a
3rd party adapter to convert one to the other).


Any Idea where it comes from, this snail like working?

You could try (temporarily) disabling audio and see if that makes
a difference. Above I mentioned the potential that this problem
is unique to Win9x... although the problem may be resolved and
allow you to still run WinM (one of the Win9x family) it should
also be resolved by using Win2K or XP instead, though I'd try a
clean install of WInME before purchasing 2K or XP... that is if
you were otherwise happy with WinME (some people are, some
aren't).

"kony" wrote...

Does K7T Pro use the Via 686 southbridge?
If so, it has the potential IDE data-corruption problem.
An online search will provide more detail, search for "Via
Latency Patch", and use the newest Via 4in1 driver.

I can't find an answer to this; I'll take it for granted that MSI / VIA
repaired this and I used the latest 4in1 driver. Can't reach the site for
some mysterious reason (http://download.viahardware.com/vlatency_v019.zip.)


First two or three are okay, than, per example, clicking on File -
new folder - it takes near 2 minutes before I see the new pictogram,
change
the word 'newfolder' into whatever, press enter; have to wait another
near 2
minutes, before I can press enter to open the newly created folder. Than,
after another two minutes I'm able to copy ore move files to there

I "could" be wrong, but believe that Win9x has a memory bug such
that this will happen after copying a lot of files. At one point
I was thinking about trying to investigate and solve this
problem, but like many things it took a back seat to other more
pressing matters (plus newer OS came out).

I don't know if there was any, worked with 98 - 98SE - ME from the day they
came. Have to use DOS on this same machine (still working with Lotus 123),
so XP is out of order there.

If you have Explorer extensions installed, like those with
Norton/Symantec software, McAfee/Network Associates, or other 3rd
party features, uninstall them, then having an idea of what it
took to cause the problem, try to recreating problem.

No, at this moment I don't have any of this running. As I wrote, in MSconfig
I closed all opening programs, one of the first things I do whenever
problems occur.


Don't have memory managers or any type of "helper" software
running, it is not going to be of benefit. Could be just the
opposite, that a clean install wouldn't show this problem. There
is something else to test - backup current OS install, create
clean install and see if problem persists. If it does, restore
backup, but if problem is resolved, keep new OS install instead.

Did a clean install, still the same problem

Yes, if it uses the 40-pin connector like the other drives, then
it isn't SATA. ATA133 and SATA are two distinctly different
intefaces, a drive can only be one or the other (unless you buy a
3rd party adapter to convert one to the other).

I do, the 40-pin connector with the 80-core round cable.


Any Idea where it comes from, this snail like working?

You could try (temporarily) disabling audio and see if that makes
a difference. Above I mentioned the potential that this problem
is unique to Win9x... although the problem may be resolved and
allow you to still run WinM (one of the Win9x family) it should
also be resolved by using Win2K or XP instead, though I'd try a
clean install of WInME before purchasing 2K or XP... that is if
you were otherwise happy with WinME (some people are, some
aren't).

I am (WAS!) happy with ME, there's nothing wrong with it, except the large
HD-drive one needs (ME is copied and the back-up).

Thank you for your help, no luck so far, except for the Via-patch, not tried
(and not sure it's necessary)

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 11:26:20 +0200, "Douwe"
wrote:


"kony" wrote...

Does K7T Pro use the Via 686 southbridge?
If so, it has the potential IDE data-corruption problem.
An online search will provide more detail, search for "Via
Latency Patch", and use the newest Via 4in1 driver.

I can't find an answer to this; I'll take it for granted that MSI / VIA
repaired this and I used the latest 4in1 driver.

Yes, it uses Via 686B southbridge.


Can't reach the site for
some mysterious reason (http://download.viahardware.com/vlatency_v019.zip.)

http://69.36.189.159/vlatency_v019.zip


snip

If you have Explorer extensions installed, like those with
Norton/Symantec software, McAfee/Network Associates, or other 3rd
party features, uninstall them, then having an idea of what it
took to cause the problem, try to recreating problem.

No, at this moment I don't have any of this running. As I wrote, in MSconfig
I closed all opening programs, one of the first things I do whenever
problems occur.

If the applications are installed, the extensions will be also,
some of which cannot even be deselected, no choice not to install
them. You will not be able to disable them by using MSCONFIG,
and they will not be visable if you hit CTRLALTDEL. The
only way to be rid of them is a manual registry edit, which could
cause error messages if done improperly (I cannot provide a guide
to doing this) or uninstalling programs. Uninstalling the
programs is the highly preferred solution.

While on the topic, scan system for spyware/viri/etc.



backup, but if problem is resolved, keep new OS install instead.

Did a clean install, still the same problem

Oh well, nevermind the above then.



Yes, if it uses the 40-pin connector like the other drives, then
it isn't SATA. ATA133 and SATA are two distinctly different
intefaces, a drive can only be one or the other (unless you buy a
3rd party adapter to convert one to the other).

I do, the 40-pin connector with the 80-core round cable.


Any Idea where it comes from, this snail like working?

