1st PC build

Vanguard wrote:
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
Vanguard wrote
wrote

Exactly why I quit using wireless mice (and keyboards). The
keyboard rarely moves anyway so what's the point of having it
wireless?

Mine moves a lot because I dont use it on a desktop.

You really think using a keyboard atop your lap is normal use
by the majority of wireless keyboard users?

You just generated 513 lines of troll food. Any time I see an
article that large I normally skip it, barring some especially
interesting author or subject. When it just feeds trolls there is
no question as to disposition.

--
"I'm the commander--see, I don't have to explain -- I don't need
to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about
being the President. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why
they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an
explanation." - George W. Bush, 2002-11-19

Rod Speed is a troll. Don't feed the troll.


Rod Speed wrote:

Vanguard wrote

Rod Speed wrote

Vanguard wrote

wrote


Exactly why I quit using wireless mice (and keyboards). The keyboard rarely
moves anyway so what's the point of having it wireless?


Mine moves a lot because I dont use it on a desktop.


You really think using a keyboard atop your lap is normal use by the majority
of wireless keyboard users?


Irrelevant to that first question of yours above.


Sometimes a wireless mouse makes good sense


Mostly, actually, you dont have the nuisance of the cable.

Only real downside is that its easier to drop a wireless mouse.


but not so much for a wireless keyboard.


Yes, its certainly less important, but when you have the wireless
system there for the mouse, you might as well use it for the
keyboard too, because the keyboard batterys last for a very
long time even if they are just plain non rechargable batterys.


One place a wireless mouse comes in handy is on shared hosts (or, at least, on
shared I/O devices to those hosts).


Yes, tho thats a less important factor here since
I use Synergy to share the mouse and keyboard
and have separate monitors on the switching that.


I use the mouse on the leftside of the keyboard although I am right-handed
because that lets me extend my arm straight forward rather than at an angle
due to lopsided keyboards (with the arrow and number pads on the right).
Other users want it on the right side of the keyboard.


I run it around on an old A4 book cover on my lap, sometime
run it around on my chest when doing something simple mouse
wise for a moment with the keyboard on my lap.


So being wireless makes it trivial to position the mouse on either side of the
keyboard for multiple users.


Yes.


However, that is not how most wireless mice are used; i.e., they have a single
user.


Yes, but the lack of a wire does make them more convenient
even for those that still use them on the desktop.


The only time wireless makes sense is if the system unit will be farther
away than the cord, but then wireless devices don't come with very long
cords, either.


Wrong again. The bluetooth devices can be used so far from
the system that you cant even read the monitor anymore.


What is the point of moving yourself far away from that large monitor


I dont do that, I use it in the same place as the smaller monitor used to be.


for which you paid extra so it is the equivalent of a much cheaper and smaller
monitor?


Dont do that either.


I don't recall ever seeing someone down the hallway waving their mouse around.


Yes, but it does blow that silly claim you made about range completely
out of the water, and fixes the multiple channel problem completely too.


I haven't seen anyone positioning the mouse and keyboard much more than 1 to 3
feet from the monitor monitor.


That aint the reason for bluetooth wireless mice and keyboards.


Yes, I know, gimmickry sells.


It aint gimmickry, there are real advantages with bluetooth
with mice and keyboards, most obviously with the much
better range so you dont ever get dropouts, and you dont
have any problem with interference from other systems either.


Bluetooth is not just used for wireless mice. It's used for networking, too.


Duh.


Just Google on the problems with RF interference when using Bluetooth.


Dont need to, I know it works fine.


That guy down the hallway waving his Bluetooth mouse around and using
binoculars to see his monitor will also have interference problems.


Nope.


Oh, of course, your response is "not in a properly configured system". You
can configure the "system" only within the limits of the settings that are
provided.


And those limits dont exist with bluetooth mice and keyboards.


You are really claiming that it is ALWAYS possible to eliminate interference
with other Bluetooth and other RF devices?


Yep. Bluetooth has been designed from scratch to
handle multiple bluetooth sessions in close proximity.


If so, time to visit the US Patent Office with that discovery.


No point, its already been invented, its called bluetooth.


I've yet to see one that notifies you BEFORE voltage gets too low to affect
behavior.


You need to get out more. The MX700 warns you so early that you can continue
to use it fine all day once it starts warning of a low battery.


During gameplay, just where are you going to see that warning icon?


It isnt an icon, the led on the top of the mouse starts blinking slowly.

Even you would notice it.


If it flashes up a warning dialog,


It doesnt if you dont want one.


it will screw up the resolution of the game, interrupt the game to pop you
back to the desktop, and upon returning
to the game you may not be able to restore a usable screen.


It doesnt if you dont want one.


Indicators on the mouse, tray icons, and warning dialogs, all to
overcome or forestall the inevitable problem of failing battery charge.


It just indicates that you need to put the mouse on the charger
when you are finished with the system that evening etc.

Many just put the mouse on the charger when they
stop using the system in the evening and so never
ever see any low battery indication what so ever.

Even you should be able to manage that.


Yes, the particular wireless mouse that the OP mentioned may have an indicator
of battery life.


No may about it, its got a 4 level battery charge indicator.


So is the user actually monitoring that indicator during gameplay or while
working to figure out just when they will have to plan for the temporary
outage so they can replace the batteries without interfering with their later
use of the or continue their work?


Nope, you can ignore it completely if you put the mouse on the
charger when you are finished with the system in the evening.
The indication is JUST a reminder that you need to put it on
the charger when you are finished with it in the evening if
you dont put it on the charger routinely every evening.


I've never seen users watching their mouse.


You dont need to. The indicator is so obvious
that even you wouldnt be able to miss it.


Instead they watch the mouse cursor on the monitor, so it will be when
they experience erratic behavior that they might then check on battery
voltage but then it's low and they have to do something about it then.


Wrong again. You get the indication of low battery LONG before you
ever get any erratic behaviour with a properly designed wireless mouse.


Something will happen with the mouse behavior and then they will look at the
voltage indicator.


Wrong again. You cant miss the low battery
indication with a properly designed mouse.


Hell, most users never notice the CapsLock LED on their keyboard is lit until
they notice they get all caps, then they look.


They dont even look at the led, just hit the caps lock key.


And it charges fast enough so that even a coffee break is enough to turn the
led off, and it will fully charge over lunch too.


Must be nice to have such a slow work schedule (or personal schedule).


Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasys.


Having to wait around 15 minutes let alone an hour is not tolerable.


Pity you dont have to, it will run fine for the rest of the day when its
showing a low battery indication. Its JUST a reminder to put it on
the charger when you are finished with it in the evening, and if you
manage to forget to do that, you can just stick it on the charger
when thats convenient the next day. No one actually uses their
system continuously all day.


I doubt the mouse will just happen to get low when it happens to be lunch or
break time.


You're ignoring the FACT that the low battery indication happens
A FULL DAY OF USE BEFORE IT NEEDS TO BE CHARGED.


I wasn't looking to deliberately generate interruptions in my game play or for
other use of my computers or a reason to slack off at work. Yeah, boss, gotta
take an early/late
lunch because my mouse isn't charged up.


Just another of your silly little pig ignorant fantasys.


Remember when inside a game that you won't see a tray icon that may show you
voltage level of the batteries


That particular mouse he asked about has a 4
level battery level indicator on the mouse itself.


Which the user won't be monitoring while playing a game or when engrossed in
their work.


Doesnt need to, just check it when stopping using the system
as an indication that the mouse needs to be charged that night.


They'll know to replace the batteries or recharge when and after the mouse
starts behaving erratically, and by then voltage is too low.


Wrong, as always.


Keyboards have had ScrollLock, NumLock, and CapsLock LEDs for decades and yet
they don't monitor them until after something doesn't behave as expected.


They dont even bother to look at them even then, just hit the caps
lock key when they get a set of caps when that isnt intended.


(and I've yet to see such a tray icon


Again, you need to get out more. The Logitechs have that.


I didn't say no tray icon was provided.


I didnt say you did. I JUST said that if you havent
seen such a tray icon, you need to get out more.


Yep, if you cannot argue the point, chop it up so it looks like they said
something else.


Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.


Not with that one he asked about. And its got a
4 level charge indicator on the mouse anyway.


Yeah, you made that point already. Do you actually watch your mouse as you
move it around and click on its buttons?


Dont need to with a properly designed low battery indicator.

Even you'd notice, even tho you have clearly wanked yourself blind.


Also, the polling rate for wireless mices is much slower.


Wrong again.


Yep, you are right - for GAMING mice. Some examples:


Typical cordless mouse: 125 Hz
Typical corded mouse: 200 Hz
Logitech MX1000 cordless mouse: Logitech doesn't say
Logitech G7 Laser cordless mouse: 500 Hz
Razer Copperhead cordless mouse: 1000 Hz


Logitech doesn't list the reports/sec (Hz) polling rate for the MX1000. Since
they advertise the G7 as their gaming mouse then the MX1000 is probably
something less, like 200 Hz which puts it equivalent to the corded mice.


So if there are wireless gaming mice, there aren't wired gaming mice?


Because all wired mice have an adequate polling rate.


I've heard of programs, like USB Mouserate Switcher, than can up the polling
rate to 1000 Hz. While Logitech has their wireless G7 gaming mouse, they also
have their wired G7 gaming mouse for those not wanting the extra weight of
batteries and the nuisances that batteries incur. So, yes, I was wrong that
the polling rate is worse for wireless mice. It just isn't any better than
wired mice.


Corse it is, the wire cant ever get in the road.


You might try to up the sampling rate and buffer size but that won't affect
the polling rate between the wireless mouse and the receiver.


Not a problem with a properly designed system.


I've tried 7 wireless mice from IBM, Microsoft, Logitech, and a couple of
the low-name brands and ALL were more jerky in gameplay than a wired mouse.


You clearly didnt try the MX700.


After trialing several wireless mice, I decided I liked the much
lighter corded mice due to the lack of weight for the batteries.


Your problem. So you clearly arent in any position to say
anything useful about how suitable they are for gaming,
or anything else at all about them either. You clearly dont
actually have a clue about the basics with a low battery
indicator with a properly designed wireless mouse either.


I use my mouse a LOT over long continuous hours of use.


So do I, and I bet its more than you do too.


Casual users probably won't mind. I'm arguing for less stress and less
fatigue.
You're arguing for more of these.


Wrong again. I get no stress and no fatigue with my wireless
mouse, even tho its is certainly heavier than the corded mice,
and I dont just run it around on the tabletop either.

You must be extremely puny if you cant manage a wireless mouse.


For short use, like a couple hours, you might not mind.


I dont mind when I use it for 20+ hours thanks.


The same is true for the newbies that start working in computer rooms and
don't wear ear protectors because, well, gee, all the fans don't seem to be
that loud.


Some of us have enough of a clue to assemble quiet systems.


Some are much better than others but then most folks don't go switching
between them and wired mice often enough to see the small jerkiness in
movement that remains with wireless mice, or they play undemanding and slow
games.


You clearly havent tried a decent gaming wireless mouse.


Paying 5 times the price didn't make economical sense.


Mindlessly silly. Even the most expensive wireless mice cost
peanuts per year for the 7 years they are warranted for.

Even a desperate pov like you should be able to manage that.

In spades when you consider the cost of the rest of the gaming hardware.


I can also get a decent gaming WIRED mouse, too. Logitech G3 wired mouse at
$60 (Logitech's price; $47 at newegg.com).


I did NOT include the MX1000 because "cordless performance that equals USB
corded connection" (Logitech's description) means it runs as the measly 125
Hz,


You dont know that.


and even my wired non-gaming mouse can do 200 Hz.


