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Some Medion pc's are overclocked
I am writting this for the benefit of others who might go through what
I've been recently. It might save them some headache and frustration. I have recently had a client with a Medion PC bought in UK from PC World (but they have been sold through Aldi and Lidl as well) of about 2 years old. I don't have the exact model at hand, but it was the one with Ahtlon XP3400+ processor. I was called in because of stability issues - system restarting all of a sudden and generally feeling unstable. We've preventively changed the powersuppply (from 250W to 500W), but things only improved slightly. Then it occurred to me the the CPU might be overheating somehow, so the search was on for a software to read the CPU temperature. In the process, like others elsewhere in the google groups found out, it turns out that the motherboard is an MSI one, but it is not listed on MSI's website or supported in anyway, but one that is "custom" built for Medion. Not only that, but the frequencies for the processor and RAM are locked, so no tweaking is available. Through trial and error, going through every software on MSI website for probing the motherboard, it turned out that one of their older utilities (I think PC Alert 3) was able to read the temperature of the processor, speed of CPU fan, voltages etc. The processor was showing between 69 and 74 degrees celsius. We went out, bought a new fan, placed thermal grease on the processor, but only managed to gain 1 degree celsius! Than I thought maybe the processor has been somehow worn out or damaged, and it is just overheating of its own accord - so we went out and bought a Sempron (socket A) at 2800. When that was fitted, the system wouldn't boot up, no matter what. We've reset the BIOS, but the system would still refuse to boot up. No jumpers on the motherboard to tweak with. In the end, guessing that the motherboard is locked on the frequencies (maybe the serial number as well?) of the other processor, we went and bought a Asus micro-ATX socket A motherboard. When that arrived, we received the unexpected surprise - when placing the old processor (AMD Ahtlon 3400) in the new motherboard, and let it be autodetected, it actually showed up as an Athlon at 2500!!!! No wonder the processor was overheating like mad. And no wonder the Medion motherboards are locked down - it's not because they don't want you to overclock the processors - it's because they already overclocked them for you :-) Which means that the lifespan of the computer - with a poor power supply, and overclocked CPU is guaranteed to be seriously reduced. On a side note, I went to another client few days after, with a Medion PC, but with Intel processor. Same problems as the first client. We've managed to read the temperature with Motherboard Monitor - and this time it was in the 80 C! This time I told him straight away that he should gut the pc (motherboard, cpu and power supply), otherwise it will be a waste of time for both of us. This pc is just 1.5 years old. I don't know if Medion have overclocked all their different models, but it seems quite likely with their more recent ones. If BIOS is locked and CPU temperature is high, most likely it is an overclocker. I am wondering if this is not somehow against the law here in the UK. Overclocking is seriously reducing the life of a PC (it seems to about 2 years average) and they are misleading the customers into believing they are buying a system with XP3400, when it is a XP2500 really. Anyway, it explains why they were so cheap at the time - I gueass soon there will be a lot of useless machines lying around, when these computers reach about 2 years old. |
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Some Medion pc's are overclocked
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Some Medion pc's are overclocked
I would ask if they have paperwork showing they bought an XP3400 and if they
do I would advise them to sue because unless I am wrong AMD never made a Socket A XP3400. A XP3200 was the fastest socket A CPU AMD ever made so it could easily be proven that they were defrauded. Joe wrote in message ups.com... I am writting this for the benefit of others who might go through what I've been recently. It might save them some headache and frustration. I have recently had a client with a Medion PC bought in UK from PC World (but they have been sold through Aldi and Lidl as well) of about 2 years old. I don't have the exact model at hand, but it was the one with Ahtlon XP3400+ processor. I was called in because of stability issues - system restarting all of a sudden and generally feeling unstable. We've preventively changed the powersuppply (from 250W to 500W), but things only improved slightly. Then it occurred to me the the CPU might be overheating somehow, so the search was on for a software to read the CPU temperature. In the process, like others elsewhere in the google groups found out, it turns out that the motherboard is an MSI one, but it is not listed on MSI's website or supported in anyway, but one that is "custom" built for Medion. Not only that, but the frequencies for the processor and