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Skybuck's Dream PC dead again for the (4th?) zillion-th time ?!? (Electrical fault with X-Fi Elite Pro Soundblaster)
Hello,
My Dream PC from 2006 just died again, this time I will remain calm since I am used to it by now. I will describe what happened and probably caused it to die below: Months before it died: 1. Creative Labs X-Fi drivers hanging the system on shutdown, many forced resets and power downs but this is probably not the main reason. What led to the situation: 1. Running out of harddisk space. 2. Buying new harddisks. 3. Having to de-tach cables to be able to work on PC. 4. Not being able to tell how to re-attach 7.1 surround sound cables from receiver. Ok here I was playing with a Windows 7 for the first time on real hardware. 1. Wanting to get the sound working again, installing drivers. 2. Had to attach 7.1 cables. 3. When attaching the cables I noticed strange sounds like buzzes when plugging them into PC, PC was on, Receiver was on. 4. I had to figure out which way to attach the cables there were 3 cables. Speakers: Front/Left/Right/Center Left/Center Right/Rear Right/Rear Left (subwoofer not present). So the creative labs X-Fi Elite Pro soundblaster probably has electrical faults. I just checked the outputs from the onboard audio chip and holes from the motherboard itself, they seem to be protected with sound kind of plastic or keramic, while the plugs/holes from the creative labs x-fi soundblaster are of gold and probably conducting. 1. The cables were not correctly plugged in... I swapped them a couple of times leading to more buzzes when I pulled them out and plugged them in. 2. Finally I decided to consult the build-plan that came with the soundblaster to see how to correctly attach the cables. 3. A final buzz heard, now all speakers were correctly connected again. So far so good the system work for two days... I was enjoying my music. Windows Seven was kinda driving me nuts with all my old software missing, so I was reading how to boot into a VHD, I copied my old disk to VHD. To add salt to injury.. creative labs probably also responsible for causing 8 KB of bad sector on my harddisk... it probably crashed the head during all the resets, or perhaps I bumped my table so this is not sure. The bump seems more likely. Adobe Flash also probably caused a virus to penetrate IE8 which also caused damage. Creative Labs also caused file system damage. Fortunately Microsoft's Windows Seven chkdsk was able to fix the file system. (Microsoft Windows XP's chkdsk was not able to fix it). Anyway then it happened: As I was adding something to the boot manager, I resetted my system and boom dead.... nothing happened ?!? I was like: "huh ?!?" Maybe the cpu is hanging ?!? So I resetted it a couple of times but nothing... no signal on monitor, no harddisks spinning up. Perhaps the cpu cracked because the cpu fan sometimes wouldn't spin up but I learned later that ultimately it will spin up. So my conclusion for now is: It's not save the pull out and plug in cables into the creative labs soundblaster x-fi elite pro while power is on. However powering down and starting up seems a bit much for being able to figure out how to attach cables and test surround sound. This soundblaster also caused too much heat in the past because it was in front of nvidia cards. All in all this soundblaster and surround sound has giving me (and my neighbours/neighbourhood lol) lot's of pleasure but also lot's of damage. I just got the drivers working nicely in windows 7... to bad it had to die like that just now.... I spent about two to three days just getting a basic windows 7 installation working. Crazy how much time it costs to re-install a system. Unfortunately an update from XP to Windows 7 is probably not a good idea because of software rott because of memory chip bit errors and virusses and such. However I still think a solution could be found if the way software is installed is changed somehow... for example scripts which install registry keys into the registery even on new systems. Though this remains a "future dream". For now I was placing my hopes on VHD's however these have a limited sustainability of only 2 TB. So it's a short term solution at best... perhaps VHDM or something like that might replace it in future. I also considered vmware or virtualpc, the first requires special vm hardware for 64 bit emulation, and the second does not support 64 bit operating systems. Thus booting into a 64 bit VHD seemed the only way for now. Unfortunately I will not get it to see in action for a while... how long I don't know... Perhaps I will buy a new motherboard... but what's the use if Creative Labs X-Fi soundblaster will kill it again ?!? I could be very carefully with the cables but when I get tired or when I forgot the same will happen. I am a bit sloppy and lazy with these kinds of things. I want a audio-system which is hot-swappable, and not requiring a power down. Am I crazy/retarded for wanting something like that ? I think not. Some harddisks and usb devices seem hot-swappable... why not a soundblaster ?!?! Apperently this discrepentancy has cost me darely, as well has creative labs... that creative labs has bad drives and bad electronics is known by now... but the costs far extend beyond their own hardware. So far the costs have been: 1. Extra receiver 700 euro. 2. Dead gigaworks subwoofer 200 ? 