When will I *need* a Directx 9 card?

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:03:01 +0000 (UTC)
Seahorse wrote:

Following prompt first aid from the medic "J.Clarke"
managed to scrawl the following bloodstained
message On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:49:15 -0500:



Perhaps you should try ,snipping...

Not getting out of it that easily, netcop-wannabee. You've used up
more bandwidth, just with your posts alone, than the original used.

Presumably your ever duller replies don't?

I'm not the one whining about how much bandwidth someone else is using.

---------
Rgds Mike
Remove XXX to reply

The wings of man's life are plumed with feathers of death.
- Sir Francis Drake

WWW.Dead-Fish.Com - Deep Sea Daddies...
http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollect...s=the_Seahorse



--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Lenny" wrote in message ...

A stripped GF4 MX wouldn't leave you with much. No, XGPU is basically a GF3
with a second vertex shader and some extra pixel and vertex shader
instructions, minus the AGP bridge (since it doesn't need one) plus a CPU
interface and hypertransport link, and probably some extra bits and pieces.

_Vertex_ shaders? Aren't those normally done in software?

Does XBox have pixel shaders?
Seriously, the screenshots I've seen suggest that it DOESN'T have
pixel shaders. Am I wrong? Does the water in XBox morrowind look as
good as water in PC morrowind with a GF3 or GF4Ti? Or does it look
like water in PC morrowind with a Gf2 or Gf4mx?

Darthy wrote in message . ..

Does it have pixel shaders, though?

All "true" geforce3 and 4's have pixel shaders, the only exception
being the gf4mx (which is a mix of parts from Geforce2, 3, and 4,
although the 3D core is from the geforce2).

Where did you come up with this bad and severely incorrect
information? The 4MX series are nothing more than re-named GF2 cards
with optional dual output. Nothing more. They have no features of
the GF3 or true GF4 cards.

No 3d features, but you may want to check on the memory architecture.
Also, the 4MX's 440 and 460 are at least twice the speed of any card
sold as a Geforce2 - the 4MX's are quite _fast_ they're just lacking
in _features_.

AFAIK the Xbox is based on a stripped Geforce4 MX440 core - which
should mean that it has no quincunx FSAA, no true anisotropic
filtering, no pixel shaders.

If the XBOX was based on a MX440 core, it would be a total piece of
**** video game system, It wouldn't even be half the system it is
today. The MX440 is sub-standard in performance and ability to a
GF3-Ti200 which sold for about the same price when the 440 was new

A 440MX is actually about the same speed as a Geforce3Ti200, and is
more than sufficient for a system with a 733MHz intel Celeron CPU and
intended to run at very low (TV) resolutions.

_Vertex_ shaders? Aren't those normally done in software?

Not on cards with hardware acceleration for them, which is every Nvidia chip
from GF3 and up.

Does XBox have pixel shaders?

I already answered yes to that. Of course it does, since the XGPU is based
on the GF3.

Seriously, the screenshots I've seen suggest that it DOESN'T have
pixel shaders.

And I suggest maybe you've looked at titles not using pixel shaders, or
maybe not understood what it is you're looking at. Static screenshots don't
always distinguish a pixel shader from standard multitexturing.

Does the water in XBox morrowind look as
good as water in PC morrowind with a GF3 or GF4Ti?

Yes.

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:14:40 GMT, "Lenny" wrote:


_Vertex_ shaders? Aren't those normally done in software?

Not on cards with hardware acceleration for them, which is every Nvidia chip
from GF3 and up.

Does XBox have pixel shaders?

I already answered yes to that. Of course it does, since the XGPU is based
on the GF3.

Seriously, the screenshots I've seen suggest that it DOESN'T have
pixel shaders.

And I suggest maybe you've looked at titles not using pixel shaders, or
maybe not understood what it is you're looking at. Static screenshots don't
always distinguish a pixel shader from standard multitexturing.

So anyway, I tried out this pixel shading watchmacallit for myself. I got
me a green texta (the sort you use to unlock the copy protection on
CD-ROMs) and tried shading the pixels on my brand new NINETEEN-INCH
TITANIUM MONITOR (it really gets the girls, let me tell you). But it didn't
work out that well. So now I want to know, do any of these cards feature
pixel whiteout as well, or am I screwed? ThaADVANCEnks!



