1st PC build

Rod Speed wrote:

Assuming the version of XP Pro you have is a full retail version then that
will be fine. If it's an OEM licence then you cannot transfer it to a new PC -
it sucks, but it's the rules.

That is just what MS claims, he never signed up to any such 'rule'

I don't want to get in to another "is this legally enforceable or not"
thread. Fact is this has never been tried in court, and you are very
very unlikely to be prosecuted for it - however, in Microsoft's eyes you
are not licensed if you use an OEM licence on a different PC.

What the OP chooses to do about that is his business - I'm just flagging
up the issue.

Alex

Alex Harrington wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Assuming the version of XP Pro you have is a full retail version
then that will be fine. If it's an OEM licence then you cannot
transfer it to a new PC - it sucks, but it's the rules.

That is just what MS claims, he never signed up to any such 'rule'

I don't want to get in to another "is this legally enforceable or not" thread.
Fact is this has never been tried in court,

For one very very simple reason, MS knows that it aint legally enforceable.

and you are very very unlikely to be prosecuted for it

Not a chance, actually.

- however, in Microsoft's eyes you are not licensed if you use an OEM licence
on a different PC.

Irrelevant to the law on that.

What the OP chooses to do about that is his business - I'm just flagging up
the issue.

It isnt an 'issue'

Pay no attention to the troll....


Rod Speed wrote:

Vanguard wrote

wrote


I've never been fond of wireless keyboards and mice
because of the basic need to keep them powered.


Completely routine when they are properly designed.


Routine if properly designed. Still annoying to change the battery when
you really have better things to do. Even if it takes 10 seconds, it's
simply not an issue with a wired keyboard. And 10 seconds means
something in games.


Exactly why I quit using wireless mice (and keyboards). The keyboard
rarely moves anyway so what's the point of having it wireless?


Mine moves a lot because I dont use it on a desktop.


The only time wireless makes sense is if the system unit will be farther away
than the cord, but then wireless devices don't come with very long cords,
either.


Wrong again. The bluetooth devices can be used so far from
the system that you cant even read the monitor anymore.


I've yet to see one that notifies you BEFORE voltage gets too low to affect
behavior.


You need to get out more. The MX700 warns you so early that you
can continue to use it fine all day once it starts warning of a low battery.

And it charges fast enough so that even a coffee break is enough
to turn the led off, and it will fully charge over lunch too.


Remember when inside a game that you won't see a tray icon that may show you
voltage level of the batteries


That particular mouse he asked about has a 4
level battery level indicator on the mouse itself.


(and I've yet to see such a tray icon


Again, you need to get out more. The Logitechs have that.


which means you have to periodically go check using the Control Panel applet).


Not with that one he asked about. And its got a
4 level charge indicator on the mouse anyway.


Also, the polling rate for wireless mices is much slower.


Wrong again.


You might try to up the sampling rate and buffer size but that won't affect
the polling rate between the wireless mouse and the receiver.


Not a problem with a properly designed system.


I've tried 7 wireless mice from IBM, Microsoft, Logitech, and a couple of the
low-name brands and ALL were more jerky in gameplay than a wired mouse.


You clearly didnt try the MX700.


Some are much better than others but then most folks don't go
switching between them and wired mice often enough to see the small jerkiness
in movement that remains with wireless mice, or they play undemanding and slow
games.


You clearly havent tried a decent gaming wireless mouse.


Wireless mice never have the longevity claimed by the mouse manufacturer.


Mine hasnt failed and its been years now.


I found the Logitech are more responsive than IBM or Microsoft but that's
because the Logitech doesn't go to sleep as often


Doesnt go to sleep at all when its being used.


and it also wakes up faster, and I've found Logitech to be less jerky (but
still jerkier than wired but tolerable and probably not noticable by lots of
users).


It isnt jerky at all with the MX700.


And because they're less reliable than wired keyboards,


Pure drivel.


EVERYTHING wireless is vunelrable to inteferece and limits of range. Cell
phones are less reliable than land lines, cable is more reliable than rabbit
ears and sattellite. Reliability is sacrificed to portability. At a
pricehike.


That isn't the only problem.


It doesnt actually happen with a properly designed system.


Wireless mice are supposed to have a working range of up to 15 feet. True and
not true. Some won't work if the mouse if more than 3 feet away from the
receiver.