3. Additional cables required for receiver 30 ? 4. First dead motherboard because of overheat 100 ? 5. New case because of over heat 200 ? 6. Second dead motherboard because of overheat 100 ? 7. Third motherboard because of electrical damage 100 ? 8. New memory chips, free from corsair, only postage stamp 2 bucks or so. 9. Perhaps damage harddisk as well: 200 Total damage: 1600 euro's. This high figure has convinced me why Microsoft has not added Creative Labs X-Fi drivers to their windows 7 operating system. Microsoft knows that Creative Labs X-Fi soundblasters are crap and doesn't want them to be part of the OS. And ofcourse lot's time wasted with driver installations especially on XP. But money is main concern for now. However fully blaiming it on creative labs is not fair, yes they have made some mistakes and probably have a bad back side of the soundblaster which should have been protected from electrical currents but others are to blame as well, to much heat, to much dust. The sad thing is that their soundblasters do give great sound and do lighten up the load on the cpu somewhat... I do wish to have beautifull sound... I very much doubt that onboard audio can replace it. Though perhaps I will have to be content with slightly less sound. At least today I played all my favorite songs (check out: www.amigaremix.com for some cool remixes) so I am good for a while. Fortunately for me I backed-up all my critical files to my old computer which never had any of these problems... so I am very glad and very cratefull to myself that I kept all these old computers... I kinda new it would go down like these... new hardware getting bad and worse by the year. Sales figures lot's time I heard are down for PC's... then conflicting reports that it's picking up again... but I doubt it. I am starting to wonder if I should buy integrated devices instead like: iPad's, iPhones, andraoids, tablets. At least these have everything integrated and might be well tested, and hopefully no heat surprises or eletrical surprises, however their is some surprises like heat-shutdowns in the sun, and antenna gate, and cracked screens, and privacy issue's, and evil apple dictators, plus unhealthy plastics and what not. All I can do is hope that somebody takes this posting about "electrical flaws" on the back side of the creative labs soundblaster seriously and comes up with a fix for future soundcards... Perhaps the sound cards from asus or others already have a fix for it ? I'm really bummed that my system is now dead again... it's probably not much of a big deal to fix it, but only if I can find a socket 939 motherboard. The point is not money costs, but more or less time costs: More down time. I'll be spending months before I have windows 7 the way I had windows xp. Then one little virus comes along and screws everything up again. Backups not really an option, they don't work 50% of the time and contain to old data or whatever... cloud computing is stupid because of hackers dos attacks and loss of control. I wanted to run Internet Explorer in a virtual machine... so far that's not really happening unless using a 32 bit operating system in a virtual machine. The main point of this posting is that computer industry has to start taking threats and solutions more seriously: PC industry is: 1. Under attack from virusses/trojan's/hackers causing major damage and time loss all over the place. Virus scanners are not a solution, they cause more damage then they solve. 2. Flash/IE has too many holes and is causing too many attacks to be successfull. 3. Changing to a new version of windows is too much of a productivity loss. Mostly because of incompatible applications, incompatible drivers, time lost transferring files, transferring 1 TB of data can take one to two to three days depending on if something goes wrongs or needs to change... harddisks pretty slow for terrabyte computing. 4. Backing up 1 TB can take days as well, bandwidth of harddisks too low. (Ofcourse backups need to be tested otherwise you won't be sure if they work) (disk2vhd doesn't finish but apperently good enough ?) 5. Then there is the bad hardware situation with overheat, and electrical problems... I am not an electrical engineer... please make hardware in such a way that I cannot damage it with currents ?!? Also software problems: 1. So many new technologies, new languages, needs new compilers, new ide's, needs lot's of time to learn all this new stuff... it's like functionality overload. And non of this seems backwards or future compatible. 