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#1
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Spike filter for Soundcard>home stereo hookup?
I need some kind of filter... something to go between my soundcard and
stereo receiver to prevent spikes. Not sure if such a thing exists, but here's my story and hope someone can help: My soundcard is connected directly to my receiver's VCR input (I use it as an AUX) via RCA cables. The problem is: the sound will sometimes mute (and playback will stop), when the stereo's switches are used. The only fix is a reboot. If the stereo is on before powering up the PC, the sound might not work at all. Or, if I listen to music and change something on the stereo (such as check the radio for a sec), same problem could occur. Other fuctions of the PC would still work, but no sound until reboot! The problem sometimes depends on the weather, too-- the more hot/humid it is, the worse it gets. And I've found that cleaning with anti-static spray (i.e. the Kensington brand) helps, but I still worry about any spikes from my stereo to the PC. Since I'll be getting a new computer soon, I would like to get this ironed out beforehand, so as not to damage my brand new machine! The PC and stereo are connected to two identical (cheap) Belkin surge protectors. Both are plugged in to the same double outlet. Also, the hardware is in a room with carpeting. Does anyone know of some device that will work? Or any ideas for this situation please? I'd really like to get this done before getting my dream machine. Thank you Lee Brooklyn NY |
#2
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Not sure if it's gonna help, but try a Radio Shack ground isolator.
-bobb |
#3
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Why (just wondering) do you think its a voltage spike or ground spike
problem? Is the stereo amp grounded? At least the receptacle you've plugged the amp into grounded? Correctly? You computer grounded? If you asked me, personally, I'd say the RCA cable you were using is junk. For a small amount of $$ you can pick up a GFI (ground fault interrupter) checker, which when plugged into a receptacle will tell you if the receptacle is grounded properly, and polarized properly. I'm not understanding why if you change the stereo why the computer would be affected. -- Zypher "bobb" wrote in message ... Not sure if it's gonna help, but try a Radio Shack ground isolator. -bobb |
#4
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Although I haven't tested them, I am confident the outlets are grounded.
I'm in an apt building, and the wiring was upgraded to 220 about 15 yrs ago. (That was before I moved in though.) All stereo and PC components are plugged into 2 Belkin surge protectors. My Kenwood receiver (where the cable is connected) is around 15 yrs old, and have a few other old components hooked up as well. Some have polorized plugs, some not. (The kenwood has.) But everything goes directly into the surge protector. Components are in stackable oak containers made for stereo equipment. Bottom container rests on carpet. PC is on top of metal desk, with the main box resting on anti-static bags. Desk is on same carpet. I have a feeling it's something to do with static electricity. When I give all components (stereo and computer) a Kensington anti-static cleaning, it gets much much better. I figure a filter between stereo and PC would isolate them from eachother and prevent any sudden voltage changes to leak through. Maybe what I'm looking for is an isolation transformer type device, but on a much smaller/simpler scale. It's strange about the weather... when the AC is powered up, problem isn't that bad. But when room is warm (i.e. 80 deg) and humid, it's almost impossible to play music! You're right about the RCA cables.. they are cheap generic junk! But they're only 2 or 3 feet long. Would higher quality cables be better, even for short distances? And if so, what cables are both good and... cheap:-) I'm getting a new mobo in a couple months, and dread the idea of damaging it!!! Thanks Lee "Zypher" wrote in thlink.net: Why (just wondering) do you think its a voltage spike or ground spike problem? Is the stereo amp grounded? At least the receptacle you've plugged the amp into grounded? Correctly? You computer grounded? If you asked me, personally, I'd say the RCA cable you were using is junk. For a small amount of $$ you can pick up a GFI (ground fault interrupter) checker, which when plugged into a receptacle will tell you if the receptacle is grounded properly, and polarized properly. I'm not understanding why if you change the stereo why the computer would be affected. |
#5
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Lee wrote in message ws.com...