RAM are locked, so no tweaking is available. Through trial and error, going through every software on MSI website for probing the motherboard, it turned out that one of their older utilities (I think PC Alert 3) was able to read the temperature of the processor, speed of CPU fan, voltages etc. The processor was showing between 69 and 74 degrees celsius. We went out, bought a new fan, placed thermal grease on the processor, but only managed to gain 1 degree celsius! Than I thought maybe the processor has been somehow worn out or damaged, and it is just overheating of its own accord - so we went out and bought a Sempron (socket A) at 2800. When that was fitted, the system wouldn't boot up, no matter what. We've reset the BIOS, but the system would still refuse to boot up. No jumpers on the motherboard to tweak with. In the end, guessing that the motherboard is locked on the frequencies (maybe the serial number as well?) of the other processor, we went and bought a Asus micro-ATX socket A motherboard. When that arrived, we received the unexpected surprise - when placing the old processor (AMD Ahtlon 3400) in the new motherboard, and let it be autodetected, it actually showed up as an Athlon at 2500!!!! No wonder the processor was overheating like mad. And no wonder the Medion motherboards are locked down - it's not because they don't want you to overclock the processors - it's because they already overclocked them for you :-) Which means that the lifespan of the computer - with a poor power supply, and overclocked CPU is guaranteed to be seriously reduced. On a side note, I went to another client few days after, with a Medion PC, but with Intel processor. Same problems as the first client. We've managed to read the temperature with Motherboard Monitor - and this time it was in the 80 C! This time I told him straight away that he should gut the pc (motherboard, cpu and power supply), otherwise it will be a waste of time for both of us. This pc is just 1.5 years old. I don't know if Medion have overclocked all their different models, but it seems quite likely with their more recent ones. If BIOS is locked and CPU temperature is high, most likely it is an overclocker. I am wondering if this is not somehow against the law here in the UK. Overclocking is seriously reducing the life of a PC (it seems to about 2 years average) and they are misleading the customers into believing they are buying a system with XP3400, when it is a XP2500 really. Anyway, it explains why they were so cheap at the time - I gueass soon there will be a lot of useless machines lying around, when these computers reach about 2 years old. |
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Some Medion pc's are overclocked
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#5
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Some Medion pc's are overclocked
wrote in message ups.com... I am writting this for the benefit of others who might go through what I've been recently. It might save them some headache and frustration. I have recently had a client with a Medion PC bought in UK from PC World (but they have been sold through Aldi and Lidl as well) of about 2 years old. I don't have the exact model at hand, but it was the one with Ahtlon XP3400+ processor. I was called in because of stability issues - system restarting all of a sudden and generally feeling unstable. We've preventively changed the powersuppply (from 250W to 500W), but things only improved slightly. Then it occurred to me the the CPU might be overheating somehow, so the search was on for a software to read the CPU temperature. In the process, like others elsewhere in the google groups found out, it turns out that the motherboard is an MSI one, but it is not listed on MSI's website or supported in anyway, but one that is "custom" built for Medion. Not only that, but the frequencies for the processor and RAM are locked, so no tweaking is available. Through trial and error, going through every software on MSI website for probing the motherboard, it turned out that one of their older utilities (I think PC Alert 3) was able to read the temperature of the processor, speed of CPU fan, voltages etc. The processor was showing between 69 and 74 degrees celsius. We went out, bought a new fan, placed thermal grease on the processor, but only managed to gain 1 degree celsius! Than I thought maybe the processor has been somehow worn out or damaged, and it is just overheating of its own accord - so we went out and bought a Sempron (socket A) at 2800. When that was fitted, the system wouldn't boot up, no matter what. We've reset the BIOS, but the system would still refuse to boot up. No jumpers on the motherboard to tweak with. In the end, guessing that the motherboard is locked on the frequencies (maybe the serial number as well?) of the other processor, we went and bought a Asus micro-ATX socket A motherboard. When that arrived, we received the unexpected surprise - when placing the old processor (AMD Ahtlon 3400) in the new motherboard, and let it be autodetected, it actually showed up as an Athlon at 2500!!!! No wonder the processor was overheating like mad. And no wonder the Medion motherboards are