Anyone with a clue gets one with a much better
range than that if they need that. Bluetooth works
so far that you cant read the monitor anymore.


Be careful what you place between the receiver and mouse. Yes, RF mice don't
need line-of-sight but hiding the receiver on the other side of a metallic
system case or behind a monitor can result in poor reception.


Even you should be able to avoid that situation.


There is also the problem of one wireless mouse affecting another.


Not with a properly designed system.


Since working range if 15 feet, in a company setting with cublicles
and offices close together, one user will wonder why their mouse
cursor is moving without touching the mouse. It's interference from
another user. Hell, in one case at work, we found the culprit
conflicting mouse was up one floor and 50 feet over (so obviously the
working range happened to be pretty far). We managed to correct that
problem but you can't always find different channels on which to set
the wireless mice so they won't interfere, and most only give you 2
"channels". In a home environment


Which just happens to be the situation being discussed.


with just one computer, this interference isn't a problem (unless you're in an
apartment near the same wall where the next tenant also has their computer and
wireless mouse),


It has to be the same system too.


but then 2 channels is probably sufficient when to resync the devices to
eliminate the interference.


For wireless mice, and because they don't last that long, now they're making
cradles to keep the batteries recharged (to hide the poor longevity).


Nope, because thats more convenient than farting around changing batterys.

You've likely noticed cordless phones use the same system.


Some, like IBM and Microsoft, make the mouse go to sleep sooner and wake up
slower (than Logitech) in an attempt to increase
battery life. When you game a lot, the batteries deplete much faster
because there are no low-power use times (notice the LED will flicker
between high and low power modes if you have a wireless mouse with
translucent sides). Also, if you use a dark mouse pad or surface then
the batteries deplete faster, and most mouse pads are dark and so are
most desktop surfaces. If you use your mouse for word processing for
6 hours per day at work the batteries will last a lot longer than if
you play games for those same 6 hours.


The Logitechs all last more than a day even when the batterys
have aged considerably so that is completely academic.


Also remember that wireless mice weigh more than wired mice.


I dont care. Its weight is fine anyway.


Why? Because of the weight of the batteries. If you choose to use a mouse
(instead of a trackball), you will invariably end up having to lift
the mouse over and over to reposition it on the mouse pad or desktop.


Even a weakling like you should be able to manage that fine.


Yeah, you could up the acceleration and speed but then you loose granularity
and control. So how do you pick up the mouse for all that repositioning? By
squeezing it between your fingers (thumb and pinky usually).


Wrong again.


Your pinky can get tired after hours and hours of mouse use, especially with a
heavier mouse that has to house batteries.


Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.


If you can arrange that the cord is unfettered so it doesn't snag and also
doesn't hit anything (to eliminate torqueing on the mouse from restricted cord
movement), a wired mouse is much less effort to move over extended periods of
use.


Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.


My fingers got sore from prolonged use of a wireless mouse because of the
extra weight.


Not everyone is a puny as you.


I also don't go deliberately looking for keyboards that have the hardest keys
to press, either.


Not everyone is a puny as you.


Wireless mice are pricier. Break a wired one and its replacement is cheap.
Break or lose a wireless mouse and you'll waste time hunting around for a
better price or rethinking your original choice.


So dont break it, stupid.


Also consider the expense of batteries.


No thanks, I had enough of a clue to get one with a charging cradle.


Unless you get one with a cradle, you will need to buy lots of alkaline
batteries


Only fools are actually that stupid.


or you will need to get the rechargeable batteries (that don't last a long per
charge as the single-use of non-rechargeables) along with a charger.


Anyone with a clue buys one with a charging cradle.


If you get one with a recharging cradle, you'll get ****ed off everytime you
leave the computer to come back to find that you forgot to cradle your
wireless mouse when you left, and now your mouse is still dead while you wait
for it to charge.


You've clearly never used one. A properly designed one will
go for days between charges, will give enough of a warning
about low battery that you can still use it all day and put it on
the charger when you stop using it that night, and will recharge
fully during the lunch break etc anyway.


And getting a wireless mouse does NOT reduce the number of cords, anyway.


It does where the cords matter, at the keyboard and mouse.


You're still stuck with the corded receiver.


Since you never move that around, thats irrelevant.


Most users get wireless mice because it's a fad, cool, more technology, or
newer, not because they need wireless.