My soundcard is connected directly to my receiver's VCR input (I use it as an AUX) via RCA cables. The problem is: the sound will sometimes mute (and playback will stop), when the stereo's switches are used. The only fix is a reboot. If the stereo is on before powering up the PC, the sound might not work at all. Or, if I listen to music and change something on the stereo (such as check the radio for a sec), same problem could occur. Other fuctions of the PC would still work, but no sound until reboot! The problem sometimes depends on the weather, too-- the more hot/humid it is, the worse it gets. And I've found that cleaning with anti-static spray (i.e. the Kensington brand) helps, but I still worry about any spikes from my stereo to the The PC and stereo are connected to two identical (cheap) Belkin surge protectors. Both are plugged in to the same double outlet. Also, the hardware is in a room with carpeting. The anti-static spray doesn't really help; it's just a coincidence. The cheap RCA audio cables are fine, contrary to what Monster would like us to believe. I get all my audio and video cables from a 99-cent store and have no problems. You may want to try running a ground wire between the VCR chassis to the wall outlet ground (a 2-3 prong AC adapter can help here). But if that doesn't work, I blame the badly designed sound card for not tolerating pops properly. this happens with outputs that are directly coupled, as opposed to coupled through capacitors. The pops can be eliminated by adding coupling capacitors (try 10-50 uF, 50VDC, nonpolarized -- Radio Shack sells them for speakers) and grounding the free side through a 50,000-100,000 ohm resistor. The resistor drains off the DC that builds up when the capacitor isn't connected to anything. This is an old solution to pops that occur when stereo equipment is switched. |
#6
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The Kenwood is probably double insulated, not earthed, as is the rest of the
stereo system. On the back does it have an earth terminal near the AM input? If so make sure a short earth cable is hooked to it and the other end is connected to a copper clad iron 4+ foot stake driven into the soil. The earth cable should be as heavy as possible, even as heavy as car jumper cable. DO NOT CONNECT the antenna earth to a power socket earth. "Lee" wrote in message s.com... Although I haven't tested them, I am confident the outlets are grounded. I'm in an apt building, and the wiring was upgraded to 220 about 15 yrs ago. (That was before I moved in though.) All stereo and PC components are plugged into 2 Belkin surge protectors. My Kenwood receiver (where the cable is connected) is around 15 yrs old, and have a few other old components hooked up as well. Some have polorized plugs, some not. (The kenwood has.) But everything goes directly into the surge protector. Components are in stackable oak containers made for stereo equipment. Bottom container rests on carpet. PC is on top of metal desk, with the main box resting on anti-static bags. Desk is on same carpet. I have a feeling it's something to do with static electricity. When I give all components (stereo and computer) a Kensington anti-static cleaning, it gets much much better. I figure a filter between stereo and PC would isolate them from eachother and prevent any sudden voltage changes to leak through. Maybe what I'm looking for is an isolation transformer type device, but on a much smaller/simpler scale. It's strange about the weather... when the AC is powered up, problem isn't that bad. But when room is warm (i.e. 80 deg) and humid, it's almost impossible to play music! You're right about the RCA cables.. they are cheap generic junk! But they're only 2 or 3 feet long. Would higher quality cables be better, even for short distances? And if so, what cables are both good and... cheap:-) I'm getting a new mobo in a couple months, and dread the idea of damaging it!!! Thanks Lee "Zypher" wrote in thlink.net: Why (just wondering) do you think its a voltage spike or ground spike problem? Is the stereo amp grounded? At least the receptacle you've plugged the amp into grounded? Correctly? You computer grounded? If you asked me, personally, I'd say the RCA cable you were using is junk. For a small amount of $$ you can pick up a GFI (ground fault interrupter) checker, which when plugged into a receptacle will tell you if the receptacle is grounded properly, and polarized properly. I'm not understanding why if you change the stereo why the computer would be affected. |
#8
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Earth ground is not required to solve this noise transient
problem. Components must share a common ground. A point where all component's grounds come together. This ground need not connect to anything else. However your single point ground may be connected to outlet safety ground. To eliminate sudden voltage differences between 'floating' audio components, connect those component grounds together to a common point. Earth ground is not required and will not solve this noise problem Additionally, an earth ground rod must be 8 feet anyway. 