You dont know that its any worse than that.


The G7 wireless (at the same 500 Hz as the G3 wired) costs $100 (Logitech's
price; $72 at newegg.com)


Peanuts per year over 3 years its warranted for when the cost
of the rest of the gaming hardware per year is considered.


and you get 2.5 days of battery life for average game play.


So if you put it on the charger every evening,
you will never ever see any low battery indicator.


More money


Peanuts, actually.


with the nuisance of batteries.


No nuisance what so every, you just put it in the charger
when you are finished with the system every evening etc.

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to manage that.


Such a deal.


Such pathetic excuse for bull****.


Wireless mice never have the longevity claimed by the mouse manufacturer.


Mine hasnt failed and its been years now.


Sorry, I meant they don't have the longevity of battery life as promised by
the mouse manufacturer.


Mine does.


The cradle was provided to hide that fact.


Nope, to provide a convenient way to charge it, actually.


Some even come with 2 battery packs with the cradle to further hide the
problem of using batteries (so you're back to swapping batteries).


If you're actually stupid enough to buy one of those...


I found the Logitech are more responsive than IBM or Microsoft but that's
because the Logitech doesn't go to sleep as often


Doesnt go to sleep at all when its being used.


Except YOU don't constantly keep the mouse in motion.


You dont need to, it STILL doesnt sleep with a properly designed mouse.


Most will go to sleep in just 1 minute.


What matters is what a properly designed gaming mouse does.


With the IBM, it was 1.5 seconds to get it out of sleep mode which meant I
could be circling the mouse quite a bit before the mouse cursor started
moving.


I have never ever had to do that for any time whatever.


The Microsoft went to sleep after 1 minute but was quicker to wake up but I
could still see the lag when I went to move the mouse before it woke up.


I have never ever seen mine visibly wake up except in the sense
that you can see the laser go to full power immediately its moved.


The Logitech's went to sleep after a longer period of inactivity and were
quicker to wake up, but they were also the shortest for battery longevity.


Irrelevant if you never ever get any low battery indication ever if
you charge it every evening when you are finished with the system.


With a corded mouse, it never sleeps so you don't have to "shake it" to wake
it up.


Never ever had to shake my cordless mouse to wake it up.


Cordless mice MUST go to sleep to preserve battery life.


And its perfectly possible to design it so it wakes up so fast
that you never notice any delay, and it STILL never shows
any low battery indication if you charge it every evening.


If all you do is graphics then it's possible that you keep you mouse
continuously active.


I dont even see it sleep when I am
replying to a longer post like this one.


Same for when you are playing games unless you find the keyboard provides
better control, especially for movement. For the rest of the use of the
computer, you will use the keyboard a lot, just like when you're typing your
replies here.


Yes, and it doesnt go to sleep while I do.


Meanwhile your mouse sits idle and goes to sleep


Wrong, as always.


so you have to wake it to get the mouse cursor moving.


Wrong again, it wakes up so fast you dont even notice.


and it also wakes up faster, and I've found Logitech to be less jerky (but
still jerkier than wired but tolerable and probably not noticable by lots of
users).


It isnt jerky at all with the MX700.


Which is a Logitech model. Have you tried other brands?


Yep.


I said the Logitech were smoother.


Pity you also claimed that they are still jerkier than
wired and you are just plain wrong, as always.


And because they're less reliable than wired keyboards,


Pure drivel.


Some come with cradles so you don't have to replace batteries. Most wireless
mice do NOT have cradles.


Irrelevant, you buy one that does, stupid.


You think it is more reliable to have users flexing a tab to remove a panel
and be yanking out and shoving in batteries?


Nope, that a cordless mouse which has a charge is more
reliable than a wired mouse, because the cable cant fail.


Besides the batteries, there is more to break in wireless mice.


Pity they dont have a constantly flexed wire to break.


After all, corded mice don't have to deal with RF/EMF interference, switching
channels to eliminate cross-talk between nearby cordless mice or keyboards,
and when they break (and remember they ARE mechanical/manual devices so they
do break) the cordless units are cheaper to replace.


Wrong again. Mine has a 7 year warranty thanks.


Wireless mice are supposed to have a working range of up to 15 feet. True
and not true. Some won't work if the mouse if more than 3 feet away from
the receiver.


Anyone with a clue gets one with a much better
range than that if they need that. Bluetooth works
so far that you cant read the monitor anymore.


And farther range is a plus?


If you have a problem with it not working more than 3 feet away, obviously.


So you have greater chance of interference (from other Bluetooth devices or
EMF) is a plus?


Just another of your silly little pig ignorant fantasys.

You've clearly never actually used one.


What's the point of extended range in a *mouse* or *keyboard*?


You were the one whining about not working past 3 feet.


Wireless hubs/routers maybe, but mice? (rolls eyes)


Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.


Be careful what you place between the receiver and mouse. Yes, RF mice
don't need line-of-sight but hiding the receiver on the other side of a
metallic system case or behind a monitor can result in poor reception.


Even you should be able to avoid that situation.


Not when you have a cubicle with 8 machines, 4 monitors (one on a KVM for 7 of
the hosts, one for the Sun, one for a remote test station, and another for the
alpha lab), and still need to retain enough desktop space for paperwork and a
phone.


Mindlessly silly.


Not everyone has unlimited space


You dont need that.


and can configure the physical layout anyway they want with an unlimited
budget to buy whatever they need.


Dont need an unlimited budget either.

And even you should be able to use bluetooth to completely
eliminate that problem and the one below, if someone was actually
stupid enough to lend you a seeing eye dog and a white cane.


There is also the problem of one wireless mouse affecting another.


Not with a properly designed system.


And still you have to explain how you define this "properly designed system"
within the limitations of the settings that are available in the devices.


Nope, not with bluetooth.


How many channels are available to prevent interference with other wireless
devices?


Its essentially unlimited with bluetooth.


Can you budget for the shielding?


Dont need any.


Just because it is possible doesn't mean it is feasible.


Its feasible anyway, hordes are doing it every single day.


the wireless mice so they won't interfere, and most only give you 2
"channels". In a home environment


Which just happens to be the situation being discussed.


So you know that the OP lives in a house at a good distance from his neighbors
and not in a condo, townhome, or apartment where the neighbors' computer are
just across that sheetrock wall?


That MX1000 will still work fine even in that situation.


with just one computer, this interference isn't a problem (unless you're in
an apartment near the same wall where the next tenant also has their
computer and wireless mouse),


It has to be the same system too.


Let's see.


Not possible for you, you've wanked yourself completely blind.


In an apartment, you could have a neighbor to the left, to the right, across
the hall, upstairs, and downstairs.


Not necessarily using the same system tho. In fact unlikely that they will be.


And with yourclaimed Bluetooth, now you're including neighbors several rooms
away and several floors up and down.


But with unlimited channel capability.


Not quite as bad as wireless mice in populate cubicles but not so isolated as
you imply.


Fraid so, its much more likely that the rat hole situation
will see all the rats using the same wireless system.


For wireless mice, and because they don't last that long, now they're making
cradles to keep the batteries recharged (to hide the poor longevity).


Nope, because thats more convenient than farting around changing batterys.


And now some of those coming with cradles are including 2 battery packs


**** all do. Even someone as stupid as you
should be able to work out how to avoid those.


because, gee, the batteries might be too low and the charge take
too long and the user wants to continue working or playing NOW.


Even someone as stupid as you should be able to work out that
if you put the mouse on the charger every evening when you have
finished using the system, you never need to stop anything to
charge the mouse ever, let alone change any battery.


The cradles were to hide the nuisances of batteries


They completely eliminate it.


but they are proving insufficient, especially for heavy gamers,


Wrong again.


so now they're back to providing replaceable battery packs


**** all do.


(so we're back to swapping batteries) besides providing the cradle.


Not with the mice that go for days between charges.


You've likely noticed cordless phones use the same system.


And why you better have a non-cordless phone for emergency use.


Different problem, the base isnt powered in that situation.


If the power goes out, so does your cordless phone.


Not necessarily, it wont if you have it on any UPS at all.


Why? Well, yeah, the battery in the cordless phone still works but the base
unit which does NOT have batteries is dead and what your cordless phone uses
to interface to the POTS line. If you have cordless phones, you had better
get a UPS for them


Or you may well have a UPS anyway and all you have to do
is to plug it into that. Even you should be able to manage that.


or add a corded phone somewhere in your house so you can actually call the
power company to report the outage.


Its very unlikely that you actually need to report it and that
sort of thing is so rare that anyone with a clue continues to
use cordless phones and has a spare corded phone in case
its ever needed.

Only a fool avoids using cordless phones for that reason.


Also remember that wireless mice weigh more than wired mice.


I dont care. Its weight is fine anyway.


So you're arguing that MORE strain and effort is better than less. Uh huh.


There is no more strain and effort whatever.

And if you're that puny, the cord will be a problem anyway.


Users that have a good reason or simply feel the need to go cordless usually
don't lie or delude themself about the negative tradeoff in the extra weight
for the wireless mouse.


Or its just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasys.


Why? Because of the weight of the batteries. If you choose to use a mouse
(instead of a trackball), you will invariably end up having to lift the
mouse over and over to reposition it on the mouse pad or desktop.


Even a weakling like you should be able to manage that fine.


Advice from someone that doesn't care about fatigue or strain.


From someone who knows that there is no more fatigue or strain, actually.


Masochism comes to mind for someone that actually likes to do it the hard way.


Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.


Yeah, if wireless mouse manufacturers couldn't figure out how to lighten their
devices (without reducing battery longevity), of
course they wouldn't want to do that, oh no.


Or maybe they actually realise that there are few so puny that
they cant manage to move a cordless mouse around on the tabletop.


You think the other mouse manufacturers would dread if someone came out with a
wireless mouse that weighed no more than a wired mouse?


Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.


Personally I have no desire to be shoving a brick around to move the mouse
cursor.


Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.


So how do you pick up the mouse for all that repositioning? By squeezing it
between your fingers (thumb and pinky usually).


Wrong again.


Your pinky can get tired after hours and hours of mouse use,
especially with a heavier mouse that has to house batteries.


Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.


Oh, and you use telekinesis to raise and move over your mouse?


Nope, I just dont hold it between my thumb and pinky.

Might be because I actually use a properly designed mouse.


How wonderful for you. Or maybe you've permanently glued some velcro onto
your palm and onto the mouse.


In your case its obviously the hair on your palms and the
unspeakable secretions that are matted in that that does that.


If you can arrange that the cord is unfettered so it doesn't snag
and also doesn't hit anything (to eliminate torqueing on the mouse
from restricted cord movement), a wired mouse is much less effort
to move over extended periods of use.


Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.


You're failing faster and faster.


Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.


My fingers got sore from prolonged use of a wireless mouse because of the
extra weight.


Not everyone is a puny as you.


Some of us actually have to USE computers all day long and then into the
night, too.


Yep, bet I use mine for longer than you do too thanks.


To you, your computer is a very pricey toy.


Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.


For me, it's a constantly used tool.


You might not actually be alone on that, child.


Hold a pencil with your arm outstretched straight from your side so it is
vertical. Nothing to it, huh? Now keep your arm there for hours and hours.
Yeah, right, you are Superman.


Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.


I was talking about using a computer for extended periods of time, not between
TV commercials.


Me too thanks, child. I dont ever get any TV commercials
either, my system eliminates those thanks.


Even when gaming for hours on end, I find a lighter mouse less strain on my
fingers and wrist than using a heavier mouse.


