Id / John Carmack announces the PS3 version of RAGE will run at only20-to-30fps, breaking promise of all versions running at 60fps. Meanwhilethe Xbox 360 version still runs at 60fps

"Memnoch" wrote
Andrew wrote:
Mark Morrison wrote:

ISn't this the case on consoles ? I know I have to leave the
disk in after installing a game to my Xbox 360s hard drive.

How about the PS3 ?

It is the same with all the consoles.

Yep, Doug was scratching around for bullet points at that point I feel.

Hang on, I think his point was that there was no real need to have the disk
inserted (other than DRM) in order to play a PC game since *all* necessary
data (including video) had already been copied to the computer's HD.

Consoles on the other hand need the disk inserted mostly because of hardware
limitations - it needs to stream data off the disk during gameplay I assume
due to smaller HD's and therefore no real full instalation. But I don't own
a console anymore, so I could be wrong (it's happened once before, but that
was a long time ago).

In alt.games.video.sony-playstation3 Andrew wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:24:57 -0500, Doug Jacobs
wrote:

If the 360 and PS3 have somewhat similar video chips, why is the
performance going to be so radically different between them?

Because a GPU is not a CPU.

That's what I was asking - aren't the GPUs in the two machines pretty
similar in power and architecture?

Besides which if we were just comparing CPU to CPU, shouldn't the PS3's
Cell crush the 360's CPU?

--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.

In alt.games.video.sony-playstation3 Mark Morrison wrote:
ISn't this the case on consoles ? I know I have to leave the disk in
after installing a game to my Xbox 360s hard drive.

How about the PS3 ?

With the PS3, some games copy themselves to the hard drive, but it doesn't
matter because the PS3's drive isn't nearly as noisy the one I've had in
my desktop.

With the 360, you can copy the game to the hard drive, but you need the
disc in the drive just when you start up the game. After that, it leaves
the DVD drive alone and just uses your hard drive. Even if you don't do
this, the 360's drive is still no where near as loud as the small aircraft
engine that is the DVD drive in my desktop. And yes, I've already gone
over the PC, inserting little rubber washers and whatnot to try and reduce
the shaking and rattling the PC does when the DVD drive kicks in.

At any rate, PC games aren't that large compared to the average PC's hard
drive, so doing a full install and uncompressing everything doesn't take
up that much room. Yet why do I need the disc in the drive when I play
the game? I don't need to have my MS Office install disc in the drive
when I want to use Word or Excel (god help me if Microsoft reads this and
gets some brilliant idea...) And when I say I need to have the disc in
the drive, it's because the drive is constantly on, spinning the disc. As
if it's making sure every second I'm playing the game that I haven't
gotten rid of the disc or something. Come on now!

The first game I used a NoCD crack for was some pool simulator. The
actual game took up a whopping 24MB on my hard drive, with the CD being
filled up with various demonstration videos. I didn't care about the
videos, but having to leave the CD in the drive whenever I wanted to play
pool seemed just stupid.

--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.

In alt.games.video.sony-playstation3 MetalGuru wrote:
Yep, Doug was scratching around for bullet points at that point I feel.

Hang on, I think his point was that there was no real need to have the disk
inserted (other than DRM) in order to play a PC game since *all* necessary
data (including video) had already been copied to the computer's HD.

Yes, exactly.

Consoles on the other hand need the disk inserted mostly because of hardware
limitations - it needs to stream data off the disk during gameplay I assume
due to smaller HD's and therefore no real full instalation. But I don't own
a console anymore, so I could be wrong (it's happened once before, but that
was a long time ago).

There are 3 basic scenarios with consoles today

* All data is read from the disc - this is pretty much what you remember
from the PS1, PS2 days. In this case, the disc drive is engaged almost
constantly during game play. The PS3, 360 and Wii do this for all games
unless you install the game to the hard drive (Wii has no such option
however.)

* Partial install. The PS3 does this for some games. As it implies, some
of the data is read to the hard drive. Usually, the most commonly used
files, with maybe some space to be used for caching the current area you're
in, which gets overwritten as you move around the game. In this case, the
disc drive is engaged only when new data needs to be read, or you're playing
a cutscene or streaming music for the game.