4 feet ground rods are insufficient and violate the code. Connecting appliances to a separate earth ground rod would also violate code. Furthermore, do not connect those grounds to a cold water pipe. Connections to 'dump' electricity in water pipes are undesirable. You need a single point ground between all interconnected components. Those Belkins don't do anything for you. They do nothing until voltage exceeds 300+ volts. Their internal filters are so trivial as to almost not exist. You are suffering from low voltage noise - not differential mode surges. Solution is to discharge or short those noise voltages. Belkin does nothing nor even claims to address your solution. Also the GFCI recommendation is bogus. GFIs do not report a missing ground nor do they care if ground exists. do_not_spam_me has provided good ideas including debunking those cable myths. Static spray indicates that your body is discharging static electric currents through audio components. Discharge path is taking audio paths because a circuit to discharge your shoes through grounds was not (yet) installed. Just another reason why the single point ground with a connection to outlet safety ground is required. Static electric current travels down your arm, through single point ground and outlet ground, into carpet or tile floor, to discharge bottom of your shoe. Again no earth ground is required. Just simple grounding so that the discharge does not take a noisy path through audio cables. Lee wrote: All the stereo components have only 2 prongs, so they're probably just double-insulated. The receiver does have two ground terminals, one for the turntable, the other the AM antenna. But I cannot ground these to a 4 foot stake in the earth as I'm in an apartment building several floors up! Would a cold water pipe do??? Thanks |
#9
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Depending on how old your apartment is the water pipe could also be used for
the power main earth connection. To complicate things, some cold water pipes may only go into the soil 300mm/12 inches or so and then be joined to plastic pipe to the mains. To further complicate things, while the main electrical earth may be connected to an approved ground spike, some electric hot water heaters may be earthed to a cold water pipe instead of the ground circuit. If you can borrow a digital multimeter check the resistance between the earth socket and the cold water pipe and if the reading is less than a few ohms then I would strongly suspect the pipe was used as a ground. Of course if you can see that the earth is connected to a ground spike then the cold water pipe should be OK. Obviously it would be much better if you had access to the wiring plans. 30-40 years ago, it was quit common for a cold water pipe to be used as the earth connection but now it is illegal in most places for that practice because of ELBs. If you do have ELBs then I'm reasonably sure the cold water pipe should be OK but you should really check. You should be able to access the information for mains wiring/earth connection through the relevant state/national building standards. If you can get to the meterbox then there may even be a compliance sticker in there for the new (15yo)wiring, quoting the relevant compliance code and that would make it a lot easier to track it down. There may also be a sticker on the fuse box if you have one in the apartment and the meterbox is elsewhere. I say not to use the earth connection to ground the radio as it is illegal to do so in most places. I have a shortwave radio and have used the electrical earth as a temporary ground (for testing) but I found that introduced too much noise, especially from computers. But short wave radios are much more sensitive than the typical receiver. "Lee" wrote in message s.com... All the stereo components have only 2 prongs, so they're probably just double-insulated. The receiver does have two ground terminals, one for the turntable, the other the AM antenna. But I cannot ground these to a 4 foot stake in the earth as I'm in an apartment building several floors up! Would a cold water pipe do??? Thanks "Dave" wrote in : The Kenwood is probably double insulated, not earthed, as is the rest of the stereo system. On the back does it have an earth terminal near the AM input? If so make sure a short earth cable is hooked to it and the other end is connected to a copper clad iron 4+ foot stake driven into the soil. The earth cable should be as heavy as possible, even as heavy as car jumper cable. DO NOT CONNECT the antenna earth to a power socket earth. "Lee" wrote in message s.com... Although I haven't tested them, I am confident the outlets are grounded. I'm in an apt building, and the wiring was upgraded to 220 about 15 yrs ago. (That was before I moved in though.) All stereo and PC components are plugged into 2 Belkin surge protectors. My Kenwood receiver (where the cable is connected) is around 15 yrs old, and have a few other old components hooked up as well. Some have polorized plugs, some not. (The kenwood has.) But everything goes directly into the surge protector. Components are in stackable oak containers made for stereo equipment. Bottom container rests on carpet. PC is on top of metal desk, with the main box resting on anti-static bags. Desk is on same carpet. I have a feeling it's something to do with static electricity. When I give all components (stereo and computer) a Kensington anti-static cleaning, it gets much much better. I figure a filter between stereo and PC would isolate them from eachother and prevent any sudden voltage changes to leak through. Maybe what I'm looking for is an isolation transformer type device, but on a much smaller/simpler scale. It's strange about the weather... when the AC is powered up, problem isn't that bad. But when room is warm (i.e. 80 deg) and humid, it's almost impossible to play music! You're right about the RCA cables.. they are cheap generic junk! But they're only 2 or 3 feet long. Would higher quality cables be better, even for short distances? And if so, what cables are both good and... cheap:-) I'm getting a new mobo in a couple months, and dread the idea of damaging it!!! Thanks Lee "Zypher" wrote in thlink.net: Why (just wondering) do you think its a voltage spike or ground spike problem? Is the stereo amp grounded? At least the receptacle you've plugged the amp into grounded? Correctly? You computer grounded? If you asked me, personally, I'd say the RCA cable you were using is junk. For a small amount of $$ you can pick up a GFI (ground fault interrupter) checker, which when plugged into a receptacle will tell you if the receptacle is grounded properly, and polarized properly. I'm not understanding why if you change the stereo why the computer would be affected. |