You're that puny ? Your problem.


I also don't go deliberately looking for keyboards that have the hardest
keys to press, either.


Not everyone is a puny as you.


Boring.


Your sig is sposed to go at the bottom, child.


Wireless mice are pricier. Break a wired one and its replacement
is cheap. Break or lose a wireless mouse and you'll waste time
hunting around for a better price or rethinking your original choice.


So dont break it, stupid.


Wow, a self-professed male living alone.


You're guessing again, and egg all over your silly little face, as always.


Try living with kids in the house, or coworkers that need to use your host.


Dont need to try that thanks, child.


Again, he speaks from experience regarding infrequent use of his computer
equipment.


Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.


Also consider the expense of batteries.


No thanks, I had enough of a clue to get one with a charging cradle.


You've already paid for all those batteries by having to pay extra for the
cordless mouse that comes with a cradle.


Peanuts as part of what you pay for the rest of the gaming system.


You really got the cradle for free? You really got those LIon batteries for
free?


Nope, but they cost peanuts.


Whether you bought a cordless mouse with or without a cradle, you still ended
up paying for all those batteries.


You quite sure you aint one of those rocket
scientist pathetic excuses for a bull**** artist ?


Unless you get one with a cradle, you will need to buy lots of alkaline
batteries


Only fools are actually that stupid.


So those without cradles won't need to buy batteries?


Nope, they dont need LOTS OF ALKALINE BATTERYS.


Wonderful. Let's hear about your new perpetual motion engine.


Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.


Perhaps it was the "unless you get one with a cradle" that was stupid.


Nope.


You didn't clarify.


Didnt need to unless you actually are that stupid.


If so, you're in that class.


Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.


If what you meant to say is that buying a cordless mouse without a cradle is
stupid,


Nope.


well, you already paid for all those batteries due to the higher cost of
including the charging cradle


Not if you dont bother with one of those.


and the higher cost for the rechargeable batteries.


Peanuts compared with the cost of ALL THOSE ALKALINE BATTERYS.


or you will need to get the rechargeable batteries (that don't last a long
per charge as the single-use of non-rechargeable) along with a charger.


Anyone with a clue buys one with a charging cradle.


Not if they are buying a number of machines (but then wireless gets dumped in
that case, anyway) to be used by a varying number of ever-changing users.
Anytime there are multiple parts, there's more chance they get lost.


Mindlessly silly. I dont bother with wired
remotes anymore, or wired phones either.


Reliability is often more important than gimmickry. And reliability is not
just measured in how long the device physically endures.


And the wired mice and keyboards I used never did last that long.

Keep desperately digging, you'll be out in china any day now.


If you get one with a recharging cradle, you'll get ****ed off
everytime you leave the computer to come back to find that you forgot to
cradle your wireless mouse when you left, and now your mouse is still dead
while you wait for it to charge.


You've clearly never used one. A properly designed one will
go for days between charges, will give enough of a warning
about low battery that you can still use it all day and put it on
the charger when you stop using it that night, and will recharge
fully during the lunch break etc anyway.


Again someone who professes that they can excuse their lack of work to their
boss because their mouse battery went dead.


Doesnt happen if you put it on the charger every night, stupid.


Obviously not a demanding job when any excuse provides slack off time.


Doesnt happen if you put it on the charger every night, stupid.


Yes, I know several cordless mouse users that have a cradle. I giggle every
time they mention they are waiting for their mouse to charge because they
forgot to put it in the cradle the day before.


Still not a problem with properly designed mouse
that can go all day with the low battery led flashing.


Meanwhile I'm still working away with my corded mouse.


Until the cord fails.


In fact, anyone who used that excuse ended up getting their mouse replaced
with a corded one since that stupidity for downtime was not tolerated.


Doesnt happen if you put it on the charger every night, stupid.


Performance is more important than gimmickry.


Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.


And getting a wireless mouse does NOT reduce the number of cords, anyway.


It does where the cords matter, at the keyboard and mouse.


I stand corrected. The number of cords at the system unit is reduced since
only 1 cord is needed for the receiver as opposed to 1 for the mouse and 1 for
the keyboard. But there is still the cord.


Pity its out of the road so it doesnt matter.


The cords matter at the keyboard and mouse?


Yep.


The keyboard doesn't move (except for you and others that seem to find their
lap more comfortable).


It aint just those, some move the keyboard
to provide more desk space at times too.


It just sits there on the desk.


So does the cradle, stupid.


The mouse moves all around in a small 1-foot circle atop a mouse pad or the
same area on a desktop. If the mouse cord is unfettered, there is no
restriction in movement of the LIGHTER wired mouse (yeah, we already know your
masochistic argument that heavier mice are better).


Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.


You're still stuck with the corded receiver.


Since you never move that around, thats irrelevant.


The cord for the keyboard doesn't move around, either,


So you're no worse off than you are with a wired keyboard, stupid.


and my point as to why wireless is usually nonsense (not always, just
usually). Yes, you like to much more slowly type with the keyboard in your
lap but I wasn't speaking to abnormal use.


Plenty move their keyboards at times for more desk space.


Must be a very large lap you have for both keyboard and mouse


Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.


(ooh-hoo-oooh, don't like that image, think of something else, think of
something else).


Let go of it before you end up completely blind, child.


Wired keyboards just work. Wireless ones have to be babysat.


Likewise when battery level goes low, you'll start to hear users in
the cubicles start swearing and banging harder on the keys until
you wander over to have a check and then replace the batteries.


Not everyone has to deal with cretins in cubicles.


And, for home users sitting alone at their computers wondering why their game
character isn't moving or acting erratically, the cretin is that lone home
user having to deal with themself.


Even someone as stupid as you should notice the flashing low battery indicator.


You haven't had to deal with users much,


Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.

Been doing that likely since before you were even born thanks, child.


you know, all those folks buying or using the
devices. Aren't you lucky. In a world of one.


Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.


There are good reasons of when or why to get wireless devices.
However, few of them come into play for users that choose them.


Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.


Now, don't you feel so much better qualifying me as a drug crazed fantasizing
cretin-helping puny weakling?


Nope, fools like you should get a bullet in the back of the neck.


I didn't say there was no reason to get a wireless mouse.


Liar.


I'm saying that most consumers get them when they can't qualify why they need
wireless.


Irrelevant to whether they are useful anyway.

True in spades of cordless phones and cordless remotes.

Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 00:12:39 -0500, "Vanguard"
wrote:

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Vanguard wrote
wrote

Exactly why I quit using wireless mice (and keyboards). The
keyboard
rarely moves anyway so what's the point of having it wireless?

Mine moves a lot because I dont use it on a desktop.

You really think using a keyboard atop your lap is normal use by the
majority of wireless keyboard users?

Sometimes a wireless mouse makes good sense but not so much for a
wireless keyboard.

Actually it's the other way round. Mouse needs a flat surface, and
the monitor normally sits on a flat surface so it's easy to use the
mouse there. The keyboard can be perched on the lap or knee
with no problem.
Personally, I went wireless after the keyboard cord pulled my PS2
connection loose on my IBM PS/2 Consultant 486 motherboard.
IBM wanted $2200 for a new one even though the entire box
had cost about $1800 originally. Luckily my brother the engineer
was working at a diagnostic card company and fixed the board under a
scope.
There was considerable stress on that connection when the corded
keyboard was being gripped by a 200 pound man flipping backwards
over a big wheeled chair and falling to the floor. He was playing
DOOM. Yeah, it was me.
Anyway, my keyboard is perched on my lap now, as my normal mode
is to sit leaning back against the wall in a big cushioned office
chair, legs up one across the other with a foot on the ottoman.
No sense sitting like a professional typist, since I hardly type.
Of course I have lots of room, and my chair actually faces a big TV.
In the office I had the common setup.
I still occasionally drop a keyboard to the floor.
As a gamer I've had no game performance issues with the Logitech
wireless mice I've used over the years. But others may be
quicker-handed than me and find it an issue.
The biggest mouse problem is batteries are a pain in the ass.
I use rechargeables and if I get a week from them that's good.
A simple on/off switch on the mouse might allow them to last double
that, as the light is always on. But maybe the switch would be the
major failure point of the mouse.
I got a cradled wireless USB mouse as a gift but don't like the feel
of it, and its laggy besides. Don't know if that's the fault of the
mouse quality or that it's USB.
Since I build or fix 3 or 4 computers a year, I keep a wired PS/2
keyboard and mouse on a shelf for that work, as I don't need the added
connectivity issues when troubleshooting.
Once the la test sets of rechargeables bite the dust I'm probably
going back to a wired mouse.

You want to try a decent logitech cradled wireless mouse.

Main problem is the price, otherwise they are very well designed indeed.

They are a bit quirky shape wise tho, I guess some may not like the shape.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Sometimes a wireless mouse makes good sense

Mostly, actually, you dont have the nuisance of the cable.

There is still a cable. I think you're focusing on the device end and
yet I have no nuisance with the cord at the mouse end by making sure
it doesn't snag or push against anything when the mouse is moved.
Sometimes it's just too hard to setup the desk so the cord is
unfettered so a cordless mouse is nicer *if* you're willing to
tradeoff for the heavier weight. Could be a justifiable tradeoff.
But we don't know if the OP has such a cluttered desk that there
really is a problem with the cord; if so, he might also have a problem
with the cord for the receiver. Where my desks are so cluttered that
cordless might justified, there is also so little room to move the
mouse that it wouldn't matter if it was corded or not. For those, I
use a trackball and it doesn't matter if it was corded or not since
the trackball never moves (so I go corded because it is cheaper to buy
and cheaper to replace).

Only real downside is that its easier to drop a wireless mouse.

I used to have a Kensington trackball so I didn't even have to pick up
the pointing device like you do with mice, except the kids kept taking
the ball to play with. I found a pool shop where snooker balls were
the same size so I bought half a dozen. If the ball is missing now, I
can usually find one laying around to put into the trackball base.
With a corded mouse, it doesn't wander off as easily as a cordless one
(and they've gone "walking off" at work, too).

One place a wireless mouse comes in handy is on shared hosts (or,
at least, on shared I/O devices to those hosts).

Yes, tho thats a less important factor here since
I use Synergy to share the mouse and keyboard
and have separate monitors on the switching that.

Useful if you have the room for all those monitors to let Synergy move
the mouse between them. For a home user that has as many monitors as
they have hosts (assuming they have multiple hosts to qualify the need
for Synergy), that could be a lot of desktop real estate. At work
with hundreds of hosts in the lab, that many monitors would be an
impossibility. When I used the plural "hosts", I meant many of them,
not just 2. "Synergy lets you easily share a single mouse and
keyboard between multiple computers ..., each with its own display".
While I might tolerate having multiple boxes around running one or
multiple operating systems at the same time via VMware or Xen, I
wouldn't want to require vast desktop or shelf space for all those
monitors. My real point was that THE mouse is a deliberate shared
resource so cordless means users can use it right- or left-handed as
they pleased (provided you actually get an *ambidexterous* cordless
mouse) regardless whether or not the mouse was shared amongst
monitors, through KVMs, for hosts at a test station, or whatever. The
device is shared by dozens of users so cordless made sense in that
case.

I run it around on an old A4 book cover on my lap, sometime
run it around on my chest when doing something simple mouse
wise for a moment with the keyboard on my lap.

Ah ha ha ha. Now that's a bad picture of a guy rolling a cordless
mouse around on his hairy chest. Okay, yeah, I know, you're wearing a
shirt but the image that popped up was funny. At that point, if
you're doing most of your computing from a recliner, I would think one
of those g-force mice or G-gloves that figures out how to move the
cursor by you waving it around in mid-air might be a better choice so
you don't need to contrive a surface for the mouse. Yeah, pricier,
but then economy doesn't seem crucial to your arguments (because
you're only considering one host or workstation along with unlimited
funds).

