When will I *need* a Directx 9 card?

"Nitz Walsh" wrote in message . rogers.com...

Not a lot - Halo isn't a game with particularly impressive graphics to
begin with, not least because it was designed to run on a GF4MX core
machine (XBox).

What? The Xbox's GPU is a mix between a Geforce3 and Geforce4 - some
features not even in the Geforce4. It is certainly nowhere near a GF4MX.

Does it have pixel shaders, though?

All "true" geforce3 and 4's have pixel shaders, the only exception
being the gf4mx (which is a mix of parts from Geforce2, 3, and 4,
although the 3D core is from the geforce2).

AFAIK the Xbox is based on a stripped Geforce4 MX440 core - which
should mean that it has no quincunx FSAA, no true anisotropic
filtering, no pixel shaders.

So - does the water in Morrowind have realistic-looking reflections?

"Geronimo_work" wrote in message ...
Dark Avenger wrote:
"Geronimo" wrote in message
...
Dark Avenger wrote:
"Geronimo_work" wrote in
message ...
Max Longman wrote:
"John" wrote in message
om...
Anybody know when you'll absolutely need a Directx 9 card to have
any fun with games? It seems that games like Halo and Max Payne 2
use Directx 9 features sparingly, and therefore, it's no big deal
if I play them on my Directx 8.1 card (which is a GeForce 4 Ti
4200).

Are we talking 3-4 months maybe?

I'm just trying to get a handle on when to spend the bucks for an
upgrade.

That's easy, when your games are too slow to play.

what about 9500 (saphire) moded to 9700. i'm planning to buy this
card this week. is it going to be fast enough for some time, or HL2
and DoomIII will require a faster one. is it a good card for 165$.
thanks.


The 9500 is very fast... the non pro has only 4 pipelines ( what a
shame ) but after a SUCCESFULL mod you should have 8 pipelines
working, change of succesfull mod. 50%

If you are smart, you buy directly an 9700 Pro, no problems..no
pain!

the card i'm planning to buy is 100% working as 9700 because the guy
tryed and told me that it works.

Well if the card is pre-modded and it works, it's definitly a nice
thing! And the probability that he tries to sell you a card with
"artifacts" is rather low nowadays as the 9700 Pro is still superfast
yet... newer cards are out. Same way I got my 9500 Pro, from a gamer
wich needed a new card ( he took the 9800 Pro ).

Cheap, efficient and the card works perfect... ( and overclocks with
ease to 9700 Pro speeds )

unfortenetly the guy probbably lied to me because i tryed omega drivers and
some others and emedietly after i enter the windows i hawe a green chess
board (on some parts of the desktop and fonts). i tryed calling him and he
told me that he tryed omega drivers and they worked ok. eny thoughts. isn't
there some tricks what to do because i heard that some people got rid of
artifacts by disabling hyper z or something like that if i remember
correctly. what exacly is hyper-z and is it important for performane or only
image quality. thanks.

artifacts and checkers come from overheated memory, install more
cooling! Or from broken pipelines ( that is why 8 are on the card and
only 4 active ), in case 9500 chips showed broken pipelines they just
kept the 4 best ones and made the 9500 chip into a Non Pro.

There is NO garantuee that a mod runs perfect..... nor is there a
garantue that overclocking a 9500 Pro leads to a stable 9700 Pro.

Overclocking and modding are both things that MIGHT work but doesn't
has to work!

HyperZ III is a technology that uses "smarter" ways of handling
graphic memory operations to allow as much as possible data to flow
between the graphic memory/gpu/agp connection.

It's like winzipping things first before sending it away. It mainly
compresses textures and since textures are a heavy part of the graphic
workload thus allow the card to do just that bit more.

Dark Avenger wrote:
"Geronimo_work" wrote in
message ...
Dark Avenger wrote:
"Geronimo" wrote in
message ...
Dark Avenger wrote:
"Geronimo_work" wrote
in message ...
Max Longman wrote:
"John" wrote in message
om...
Anybody know when you'll absolutely need a Directx 9 card to
have any fun with games? It seems that games like Halo and Max
Payne 2 use Directx 9 features sparingly, and therefore, it's
no big deal if I play them on my Directx 8.1 card (which is a
GeForce 4 Ti 4200).

Are we talking 3-4 months maybe?

I'm just trying to get a handle on when to spend the bucks for
an upgrade.

That's easy, when your games are too slow to play.

what about 9500 (saphire) moded to 9700. i'm planning to buy this
card this week. is it going to be fast enough for some time, or
HL2 and DoomIII will require a faster one. is it a good card for
165$. thanks.


The 9500 is very fast... the non pro has only 4 pipelines ( what a
shame ) but after a SUCCESFULL mod you should have 8 pipelines
working, change of succesfull mod. 50%

If you are smart, you buy directly an 9700 Pro, no problems..no
pain!

the card i'm planning to buy is 100% working as 9700 because the
guy tryed and told me that it works.

Well if the card is pre-modded and it works, it's definitly a nice
thing! And the probability that he tries to sell you a card with
"artifacts" is rather low nowadays as the 9700 Pro is still
superfast yet... newer cards are out. Same way I got my 9500 Pro,
from a gamer wich needed a new card ( he took the 9800 Pro ).