locked down - it's not because they don't want you to overclock the processors - it's because they already overclocked them for you :-) Which means that the lifespan of the computer - with a poor power supply, and overclocked CPU is guaranteed to be seriously reduced. On a side note, I went to another client few days after, with a Medion PC, but with Intel processor. Same problems as the first client. We've managed to read the temperature with Motherboard Monitor - and this time it was in the 80 C! This time I told him straight away that he should gut the pc (motherboard, cpu and power supply), otherwise it will be a waste of time for both of us. This pc is just 1.5 years old. I don't know if Medion have overclocked all their different models, but it seems quite likely with their more recent ones. If BIOS is locked and CPU temperature is high, most likely it is an overclocker. I am wondering if this is not somehow against the law here in the UK. Overclocking is seriously reducing the life of a PC (it seems to about 2 years average) and they are misleading the customers into believing they are buying a system with XP3400, when it is a XP2500 really. Anyway, it explains why they were so cheap at the time - I gueass soon there will be a lot of useless machines lying around, when these computers reach about 2 years old. Medion PCs are pretty tacky looking - Ive seen them at the Aldi store in my town and I wouldnt touch one with a barge pole but are you sure of your facts? Could it be the Asus board had the FSB set at 333mhz? XP2500s are commonly overclocked to XP3200 simply by changing the FSB from 333 to 400. Enthusiasts do it all the time especially with Mobile Athlons.Conversely if you put an XP3200 in a board with the FSB set at 333 it would show up as a XP2500. The fact they used a 250watt PSU in a system with a Athlon CPU is pretty poor and shows its a poorly built system but claiming they deliberately overclocked - you have to be 100% sure. Try that CPU in the Asus board at 400FSB with a heatsink rated to XP3400 and see what temps you get. Use Motherboard Monitor. |
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Some Medion pc's are overclocked
kony,
Thank you for taking the time to read and reply to my message. I do sense a certain amount of irritation and suspicion in your reply - I am sorry if something I have written has provoked this. As I did note in the beginning, I've posted in the hope that some people might find it useful, and as a starting point for those who might encounter similar problems. I have presented all the facts that I had available and I could remember at the time trying to make the post as useful as possible. Sorry you didn't find it useful and also, sorry you understood it as an invitation to pass qualificatives as regards to my experience and knowledge. I am going to try to add few bits of information, hoping it will further add to the value of the post for those who might be interested in the future. kony wrote: On 26 Jan 2006 01:39:00 -0800, wrote: I am writting this for the benefit of others who might go through what I've been recently. It might save them some headache and frustration. Except that the odds are extremely high that you are just wrong, for whatever reason your understanding of the situation has led to a false conclusion. I can attempt to explain below but it can only be on the details you provide which themselves may also be of limited accuracy based on your understanding of the technology. The details which I've provided have indeed been limited in accuracy, and one of the causes might very well be my limited understanding of technology. But another cause for this limitation is the nature of systems built by some OEM manufacturers, such as using customised motherboards, which is NOT the case with all system manufacturers. If this is wrong or right, it is not the place to discuss it - it just precludes information gathering when troubleshooting. The rest of my post will probably seem rude, BUT it is important to note where you might be going wrong and no point beating around the bush about it. I have recently had a client with a Medion PC bought in UK from PC World (but they have been sold through Aldi and Lidl as well) of about 2 years old. I don't have the exact model at hand, but it was the one with Ahtlon XP3400+ processor. I was called in because of stability issues - system restarting all of a sudden and generally feeling unstable. We've preventively changed the powersuppply (from 250W to 500W), but things only improved slightly. What make and model power supply? If you bought a junk supply, you'll not be reasonably able to expect any better stabilty than anyone else has had with them. If it was cheap, think about why... nobody pays a lot more for no reason. Perhaps I'm drifting off on a tangent though, perhaps it is a decent supply but this information is conspicuously lacking in what is a hardware forum. Yes, you are right about the difference between cheap and expensive power supplies - but I have heard this argument on suspiciously numerous occasions to justify underpowered systems, which die out after 2 years of use. True, 450W good powersuply will most likely