The only time wireless makes sense is if the system unit will be
farther away than the cord, but then wireless devices don't come
with very long cords, either.

Wrong again. The bluetooth devices can be used so far from
the system that you cant even read the monitor anymore.

What is the point of moving yourself far away from that large
monitor

I dont do that, I use it in the same place as the smaller monitor
used to be.

So you are still within the same range as a non-Bluetooth cordless
mouse. Blows the reason for bringing Bluetooth into the arguments.

I don't recall ever seeing someone down the hallway waving their
mouse around.

Yes, but it does blow that silly claim you made about range
completely
out of the water, and fixes the multiple channel problem completely
too.

And so does using a corded mouse regarding [the lack of] interferrence
between mouse and keyboard users because there no such problem to have
to deal with in the first place. If Bluetooth was so great, why did
it fail in the marketplace? You see Bluetooth engulfing the entire RF
device market? Logitech currently has but a single Bluetooth cordless
mouse (for use with a Bluetooth notebook or Apple Powerbook) which all
of only doubled the 15-foot range to 30 feet (but then who uses their
cordless mouse more than a couple feet from their monitor excluding,
of course, the tiny minority of recliner-based users, like yourself?).
If it was the quintessential RF technology, why didn't it supplant all
other remote control RF technologies in the over 5 years since it's
been around? Another use of Bluetooth is creating a 'piconet' (1
master + 7 slaves) ad-hoc network. There can be 255 slaves but only 7
can be active at at time which pretty much kills it for anything but a
"personal" network (since the hubs, routers, and other network devices
would get counted with the hosts in that 7-max active count). Even
with 7 active slaves, the master can only communicate with 1 host at a
time in a round-robin scheme. Other "interferrence" could be hacking.
Despite encryption, it was shown over a year ago that pairing between
Bluetooth devices could be forced to let a outside Bluetooth device
sneak into your network
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06...h_mobo_attack/) and
now there's Bluesnarfing into Bluetooth phones
(http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/...luetooth.html).
I don't recall ever hearing or reading of anyone that was found
wardriving into corded mice or corded keyboards.

That Bluetooth has greater range but with the same distance between
cubicles or offices means greater chance of interference from other
Bluetooth devices (i.e., larger range with same density of users).
"Bluetooth technology’s adaptive frequency hopping (AFH) capability
was designed to reduce interference between wireless technologies
sharing the 2.4 GHz spectrum. AFH works within the spectrum to take
advantage of the available frequency. This is done by detecting other
devices in the spectrum and avoiding the frequencies they are using."
Since they are sharing the same unlicensed 2.4Ghz ISM band as other RF
devices, and because it uses some adaptive "hopping" around to find
some bandwidth, seems the "interferrence" could simply be in getting
choked out from finding any available bandwidth. It can hop amongst
79 frequencies, so in a high density populace of Bluetooth users, like
at some company enamored with the technology, it sure seems plausible
that its extended range for its sphere of connectivity could encompass
far more than just 79 different Bluetooth users. So the interferrence
problem is still an issue - but maybe not, as you mention, for the
home user (i.e., the OP). Because it is still RF technology, it is
still susceptible to EMF just like your cordless telephone. However,
we're on a tangent with Bluetooth since *NONE* of the gaming mice from
Logitech in which the user is or would be interested use Bluetooth.

Oh, of course, your response is "not in a properly configured
system". You can configure the "system" only within the limits of
the settings that are provided.

And those limits dont exist with bluetooth mice and keyboards.

Bluetooth has its limits, too.

You are really claiming that it is ALWAYS possible to eliminate
interference with other Bluetooth and other RF devices?

Yep. Bluetooth has been designed from scratch to
handle multiple bluetooth sessions in close proximity.

If so, time to visit the US Patent Office with that discovery.

No point, its already been invented, its called bluetooth.

No, it's called EMF and it affects any RF device, including Bluetooth.

I've yet to see one that notifies you BEFORE voltage gets too low
to affect behavior.

You need to get out more. The MX700 warns you so early that you
can continue to use it fine all day once it starts warning of a
low battery.

During gameplay, just where are you going to see that warning icon?

It isnt an icon, the led on the top of the mouse starts blinking
slowly.

Even you would notice it.

That's good (that it uses the flash LED on the mouse). A picture of
the Logitech G7 gaming mouse is shown at
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/pr...ONTENTID=10716
(click the "Alternate Views" link). Just how are you going to see
that blinking LED through your hand that rests atop the mouse and
covers those LEDs? I'm assuming those red rectangles in the picture
are the LEDs to which you refer. While using non-game applications,
your mousing hand probably comes of the mouse often enough, like when
typing, so you would see the blinking LED. During gameplay, your hand
is on the mouse all the time. The MX1000 shown at
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/pr...CONTENTID=9043
might have a better chance of some of the light leaking past your palm
so you might see its reflection on your desktop or mousepad ... maybe.

I've never seen users watching their mouse.

You dont need to. The indicator is so obvious
that even you wouldnt be able to miss it.

So are the LEDs on the keyboard but users miss those, too. "Why
doesn't my password work? Oh, the CapsLock, thanks." Now Windows will
even popup a prompt in case you type with the CapsLock on because
users still manage not to see the LED on the keyboard. The indicators
are NOT in line-of-sight of the monitor, and many users eventually
learn to actually type so they don't have to peck around on the
keyboard or even look at the mouse or keyboard to use them, so some
systems are setup to display the Caps-, Scroll-, and NumLock on the
screen but they don't display during games (so a tray icon or popup
dialog for battery voltage won't be and should not be visible).

Instead they watch the mouse cursor on the monitor, so it will be
when
they experience erratic behavior that they might then check on
battery
voltage but then it's low and they have to do something about it
then.

Wrong again. You get the indication of low battery LONG before you
ever get any erratic behaviour with a properly designed wireless
mouse.

And my mouse usage is determined by my work which has priority, not
the other way around. I want to get my work done, not plan on when I
need to replace batteries or cradle the mouse during which I'm forced
to be idle - until, of course, I connect a corded mouse to continue
working. I really doubt the indicators are going to give me more than
a day's notice but then I'm using my mouse all day long (and some of
my days are very long). Rather than generalize, just how many hours
does the indicator give you a low battery warning? If it's 10 hours,
how could the battery be so low that a warning is issued and yet those
low batteries are still usable for another 10 hours (which presumably
is FULL and CONTINUAL use during those 10 hours)?

Something will happen with the mouse behavior and then they will
look at the voltage indicator.

Wrong again. You cant miss the low battery
indication with a properly designed mouse.

Your hand is over those battery charge LEDs. Those LEDs are not in
line-of-sight. Maybe you play your games in the dark which would help
you see the reflection of that blinking LED but maybe not in a
well-lit room when using applications. Yes, you can miss the
indicators down on the mouse just like you can miss them on the
keyboard. I focus on what is displayed on the monitor, not what is
under my fingers. That's why I learned to type so I don't have to
look down at my fingers, and I never look down at the mouse. And when
in the heat of solving problems or writing them up, I'm not going to
bother with blinking LEDs anymore than I'll bother with non-critical
email alerts. I'm busy so get out of my way.

Pity you dont have to, it will run fine for the rest of the day when
its
showing a low battery indication.

It warns a day ahead that the battery is low? Then it really wasn't
low, was it?

Its JUST a reminder to put it on
the charger when you are finished with it in the evening,

Since Logitech says that battery life is 2 to 3 days for gaming mode
then what's the point of the reminder since you'll end up having to
cradle the mouse everyday in the first place? You certainly wouldn't
want to wait until the end of the 2nd day to cradle your mouse because
it might be dead by then. So it is supposed to cradled everyday. No
indicator needed for that.

You're ignoring the FACT that the low battery indication happens
A FULL DAY OF USE BEFORE IT NEEDS TO BE CHARGED.

Which means it is a useless warning because it isn't warning you when
the battery is actually low. A gas guage that reads low just after
you filled it or when it was still half full would get replaced. Of
course, when the mouse really was low, it gets low faster having to
light up those LEDs. An LED that is lit all day long about low
battery voltage is not an alert but simply another visual cue that
becomes less noticeable over the course of that day; i.e., it's been
on all day so its importance wanes. Does perhaps the blinking rate
change as the voltage gets lower so there is some real indication of
*remaining* battery life?

Just another of your silly little pig ignorant fantasys.

Oh, here we go again.

They'll know to replace the batteries or recharge when and after
the mouse starts behaving erratically, and by then voltage is too
low.

Wrong, as always.

You're enamored with the LEDs and apparently are constantly watching
them. I never look at the mouse and keyboard because that would slow
down my fingers and mousing. Everything is hurried. I don't need to
glancing all around to check for indicators. I used to have an
answering machine which blinked an LED when there new messages (and it
was cordless, too, which meant I had to have a wired phone for when
there were power outages since the base was dead for the cordless
telephone). With all the other blinking indicators, some of which
represent a "good" state, for all the equipment in my cubicle and on
my desk, I never saw that I had new messages. I replaced it with one
that would blink an LED *and* would beep once a minute so I got an
audible alert since obviously I wasn't going to glare at my telephone
nor do I want to be bothered having to repeatedly glance over at it.
I don't need my focus drawn away from my work, or from my game.

Dont need to with a properly designed low battery indicator.

Properly designed this. Properly designed that. Boring. Unless the
LED is in my face, I'm not going to see it. That's not where is my
focus. Distraction wastes time. My car radio's display could be
flashing swear words but I'd never know since I'm watching the road
unlike the idiot prattling into a cell phone, playing with his radio,
while eating their lunch and using their knees to steer. I don't
multitask in my car. I do multitask my sight at work and home but
ONLY with what is on the monitor, not with what is under my fingers.

Even you'd notice, even tho you have clearly wanked yourself blind.

And you are way too easily distracted from your work or game, and
probably are sitting in an overly dark room while tiring your eyes
from the dilator muscle constantly opening the iris but which lets you
perhaps more easily see one particular reflection of a blinking LED
under your hand. If an active indicator (visual or audible) doesn't
require attention now, it gets ignored. Urgency of alerts wanes if
they are continuous or extended. I have better things to do at the
time, like doing my work or playing that engrossing game.
Also, the polling rate for wireless mices is much slower.

Wrong again.

Yep, you are right - for GAMING mice. Some examples:

Typical cordless mouse: 125 Hz
Typical corded mouse: 200 Hz
Logitech MX1000 cordless mouse: Logitech doesn't say
Logitech G7 Laser cordless mouse: 500 Hz
Razer Copperhead cordless mouse: 1000 Hz

Logitech doesn't list the reports/sec (Hz) polling rate for the
MX1000. Since they advertise the G7 as their gaming mouse then the
MX1000 is probably something less, like 200 Hz which puts it
equivalent to the corded mice.

So if there are wireless gaming mice, there aren't wired gaming
mice?

Because all wired mice have an adequate polling rate.

Well, 200 Hz is usually good enough but then your arguments, so far,
have been against just "good enough". If 200 Hz (5 ms) was all that
was needed, why do the "gaming" mice go up to 1000 Hz (for a 1ms poll
interval), corded or cordless? The first tweak I do for the mouse is
to max its polling rate. 200 Hz (5 ms) is fast but not fast enough
for some gamers. Higher polling rates mean less reliance on
interpolation for very fast mouse movement. While some users don't
have the room to zoom their mouse all the way across their desk in a
second to represent fast movement over a long distance as can be done
by smacking a freely moving trackball, they still may need to make
extremely quick jerks in movement. A higher polling rate means a more
accurate representation of the actual movement of the pointing device.

