New Motherboard memory question

I am in the process of upgrading my system to the Asus P5B deluxe and the
salesperson at first recommended the DDR 2 800 memory but afterwards said
that the DDR 2 667 will be adequate and a bit less expensive.
I am a photographer using Photoshop as well some video and the only game I
have is flight simulator. Quality-wise will it be better in the long run
paying a little more and going with the 800?
Thanks for any feedback.

"SSI" wrote in message
. ..
I am in the process of upgrading my system to the Asus P5B deluxe and the
salesperson at first recommended the DDR 2 800 memory but afterwards said
that the DDR 2 667 will be adequate and a bit less expensive.
I am a photographer using Photoshop as well some video and the only game I
have is flight simulator. Quality-wise will it be better in the long run
paying a little more and going with the 800?
Thanks for any feedback.



Gee, I hope so. I've been running this P5W DH for a week now using the
factory settings. I just updated the overclock section for DDR-800. Set
the latency settings in one section of BIOS, then went to the overclock
section and set the voltage and buss speed.

I've been running the system for about 2 hours now. Things seem to be
snapper, quicker. I'll be doing some Photoshop work later today, and
playing some games too. Then I will get a feeling of what I have gained.

William.

Later on I want to try some overclocking of the CPU. Just a little, for
fun.

Hi, my Geil PC25300 easily runs at PC6400 speeds...
ChrisC
"William" wrote in message
...

"SSI" wrote in message
. ..
I am in the process of upgrading my system to the Asus P5B deluxe and the
salesperson at first recommended the DDR 2 800 memory but afterwards said
that the DDR 2 667 will be adequate and a bit less expensive.
I am a photographer using Photoshop as well some video and the only game
I
have is flight simulator. Quality-wise will it be better in the long run
paying a little more and going with the 800?
Thanks for any feedback.



Gee, I hope so. I've been running this P5W DH for a week now using the
factory settings. I just updated the overclock section for DDR-800. Set
the latency settings in one section of BIOS, then went to the overclock
section and set the voltage and buss speed.

I've been running the system for about 2 hours now. Things seem to be
snapper, quicker. I'll be doing some Photoshop work later today, and
playing some games too. Then I will get a feeling of what I have gained.

William.

Later on I want to try some overclocking of the CPU. Just a little, for
fun.

SSI wrote:
I am in the process of upgrading my system to the Asus P5B deluxe and the
salesperson at first recommended the DDR 2 800 memory but afterwards said
that the DDR 2 667 will be adequate and a bit less expensive.
I am a photographer using Photoshop as well some video and the only game I
have is flight simulator. Quality-wise will it be better in the long run
paying a little more and going with the 800?
Thanks for any feedback.


Dear SSI,

the Nov 06 Maximum PC magazine had a benchmark comparison on
this--unfortunately, I cannot find that issue right now, and, Max PC has
not posted that info on their web site just yet.

However, hte December issue is out, so I think they will be putting that
on line pretty soon. Or, that issue should still be on a lot of
newsstands.

***

http://www.maximumpc.com/this_month/

Memory Challenge
Is low-latency memory faster than high-bandwidth memory? And which is
more important, latency or clock speed? Find out next month!

***

IIRC, DDR2 667 with low latency tested out pretty darn close to DDR2 800
with its higher latency. Also, a quick check of on-line reviews and
comparison tests shows the 667 within a few percent of 800 in most tests.

HTH,

BC

Do not use DDR2 667 ... it's worse than DDR2 533.

DDR2 533 runs the memory system synchronously with the CPU, which is of
some benefit. Both DDR2 667 and 800 require the memory to run
asynchronously. In the case of 667, it is actually slower than 533; in
the case of 800 MHz, however, while the memory operation is still
asynchronous, the additional speed of the memory more than makes up for
it. So I'd be inclined to go with the 800, other things being equal (of
course, if you override the memory's programmed parameters on the spd
chip, you can run either type of memory at 533, or in some cases you can
run them above spec).


SSI wrote:
I am in the process of upgrading my system to the Asus P5B deluxe and the
salesperson at first recommended the DDR 2 800 memory but afterwards said
that the DDR 2 667 will be adequate and a bit less expensive.
I am a photographer using Photoshop as well some video and the only game I
have is flight simulator. Quality-wise will it be better in the long run
paying a little more and going with the 800?
Thanks for any feedback.

That article slightly missed the point of his question, although it's
not entirely unrelated. Basically, they found that in their test
environment, given a choice between slower access speed but also lower
latency, or faster access speed with longer latency as well, the slower
speed, lower latency produced a faster overall result. But he's only
asking about one parameter (access speed, e.g. frequency), while latency
is an independent subject ... somewhat related but at the same time
different.


BC wrote:
SSI wrote:
I am in the process of upgrading my system to the Asus P5B deluxe and the
salesperson at first recommended the DDR 2 800 memory but afterwards said
that the DDR 2 667 will be adequate and a bit less expensive.
I am a photographer using Photoshop as well some video and the only
game I
have is flight simulator. Quality-wise will it be better in the long run
paying a little more and going with the 800?
Thanks for any feedback.