2. However backwards compatibility might constraint innovation. Now there are iphones and ipad's, mostly integrated systems with only a few of not one serious development platform, most apps not very serious and not ment for heavy duty of heavy work... this remains mostly area of workstation so it seems... so not really comparable to workstation... but give it a few years and perhaps these devices being attach to monitors and keyboards and then suddenly can do more work. I have seen so many problems lately that I am starting to wonder if I should give apple technology a try. I doubt I would like it... but at least then I have some modern systems working... my system is now dead again for the so many'thest time... I am not liking it ofcourse. Though my system can do things which those little integrated things can only dream of ofcourse so not really good comparision My main concern is towards the futu 1. I want my computers to survive as backup computers to the future and currently that is not happening. I was hoping all problems solved with my DreamPC for 2006 but the opposite has happened. I even had nightmares about melting chips and what not. So I felt this was coming I was afraid of it for many months now... the inevidetable has happened it's dead again. 2. Now my worry is starting to shift towards finding a motherboard replacement. If I cannot find a motherboard replacement then I am going to declare my DreamPC dead and for me this is giving to have far reaching consequences and decisions: 1. First of all no more expensive gaming rigs and no more high end hardware, instead cheap hardware build by others, hopefully big companies which test their designs for heat and eletrical problems so I don't have too. 2. Perhaps no more pc's all together if even they cannot deliver on stable PC's. 3. No more flash, no more IE... I guess steve jobs was correct to ban flash from their hardware... I have no proof that flash was cause of infection but I have my suspicions 4. Could also be a general IE hole, therefore no more IE on main hardware, intead IE has to be virtualize and isolated... I am pretty fed up with web anyway... it's becoming more of a ad-infected-thing. Though there is still usefull information on it. For now I have two courses of action: 1. First make sure motherboard is really dead, then find a replacement motherboard. And then I will continue this endurance because I don't want to give up on my other expensive hardware components. or 2. Re-think hard and find a nice pre-build PC to replace my high-end problem infected PC (This will take huge time because there is probably lot's of bull**** systems out there and a few which might be nice... though big company computers have issues to so that's probably a pipe-dream... compared to them my dreampc might not even have done that bad... who knows what their track record is... check your neighbours how often they dump pc's ! - I think this is probably main reason to switch to something else just to see if it's better... could explain why apple is gaining some market share... people switching out of pure desperation.) Bye, Skybuck. |
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Skybuck's Dream PC dead again for the (4th?) zillion-th time ?!? (Electrical fault with X-Fi Elite Pro Soundblaster)
This time I am also going to call an eletrical technician to replace the
power wall sockets in my house, they only have two holes, and not a third hole for grounding. They should have a third hole for grounding I think ?!? Or maybe that would be dangerous but I don't think so... Perhaps if all stuff was grounded it might not have happened... There seemed to be some kind of load/current flowing through the audio plugs... When the audio plugs touched the backside of the plate of the soundblaster there was some kind of sound... probably leaking currents from PC case and processor and such... these should probably have been guided away via the ground wire... which didn't happen... Other explanation could be received is actually transmitting power over the cables which are supposed to be input cables only ? This time I want to be sure so just gonna call an eletrical technician soon and ask him to come have a looksy and replace wall sockets to see if that can help with grounding my computer, especially as someone else just posted a message to about popping clicks and what not. So could just have been a grounding issue... Bye, Skybuck. |
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Skybuck's Dream PC dead again for the (4th?) zillion-th time ?!? (Electrical fault with X-Fi Elite Pro Soundblaster)
Hmm,