You can make the same stupid claim about the PC too.


Wired keyboards just work. Wireless ones have to be babysat.


Likewise when battery level goes low, you'll start to hear users in
the cubicles start swearing and banging harder on the keys until you wander
over to have a check and then replace the batteries.


Not everyone has to deal with cretins in cubicles.


There are good reasons of when or why to get wireless devices.
However, few of them come into play for users that choose them.


Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

Pay no attention to the troll. In this case, like most others, he is wrong.


Rod Speed wrote:

Alex Harrington wrote

wrote


I am planning to build my first computer. It will mainly serve as a gaming
computer, as well a school tool. The OS will be Windows XP Pro (from my old
computer).


Assuming the version of XP Pro you have is a full retail version then that
will be fine. If it's an OEM licence then you cannot transfer it to a new PC -
it sucks, but it's the rules.


That is just what MS claims, he never signed up to any such 'rule'


I'll chip in on the wireless keyboard/mouse thing. I had a pair of
Creative keyboard/mouse sets and they were nothing but trouble. Back
to wired now. I have however used newer wireless mice that are fine
and last ages. Read the reviews, spend yer money, takes yer pick!


Some of use bought a decent system and would never go back to wired.

The troll is in error again by trying to practice law. Pay no attention
to the troll.



Rod Speed wrote:

Alex Harrington wrote

Rod Speed wrote


Assuming the version of XP Pro you have is a full retail version
then that will be fine. If it's an OEM licence then you cannot
transfer it to a new PC - it sucks, but it's the rules.


That is just what MS claims, he never signed up to any such 'rule'


I don't want to get in to another "is this legally enforceable or not" thread.
Fact is this has never been tried in court,


For one very very simple reason, MS knows that it aint legally enforceable.


and you are very very unlikely to be prosecuted for it


Not a chance, actually.


- however, in Microsoft's eyes you are not licensed if you use an OEM licence
on a different PC.


Irrelevant to the law on that.


What the OP chooses to do about that is his business - I'm just flagging up
the issue.


It isnt an 'issue'

"Merrill P. L. Worthington" wrote:

Pay no attention to the troll....

.... snip quote from Ron Speed ...

Then why do you top-post and quote the whole ugly mess?

--
Some informative links:
news:news.announce.newusers
http://www.geocities.com/nnqweb/
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html
http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html

"Merrill P. L. Worthington" wrote in message
...

Pay no attention to the troll....


Don't be so hard on yourself.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Vanguard wrote
wrote

Exactly why I quit using wireless mice (and keyboards). The
keyboard
rarely moves anyway so what's the point of having it wireless?

Mine moves a lot because I dont use it on a desktop.

You really think using a keyboard atop your lap is normal use by the
majority of wireless keyboard users?

Sometimes a wireless mouse makes good sense but not so much for a
wireless keyboard. One place a wireless mouse comes in handy is on
shared hosts (or, at least, on shared I/O devices to those hosts). I
use the mouse on the leftside of the keyboard although I am
right-handed because that lets me extend my arm straight forward
rather than at an angle due to lopsided keyboards (with the arrow and
number pads on the right). Other users want it on the right side of
the keyboard. So being wireless makes it trivial to position the
mouse on either side of the keyboard for multiple users. However,
that is not how most wireless mice are used; i.e., they have a single
user.

The only time wireless makes sense is if the system unit will be
farther away than the cord, but then wireless devices don't come
with very long cords, either.

Wrong again. The bluetooth devices can be used so far from
the system that you cant even read the monitor anymore.

What is the point of moving yourself far away from that large monitor
for which you paid extra so it is the equivalent of a much cheaper and
smaller monitor? I don't recall ever seeing someone down the hallway
waving their mouse around. I haven't seen anyone positioning the
mouse and keyboard much more than 1 to 3 feet from the monitor
monitor. Yes, I know, gimmickry sells.

Bluetooth is not just used for wireless mice. It's used for
networking, too. Just Google on the problems with RF interference
when using Bluetooth. That guy down the hallway waving his Bluetooth
mouse around and using binoculars to see his monitor will also have
interference problems. Oh, of course, your response is "not in a
properly configured system". You can configure the "system" only
within the limits of the settings that are provided. You are really
claiming that it is ALWAYS possible to eliminate interference with
other Bluetooth and other RF devices? If so, time to visit the US
Patent Office with that discovery.