* Full install. The 360 has an option that lets you copy the entire DVD
to your hard drive. The game still requires you to have the DVD in the
drive when you start up the game, but after it's verified the disc is
legit, it then uses the hard drive exclusively.

My problem with most PC games is that even if you do the full install option,
not only do you need to have the disc in the drive, but it's constantly
spinning. What, does the company think I'm going to start the game, and
then illegally sell to my friend 5 seconds later? Why does it need to
constantly run my DVD drive? I don't know about you, but this makes an
extremely annoying BZZZZZING sound that's much louder than any game console
I've ever owned. As I mentioned before, I did go over the case to try and
dampen the noise, but it's still quite loud - especially since the desktop
is next to my monitor which is very close to my head.

--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.

Doug Jacobs wrote:


My problem with most PC games is that even if you do the full install option,
not only do you need to have the disc in the drive, but it's constantly
spinning. What, does the company think I'm going to start the game, and
then illegally sell to my friend 5 seconds later? Why does it need to
constantly run my DVD drive? I don't know about you, but this makes an
extremely annoying BZZZZZING sound that's much louder than any game console
I've ever owned.


This is not something I have seen with any of the games I have. Do you
have an example game (hopefully something fairly popular)

....and the bzzzzing noise can be stopped by buying a decent quality
optical drive you know.... ;-)

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:41:02 -0500, Doug Jacobs
wrote:

In alt.games.video.sony-playstation3 Andrew wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:24:57 -0500, Doug Jacobs
wrote:

If the 360 and PS3 have somewhat similar video chips, why is the
performance going to be so radically different between them?

Because a GPU is not a CPU.

That's what I was asking - aren't the GPUs in the two machines pretty
similar in power and architecture?

Besides which if we were just comparing CPU to CPU, shouldn't the PS3's
Cell crush the 360's CPU?

I hate to say something so cynical, but doesn't Carmack sign deals
with and promote various hardware manufacturers?

Doug Jacobs typed:
My problem with most PC games is that even if you do the full install
option, not only do you need to have the disc in the drive, but it's
constantly spinning.

Agreed, that is frustrating. Fortunately there are two easy solutions.

* No-CD crack (not so legal)
* Disc image (legal to make backup copy)

I have all my PC games (currently have about 45 installed) setup to run
with 1-click, no-CD installs. Mostly use a disc image with Daemon Tools
for games that offer a minimum install option. Wish I could do that on
the PS3.


--
}; Matt v3.3 :{

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:41:02 -0500, Doug Jacobs
wrote:

That's what I was asking - aren't the GPUs in the two machines pretty
similar in power and architecture?

The 360 has a slightly more powerful GPU.

Besides which if we were just comparing CPU to CPU, shouldn't the PS3's
Cell crush the 360's CPU?

No, because it is a pain to program and generally the 360 is faster.
Plus the 360 has a lot more RAM.
--
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On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:58:00 -0500, Doug Jacobs
wrote:

Yet why do I need the disc in the drive when I play
the game

You don't - as soon as I install a new game, I immediately head over
to gamecopyworld and get a crack.

A pain, but it beats playing hunt the DVD.

In alt.games.video.sony-playstation3 Mark Morrison wrote:
Yet why do I need the disc in the drive when I play
the game

You don't - as soon as I install a new game, I immediately head over
to gamecopyworld and get a crack.

A pain, but it beats playing hunt the DVD.

Yes, and technically illegal. Why must legitimate customers break the law
just in order to play the game in this way? It wouldn't be so bad if the
CD was only accessed once when the game was started, and then it shut the
drive off. But no!

A few years ago, I had to use a no CD crack on a copy of Dogz5 for the
daughter of a friend of mine for crying out loud. The girl had bought the
game with her allowance, and tried playing it on her mom's laptop, only to
have the game refuse to run because it detected the laptop had a CD burner.
Well, duh! What computer nowadays CAN'T burn a CD? And this was for a 3
year old bargain-bin game! Stupid, stupid stupid!

--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.