Pretty complex this ground-wire stuff: For dutch people: http://oswaldshomepage.tripod.com/Te...id/aardepc.htm I'm a bit scared to let an electrician mess with my power sockets... what if he screws it up or introduces new problems ?!? At least according to this dutch text "grounding the pc" is safer ?!? But what if an earth-loop exists ?!? Is that still safe or the opposite ? Danger ? Doesn't seem to explain... me a bit scared of all of this ! =D Perhaps I should just let it be like I did last time and just take the damage as an unfortunate cost factor But then again... replacing motherboards forever is not an option... and I am in appartment... maybe eletricity from above neighbours would hit my ground wire and might kill me... so me not sure... Better option is probably x-fi creators to make sure their soundblasters are isolated... seems much safer to me Bye, Skybuck. |
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Skybuck's Dream PC dead again for the (4th?) zillion-th time ?!? (Electrical fault with X-Fi Elite Pro Soundblaster)
This dutch site problably explains what happened:
http://www.radionics.demon.nl/pc_aarden/aarding.html There are two options to make computing safe: 1. Ground all devices. 2. Connect all devices to one big power block, this still can lead to half of the power being applied. However my situation is as follows: 1. No grounding power sockets. 2. Multiple power blocks being used. And thus I can come to the conclusion that what is described at the link is exactly what happened: 110 volts where transferred from the Denon Receiver to the PC/X-Fi soundblaster which entered the rest of the PC/motherboard. Miracously it survived that first impact, but the second day it still died somehow... maybe capacitators that took the hit or other components died. So it seems wise for me to spent time on two solutions: 1. Call technician and ask him to have a looksy about power sockets and ask him these questions to see if he knows the dangers to be able to evaluate if he's good or bad and then ask him over and see if he can replace the power sockets with something safe... but I would expect guys like this to know this kind of stuff but still... a bit of questioning is in place before inviting over 2. If not ground wire available then instead buy a huge powerblock which might be a bit better but probably not... I guess I have no choice and power down everything before reconnecting stuff... otherwise pc will get hit with 110 volts.. ! (Never knew something like that could happen... gjez...) Ofcourse I am not 100% sure but this seems the most likely cause... it sucks but that's life ! =D At least now I have a chance to do something about it. Bye, Skybuck. |
#5
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Skybuck's Dream PC dead again for the (4th?) zillion-th time ?!? (Electrical fault with X-Fi Elite Pro Soundblaster)
Maybe I can even ask him to do some measurements or so to see if there is
leaking current on my PC and such... and receiver... and perhaps even replay what happened and see if he can make sense of it (as well) Bye, Skybuck. "Skybuck Flying" wrote in message .home.nl... This dutch site problably explains what happened: http://www.radionics.demon.nl/pc_aarden/aarding.html There are two options to make computing safe: 1. Ground all devices. 2. Connect all devices to one big power block, this still can lead to half of the power being applied. However my situation is as follows: 1. No grounding power sockets. 2. Multiple power blocks being used. And thus I can come to the conclusion that what is described at the link is exactly what happened: 110 volts where transferred from the Denon Receiver to the PC/X-Fi soundblaster which entered the rest of the PC/motherboard. Miracously it survived that first impact, but the second day it still died somehow... maybe capacitators that took the hit or other components died. So it seems wise for me to spent time on two solutions: 1. Call technician and ask him to have a looksy about power sockets and ask him these questions to see if he knows the dangers to be able to evaluate if he's good or bad and then ask him over and see if he can replace the power sockets with something safe... but I would expect guys like this to know this kind of stuff but still... a bit of questioning is in place before inviting over 2. If not ground wire available then instead buy a huge powerblock which might be a bit better but probably not... I guess I have no choice and power down everything before reconnecting stuff... otherwise pc will get hit with 110 volts.. ! (Never knew something like that could happen... gjez...) Ofcourse I am not 100% sure but this seems the most likely cause... it sucks but that's life ! =D At least now I have a chance to do something about it. Bye, Skybuck. |
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Skybuck's Dream PC dead again for the (4th?) zillion-th time ?!? (Electrical fault with X-Fi Elite Pro Soundblaster)
Hmm maybe not having ground is interesting to... like a bird on the eletric