You could try (temporarily) disabling audio and see if that makes
a difference. Above I mentioned the potential that this problem
is unique to Win9x... although the problem may be resolved and
allow you to still run WinM (one of the Win9x family) it should
also be resolved by using Win2K or XP instead, though I'd try a
clean install of WInME before purchasing 2K or XP... that is if
you were otherwise happy with WinME (some people are, some
aren't).

I am (WAS!) happy with ME, there's nothing wrong with it, except the large
HD-drive one needs (ME is copied and the back-up).

When using the Via 4in1, you should be able to use large drives
(in Windows, and DOS window running windows but not booted to DOS
beyond the 128GB limit (could limit that with partitioning below
that limit)), but over 128 (real) GB you'd not be able to use MS
Scandisk or Disk Defrag... in such cases it is the exception to
my aversion to Norton/Symantec products, that their utility suite
includes a Disk Doctor and Speed Disk application that will work,
are suitable replacements for Win9x.



Thank you for your help, no luck so far, except for the Via-patch, not tried
(and not sure it's necessary)

There were few manual ways to change bios settings for some of
the benefits of the patch. A couple of bios setting changes that
you might try:

PCI Delay Transaction - Disable

PCI Latency - Increase to 80 or above. For example, if presently
set to 32, set to 80. If set to 64-80, try 96.

I had assumed your system is not overclocked. If it is, to the
extent that the FSB is higher and putting the PCI bus out of
spec, return it to non-overclocked values for testing.

A damaged IDE cable (or just not plugged in good) can also cause
problems, but generally it does more than pause Explorer, can
make all activity pause.

"Duddits" wrote...

Do you have DMA enabled?
http://snipurl.com/7pet

regards

Dud

They are. Thank you Dud.

"kony" wrote...
On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 11:26:20 +0200, "Douwe"
wrote:


"kony" wrote...

Does K7T Pro use the Via 686 southbridge?
If so, it has the potential IDE data-corruption problem.
An online search will provide more detail, search for "Via
Latency Patch", and use the newest Via 4in1 driver.

I can't find an answer to this; I'll take it for granted that MSI / VIA
repaired this and I used the latest 4in1 driver.

Yes, it uses Via 686B southbridge.


Can't reach the site for
some mysterious reason
(http://download.viahardware.com/vlatency_v019.zip.)

http://69.36.189.159/vlatency_v019.zip


This time the e-mail address is near for real, only the last character
should be com. Maybe some nice person here is able to mail me the
vlatency_v019.zip, please?

Dear Kony, I'll get back on this when that patch is installed.
Thank you so far

Douwe

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 20:50:34 +0200, "Douwe"
wrote:


http://69.36.189.159/vlatency_v019.zip


This time the e-mail address is near for real, only the last character
should be com. Maybe some nice person here is able to mail me the
vlatency_v019.zip, please?

OOPS!
Forgot to verify the link as working, sorry about that.
It should've been,
http://69.36.189.159/usr_1034/vlatency_v019.zip

"kony" wrote...


Yes, it uses Via 686B southbridge.

Thank you for helping, but this didn't solve the problem; it's still
installed


When using the Via 4in1, you should be able to use large drives
(in Windows, and DOS window running windows but not booted to DOS
beyond the 128GB limit (could limit that with partitioning below
that limit)), but over 128 (real) GB you'd not be able to use MS
Scandisk or Disk Defrag... in such cases it is the exception to
my aversion to Norton/Symantec products, that their utility suite
includes a Disk Doctor and Speed Disk application that will work,
are suitable replacements for Win9x.

Have this other 80 Mb HD (Maxtor 6L080J4) over a year now and it works fine.


There were few manual ways to change bios settings for some of
the benefits of the patch. A couple of bios setting changes that
you might try:

PCI Delay Transaction - Disable

PCI Latency - Increase to 80 or above. For example, if presently
set to 32, set to 80. If set to 64-80, try 96.

I had assumed your system is not overclocked. If it is, to the
extent that the FSB is higher and putting the PCI bus out of
spec, return it to non-overclocked values for testing.

A damaged IDE cable (or just not plugged in good) can also cause
problems, but generally it does more than pause Explorer, can
make all activity pause.

Cannot find the PCI-adjustments in the BIOS, suppose these aren't there.

While working at the machine, such as a simple uncompress a zipped file, it
takes hours for just 100 kB files. This is unworkable this way... A Restart
helps, but after copying files, the same problems occur.

Don't know what to do any more.

Douwe

"Trent©" wrote...
On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:08:05 +0200, "Douwe"
wrote:

Don't know what to do any more.

Besides all the suggestions I gave you in my previous post, try
reverting to the old BIOS.

When making changes like you've done, you should NEVER do 2 or more at
the same time. Do one...see how it goes...then do another.

Good luck.


Have a nice week...

Trent©

With respect, it's not so strange to flash the bios before installing a HD,
is it?

Regards,
Douwe

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:55:06 +0200, "Douwe"
wrote:



With respect, it's not so strange to flash the bios before installing a HD,
is it?

It's not strange, but your problem is, so we have to consider all
potential issues.

You might try swapping drive IDE positions and see if same drive
still has a problem. Try that drive in a different system. I
may be overlooking something but it seems like we're narrowing
down possibilities towards it being a malfunctioning drive.