be better then a 500W cheap one, but powering modern computers with 250W powersupplies (be them cheap or expensive) is underpowered by most official information, including processor manufacturers like AMD. And this is done on a regular basis by most system manufacturers, large and small. Situation is even worse when the PC includes a AGP video card with a large amount of RAM, plus two optical drives. On top of all that, a minor number of systems I have opened had good brand power supply - most of them were small, and cheap. All the worse. To come back to your question, yes, the power supply we've put in was a cheap brand, as was the one we have taken out. I prefer 500W of cheap power supply, over 250W of cheap power supply. Then it occurred to me the the CPU might be overheating somehow, so the search was on for a software to read the CPU temperature. Does the bios menu have a report that may tell you? No, the bios used in the above mentioned system did not have a section on processor (or any other component) temperature. In the process, like others elsewhere in the google groups found out, it turns out that the motherboard is an MSI one, but it is not listed on MSI's website or supported in anyway, but one that is "custom" built for Medion. Sure, that's quite common with OEMs. If you want full support from a manufacturer then you have to pay full retail prices (or look for sales) on the parts. This is part of the whole reason why prebuild systems are cheaper than buying individual parts at retail- that the secondary costs are reduced. Now a word about temperature. Anyone will want to see an accurate number as a gauge, but when there is no immediate way to get this number, touch-testing a heatsink can be a good way to guesstimate relative temp. Range is the issue, if it's 75C or 85C either way it's too hot but if 38C or 45C, not so important. Just about anyone can easily feel such a difference in temp but perhaps if you hadn't touch-tested before, you'd need experience doing it. A rough guide would be that 45C does not feel "hot", you can leave your finger on the 'sink for a few seconds without discomfort. To answer your question, no, we haven't touch-tested the temperature - which, talking about accurate information, would seem rather subjective, don't you think? Not only that, but the frequencies for the processor and RAM are locked, so no tweaking is available. So? Of course they are, you paid for "X" speed so why would they increase their support costs by allowing you to risk system stability or lifespan by overclocking? Funny, same argument I've read elsewere on the Internet coming from Medion's support - and a perfectly reasonable one, if it wouldn't be for the evidence which suggests other reasons for locking the frequencies. Through trial and error, going through every software on MSI website for probing the motherboard, it turned out that one of their older utilities (I think PC Alert 3) was able to read the temperature of the processor, speed of CPU fan, voltages etc. The processor was showing between 69 and 74 degrees celsius. Maybe, or maybe not. You have to use a current utility known to support the board. Maybe it was accurate though, we can't draw a conclusion based on the info you provide, only note that it is suspect towards inaccuracy. I perfectly agree with you that the temp information in these circumstances is not infallible. But considering that a software released by the manufacturer of the motherboard has been used, I would say there are very good chances that the reading was correct. I would doubt that when customising the motherboard, they would have had any reason to move registers around, thus making the reading incorrect. And anyway, correlated with system instability and cpu overclocked, I would say that it seems more accurate than "touch testing" We went out, bought a new fan, placed thermal grease on the processor, but only managed to gain 1 degree celsius! Either: A) You bought a junk heatsink or didn't install it correctly We've purchased "Arctic Cooling Copper Silent", the one with 3 manual speeds. My research and experience indicates they are quality, well proven coolers. If you have different personal oppions, that's something else. And it was fitted correctly. B) Case ventilation is poor, OR a very dusty environment has clogged vent holes. Case ventilation is good, and all dust has been removed during a previous session. C) Temp report wasn't accurate, it wasn't at 69 or 74C. Even in a very poorly cooled case, a good heatsink will have no trouble keeping your CPU well below 74C. Unless the processor is overclocked. Than I thought maybe the processor has been somehow worn out or damaged, and it is just overheating of its own accord - so we went out and bought a Sempron (socket A) at 2800. When that was fitted, the system wouldn't boot up, no matter what. We've reset the BIOS, but the system would still refuse to boot up. No jumpers on the motherboard to tweak with. Did it claim the Sempron was supported? It is unfortunate that you're having problems but you seem to jump to quite a few conclusions that are just not productive. My omission again. An Athlon XP 2200 has been tried as well. Still