lines... but then again there are also eletricity wires from earth coming up... so maybe grounding still saver... Not sure... but some say there are risks involved with grounding. Bye, Skybuck. |
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Skybuck's Dream PC dead again for the (4th?) zillion-th time ?!? (Electrical fault with X-Fi Elite Pro Soundblaster)
Hmmm... I'm probably coming to same conclusion as last time that I checked
into this: This time a little more or same detail... the earth wire is shared by other appartments and therefore there is a risk that if one appartment has a problem and I touch that earthwire I could get shocked... therefore seems not too save to me... so I will let things be as they are and take this damage as unfortunate. Bye, Skybuck. |
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Skybuck's Dream PC dead again for the (4th?) zillion-th time ?!? (Electrical fault with X-Fi Elite Pro Soundblaster)
There is probably one thing I can do to make it a bit safer/better:
Swap plugs to power boxes/extensions. I thought it would be better to distribute plugs to multiple boxes somewhat especially the high load ones and also some plugs are oddly shape and can only be plugged in on the sides, but the receiver has a straight plug and can be swapped with lamp I think. So current situation is as follows: wall power sockets 1 2 | | | | ___ | Monitor------|+| | Lamp---------|+| | PC-----------|+| | --- | | --- Television-----------|+| Cable modem----------|+| 7.1 Audio Receiver---|+| --- This situation should be changed too: Probably better situation: wall power sockets 1 2 | | | | ___ | Monitor------|+| | Receiver-----|+| | PC-----------|+| | --- | | --- Television-----------|+| Cable modem----------|+| Lamp-----------------|+| --- This way the potential between the PC and the receiver should be more or less the same or at worst half... so with a little bit of luck perhaps this new situation will not lead to a power potential difference and avoid damage ?!? Or maybe it will be half... not sure... but it's worth a shot/try... I just hope that all that power on one box won't be nasty ! =D Bye, Skybuck. |
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Skybuck's Dream PC dead again for the (4th?) zillion-th time ?!? (Electrical fault with X-Fi Elite Pro Soundblaster)
Hmm there is another interesting limitation to power boxes/extensions.
The receiver can take/deliver about 800 watts or so. The PC itself 600 watts. The monitor about 100 watt. Total: 1500 watt. I am not sure but this might be too much... so much power draw could put cables on fire... Some say 3600 watt is max on one power socket. There is sometimes some dust on ground, if cables catch fire, dust could catch fire and then who knows... more fire could break out... though nothing else on ground except wall paper which could also catch fire and that would be a very big problem ! So not sure how much power draw these extension things can handle... I will have to look into that some more. Another interesting discovery: 1200 watt super high end gaming rigs are a no-no just for this reason alone ! Yes... the limit of what is safe is quickly approaching. Bye, Skybuck. "Skybuck Flying" wrote in message .home.nl... There is probably one thing I can do to make it a bit safer/better: Swap plugs to power boxes/extensions. I thought it would be better to distribute plugs to multiple boxes somewhat especially the high load ones and also some plugs are oddly shape and can only be plugged in on the sides, but the receiver has a straight plug and can be swapped with lamp I think. So current situation is as follows: wall power sockets 1 2 | | | | ___ | Monitor------|+| | Lamp---------|+| | PC-----------|+| | --- | | --- Television-----------|+| Cable modem----------|+| 7.1 Audio Receiver---|+| --- This situation should be changed too: Probably better situation: wall power sockets 1 2 | | | | ___ | Monitor------|+| | Receiver-----|+| | PC-----------|+| | --- | | --- Television-----------|+| Cable modem----------|+| Lamp-----------------|+| --- This way the potential between the PC and the receiver should be more or less the same or at worst half... so with a little bit of luck perhaps this new situation will not lead to a power potential difference and avoid damage ?!? Or maybe it will be half... not sure... but it's worth a shot/try... I just hope that all that power on one box won't be nasty ! =D Bye, Skybuck. |
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Skybuck's Dream PC dead again for the (4th?) zillion-th time ?!? (Electrical fault with X-Fi Elite Pro Soundblaster)
On Fri, 6 May 2011 20:31:50 +0200, "Skybuck Flying"
wrote: Hello, My Dream PC from 2006 just died again, this time I will remain calm since I am used to it by now. You are the ravager of PCs. Get an iPad. John |
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