#10
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30-40 yrs... that's just how old the building is. So the cold water pipe
might not be the safest way then. My multimeter needs fresh batteries, will check resistance when I pick them up. I think grounding the PC and stereo (and the desk as well) to a common point might be the trick. I'll experiment to see and get back later in the week. By the way, what are ELBs? Thanks to everyone for the suggestions! Lee "Dave" wrote in : Depending on how old your apartment is the water pipe could also be used for the power main earth connection. To complicate things, some cold water pipes may only go into the soil 300mm/12 inches or so and then be joined to plastic pipe to the mains. To further complicate things, while the main electrical earth may be connected to an approved ground spike, some electric hot water heaters may be earthed to a cold water pipe instead of the ground circuit. If you can borrow a digital multimeter check the resistance between the earth socket and the cold water pipe and if the reading is less than a few ohms then I would strongly suspect the pipe was used as a ground. Of course if you can see that the earth is connected to a ground spike then the cold water pipe should be OK. Obviously it would be much better if you had access to the wiring plans. 30-40 years ago, it was quit common for a cold water pipe to be used as the earth connection but now it is illegal in most places for that practice because of ELBs. If you do have ELBs then I'm reasonably sure the cold water pipe should be OK but you should really check. You should be able to access the information for mains wiring/earth connection through the relevant state/national building standards. If you can get to the meterbox then there may even be a compliance sticker in there for the new (15yo)wiring, quoting the relevant compliance code and that would make it a lot easier to track it down. There may also be a sticker on the fuse box if you have one in the apartment and the meterbox is elsewhere. I say not to use the earth connection to ground the radio as it is illegal to do so in most places. I have a shortwave radio and have used the electrical earth as a temporary ground (for testing) but I found that introduced too much noise, especially from computers. But short wave radios are much more sensitive than the typical receiver. "Lee" wrote in message s.com... All the stereo components have only 2 prongs, so they're probably just double-insulated. The receiver does have two ground terminals, one for the turntable, the other the AM antenna. But I cannot ground these to a 4 foot stake in the earth as I'm in an apartment building several floors up! Would a cold water pipe do??? Thanks "Dave" wrote in : The Kenwood is probably double insulated, not earthed, as is the rest of the stereo system. On the back does it have an earth terminal near the AM input? If so make sure a short earth cable is hooked to it and the other end is connected to a copper clad iron 4+ foot stake driven into the soil. The earth cable should be as heavy as possible, even as heavy as car jumper cable. DO NOT CONNECT the antenna earth to a power socket earth. "Lee" wrote in message s.com... Although I haven't tested them, I am confident the outlets are grounded. I'm in an apt building, and the wiring was upgraded to 220 about 15 yrs ago. (That was before I moved in though.) All stereo and PC components are plugged into 2 Belkin surge protectors. My Kenwood receiver (where the cable is connected) is around 15 yrs old, and have a few other old components hooked up as well. Some have polorized plugs, some not. (The kenwood has.) But everything goes directly into the surge protector. Components are in stackable oak containers made for stereo equipment. Bottom container rests on carpet. PC is on top of metal desk, with the main box resting on anti-static bags. Desk is on same carpet. I have a feeling it's something to do with static electricity. When I give all components (stereo and computer) a Kensington anti-static cleaning, it gets much much better. I figure a filter between stereo and PC would isolate them from eachother and prevent any sudden voltage changes to leak through. Maybe what I'm looking for is an isolation transformer type device, but on a much smaller/simpler scale. It's strange about the weather... when the AC is powered up, problem isn't that bad. But when room is warm (i.e. 80 deg) and humid, it's almost impossible to play music! You're right about the RCA cables.. they are cheap generic junk! But they're only 2 or 3 feet long. Would higher quality cables be better, even for short distances? And if so, what cables are both good and... cheap:-) I'm getting a new mobo in a couple months, and dread the idea of damaging it!!! Thanks Lee "Zypher" wrote in thlink.net: Why (just wondering) do you think its a voltage spike or ground spike problem? Is the stereo amp grounded? At least the receptacle you've plugged the amp into grounded? Correctly? You computer grounded? If you asked me, personally, I'd say the RCA cable you were using is junk. For a small amount of $$ you can pick up a GFI (ground fault interrupter) checker, which when plugged into a receptacle will tell you if the receptacle is grounded properly, and polarized properly. I'm not understanding why if you change the stereo why the computer would be affected. |
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