I've yet to see one that notifies you BEFORE voltage gets too low
to affect behavior.

You need to get out more. The MX700 warns you so early that you
can continue to use it fine all day once it starts warning of a low
battery.

During gameplay, just where are you going to see that warning icon?
If it flashes up a warning dialog, it will screw up the resolution of
the game, interrupt the game to pop you back to the desktop, and upon
returning
to the game you may not be able to restore a usable screen.
Indicators on the mouse, tray icons, and warning dialogs, all to
overcome or forestall the inevitable problem of failing battery
charge.

Yes, the particular wireless mouse that the OP mentioned may have an
indicator of battery life. So is the user actually monitoring that
indicator during gameplay or while working to figure out just when
they will have to plan for the temporary outage so they can replace
the batteries without interfering with their later use of the or
continue their work? I've never seen users watching their mouse.
Instead they watch the mouse cursor on the monitor, so it will be when
they experience erratic behavior that they might then check on battery
voltage but then it's low and they have to do something about it then.
Something will happen with the mouse behavior and then they will look
at the voltage indicator. Hell, most users never notice the CapsLock
LED on their keyboard is lit until they notice they get all caps, then
they look.

And it charges fast enough so that even a coffee break is enough
to turn the led off, and it will fully charge over lunch too.

Must be nice to have such a slow work schedule (or personal schedule).
Having to wait around 15 minutes let alone an hour is not tolerable.
I doubt the mouse will just happen to get low when it happens to be
lunch or break time. I wasn't looking to deliberately generate
interruptions in my game play or for other use of my computers or a
reason to slack off at work. Yeah, boss, gotta take an early/late
lunch because my mouse isn't charged up.

Remember when inside a game that you won't see a tray icon that may
show you voltage level of the batteries

That particular mouse he asked about has a 4
level battery level indicator on the mouse itself.

Which the user won't be monitoring while playing a game or when
engrossed in their work. They'll know to replace the batteries or
recharge when and after the mouse starts behaving erratically, and by
then voltage is too low. Keyboards have had ScrollLock, NumLock, and
CapsLock LEDs for decades and yet they don't monitor them until after
something doesn't behave as expected.

(and I've yet to see such a tray icon

Again, you need to get out more. The Logitechs have that.

I didn't say no tray icon was provided. Yep, if you cannot argue the
point, chop it up so it looks like they said something else.

Not with that one he asked about. And its got a
4 level charge indicator on the mouse anyway.

Yeah, you made that point already. Do you actually watch your mouse
as you move it around and click on its buttons?

Also, the polling rate for wireless mices is much slower.

Wrong again.

Yep, you are right - for GAMING mice. Some examples:

Typical cordless mouse: 125 Hz
Typical corded mouse: 200 Hz
Logitech MX1000 cordless mouse: Logitech doesn't say
Logitech G7 Laser cordless mouse: 500 Hz
Razer Copperhead cordless mouse: 1000 Hz

Logitech doesn't list the reports/sec (Hz) polling rate for the
MX1000. Since they advertise the G7 as their gaming mouse then the
MX1000 is probably something less, like 200 Hz which puts it
equivalent to the corded mice. So if there are wireless gaming mice,
there aren't wired gaming mice? I've heard of programs, like USB
Mouserate Switcher, than can up the polling rate to 1000 Hz. While
Logitech has their wireless G7 gaming mouse, they also have their
wired G7 gaming mouse for those not wanting the extra weight of
batteries and the nuisances that batteries incur. So, yes, I was
wrong that the polling rate is worse for wireless mice. It just isn't
any better than wired mice.

You might try to up the sampling rate and buffer size but that
won't affect the polling rate between the wireless mouse and the
receiver.

Not a problem with a properly designed system.

I've tried 7 wireless mice from IBM, Microsoft, Logitech, and a
couple of the low-name brands and ALL were more jerky in gameplay
than a wired mouse.

You clearly didnt try the MX700.

After trialing several wireless mice, I decided I liked the much
lighter corded mice due to the lack of weight for the batteries. I
use my mouse a LOT over long continuous hours of use. Casual users
probably won't mind. I'm arguing for less stress and less fatigue.
You're arguing for more of these. For short use, like a couple hours,
you might not mind. The same is true for the newbies that start
working in computer rooms and don't wear ear protectors because, well,
gee, all the fans don't seem to be that loud.