Dear SSI,

the Nov 06 Maximum PC magazine had a benchmark comparison on
this--unfortunately, I cannot find that issue right now, and, Max PC has
not posted that info on their web site just yet.

However, hte December issue is out, so I think they will be putting that
on line pretty soon. Or, that issue should still be on a lot of
newsstands.

***

http://www.maximumpc.com/this_month/

Memory Challenge
Is low-latency memory faster than high-bandwidth memory? And which is
more important, latency or clock speed? Find out next month!

***

IIRC, DDR2 667 with low latency tested out pretty darn close to DDR2 800
with its higher latency. Also, a quick check of on-line reviews and
comparison tests shows the 667 within a few percent of 800 in most tests.

HTH,

BC

Barry Watzman wrote:
Do not use DDR2 667 ... it's worse than DDR2 533.

DDR2 533 runs the memory system synchronously with the CPU, which is of
some benefit. Both DDR2 667 and 800 require the memory to run
asynchronously. In the case of 667, it is actually slower than 533; in
the case of 800 MHz, however, while the memory operation is still
asynchronous, the additional speed of the memory more than makes up for
it. So I'd be inclined to go with the 800, other things being equal (of
course, if you override the memory's programmed parameters on the spd
chip, you can run either type of memory at 533, or in some cases you can
run them above spec).


Dear Barry/SSI,

looked this up a bit, and Barry is correct that DDR2 667 is not much of
an improvement over DDR2 533:

http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=2863

The graphs show performance trends very well.

Chart also shows trends well:

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/...rformance.html

http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardwar...691_3636576__3

http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardwar...691_3636576__6

**quote**
It can be difficult (and expensive) to get the best of both worlds, but
our top performance choice would be 2GB of DDR2-800, rated at
4-4-4-12/15 memory timings.

Value

Overall DDR2 prices have been spiking recently, especially high-end
DDR2-800 and DDR-1000 memory. This makes it more difficult to make a
value judgment, as the Core 2 Duo seems to be sending DDR2 memory demand
skyward. Naturally, 2GB is more expensive, and the Ultra DDR2-800 2x1GB
kit checks in at approximately $300 and the OCZ XTC DDR2-800 2x1GB set
is priced a bit lower at around $275. Corsair XMS2 DDR2-800 2x512-MB
sits in the $180 range and Crucial Ballistix DDR2-800 2x512MB is priced
a bit higher at just over $200. Comparable 1GB and 2GB DDR2-667 kits are
very close to these prices, while DDR2-1000 comes at a noticeable
premium, making DDR2-800 the best relative value in the DDR2 market.

* Please note that these prices were taken at the time of review (Oct
06) and are not meant to reflect long-term trends.

Conclusion

The introduction of the Intel Core 2 Duo and Extreme processors, and
their 1066 MHz bus, has created a real demand spike for DDR2 memory, and
specifically DDR2-800. This has led to a greater selection of DDR2
modules, but also some unwelcome price increases as supply tries to
satisfy demand. It's still good news for hardware enthusaists, as memory
bandwidth has never been higher.

Lower latency modules like the Corsair XMS2, Crucial Ballistix and OCZ
EB DDR2-800 2x512-MB kits certainly have a place in the market, as these
provide high-end performance and quality at a very attractive price. The
Ultra DDR2-800 and OCZ XTC DDR2-800 2x1GB models are more expensive, but
by doubling the memory capacity, these provide slightly higher
performance, reduced disk access, and enhanced system longevity.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...ning/page2.asp

The good part though is that the BIOS for all of these motherboards
provide the proper memory multipliers to run the system’s DDR2 memory at
1,066MHz; options of 533MHz, 667MHz, 711MHz, 800MHz, 889MHz, and 1066
are available, and of course asynchronous operation is easy to setup and
works perfectly, so you can run the FSB and memory bus at different
speeds. Both ASUS and Gigabyte’s motherboards also have special BIOS
settings that you can enable to tweak performance even further, but
these are their own proprietary techniques to boost performance and go
outside the focus of this article, which is focused on boosting the
memory bus to improve performance.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...ning/page6.asp

Notes

In F.E.A.R. we see very slight gains when upgrading from the default
DDR2-667 to faster DDR2 modules, each speed grade bump bought us about
1% in performance on average.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...ning/page7.asp

Notes

In Quake 4 we see an improvement of 3% going from your typical stock
DDR2-667 CAS5 setup to DDR2-800 CAS5 for the Core 2 Duo, and 4% for Core
2 Extreme. Going from DDR2-667 to DDR2-1066 bought us an additional 8%
for the Extreme CPU and 6% for the Core 2 Duo. We also saw a nice
speedup when moving from CAS 5 DDR2-667 to CAS 3 memory, 3% in the case
of the Core 2 Duo while the Core 2 Extreme’s performance improved by 2%
with the use of DDR2-800.

**unquote**

Here is a test with a flight simulator:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...ning/page8.asp

Looks like a low latency DDR2667 beats the higher latency DDR2 800,
though by just a few FPS.