After trialing several wireless mice, I decided I liked the much
lighter corded mice due to the lack of weight for the batteries.

Your problem. So you clearly arent in any position to say
anything useful about how suitable they are for gaming,
or anything else at all about them either. You clearly dont
actually have a clue about the basics with a low battery
indicator with a properly designed wireless mouse either.

Yep, back to the "properly designed" claim. Yep, what I prefer after
actually trialing several is of no consequence in my decision as to
what I will use. You like heavy mice, so by the same argument, that
must also mean that you are in no position to say anything useful
about non-wireless mice or keyboards and that you clearly don't
actually have a clue about the basics of ergonomics, economics, and of
being focused on your work or game. Yep, just as dumb an insult as
was yours.

I use my mouse a LOT over long continuous hours of use.

So do I, and I bet its more than you do too.

I work from 8AM to 6PM. And I do mean work and not taking breaks
because my mouse battery got low. Then I go home and program,
discuss, play games, or VPN back to work, and that's on the weekends,
too, all the while trying to be Dad and spouse, too. Personally I'd
love to get away from the computer but in software QA there are too
many technologies that get incorporated into enterprise products to
keep up with with the limited manpower available.

Casual users probably won't mind. I'm arguing for less stress and
less fatigue.
You're arguing for more of these.

Wrong again. I get no stress and no fatigue with my wireless
mouse, even tho its is certainly heavier than the corded mice,
and I dont just run it around on the tabletop either.

It's heavier but doesn't require more effort than moving a lighter
mouse. It's heavier but it doesn't incur more strain than moving a
lighter mouse. Yeah, really believable arguments those ... not.

You must be extremely puny if you cant manage a wireless mouse.

For short use, like a couple hours, you might not mind.

I dont mind when I use it for 20+ hours thanks.

And I can go without eating for several days. And I can go without
sleep for 84 hours. That's not important because those are not repeat
events since if they were I'd die from starvation while halucinating.
It's repeated use that causes strain. Anyone can do small feats of
strength or endurance for short periods or for one-time occurrences.
Big deal. And don't give us some lame claim that you only sleep 1
hour per night since 20+ hours is MORE than 20 hours, you still have
to drive from home from work, you still have to drive from work to
home, you still have to eat, you still have to **** (although that
could be multitasked with eating, shaving, and brushing your teeth, I
suppose), so after all those hours you would have maybe an hour to
sleep. Yeah, right, you're Superman, sure.

The same is true for the newbies that start working in computer
rooms and don't wear ear protectors because, well, gee, all the
fans don't seem to be that loud.

Some of us have enough of a clue to assemble quiet systems.

Yeah, right, YOU assembled all those main- and mid-frames, those
Solaris Sparc boxes, those HP and AIX machines, those blade servers,
all that air conditioning, yeah, right, sure. Geez, you think
building little Wintel boxes equates to a $7M test lab and a $80M
computer room? You just admitted that you have NEVER worked in a
computer room. A closet or cubicle with half a dozen PCs, or a test
station with a dozen Wintel and Linux hosts, does not a computer room
make.

Some are much better than others but then most folks don't go
switching between them and wired mice often enough to see the
small jerkiness in movement that remains with wireless mice, or
they play undemanding and slow games.

You clearly havent tried a decent gaming wireless mouse.

Paying 5 times the price didn't make economical sense.

Mindlessly silly. Even the most expensive wireless mice cost
peanuts per year for the 7 years they are warranted for.

And we should all appreciate paying higher gasoline prices because,
well, it's only dollars more per year over the few years of the car's
warranty (as if the warranty somehow ever came into play regarding ROI
or depreciation). 4GB of memory is only a few pennies more over the
decades that it will last but it still represents more money as a
chunk that has to paid out-of-pocket for your home PC all at once and
up front to actually get that memory. Why bother pricing out computer
systems since, well, even a $500 difference in price is just a quarter
per day over 5 years (some other nebulously derived term of life).
Sales people love to hide cost by pointing out how little it is over
some arbitrary term.

Even a desperate pov like you should be able to manage that.

Yeah, and of course every desparate pov never bothers with free e-mail
services (hmm, guess you must be a desparate pov since you use Gmail),
or use free NNTP servers, or install free software, or get free
whatever. And, of course, every desparate pov always wants to blow
wads of money on computer gear without regard to impact on reserves
for when something really critical pops up. Oh yeah, you're talking
just about a mouse but your rationale applies to everything since all
those extra expenses are just pennies a day. Since your money means
so little to you, how about sending a wad of it to the OP? After all,
it's just pennies to you. Yeah, I remember being young and stupid
when money used to burn a hole through my pockets. Then I got married
and had children so my priorities changed from being a self-centered
egotistic money-wasting unplanning idiot. Of course no one thinks of
economics when buying their computers. Uh huh.

In spades when you consider the cost of the rest of the gaming
hardware.

I can also get a decent gaming WIRED mouse, too. Logitech G3 wired
mouse at $60 (Logitech's price; $47 at newegg.com).

I did NOT include the MX1000 because "cordless performance that
equals USB corded connection" (Logitech's description) means it
runs as the measly 125 Hz,

You dont know that.

But you should know yet you didn't even bother to look and mention it.
The "gaming" mouse has a 500 Hz polling rate, or higher. The standard
PS/2 mouse can go up to 200 Hz. Since Logitech doesn't label their
MX1000 as a "gaming mouse" then it is something with LESS performance.
They sell their G7 model as something MORE appropriate to gaming than
their MX1000 model. So the MX100 is under 500 Hz and maybe more than
200 Hz. You could look, really you can. Use Device Management
(devmgmt.msc) to check what is the polling rate for your mouse device.
Then you could illuminate the rest of us as to what is the maximum
polling rate configurable for the MX1000. Otherwise, you're just
guessing, too, but at least I had some info to back up my guess.

and even my wired non-gaming mouse can do 200 Hz.

You dont know that its any worse than that.

The typical polling rate is 125 Hz for a USB mouse. That is what
Windows sets the for the device as the default polling rate. "The
MX1000 equals a USB mouse." The default polling rate is 125 Hz. Not
much of a leap there as to what the default polling rate is for the
MX1000. Sure you could probably up the polling rate, but you can do
that for the wired mouse, too. So the MX1000 doesn't have a polling
rate any higher - unless you show otherwise - than a wired mouse ...
and even a non-gaming wired mouse can be set to 200 Hz. So with the
MX1000 you've spent more only to get the same performance.

The G7 wireless (at the same 500 Hz as the G3 wired) costs $100
(Logitech's price; $72 at newegg.com)

Peanuts per year over 3 years its warranted for when the cost
of the rest of the gaming hardware per year is considered.

And buying a Lexus is just a few more dollars per day over a 7-year
loan than a more typical commuter car. But, hey, we're all rich and
can afford more for everything, right? A little more per-day cost for
gasoline. A little more per-day for food price hikes, especially
during droughts. A little more per-day for higher heating costs. A
little more per-day for higher tuition costs. A little more per-day
for a nicer lunch everyday. A little more per-day ... and on and on.
Really nice to have an unlimited budget, or maybe living with the
parents where they pay all the utilities and phone and they buy all
your food and give you a car to use along with paying the insurance so
you don't have all those expenses and can instead accumulate readily
expendable cash because someone else is carrying you. Really nice to
live alone in a self-centered lifestyle where you don't have kids or
other dependents, like aging parents with medical problems, so you can
spend all your money just on yourself. Some of us have lives and
responsibilities beyond our computers and other toys. Some of us
actually have limited incomes (i.e., we're not in the Hilton or Gates
families). Some of us don't want to blow money on unneeded or little
needed features and economics do come into play when we choose where
to spend our money.

So if buying a high-priced gaming mouse is so inconsequential to the
economics of building or upgrading a computer, just why are you
freeloading off of Google Gmail, huh? Why are you buying cheap NNTP
service ($12/yr) from individual.net when you could get a bigger
newsgroup provider that has all those binary groups and has far longer
retention times? You should be getting bigger and better because cost
is irrelevant (to you) and can be rationalized as pennies over some
long term versus the immediate out-of-pocket and up-front expense.
You should be using a real and paid e-mail service since it's just
pennies a day. If you're concerned about spam harvesting, you could
pay for Sneakemail (and not use their free service) or SpamEx because,
well, they're just pennies a day. You should be paying for a SpamCop
account since it's just pennies a day. You should be using the most
expensive NNTP service around because, hey, it's just more pennies a
day. Starting to get the gist that "just pennies a day" is a stupid
argument?

"Merrill P. L. Worthington" wrote in message
...

Rod Speed is a troll. Don't feed the troll.


Well, other than the few insults which were weak, I've been having
fun. I've had to go read up on Bluetooth, check on polling rates, and
done other research so I've learned more during the discussion. You
don't learn *more* if you agree with everything. If Rod is a troll,
he's not the worst and, of course, I've been called the same (in fact
in your prior reply, I thought you telling Rod that I was the troll
but I didn't care). If you agree, the conversation is over.

"CBFalconer" wrote in message
...
Vanguard wrote:
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
Vanguard wrote
wrote

Exactly why I quit using wireless mice (and keyboards). The
keyboard rarely moves anyway so what's the point of having it
wireless?

Mine moves a lot because I dont use it on a desktop.

You really think using a keyboard atop your lap is normal use
by the majority of wireless keyboard users?

You just generated 513 lines of troll food. Any time I see an
article that large I normally skip it, barring some especially
interesting author or subject. When it just feeds trolls there is
no question as to disposition.


Some say I'm the troll. Some say Rod is the troll. You bitch at
Merril. You bitch at the posts being too long for your attention
span. You don't participate in the discussion and instead just bitch
at every participant. You post with a superfluous signature (which is
not even your own quote but someone else's). Hmm, I think I know who
is the troll here.

Vanguard wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Vanguard wrote

Sometimes a wireless mouse makes good sense

Mostly, actually, you dont have the nuisance of the cable.

There is still a cable.

Pity you dont actually move what is on the end of that cable around much.

I think you're focusing on the device end and yet I have no nuisance with the
cord at the mouse end by making sure it doesn't snag or push against anything
when the mouse is moved.

Those of us with enough of a clue to put the mouse on the charger
every evening have even less trouble with the batterys in the mouse.

Sometimes it's just too hard to setup the desk so the cord is unfettered so a
cordless mouse is nicer *if* you're willing to tradeoff for the heavier
weight.

Most of us arent so puny that that is anything more than an academic difference.

Could be a justifiable tradeoff.

No could be about it.

But we don't know if the OP has such a cluttered desk that there really is a
problem with the cord; if so, he might also have a problem with the cord for
the receiver.

Nope, because the receiver doesnt get moved around like the mouse does.

Where my desks are so cluttered that cordless might justified, there is also
so little room to move the
mouse that it wouldn't matter if it was corded or not.

Even you should be able to do something about that.

For those, I use a trackball and it doesn't matter if it was corded or not
since the trackball never moves (so I go corded because it is cheaper to buy
and cheaper to replace).

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

Only real downside is that its easier to drop a wireless mouse.

I used to have a Kensington trackball so I didn't even have to pick up the
pointing device like you do with mice, except the kids kept taking the ball to
play with.

Hardly anyone prefers those to mice, and the OP clearly doesnt.