Some are much better than others but then most folks don't go
switching between them and wired mice often enough to see the small
jerkiness in movement that remains with wireless mice, or they play
undemanding and slow games.

You clearly havent tried a decent gaming wireless mouse.

Paying 5 times the price didn't make economical sense. I can also get
a decent gaming WIRED mouse, too. Logitech G3 wired mouse at $60
(Logitech's price; $47 at newegg.com). I did NOT include the MX1000
because "cordless performance that equals USB corded connection"
(Logitech's description) means it runs as the measly 125 Hz, and even
my wired non-gaming mouse can do 200 Hz. The G7 wireless (at the same
500 Hz as the G3 wired) costs $100 (Logitech's price; $72 at
newegg.com) and you get 2.5 days of battery life for average game
play. More money with the nuisance of batteries. Such a deal.

Wireless mice never have the longevity claimed by the mouse
manufacturer.

Mine hasnt failed and its been years now.

Sorry, I meant they don't have the longevity of battery life as
promised by the mouse manufacturer. The cradle was provided to hide
that fact. Some even come with 2 battery packs with the cradle to
further hide the problem of using batteries (so you're back to
swapping batteries).

I found the Logitech are more responsive than IBM or Microsoft but
that's because the Logitech doesn't go to sleep as often

Doesnt go to sleep at all when its being used.

Except YOU don't constantly keep the mouse in motion. Most will go to
sleep in just 1 minute. With the IBM, it was 1.5 seconds to get it
out of sleep mode which meant I could be circling the mouse quite a
bit before the mouse cursor started moving. The Microsoft went to
sleep after 1 minute but was quicker to wake up but I could still see
the lag when I went to move the mouse before it woke up. The
Logitech's went to sleep after a longer period of inactivity and were
quicker to wake up, but they were also the shortest for battery
longevity. With a corded mouse, it never sleeps so you don't have to
"shake it" to wake it up. Cordless mice MUST go to sleep to preserve
battery life. If all you do is graphics then it's possible that you
keep you mouse continuously active. Same for when you are playing
games unless you find the keyboard provides better control, especially
for movement. For the rest of the use of the computer, you will use
the keyboard a lot, just like when you're typing your replies here.
Meanwhile your mouse sits idle and goes to sleep so you have to wake
it to get the mouse cursor moving.

and it also wakes up faster, and I've found Logitech to be less
jerky (but still jerkier than wired but tolerable and probably not
noticable by lots of users).

It isnt jerky at all with the MX700.

Which is a Logitech model. Have you tried other brands? I said the
Logitech were smoother.

And because they're less reliable than wired keyboards,

Pure drivel.

Some come with cradles so you don't have to replace batteries. Most
wireless mice do NOT have cradles. You think it is more reliable to
have users flexing a tab to remove a panel and be yanking out and
shoving in batteries? Besides the batteries, there is more to break
in wireless mice. After all, corded mice don't have to deal with
RF/EMF interference, switching channels to eliminate cross-talk
between nearby cordless mice or keyboards, and when they break (and
remember they ARE mechanical/manual devices so they do break) the
cordless units are cheaper to replace.

Wireless mice are supposed to have a working range of up to 15
feet. True and not true. Some won't work if the mouse if more
than 3 feet away from the receiver.

Anyone with a clue gets one with a much better
range than that if they need that. Bluetooth works
so far that you cant read the monitor anymore.

And farther range is a plus? So you have greater chance of
interference (from other Bluetooth devices or EMF) is a plus? What's
the point of extended range in a *mouse* or *keyboard*? Wireless
hubs/routers maybe, but mice? (rolls eyes)

Be careful what you place between the receiver and mouse. Yes, RF
mice don't need line-of-sight but hiding the receiver on the other
side of a metallic system case or behind a monitor can result in
poor reception.

Even you should be able to avoid that situation.

Not when you have a cubicle with 8 machines, 4 monitors (one on a KVM
for 7 of the hosts, one for the Sun, one for a remote test station,
and another for the alpha lab), and still need to retain enough
desktop space for paperwork and a phone. Not everyone has unlimited
space and can configure the physical layout anyway they want with an
unlimited budget to buy whatever they need.

There is also the problem of one wireless mouse affecting another.