Pacific fighters:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...ning/page9.asp

**quote**
Tweaking Core 2 For More Performance
Conclusion

Considering that the 975X is considered to be the enthusiast chipset for
Core 2, it’s a little surprising to see that Intel neglected to provide
official support for DDR2-800 memory, while the mainstream offering
P965, has been endowed with this feature. The added 2GB/sec+ of
additional memory bandwidth will reap you some performance dividends,
but exactly how much is going to depend on the application you’re running.

We saw nice gains in our video encoding and DivX conversion tests; and
we’re only dealing with a 165MB 720p video, the time saved would be even
greater for a larger file.

In our gaming tests, the results were a little more mixed. In games like
Quake 4, Pacific Fighters, and Half-Life 2 Lost Coast we saw gains
ranging anywhere from 2-4% when going from DDR2-667 to DDR2-800, with
the cumulative effect of going from DDR2-667 to DDR2-1066 in the high
single-digits. In F.E.A.R. the DDR2-800 barely registered more than a 1%
increase over DDR2-667, while Oblivion and Lock On: Modern Air Combat
saw no performance improvement at all.

Based on the data provided in this article you can hopefully plan your
upgrade accordingly if you’re tempted to pick up a Core 2 processor when
they go on sale later this month. If you’re into video
encoding/conversion the faster memory could definitely come in handy,
especially if you’re dealing with larger files. Our tests also revealed
that lower memory timings can also reap significant performance dividends.

For gamers who are into overclocking, picking up faster memory modules
would probably be a good idea if you can afford it. While you won’t see
performance gains at 1600x1200 with the image quality settings cranked
up and the AA/AF turned on (with the exception of Pacific Fighters),
buying faster memory should come in handy when you’re overclocking.
Typically the premium memory modules scale to higher clock frequencies
than the generic modules, and with lower timings as well. In theory, as
you hit higher clock speeds with your overclock, memory bandwidth is
going to be increasingly important as well. And besides, clearly the
third-party 975X motherboards can handle the higher memory speeds (even
though technically it is considered overclocking) and there’s a wealth
of DDR2-800 and DDR2-1066 modules out there from high-end memory
manufacturers like Corsair and OCZ, and they’re selling for lower prices
everyday.

If you’re a more casual gamer and you don’t plan to overclock your
system, clearly you should stick to regular DDR2-667, as the performance
benefits we mentioned above won’t apply to you once you crank up the
graphics settings in your games, and you can save a little money in the
process that you can put towards something else.

**unquote**

P5B deluxe QVL:

http://www.asus.com.tw/999/download/...79/1179_10.pdf

Here are some modules on the Asus QVL at Newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...E16820 134125

I would recommend this set of Corsair:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/CustRa...agesize=&Page=

Note that the P5B is mentioned favorably in multiple reviews.

On QVL, but most expensive:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820134125

HTH and isn't too long winded,

BC

Barry Watzman wrote:
Do not use DDR2 667 ... it's worse than DDR2 533.

DDR2 533 runs the memory system synchronously with the CPU, which is of
some benefit. Both DDR2 667 and 800 require the memory to run
asynchronously. In the case of 667, it is actually slower than 533; in
the case of 800 MHz, however, while the memory operation is still
asynchronous, the additional speed of the memory more than makes up for
it. So I'd be inclined to go with the 800, other things being equal (of
course, if you override the memory's programmed parameters on the spd
chip, you can run either type of memory at 533, or in some cases you can
run them above spec).


SSI wrote:
I am in the process of upgrading my system to the Asus P5B deluxe and the
salesperson at first recommended the DDR 2 800 memory but afterwards said
that the DDR 2 667 will be adequate and a bit less expensive.
I am a photographer using Photoshop as well some video and the only
game I
have is flight simulator. Quality-wise will it be better in the long run
paying a little more and going with the 800?
Thanks for any feedback.



Are you then saying that given the option (and having 667 memory
myself), it is better to choose the 533 setting to operate in
synchronous mode?

TIA,

MikeC

Hi, I run 1:1, FSB at 400...
ChrisC
"MikeC" wrote in message
...
Barry Watzman wrote:
Do not use DDR2 667 ... it's worse than DDR2 533.

DDR2 533 runs the memory system synchronously with the CPU, which is of
some benefit. Both DDR2 667 and 800 require the memory to run
asynchronously. In the case of 667, it is actually slower than 533; in
the case of 800 MHz, however, while the memory operation is still
asynchronous, the additional speed of the memory more than makes up for
it. So I'd be inclined to go with the 800, other things being equal (of
course, if you override the memory's programmed parameters on the spd
chip, you can run either type of memory at 533, or in some cases you can
run them above spec).


SSI wrote:
I am in the process of upgrading my system to the Asus P5B deluxe and
the
salesperson at first recommended the DDR 2 800 memory but afterwards
said
that the DDR 2 667 will be adequate and a bit less expensive.
I am a photographer using Photoshop as well some video and the only game
I
have is flight simulator. Quality-wise will it be better in the long run
paying a little more and going with the 800?
Thanks for any feedback.



Are you then saying that given the option (and having 667 memory myself),
it is better to choose the 533 setting to operate in synchronous mode?

TIA,

MikeC