I found a pool shop where snooker balls were the same size so I bought half a
dozen. If the ball is missing now, I can usually find one laying around to
put into the trackball base.

You could have got radical and applied your boot to the kid's arses.

With a corded mouse, it doesn't wander off as easily as a cordless one (and
they've gone "walking off" at work, too).

If they're going to steal it, they'll steal anything.

One place a wireless mouse comes in handy is on shared hosts (or, at least,
on shared I/O devices to those hosts).

Yes, tho thats a less important factor here since
I use Synergy to share the mouse and keyboard
and have separate monitors on the switching that.

Useful if you have the room for all those monitors to let Synergy move the
mouse between them.

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to manage that too.

For a home user that has as many monitors as they have hosts (assuming they
have multiple hosts to qualify the need
for Synergy), that could be a lot of desktop real estate.

Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant drug crazed fantasys.

At work with hundreds of hosts in the lab, that many monitors would be an
impossibility.

Even someone as stupid as you should have
noticed that that aint the OP's situation.

When I used the plural "hosts", I meant many of them, not just 2.

Is this where we're sposed to swoon, child ?

"Synergy lets you easily share a single mouse and keyboard between multiple
computers ..., each with its own display".

While I might tolerate having multiple boxes around running one or
multiple operating systems at the same time via VMware or Xen, I
wouldn't want to require vast desktop or shelf space for all those monitors.

You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.

My real point was that THE mouse is a deliberate shared resource so cordless
means users can use it right- or left-handed as they pleased (provided you
actually get an *ambidexterous* cordless
mouse) regardless whether or not the mouse was shared amongst
monitors, through KVMs, for hosts at a test station, or whatever. The device
is shared by dozens of users so cordless made sense in that case.

Pity that aint the OP's situation either.

I run it around on an old A4 book cover on my lap, sometime
run it around on my chest when doing something simple mouse
wise for a moment with the keyboard on my lap.

Ah ha ha ha. Now that's a bad picture of a guy rolling a cordless
mouse around on his hairy chest. Okay, yeah, I know, you're wearing a shirt
but the image that popped up was funny.

Your problem, child.

At that point, if you're doing most of your computing from a recliner,

I'm not.

I would think one of those g-force mice or G-gloves that figures out how to
move the cursor by you waving it around in mid-air might be a better choice so
you don't need to contrive a surface for the mouse.

You've clearly never used one for long.

Yeah, pricier, but then economy doesn't seem crucial to your arguments

Yep, the cost of the mouse is peanuts in the cost of a gaming system.

(because you're only considering one host or workstation along with unlimited
funds).

Lying, as always when its got done like a dinner.

The only time wireless makes sense is if the system unit will be farther
away than the cord, but then wireless devices don't come with very long
cords, either.

Wrong again. The bluetooth devices can be used so far from
the system that you cant even read the monitor anymore.

What is the point of moving yourself far away from that large monitor

I dont do that, I use it in the same place as the smaller monitor used to be.

So you are still within the same range as a non-Bluetooth cordless
mouse. Blows the reason for bringing Bluetooth into the arguments.

Wrong, as always. YOU pig ignorantly ranted about cordless
mice getting out of range. If thats actually a problem, you
can use a bluetooth mouse so that never happens, stupid.

I don't recall ever seeing someone down the hallway waving their mouse
around.

Yes, but it does blow that silly claim you made about range completely
out of the water, and fixes the multiple channel problem completely too.

And so does using a corded mouse regarding [the lack of] interferrence between
mouse and keyboard users because there no such problem to have to deal with in
the first place.

Pity about the limitations on distance that the cord produces.

If Bluetooth was so great, why did it fail in the marketplace?

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.

You see Bluetooth engulfing the entire RF device market?

Irrelevant. Plenty of the cordless mice have sufficient range
without using bluetooth, and plenty of them arent used in a
situation where the unlimited number of channels is needed either.

Logitech currently has but a single Bluetooth cordless mouse

Yep, Logitech has lagged badly in that area.

(for use with a Bluetooth notebook or Apple Powerbook)

Wrong again.

which all of only doubled the 15-foot range to 30 feet (but then who uses
their cordless mouse more than a couple feet from their monitor excluding,
of course, the tiny minority of recliner-based users, like yourself?).

You were the one mindlessly rabbitting on about cordless
mice that cant even manage to do 3 feet reliably, child.

And I dont use a recliner either.

If it was the quintessential RF technology, why didn't it supplant all other
remote control RF technologies in the over 5 years since it's been around?

It has in most areas now.

Another use of Bluetooth is creating a 'piconet' (1 master + 7 slaves) ad-hoc
network. There can be 255 slaves but only 7 can be active at at time which
pretty much kills it for anything but a "personal" network (since the hubs,
routers, and other network devices
would get counted with the hosts in that 7-max active count).

Irrelevant to whether its useful if you do have a problem with interference
between multiple mice and systems with cretins in cubicles etc.

Even with 7 active slaves, the master can only communicate with 1 host at a
time in a round-robin scheme.

Irrelevant to whether its useful if you do have a problem with interference
between multiple mice and systems with cretins in cubicles etc.

Other "interferrence" could be hacking.

Completely trivial to avoid that and its no more than a nuisance with mice
anyway.

Despite encryption, it was shown over a year ago that pairing between
Bluetooth devices could be forced to let a outside Bluetooth device sneak into
your network
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06...h_mobo_attack/) and now
there's Bluesnarfing into Bluetooth phones
(http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/...luetooth.html).

No more than a nuisance with mice, you pathetic excuse for a bull**** artist.

I don't recall ever hearing or reading of anyone that was found wardriving
into corded mice or corded keyboards.

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

That Bluetooth has greater range but with the same distance between
cubicles or offices means greater chance of interference from other
Bluetooth devices (i.e., larger range with same density of users).

Wrong, as always.

"Bluetooth technology’s adaptive frequency hopping (AFH) capability
was designed to reduce interference between wireless technologies
sharing the 2.4 GHz spectrum. AFH works within the spectrum to take
advantage of the available frequency. This is done by detecting other
devices in the spectrum and avoiding the frequencies they are using."
Since they are sharing the same unlicensed 2.4Ghz ISM band as other RF
devices, and because it uses some adaptive "hopping" around to find
some bandwidth, seems the "interferrence" could simply be in getting
choked out from finding any available bandwidth.

You've clearly never used a bluetooth mouse.

It can hop amongst 79 frequencies, so in a high density populace of Bluetooth
users, like at some company enamored with the technology, it sure seems
plausible that its extended range for its sphere of connectivity could
encompass far more than just 79 different Bluetooth users.

Corse it is, they dont all have to have a different frequency, stupid.

So the interferrence problem is still an issue

Nope.

- but maybe not, as you mention, for the home user (i.e., the OP).

Not for your cretins in cubicles either.

Because it is still RF technology, it is still susceptible to EMF just like
your cordless telephone.

How odd that I dont actually see any problem
with my cordless phones, or with bluetooth either.

However, we're on a tangent with Bluetooth

Nope. You were the one stupidly pig ignorantly
rabbiting on about a problem with range and
the number of channels with cretins in cubicles.

since *NONE* of the gaming mice from Logitech in which the user is or would be
interested use Bluetooth.

There might just be more suppliers of bluetooth mice
around than Logitech, you pathet excuse for a bull**** artist.

Oh, of course, your response is "not in a properly configured system". You
can configure the "system" only within the limits of the settings that are
provided.

And those limits dont exist with bluetooth mice and keyboards.

Bluetooth has its limits, too.

Not as far as cretins in cubicles using bluetooth mice are concerned.

You are really claiming that it is ALWAYS possible to eliminate
interference with other Bluetooth and other RF devices?

Yep. Bluetooth has been designed from scratch to
handle multiple bluetooth sessions in close proximity.

If so, time to visit the US Patent Office with that discovery.

No point, its already been invented, its called bluetooth.

No, it's called EMF and it affects any RF device, including Bluetooth.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a ****ing clue about anything at all, ever.

I've yet to see one that notifies you BEFORE voltage gets too low to
affect behavior.

You need to get out more. The MX700 warns you so early that you
can continue to use it fine all day once it starts warning of a low
battery.

During gameplay, just where are you going to see that warning icon?

It isnt an icon, the led on the top of the mouse starts blinking slowly.

Even you would notice it.

That's good (that it uses the flash LED on the mouse). A picture of the
Logitech G7 gaming mouse is shown at
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/pr...ONTENTID=10716
(click the "Alternate Views" link). Just how are you going to see
that blinking LED through your hand that rests atop the mouse and
covers those LEDs?

Doesnt need to. Even you will have to take your hand off the
mouse occasionally and that only needs to be some time in the
day that you have forgotten to put the mouse on the charger routinely
when you stopped using the system the previous evening etc.

I'm assuming those red rectangles in the picture are the LEDs to which you
refer.

Stupid assumption, as always.

While using non-game applications, your mousing hand probably comes of the
mouse often enough, like when typing, so you would see the blinking LED.
During gameplay, your hand is on the mouse all the time.

No it isnt for the entire time that the mouse works fine with the
low battery indicator flashing, to remind you that you need to put
it on the charger when you stop using the system that evening.

Even someone as stupid as you would notice the flashing led when you
take your hand off the mouse before leaving the system, if it wasnt for
the fact that you have clearly wanked yourself completely blind.

The MX1000 shown at
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/pr...CONTENTID=9043
might have a better chance of some of the light leaking past your palm
so you might see its reflection on your desktop or mousepad ... maybe.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a ****ing clue about anything at all, ever.

I've never seen users watching their mouse.

You dont need to. The indicator is so obvious
that even you wouldnt be able to miss it.

So are the LEDs on the keyboard but users miss those, too.

THEY DONT FLASH, ****WIT.

"Why doesn't my password work? Oh, the CapsLock, thanks."

IT DOESNT FLASH, ****WIT.

Now Windows will even popup a prompt in case you type with the CapsLock on
because users still manage not to see the LED on the keyboard.

IT DOESNT FLASH, ****WIT.

The indicators are NOT in line-of-sight of the monitor, and many users
eventually learn to actually type so they don't have to peck around on the
keyboard or even look at the mouse or keyboard to use them, so some
systems are setup to display the Caps-, Scroll-, and NumLock on the
screen but they don't display during games (so a tray icon or popup
dialog for battery voltage won't be and should not be visible).

Irrelevant WHEN THE LOW BATTERY LED FLASHING
IS JUST A REMINDER TO PUT THE MOUSE IN THE
CHARGER WHEN YOU STOP USING THE SYSTEM.

Instead they watch the mouse cursor on the monitor, so it will be when
they experience erratic behavior that they might then check on battery
voltage but then it's low and they have to do something about it then.

Wrong again. You get the indication of low battery LONG before you
ever get any erratic behaviour with a properly designed wireless mouse.

And my mouse usage is determined by my work which has priority, not the other
way around.

Irrelevant to what is being discussed here.

I want to get my work done, not plan on when I need to replace batteries or
cradle the mouse during which I'm forced to be idle

THE LOW BATTERY LED FLASHING IS JUST A REMINDER
TO PUT THE MOUSE ON THE CHARGER WHEN YOU STOP
USING THE SYSTEM, IT ISNT NECESSARY TO STOP AND
CHARGE THE MOUSE, BECAUSE IT WILL RUN FINE ALL
DAY WITH THE LOW BATTERY LED FLASHING.

You cant actually be THAT thick, you're clearly flagrantly dishonest.

I really doubt the indicators are going to give me more than a day's notice

Doesnt need to, a day is enough.

but then I'm using my mouse all day long (and some of my days are very long).