Cheap, efficient and the card works perfect... ( and overclocks with
ease to 9700 Pro speeds )

unfortenetly the guy probbably lied to me because i tryed omega
drivers and some others and emedietly after i enter the windows i
hawe a green chess board (on some parts of the desktop and fonts). i
tryed calling him and he told me that he tryed omega drivers and
they worked ok. eny thoughts. isn't there some tricks what to do
because i heard that some people got rid of artifacts by disabling
hyper z or something like that if i remember correctly. what exacly
is hyper-z and is it important for performane or only image quality.
thanks.

artifacts and checkers come from overheated memory, install more
cooling! Or from broken pipelines ( that is why 8 are on the card and
only 4 active ), in case 9500 chips showed broken pipelines they just
kept the 4 best ones and made the 9500 chip into a Non Pro.

i'll try to put some mem coolers but i disn't overlock only moded so i don't
think it's that


There is NO garantuee that a mod runs perfect..... nor is there a
garantue that overclocking a 9500 Pro leads to a stable 9700 Pro.

I agree. i'm just trying to find some way if possible to get rid of
artifacts because i heard that some people did it


Overclocking and modding are both things that MIGHT work but doesn't
has to work!

i agree again


HyperZ III is a technology that uses "smarter" ways of handling
graphic memory operations to allow as much as possible data to flow
between the graphic memory/gpu/agp connection.

It's like winzipping things first before sending it away. It mainly
compresses textures and since textures are a heavy part of the graphic
workload thus allow the card to do just that bit more.

thanks for the info.

On 27 Nov 2003 02:19:54 -0800,
(Mean_Chlorine) wrote:

"Nitz Walsh" wrote in message . rogers.com...

Not a lot - Halo isn't a game with particularly impressive graphics to
begin with, not least because it was designed to run on a GF4MX core
machine (XBox).

What? The Xbox's GPU is a mix between a Geforce3 and Geforce4 - some
features not even in the Geforce4. It is certainly nowhere near a GF4MX.

Does it have pixel shaders, though?

All "true" geforce3 and 4's have pixel shaders, the only exception
being the gf4mx (which is a mix of parts from Geforce2, 3, and 4,
although the 3D core is from the geforce2).

Where did you come up with this bad and severely incorrect
information? The 4MX series are nothing more than re-named GF2 cards
with optional dual output. Nothing more. They have no features of
the GF3 or true GF4 cards.

AFAIK the Xbox is based on a stripped Geforce4 MX440 core - which
should mean that it has no quincunx FSAA, no true anisotropic
filtering, no pixel shaders.

If the XBOX was based on a MX440 core, it would be a total piece of
**** video game system, It wouldn't even be half the system it is
today. The MX440 is sub-standard in performance and ability to a
GF3-Ti200 which sold for about the same price when the 440 was new

(much like the 5200 is usually more expensive than the faster 4200)

Even the stupid 460MX which was slightly faster in some games over the
GF3-Ti200 with brute force of a high clock rate - it was still a DX7
card and cost almost as much as the Ti4200 - talk about SUCKERS!

PS: A "Stripped" 440mx = 420mx which is on performance with the
GF2-mx400 - but a hair faster.



--
Remember when real men used Real computers!?
When 512K of video RAM was a lot!

Death to Palladium & WPA!!

As I recall, the Xbox video system was based on a variant of the GF3 with
some optimizations, which later found their way into the GF4 line of cards,
ti, not MX, which as you stated are just GF2 cards with enhanced memory
handling.

JK

"Darthy" wrote in message
...
On 27 Nov 2003 02:19:54 -0800,
(Mean_Chlorine) wrote:

"Nitz Walsh" wrote in message
. rogers.com...

Not a lot - Halo isn't a game with particularly impressive graphics
to
begin with, not least because it was designed to run on a GF4MX core
machine (XBox).

What? The Xbox's GPU is a mix between a Geforce3 and Geforce4 - some
features not even in the Geforce4. It is certainly nowhere near a
GF4MX.

Does it have pixel shaders, though?

All "true" geforce3 and 4's have pixel shaders, the only exception
being the gf4mx (which is a mix of parts from Geforce2, 3, and 4,
although the 3D core is from the geforce2).

Where did you come up with this bad and severely incorrect
information? The 4MX series are nothing more than re-named GF2 cards
with optional dual output. Nothing more. They have no features of
the GF3 or true GF4 cards.

AFAIK the Xbox is based on a stripped Geforce4 MX440 core - which
should mean that it has no quincunx FSAA, no true anisotropic
filtering, no pixel shaders.

If the XBOX was based on a MX440 core, it would be a total piece of
**** video game system, It wouldn't even be half the system it is
today. The MX440 is sub-standard in performance and ability to a
GF3-Ti200 which sold for about the same price when the 440 was new

(much like the 5200 is usually more expensive than the faster 4200)

Even the stupid 460MX which was slightly faster in some games over the
GF3-Ti200 with brute force of a high clock rate - it was still a DX7
card and cost almost as much as the Ti4200 - talk about SUCKERS!