Not with a properly designed system.

And still you have to explain how you define this "properly designed
system" within the limitations of the settings that are available in
the devices. How many channels are available to prevent interference
with other wireless devices? Can you budget for the shielding? Just
because it is possible doesn't mean it is feasible.

the wireless mice so they won't interfere, and most only give you 2
"channels". In a home environment

Which just happens to be the situation being discussed.

So you know that the OP lives in a house at a good distance from his
neighbors and not in a condo, townhome, or apartment where the
neighbors' computer are just across that sheetrock wall?

with just one computer, this interference isn't a problem (unless
you're in an apartment near the same wall where the next tenant
also has their computer and wireless mouse),

It has to be the same system too.

Let's see. In an apartment, you could have a neighbor to the left, to
the right, across the hall, upstairs, and downstairs. And with your
claimed Bluetooth, now you're including neighbors several rooms away
and several floors up and down. Not quite as bad as wireless mice in
populate cubicles but not so isolated as you imply.

For wireless mice, and because they don't last that long, now
they're making cradles to keep the batteries recharged (to hide the
poor longevity).

Nope, because thats more convenient than farting around changing
batterys.

And now some of those coming with cradles are including 2 battery
packs because, gee, the batteries might be too low and the charge take
too long and the user wants to continue working or playing NOW. The
cradles were to hide the nuisances of batteries but they are proving
insufficient, especially for heavy gamers, so now they're back to
providing replaceable battery packs (so we're back to swapping
batteries) besides providing the cradle.

You've likely noticed cordless phones use the same system.

And why you better have a non-cordless phone for emergency use. If
the power goes out, so does your cordless phone. Why? Well, yeah,
the battery in the cordless phone still works but the base unit which
does NOT have batteries is dead and what your cordless phone uses to
interface to the POTS line. If you have cordless phones, you had
better get a UPS for them or add a corded phone somewhere in your
house so you can actually call the power company to report the outage.

Also remember that wireless mice weigh more than wired mice.

I dont care. Its weight is fine anyway.

So you're arguing that MORE strain and effort is better than less. Uh
huh. Users that have a good reason or simply feel the need to go
cordless usually don't lie or delude themself about the negative
tradeoff in the extra weight for the wireless mouse.

Why? Because of the weight of the batteries. If you choose to use
a mouse (instead of a trackball), you will invariably end up having
to lift
the mouse over and over to reposition it on the mouse pad or
desktop.

Even a weakling like you should be able to manage that fine.

Advice from someone that doesn't care about fatigue or strain.
Masochism comes to mind for someone that actually likes to do it the
hard way. Yeah, if wireless mouse manufacturers couldn't figure out
how to lighten their devices (without reducing battery longevity), of
course they wouldn't want to do that, oh no. You think the other
mouse manufacturers would dread if someone came out with a wireless
mouse that weighed no more than a wired mouse? Personally I have no
desire to be shoving a brick around to move the mouse cursor.

So how do you pick up the mouse for all that repositioning? By
squeezing it between your fingers (thumb and pinky usually).

Wrong again.

Your pinky can get tired after hours and hours of mouse use,
especially with a heavier mouse that has to house batteries.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

Oh, and you use telekinesis to raise and move over your mouse? How
wonderful for you. Or maybe you've permanently glued some velcro onto
your palm and onto the mouse.

If you can arrange that the cord is unfettered so it doesn't snag
and also doesn't hit anything (to eliminate torqueing on the mouse
from restricted cord movement), a wired mouse is much less effort
to move over extended periods of use.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

You're failing faster and faster.

My fingers got sore from prolonged use of a wireless mouse because
of the extra weight.

Not everyone is a puny as you.

Some of us actually have to USE computers all day long and then into
the night, too. To you, your computer is a very pricey toy. For me,
it's a constantly used tool. Hold a pencil with your arm outstretched
straight from your side so it is vertical. Nothing to it, huh? Now
keep your arm there for hours and hours. Yeah, right, you are
Superman. I was talking about using a computer for extended periods
of time, not between TV commercials. Even when gaming for hours on
end, I find a lighter mouse less strain on my fingers and wrist than
using a heavier mouse. But then, of course, you're Superman.

I also don't go deliberately looking for keyboards that have the
hardest keys to press, either.

Not everyone is a puny as you.

Boring.