You might not actually be alone there, child.

Rather than generalize,

I didnt generalise. I SAID VERY EXPLICTLY THAT
YOU CAN CONTINUE TO USE THE MOUSE ALL
DAY WITH THE LOW BATTERY LED FLASHING.

just how many hours does the indicator give you a low battery warning? If
it's 10 hours, how could the battery be so low that a warning is issued and
yet those low batteries are still usable for another 10 hours

Completely trivial, you start flashing the led when there is still a full
day's use available with a mouse that will go for days on a single charge.

(which presumably is FULL and CONTINUAL use during those 10 hours)?

Yep. And even you cant actually do that anyway.

Something will happen with the mouse behavior and then they will look at the
voltage indicator.

Wrong again. You cant miss the low battery
indication with a properly designed mouse.

Your hand is over those battery charge LEDs.

It isnt all day, cretin.

Those LEDs are not in line-of-sight.

Dont need to be if its bright enough and flashing, stupid.

Maybe you play your games in the dark which would help you see the reflection
of that blinking LED but maybe not in a well-lit room when using applications.

Thanks for that completely superfluous
proof that you have never actually used one.

Yes, you can miss the indicators down on the mouse just like you can miss them
on the keyboard.

THOSE ARENT HIGH INTENSITY FLASHING LEDS, cretin.

I focus on what is displayed on the monitor, not what is under my fingers.
That's why I learned to type so I don't have to
look down at my fingers, and I never look down at the mouse.

Even someone as stupid as you would notice the flashing led when you
take your hand off the mouse before leaving the system, if it wasnt for
the fact that you have clearly wanked yourself completely blind.

And when in the heat of solving problems or writing them up, I'm not going to
bother with blinking LEDs anymore than I'll bother with non-critical email
alerts. I'm busy so get out of my way.

THE FLASHING LED IS JUST A REMINDER TO PUT THE MOUSE
ON THE CHARGER WHEN YOU STOP USING THE SYSTEM.

Pity you dont have to, it will run fine for the rest of the day when its
showing a low battery indication.

It warns a day ahead that the battery is low?

Yep.

Then it really wasn't low, was it?

ITS WARNING THAT THE MOUSE NEEDS TO BE PUT ON
THE CHARGER WHEN YOU STOP USING THE SYSTEM.

Its JUST a reminder to put it on the charger when you are finished with it in
the evening,

Since Logitech says that battery life is 2 to 3 days for gaming mode then
what's the point of the reminder since you'll end up having to cradle the
mouse everyday in the first place?

ITS A REMINDER THAT YOU HAVE FAILED TO PUT
THE MOUSE ON THE CHARGER THE PREVIOUS TIME
TO TWO WHEN YOU STOPPED USING THE SYSTEM.

You certainly wouldn't want to wait until the end of the 2nd day to cradle
your mouse because it might be dead by then.

Wrong, as always.

So it is supposed to cradled everyday.

Wrong, as always. ITS A WARNING THAT YOU NEED TO PUT IT ON
THE CHARGER WHEN YOU STOP USING THE SYSTEM BECAUSE
IT WONT LAST ALL THE NEXT DAY TOO IF YOU DONT DO THAT.

No indicator needed for that.

Wrong as always.

You're ignoring the FACT that the low battery indication happens
A FULL DAY OF USE BEFORE IT NEEDS TO BE CHARGED.

Which means it is a useless warning because it isn't warning you when the
battery is actually low.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a ****ing clue about anything at all, ever.

A gas guage that reads low just after you filled it

Doesnt happen, you pathetic excuse for a bull**** artist.

or when it was still half full would get replaced.

ITS A WARNING THAT YOU NEED TO PUT THE MOUSE
ON THE CHARGER WHEN YOU STOP USING THE SYSTEM
BECAUSE IT LIKELY WONT GO THE WHOLE OF THE NEXT DAY.

Of course, when the mouse really was low, it gets low faster having to light
up those LEDs.

PITY IT CAN STILL WORK FINE ALL THAT DAY.

An LED that is lit all day long about low battery voltage is not an alert but
simply another visual cue that becomes less noticeable over the course of that
day; i.e., it's been on all day so its importance wanes.

Wota terminal ****wit.

Does perhaps the blinking rate change as the voltage gets lower so there is
some real indication of *remaining* battery life?

ITS A WARNING THAT YOU NEED TO PUT THE MOUSE
ON THE CHARGER WHEN YOU STOP USING THE SYSTEM
BECAUSE IT LIKELY WONT GO THE WHOLE OF THE NEXT DAY.

They'll know to replace the batteries or recharge when and after
the mouse starts behaving erratically, and by then voltage is too low.

Wrong, as always.

You're enamored with the LEDs and apparently are constantly watching them.

You couldnt bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

I never look at the mouse and keyboard because that would slow down my fingers
and mousing. Everything is hurried. I don't need to glancing all around to
check for indicators.

YOU DONT NEED TO DO THAT WITH A FLASHING LED
THAT JUST INDICATES HAT YOU NEED TO PUT THE MOUSE
ON THE CHARGER WHEN YOU STOP USING THE SYSTEM
BECAUSE IT LIKELY WONT GO THE WHOLE OF THE NEXT DAY.

I used to have an answering machine which blinked an LED when there new
messages (and it was cordless, too, which meant I had to have a wired phone
for when there were power outages since the base was dead for the cordless
telephone).

Even someone as stupid as you should have been
able to work out that it should be on the UPS.

With all the other blinking indicators, some of which represent a "good"
state, for all the equipment in my cubicle and on
my desk, I never saw that I had new messages.

Because you have wanke yourself blind.
You were warned, you wouldnt listen...

I replaced it with one that would blink an LED *and* would beep once a minute
so I got an audible alert since obviously I wasn't going to glare at my
telephone nor do I want to be bothered having to repeatedly glance over at it.
I don't need my focus drawn away from my work, or from my game.

Some of us actually have enough of a clue to plug the
cordless phone into the UPS and to have the base where
its convenient for putting the handset on it, where the blinking
led cant be missed and actually have enough of a clue to
check the led when they return to the seat after being away etc.

Dont need to with a properly designed low battery indicator.

Properly designed this. Properly designed that. Boring.

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

Unless the LED is in my face, I'm not going to see it.

You've clearly never actually used a properly designed
cordless mouse with a properly designed low battery indicator.

That's not where is my focus. Distraction wastes time.

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

My car radio's display could be flashing swear words but I'd never know since
I'm watching the road unlike the idiot prattling into a cell phone, playing
with his radio, while eating their lunch and using their knees to steer.

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

I don't multitask in my car.

Everyone does, there isnt any other way to do it.

I do multitask my sight at work and home but ONLY with what is on the monitor,
not with what is under my fingers.

You've clearly never actually used a properly designed
cordless mouse with a properly designed low battery indicator.

Even you'd notice, even tho you have clearly wanked yourself blind.

And you are way too easily distracted from your work or game,

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

and probably are sitting in an overly dark room

Guess which pathetic little pig ignorant prat has
just got egg all over its silly little face, yet again ?

while tiring your eyes from the dilator muscle constantly opening the iris

Guess which pathetic little pig ignorant prat has
just got egg all over its silly little face, yet again ?

but which lets you perhaps more easily see one particular reflection of a
blinking LED under your hand.

Guess which pathetic little pig ignorant prat has
just got egg all over its silly little face, yet again ?

If an active indicator (visual or audible) doesn't require attention now, it
gets ignored.

You've clearly never actually used a properly designed
cordless mouse with a properly designed low battery indicator.

Urgency of alerts wanes if they are continuous or extended.

You've clearly never actually used a properly designed
cordless mouse with a properly designed low battery indicator.

I have better things to do at the time, like doing my work or playing that
engrossing game.

Wanking yourself completely blind, actually.

Also, the polling rate for wireless mices is much slower.

Wrong again.

Yep, you are right - for GAMING mice. Some examples:

Typical cordless mouse: 125 Hz
Typical corded mouse: 200 Hz
Logitech MX1000 cordless mouse: Logitech doesn't say
Logitech G7 Laser cordless mouse: 500 Hz
Razer Copperhead cordless mouse: 1000 Hz

Logitech doesn't list the reports/sec (Hz) polling rate for the
MX1000. Since they advertise the G7 as their gaming mouse then the
MX1000 is probably something less, like 200 Hz which puts it
equivalent to the corded mice.

So if there are wireless gaming mice, there aren't wired gaming mice?

Because all wired mice have an adequate polling rate.

Well, 200 Hz is usually good enough but then your arguments, so far, have been
against just "good enough".

Lying, as always.

If 200 Hz (5 ms) was all that was needed,

Never ever said anything even remotely resembling anything like that.

why do the "gaming" mice go up to 1000 Hz (for a 1ms poll interval), corded or
cordless?

Having fun thrashing that straw man are you child ?

The first tweak I do for the mouse is to max its polling rate. 200 Hz (5 ms)
is fast but not fast enough for some gamers. Higher polling rates mean less
reliance on interpolation for very fast mouse movement. While some users
don't have the room to zoom their mouse all the way across their desk in a
second to represent fast movement over a long distance as can be done
by smacking a freely moving trackball, they still may need to make
extremely quick jerks in movement. A higher polling rate means a more
accurate representation of the actual movement of the pointing device.

Gone blind yet child ?

After trialing several wireless mice, I decided I liked the much
lighter corded mice due to the lack of weight for the batteries.

Your problem. So you clearly arent in any position to say
anything useful about how suitable they are for gaming,
or anything else at all about them either. You clearly dont
actually have a clue about the basics with a low battery
indicator with a properly designed wireless mouse either.

Yep, back to the "properly designed" claim. Yep, what I prefer after actually
trialing several is of no consequence in my decision as to what I will use.
You like heavy mice,

Lying, as always.

so by the same argument, that must also mean that you are in no position to
say anything useful about non-wireless mice or keyboards and that you clearly
don't actually have a clue about the basics of ergonomics, economics, and of
being focused on your work or game. Yep, just as dumb an insult as was yours.

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

I use my mouse a LOT over long continuous hours of use.

So do I, and I bet its more than you do too.

I work from 8AM to 6PM.

Pathetic, really. Guess who just won that bet child ?

And I do mean work and not taking breaks because my mouse battery got low.

Neither do I child.

Then I go home and program, discuss, play games, or VPN back to work, and
that's on the weekends,
too, all the while trying to be Dad and spouse, too.

You'll have to pardon us if we dont actually swoon, child.

Personally I'd love to get away from the computer but in software QA there are
too many technologies that get incorporated into enterprise products to keep
up with with the limited manpower available.

Let go of it before you end up completely blind, child.

Casual users probably won't mind. I'm arguing for less stress and less
fatigue. You're arguing for more of these.

Wrong again. I get no stress and no fatigue with my wireless
mouse, even tho its is certainly heavier than the corded mice,
and I dont just run it around on the tabletop either.

It's heavier but doesn't require more effort than moving a lighter mouse.

I'm not some puny weakling, child.

It's heavier but it doesn't incur more strain than moving a lighter mouse.

I'm not some puny weakling, child.

Yeah, really believable arguments those ... not.

I'm not some puny weakling, child.

You must be extremely puny if you cant manage a wireless mouse.

For short use, like a couple hours, you might not mind.

I dont mind when I use it for 20+ hours thanks.

And I can go without eating for several days. And I can go without sleep for
84 hours.

You'll have to pardon us if we dont actually swoon, child.

That's not important because those are not repeat events since if they were
I'd die from starvation while halucinating.