no success. Besides, if I remember correctly a Sempron 2800 (socket A) is built on the same core as the Athlon XP, and so far I've had no trouble running them in all boards which support Athlon XP. In the end, guessing that the motherboard is locked on the frequencies (maybe the serial number as well?) of the other processor, No, that would be practically unheard of, odds are extremely high that is not the case. Odds are it simply doesn't support Sempron, but for all we know you might not have even disconnected AC when clearing CMOS so it wasn't even cleared. AC has been disconnected when clearing CMOS. we went and bought a Asus micro-ATX socket A motherboard. When that arrived, we received the unexpected surprise - when placing the old processor (AMD Ahtlon 3400) in the new motherboard, and let it be autodetected, it actually showed up as an Athlon at 2500!!!! No wonder the processor was overheating like mad. And no wonder the Medion motherboards are locked down - it's not because they don't want you to overclock the processors - it's because they already overclocked them for you :-) No, that is not at all likely. IF you had more experience you would have known that it is very common and typical that a motherboard will first POST with a CPU at a lower speed, including when set to autodetect. This reduces the liklihood of a no-POST situation, and all this is necessary is to enter bios, save settings, and reboot if it didn't adjust it on the next boot automatically. That is, you can check what the FSB is and compare to the spec for the installed CPU. IF bios is set to a lower FSB than CPU is spec'd for, it is obvious enough why it was reported at a lower that stock, spec'd speed. In short, no that is not evidence it was overclocked, it is evidence you don't have much experience with Athlon motherboards. You are absolutely right again in the general assumption, unfortunately that was not the case. The old processor has been run in the new motherboard for several hours, including a Windows XP home edition installation. During the process, I have entered the BIOS several times, changed different options, and exited, saving changes. Processor remained recognised as XP2500. Which means that the lifespan of the computer - with a poor power supply, and overclocked CPU is guaranteed to be seriously reduced. Not applicable. In fact, if you did actually have an Athlon 2500 that was overclocked but stable at 3400 with default voltage, no it would not even slightly reduce the lifespan of the system compared to running a genuine 3400 instead. Let me remind you that just few paragraphs above, you actually agreed with me: " So? Of course they are, you paid for "X" speed so why would they increase their support costs by allowing you to risk system stability or lifespan by overclocking?" Keep on changing your mind? Besides, don't processor manufacturer warn everybody that the warranty is void through any attempt at overclocking? I'm guessing they have a good reason for that. But, we have no evidence it was overclocked. Did you look at the CPU, the sticker, the part numbers? Either the sticker clearly states what it is, or it was forged. ALL of the forged CPUs thus far have visual differencesand can be identified. You do realize that what you're doing could loosely be considered libel? It's sometimes a bit fuzzy how that applies to usenet, but you would do well to stop jumping to conclusions without more research first. It could be that your system is poor, a lemon, who-knows-what since we dont' have all details, but from what has been supplied thus far, there is no evidence of overclocking by them, but ironically enough, it appears that you wanted to overclock it, the very thing you would complain about them doing. So you want to complain about not getting what you didn't pay for? If you would have read my post carefully, you would have seen I was called in because of stabiliy issues (with system in stock settings, as bought - which can't be changed anyway) - and not becuase we were trying to overclock it. Viceversa, we would have tried to underclock it if possible, to make it more stable, and that is why we have checked the BIOS. On a side note, I went to another client few days after, with a Medion PC, but with Intel processor. Same problems as the first client. We've managed to read the temperature with Motherboard Monitor - and this time it was in the 80 C! This time I told him straight away that he should gut the pc (motherboard, cpu and power supply), otherwise it will be a waste of time for both of us. This pc is just 1.5 years old. "Client"?? YOU ARE WORKING ON OTHER PEOPLES SYSTEMS? You should be sued if you're gutting systems, costing others money due to lack of ability to fix them properly. I'm sorry but you should not be touching any systems. Not theirs, not yours. You are at an end-user knowledge level, perhaps advanced end-user but that's about all. Nothing to comment here, obviously just personal stuff. Easy to write about others, not so easy to work for real in real life. I don't pretend to be the absolute expert, just looking for answers and hoping others might find some in the information I've posted. As I have demonstrated