PS: A "Stripped" 440mx = 420mx which is on performance with the
GF2-mx400 - but a hair faster.



--
Remember when real men used Real computers!?
When 512K of video RAM was a lot!

Death to Palladium & WPA!!

"Darthy" wrote in message
...

What? The Xbox's GPU is a mix between a Geforce3 and Geforce4 - some
features not even in the Geforce4. It is certainly nowhere near a GF4MX.

What are you talking about?!

"Nowhere near" a GF4MX - meaning that it's _far superior_, you incorrectly
inferred from my post that I meant it was inferior, which was the opposite.

The GF3 TI was always more expensive than a 440MX, dude. Where do you
get YOUR crazy info?

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:26:34 GMT, Darthy
wrote:

On 27 Nov 2003 02:19:54 -0800,
(Mean_Chlorine) wrote:

"Nitz Walsh" wrote in message . rogers.com...

Not a lot - Halo isn't a game with particularly impressive graphics to
begin with, not least because it was designed to run on a GF4MX core
machine (XBox).

What? The Xbox's GPU is a mix between a Geforce3 and Geforce4 - some
features not even in the Geforce4. It is certainly nowhere near a GF4MX.

Does it have pixel shaders, though?

All "true" geforce3 and 4's have pixel shaders, the only exception
being the gf4mx (which is a mix of parts from Geforce2, 3, and 4,
although the 3D core is from the geforce2).

Where did you come up with this bad and severely incorrect
information? The 4MX series are nothing more than re-named GF2 cards
with optional dual output. Nothing more. They have no features of
the GF3 or true GF4 cards.

AFAIK the Xbox is based on a stripped Geforce4 MX440 core - which
should mean that it has no quincunx FSAA, no true anisotropic
filtering, no pixel shaders.

If the XBOX was based on a MX440 core, it would be a total piece of
**** video game system, It wouldn't even be half the system it is
today. The MX440 is sub-standard in performance and ability to a
GF3-Ti200 which sold for about the same price when the 440 was new

(much like the 5200 is usually more expensive than the faster 4200)

Even the stupid 460MX which was slightly faster in some games over the
GF3-Ti200 with brute force of a high clock rate - it was still a DX7
card and cost almost as much as the Ti4200 - talk about SUCKERS!

PS: A "Stripped" 440mx = 420mx which is on performance with the
GF2-mx400 - but a hair faster.

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:02:01 +0000 (UTC)
Seahorse wrote:

Following prompt first aid from the medic "J.Clarke"
managed to scrawl the following bloodstained
message On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:52:16 -0500:


How did you get so old and learn so little?

Like Oscar Wilde said " I am not young enough to know everything"

Pity you didn't learn _anything_.

Oh the wit. No doubt you are an expert on IQs too...

Well, you obviously didn't learn anything about IQs either, since one's
IQ has little relationship to what one has learned.

---------
Rgds Mike
Remove XXX to reply

The wings of man's life are plumed with feathers of death.
- Sir Francis Drake

WWW.Dead-Fish.Com - Deep Sea Daddies...
http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollect...s=the_Seahorse



--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:07:40 +0000 (UTC)
Seahorse wrote:

Following prompt first aid from the medic "J.Clarke"
managed to scrawl the following bloodstained
message On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:25:23 -0500:

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:20:37 +0000 (UTC)
Seahorse wrote:

Following prompt first aid from the medic "Nitz Walsh"
managed to scrawl the following bloodstained
message On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:15:06 GMT:


"John Hall" wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
I
know, cause I have an ATI 9800 pro and Call of Duty looks great
and runs like butter. Gaming skills, well, that's another issue.

Call of Duty does not utilize any DX9 shader effects. It runs
like butter on a wide variety of setups, simply because the
graphics engine is well-designed.

1. Don't cross post.

Still trying to be a netcop?

And you are not? Pot calling kettle...

Please remind me when I told you what you what you should or should not
post.

---------
Rgds Mike
Remove XXX to reply

The wings of man's life are plumed with feathers of death.
- Sir Francis Drake

WWW.Dead-Fish.Com - Deep Sea Daddies...
http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollect...s=the_Seahorse



--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:06:04 +0000 (UTC)
Seahorse wrote:

Following prompt first aid from the medic "J.Clarke"
managed to scrawl the following bloodstained
message On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:27:18 -0500:



I and many other,

How many others?

Try reading the thread.

What does "the thread" have to do with anything? It is hardly either
a random or a representative sample of the participants in USENET.

Presumably you are superior to the rest of us. I bow down to your
infinitely accurate opinion.

Can't be that old then if you can still bow.

but not all users consider it bad practice as best
and ignorant at worst.

Ignorant users think that.

If the cap fits boy...

Who you callin' BOY, Honkey?

Your juvenile attitude warrants it. As I said, if the cap fits...

Your ignorance knows no bounds. You don't even know what I said, do
you?

---------
Rgds Mike
Remove XXX to reply

The wings of man's life are plumed with feathers of death.
- Sir Francis Drake

WWW.Dead-Fish.Com - Deep Sea Daddies...
http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollect...s=the_Seahorse


--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)