Wrong, as always.

It's repeated use that causes strain.

Only for puny weaklings.

Anyone can do small feats of strength or endurance for short periods or for
one-time occurrences.

Pig ignorantly assuming again, child.

Big deal. And don't give us some lame claim that you only sleep 1 hour per
night since 20+ hours is MORE than 20 hours, you still have to drive from home
from work,

Guess which pathetic little know it all child has just
got egg all over its pathetic little face, yet again ?

you still have to drive from work to home,

Guess which pathetic little know it all child has just
got egg all over its pathetic little face, yet again ?

you still have to eat, you still have to ****

Even someone as stupid as you should be able
to work out how to do all those in 3.x hours, child.

(although that could be multitasked with eating, shaving, and brushing your
teeth, I suppose),

Or I could have enough of a clue to not bother with some of those, child.

so after all those hours you would have maybe an hour to sleep. Yeah, right,
you're Superman, sure.

Any 2 year old could leave that for dead, child.

The same is true for the newbies that start working in computer rooms and
don't wear ear protectors because, well, gee, all the fans don't seem to be
that loud.

Some of us have enough of a clue to assemble quiet systems.

Yeah, right, YOU assembled all those main- and mid-frames, those Solaris Sparc
boxes, those HP and AIX machines, those blade servers, all that air
conditioning, yeah, right, sure.

Only a fool sits next to those for long, child.

Geez, you think building little Wintel boxes equates to a $7M test lab and a
$80M computer room?

Only a fool sits next to those for long, child.

You just admitted that you have NEVER worked in a computer room.

Guess which pathetic little know it all child has just
got egg all over its pathetic little face, yet again ?

A closet or cubicle with half a dozen PCs, or a test station with a dozen
Wintel and Linux hosts, does not a computer room make.

Guess which pathetic little know it all child has just
got egg all over its pathetic little face, yet again ?

Some are much better than others but then most folks don't go
switching between them and wired mice often enough to see the
small jerkiness in movement that remains with wireless mice, or
they play undemanding and slow games.

You clearly havent tried a decent gaming wireless mouse.

Paying 5 times the price didn't make economical sense.

Mindlessly silly. Even the most expensive wireless mice cost
peanuts per year for the 7 years they are warranted for.

And we should all appreciate paying higher gasoline prices because, well, it's
only dollars more per year over the few years of the car's warranty

Pathetic, really.

(as if the warranty somehow ever came into play regarding ROI or
depreciation).

Still peanuts per year, child. And MUCH less than
the cost of the rest of that gaming system, child.

4GB of memory is only a few pennies more over the decades that it will last
but it still represents more money as a chunk that has to paid out-of-pocket
for your home PC all at once and up front to actually get that memory. Why
bother pricing out computer systems since, well, even a $500 difference in
price is just a quarter per day over 5 years (some other nebulously derived
term of life). Sales people love to hide cost by pointing out how little it is
over some arbitrary term.

The OP didnt appear to be that concerned about price, child.

Even a desperate pov like you should be able to manage that.

Yeah, and of course every desparate pov never bothers with free e-mail
services (hmm, guess you must be a desparate pov since you use Gmail),
or use free NNTP servers, or install free software, or get free whatever.

Pity about the cordless mice, child.

And, of course, every desparate pov always wants to blow wads of money on
computer gear without regard to impact on reserves for when something really
critical pops up.

Some of us might actually have so much money
available that we can buy dozens of what the
OP asked about without even turning a hair, child.

Oh yeah, you're talking just about a mouse but your rationale applies to
everything since all those extra expenses are just pennies a day. Since your
money means so little to you, how about sending a wad of it to the OP?

Because he appears to be able to afford to pay for it himself, child.

After all, it's just pennies to you. Yeah, I remember being young and stupid
when money used to burn a hole through my pockets. Then I got married and had
children so my priorities changed from being a self-centered egotistic
money-wasting unplanning idiot.

And some of us might well be old enough
to be your father or grandfather, child.

Of course no one thinks of economics when buying their computers. Uh huh.

Only fools like you obscess about the cost of the mouse when the
gaming system being discussed costs a lot more than that, child.

In spades when you consider the cost of the rest of the gaming hardware.

I can also get a decent gaming WIRED mouse, too. Logitech G3 wired mouse at
$60 (Logitech's price; $47 at newegg.com).

I did NOT include the MX1000 because "cordless performance that equals USB
corded connection" (Logitech's description) means it runs as the measly 125
Hz,

You dont know that.

But you should know yet you didn't even bother to look and mention it.

Pathetic, really.

The "gaming" mouse has a 500 Hz polling rate, or higher. The standard
PS/2 mouse can go up to 200 Hz. Since Logitech doesn't label their
MX1000 as a "gaming mouse" then it is something with LESS performance.

You dont know that.

They sell their G7 model as something MORE appropriate to gaming than their
MX1000 model. So the MX100 is under 500 Hz and maybe more than 200 Hz.

You dont know that.

You could look, really you can. Use Device Management
(devmgmt.msc) to check what is the polling rate for your mouse device.
Then you could illuminate the rest of us as to what is the maximum
polling rate configurable for the MX1000. Otherwise, you're just
guessing, too, but at least I had some info to back up my guess.

No you dont, you've just got your dick in your hand, as always.

and even my wired non-gaming mouse can do 200 Hz.

You dont know that its any worse than that.

The typical polling rate is 125 Hz for a USB mouse. That is what
Windows sets the for the device as the default polling rate. "The
MX1000 equals a USB mouse." The default polling rate is 125 Hz.

Pathetic, really.

Not much of a leap there as to what the default polling rate is for the
MX1000. Sure you could probably up the polling rate, but you can do
that for the wired mouse, too. So the MX1000 doesn't have a polling
rate any higher - unless you show otherwise - than a wired mouse ...
and even a non-gaming wired mouse can be set to 200 Hz. So with the
MX1000 you've spent more only to get the same performance.

Pathetic, really.

The G7 wireless (at the same 500 Hz as the G3 wired) costs $100 (Logitech's
price; $72 at newegg.com)

Peanuts per year over 3 years its warranted for when the cost
of the rest of the gaming hardware per year is considered.

And buying a Lexus is just a few more dollars per day over a 7-year loan than
a more typical commuter car.

Pathetic, really.

But, hey, we're all rich and can afford more for everything, right? A little
more per-day cost for gasoline. A little more per-day for food price hikes,
especially during droughts. A little more per-day for higher heating costs.
A little more per-day for higher tuition costs. A little more per-day for a
nicer lunch everyday. A little more per-day ... and on and on. Really nice to
have an unlimited budget, or maybe living with the parents where they pay all
the utilities and phone and they buy all your food and give you a car to use
along with paying the insurance so
you don't have all those expenses and can instead accumulate readily
expendable cash because someone else is carrying you. Really nice to
live alone in a self-centered lifestyle where you don't have kids or
other dependents, like aging parents with medical problems, so you can
spend all your money just on yourself. Some of us have lives and
responsibilities beyond our computers and other toys. Some of us
actually have limited incomes (i.e., we're not in the Hilton or Gates
families). Some of us don't want to blow money on unneeded or little
needed features and economics do come into play when we choose where
to spend our money.

Pathetic, really.

So if buying a high-priced gaming mouse is so inconsequential to the economics
of building or upgrading a computer, just why are you freeloading off of
Google Gmail, huh?

Because it filters quite effectively without any effort on my part, child.

Why are you buying cheap NNTP service ($12/yr) from individual.net when you
could get a bigger newsgroup provider that has all those binary groups

Because I'm not stupid enough to use binary groups, child.

and has far longer retention times?

I dont need anything like the retention times it has, child.

You should be getting bigger and better

Nothing is bigger or better that I actually need, child.

because cost is irrelevant (to you) and can be rationalized as pennies over
some long term versus the immediate out-of-pocket and up-front expense. You
should be using a real and paid e-mail service

You dont know that I dont, child.

Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed
the advantage of more than one email address, child.

since it's just pennies a day. If you're concerned about spam harvesting,

I'm not, child. I dont even bother to mung the address, child.

you could pay for Sneakemail (and not use their free service) or SpamEx
because, well, they're just pennies a day. You should be paying for a SpamCop
account since it's just pennies a day. You should be using the most expensive
NNTP service around because, hey, it's just more pennies a
day. Starting to get the gist that "just pennies a day" is a stupid argument?

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
...
Most of us arent so puny that that is anything more than an academic
difference.

Yes, Ron is Superman. Weight is academic to Ron.

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

Yes, Ron's replies are always so mature.

Hardly anyone prefers those to mice, and the OP clearly doesnt.

Read the original post and notice trackballs were never discussed by
the OP. Ron has made himself the OP because what he wants must be
what the OP wants.

You could have got radical and applied your boot to the kid's arses.

We see how well that worked with Ron. Yeah, advice from a single,
never married male who gets to use all of his domicle for his
egocentric needs.

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to manage that too.

Ron is a member of Mensa. Everyone that disagrees with him is stupid
and everyone that agrees is, ahem, as smart as he.

Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant drug crazed
fantasys.

Repeated from his last posts. Ron just can't come up with new
insults.

Even someone as stupid as you should have
noticed that that aint the OP's situation.

Ron can't distinguish between the OP and himself to realize when
replies are directed to him and not to the OP.

You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly
irrelevant.

If you disagree with Ron, you must be irrelevant. Uh huh.

Pity that aint the OP's situation either.

You aren't the OP, Ron.

Your problem, child.

Yeah, that must it, Ron. Uh huh, sure. Do you feel better now?

Wrong, as always. YOU pig ignorantly ranted about cordless
mice getting out of range. If thats actually a problem, you
can use a bluetooth mouse so that never happens, stupid.

Ron wants to insult so badly that grammer becomes irrelevant. I never
said there was a problem in getting to far away as regards
reliability. I discussed how the range, even greater with Bluetooth,
still results in interferrence for RF devices.

Pity about the limitations on distance that the cord produces.

Especially since most users never get any further away with cordless
mice than they do with corded mice.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant
fantasys [that Bluetooth failed in the marketplace].

Ron is enthralled with the clipboard since he simply pastes the same
insult over and over. Lack of originality.

You see Bluetooth engulfing the entire RF device market?

Irrelevant.

Ron proves his level of intelligence. Doesn't matter if anyone else
wants it. It must be the quintessential technology if Ron wants it.

You were the one mindlessly rabbitting on about cordless
mice that cant even manage to do 3 feet reliably, child.

So Ron decides to evade by claiming that I discussed unreliability in
operation as opposed to the original topic of interferrence.

Irrelevant to whether its useful if you do have a problem with
interference
between multiple mice and systems with cretins in cubicles etc.

So not only is Ron a single, never married male with responsibilities
beyond his own egocentric needs, he doesn't work, either (to become
one of those cretins in cubicles).

No more than a nuisance with mice, you pathetic excuse for a
bull**** artist.

Oh, the pain, oh, the inhumanity. I am now devastated for sure.

I don't recall ever hearing or reading of anyone that was found
wardriving into corded mice or corded keyboards.

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

Copy & paste strikes again, and of the same incomplete sentence.

No, it's called EMF and it affects any RF device, including
Bluetooth.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a ****ing clue about anything at all, ever.

Well, Ron wins. Less and less content, more and more *attempts* to
insult and berate. Just too boring to bother with anymore.

Vanguard wrote
Rod Speed wrote

reams of your desperate attempts to bull**** your way out of your predicament
that fools absolutely no one at all, as always, flushed where it belongs

Whoops, nothing left.

Wota surprise.