above, I have taken the suitable technical approach in troubleshooting the problem, and I am still open to suggestions. Simply being looked and talked down to doesn't seem like much of a productive suggestion. I don't know if Medion have overclocked all their different models, Nor do you know if they overclocked that one, apparently. ... but it seems quite likely with their more recent ones. If BIOS is locked and CPU temperature is high, most likely it is an overclocker. I am wondering if this is not somehow against the law here in the UK. No, fictional problems are not against the law. However, if the system as originally shipped, BEFORE anything, and I mean any changes were made to it, wasn't stable, then their product was defective. There is a clear difference between defect and accusations of fraud. You might've been entitled to some resolution before you went in and fiddled with it, but not now. It seems that you have missed the point. If I wanted a law suit, I would have kept things as they were for "evidence". My purpose was to help, if possible, other owners of similar systems who might be going through similar difficulties. And yes, I would love if companies who do such systems would change their ways in the future. Overclocking is seriously reducing the life of a PC (it seems to about 2 years average) Nonsense. It'd take a whole page or more to explain why you're wrong to jump to this conclusion but in short, no, the specific details are what would determine this, but the variable of only whether overclocked or not, doesn't... and in your specific case where it seems the only variable was whether it was a 2500 with a raised FSB or a 3400, not in that case it would not make even the slightest difference because technically they are the same CPU, same resultant heat and power levels. Already answered that. Maybe you would care for a bit more research about overclocking? Same "resultant heat"? Come again? and they are misleading the customers into believing they are buying a system with XP3400, when it is a XP2500 really. Anyway, it explains why they were so cheap at the time - I gueass soon there will be a lot of useless machines lying around, when these computers reach about 2 years old. You would do well to stop guessing. All is left is just to question if you don't have some personal hidden interests in the whole matter which makes you so biased and dismissive of the information I've presented. Yes, there is a chance that I am wrong, but I looked at facts, not dismissed the whole thing from the top. Maybe you prefer systems with built-in obsolescence, though? |
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Some Medion pc's are overclocked
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#8
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Some Medion pc's are overclocked
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#9
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Some Medion pc's are overclocked
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:22:08 -0600, "Joe"
wrote: Kony Arcus said as part of his post. 1) I don't have the exact model at hand, but it was the one with Ahtlon XP3400+ processor. Since OP is the one that specified it, we can presume that was the initial impression, what it was supposed to be. Even if it were XP3200 we can ignore the numerical mistake because the indication was that the initial specification of the system is what was in question. 2) ...so we went out and bought a Sempron (socket A) at 2800. When that was fitted.. If these two statements are true the computer was overclocked. No. Even if it were an XP3200 that showed as 3400 because the motherboard had some minor variation in FSB speed that put it a couple MHz beyond official values (which some boards used to do, presumably to win benchmarks done by reviewers) which bumped up the POST nomenclature to "3400", the bottom line is still that the conclusion of what speed the CPU was, was based on the variable of FSB speed. FSB speed on socket A can be changed manually and any CPU, such as a Xp2800 for example, set to a lower FSB speed when newly installed in a motherboard, will display a different processor name (lower number) in some cases. I can understand someone not knowing this, wondering about why, but not even bothering to check the label on the cpu when they HAD removed that CPU? Sorry but that's just too fishy to be believable or negligent when one then proceeds to accuse an OEM of overclocking. No "normal" effort was made to ascertain the CPU spec, no mention of the speeds. All we have is an arbitrary guess and then accusations of overclocking. AMD never made a socket A Ahtlon XP3400+ processor. What's your level of confidence? http://www.amdboard.com/barton3400.html The Ahtlon XP3200+ processor was the end of the line for socket A. See above. Arcus never responded to me so I still question where he got that this was supposed to be an Ahtlon XP3400+ processor. Please don't top -post and trim out the pages of text you leave in your replies, thank you. |
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Some Medion pc's are overclocked
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