--
Hong Ooi | "Does *anyone* at WOTC bother to
| _think_ when making housecat stats?"
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ | -- MSB
Sydney, Australia |

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 00:44:28 GMT, "Nitz Walsh"
wrote:


"Darthy" wrote in message
.. .

What? The Xbox's GPU is a mix between a Geforce3 and Geforce4 - some
features not even in the Geforce4. It is certainly nowhere near a GF4MX.

What are you talking about?!

"Nowhere near" a GF4MX - meaning that it's _far superior_, you incorrectly
inferred from my post that I meant it was inferior, which was the opposite.

That didn't help.

You said its a mix between GF3 & GF4, considering its actual model #
it has nothing of the GF4(proper) built in... but being that its
SPECIAL for a console, it would have a few added things there to make
JUST for the console... for example, total lack of Desktop 2D &
OpenGL functions.

Because of your sentence structure "nowhere near the GF4mx", I can
guess could go both ways. Adding "lame' or "bad" would have helped



--
Remember when real men used Real computers!?
When 512K of video RAM was a lot!

Death to Palladium & WPA!!

DUDE!! I get my CrAzY Pricing from my suppliers, Dealers, Stores,
internet... DUH!

Look at the POSTS from me and others - We are telling people to buy
the LAST of the Ti4200s because they are CHEAPER and twice the horse
power of a 5200. The prices will vary depending on the dealer!

Ti4200 = $70~125
fx5200 = $60~175

When the MX440 was NEW, it was a $125~150 video card, MX460 = $180 and
the Ti4200 was $200~250. At that time, the GF3Ti card was hitting
$125 and quicklly went down.... like the fire sales of older cards
from various stores (COmpUSA selling ATI9600Pros for $130 - when they
were $200 3 weeks ago)


On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:12:32 -0500, bob cox wrote:

The GF3 TI was always more expensive than a 440MX, dude. Where do you
get YOUR crazy info?

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:26:34 GMT, Darthy
wrote:

On 27 Nov 2003 02:19:54 -0800,
(Mean_Chlorine) wrote:

"Nitz Walsh" wrote in message . rogers.com...

Not a lot - Halo isn't a game with particularly impressive graphics to
begin with, not least because it was designed to run on a GF4MX core
machine (XBox).


--
Remember when real men used Real computers!?
When 512K of video RAM was a lot!

Death to Palladium & WPA!!

So anyway, I tried out this pixel shading watchmacallit for myself. I got
me a green texta (the sort you use to unlock the copy protection on
CD-ROMs) and tried shading the pixels on my brand new NINETEEN-INCH
TITANIUM MONITOR (it really gets the girls, let me tell you). But it
didn't
work out that well. So now I want to know, do any of these cards feature
pixel whiteout as well, or am I screwed? ThaADVANCEnks!

Don't quit your day job Hong.

Your standup routine is in need of some serious polishing...

You said its a mix between GF3 & GF4, considering its actual model #
it has nothing of the GF4(proper) built in...

The chip's model # is NV2A, which doesn't say anything about its
capabilities. It's just a code name really, not meant to be indicative of
its functionality.

but being that its
SPECIAL for a console, it would have a few added things there to make
JUST for the console... for example, total lack of Desktop 2D &
OpenGL functions.

There are no specific OpenGL functions in any 3D accelerator, just as there
are no "linux" or "windows" instructions in a x86 CPU. I don't know for sure
about the 2D engine, but I would think that is still present as a blitter
always comes in handy for building menus ad such. Besides, it is a small
minority of the silicon die anyway.

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 13:37:38 GMT, "Lenny" wrote:


So anyway, I tried out this pixel shading watchmacallit for myself. I got
me a green texta (the sort you use to unlock the copy protection on
CD-ROMs) and tried shading the pixels on my brand new NINETEEN-INCH
TITANIUM MONITOR (it really gets the girls, let me tell you). But it
didn't
work out that well. So now I want to know, do any of these cards feature
pixel whiteout as well, or am I screwed? ThaADVANCEnks!

Don't quit your day job Hong.

Your standup routine is in need of some serious polishing...


I polish my standup routine every day, if you know what I mean, and I think
you do.


--
Hong Ooi | "Does *anyone* at WOTC bother to
| _think_ when making housecat stats?"
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ | -- MSB
Sydney, Australia |