Wireless mice are pricier. Break a wired one and its replacement
is cheap. Break or lose a wireless mouse and you'll waste time
hunting around for a better price or rethinking your original
choice.

So dont break it, stupid.

Wow, a self-professed male living alone. Try living with kids in the
house, or coworkers that need to use your host. Again, he speaks from
experience regarding infrequent use of his computer equipment.

Also consider the expense of batteries.

No thanks, I had enough of a clue to get one with a charging cradle.

You've already paid for all those batteries by having to pay extra for
the cordless mouse that comes with a cradle. You really got the
cradle for free? You really got those LIon batteries for free?
Whether you bought a cordless mouse with or without a cradle, you
still ended up paying for all those batteries.

Unless you get one with a cradle, you will need to buy lots of
alkaline batteries

Only fools are actually that stupid.

So those without cradles won't need to buy batteries? Wonderful.
Let's hear about your new perpetual motion engine. Perhaps it was the
"unless you get one with a cradle" that was stupid. You didn't
clarify. If so, you're in that class. If what you meant to say is
that buying a cordless mouse without a cradle is stupid, well, you
already paid for all those batteries due to the higher cost of
including the charging cradle and the higher cost for the rechargeable
batteries.

or you will need to get the rechargeable batteries (that don't last
a long per charge as the single-use of non-rechargeable) along
with a charger.

Anyone with a clue buys one with a charging cradle.

Not if they are buying a number of machines (but then wireless gets
dumped in that case, anyway) to be used by a varying number of
ever-changing users. Anytime there are multiple parts, there's more
chance they get lost. Reliability is often more important than
gimmickry. And reliability is not just measured in how long the
device physically endures.

If you get one with a recharging cradle, you'll get ****ed off
everytime you leave the computer to come back to find that you
forgot to cradle your wireless mouse when you left, and now your
mouse is still dead while you wait for it to charge.

You've clearly never used one. A properly designed one will
go for days between charges, will give enough of a warning
about low battery that you can still use it all day and put it on
the charger when you stop using it that night, and will recharge
fully during the lunch break etc anyway.

Again someone who professes that they can excuse their lack of work to
their boss because their mouse battery went dead. Obviously not a
demanding job when any excuse provides slack off time. Yes, I know
several cordless mouse users that have a cradle. I giggle every time
they mention they are waiting for their mouse to charge because they
forgot to put it in the cradle the day before. Meanwhile I'm still
working away with my corded mouse. In fact, anyone who used that
excuse ended up getting their mouse replaced with a corded one since
that stupidity for downtime was not tolerated. Performance is more
important than gimmickry.

And getting a wireless mouse does NOT reduce the number of cords,
anyway.

It does where the cords matter, at the keyboard and mouse.

I stand corrected. The number of cords at the system unit is reduced
since only 1 cord is needed for the receiver as opposed to 1 for the
mouse and 1 for the keyboard. But there is still the cord. The cords
matter at the keyboard and mouse? The keyboard doesn't move (except
for you and others that seem to find their lap more comfortable). It
just sits there on the desk. The mouse moves all around in a small
1-foot circle atop a mouse pad or the same area on a desktop. If the
mouse cord is unfettered, there is no restriction in movement of the
LIGHTER wired mouse (yeah, we already know your masochistic argument
that heavier mice are better).

You're still stuck with the corded receiver.

Since you never move that around, thats irrelevant.

The cord for the keyboard doesn't move around, either, and my point as
to why wireless is usually nonsense (not always, just usually). Yes,
you like to much more slowly type with the keyboard in your lap but I
wasn't speaking to abnormal use. Must be a very large lap you have for
both keyboard and mouse (ooh-hoo-oooh, don't like that image, think of
something else, think of something else).

Wired keyboards just work. Wireless ones have to be babysat.

Likewise when battery level goes low, you'll start to hear users in
the cubicles start swearing and banging harder on the keys until
you wander over to have a check and then replace the batteries.

Not everyone has to deal with cretins in cubicles.

And, for home users sitting alone at their computers wondering why
their game character isn't moving or acting erratically, the cretin is
that lone home user having to deal with themself. You haven't had to
deal with users much, you know, all those folks buying or using the
devices. Aren't you lucky. In a world of one.

There are good reasons of when or why to get wireless devices.
However, few of them come into play for users that choose them.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

Now, don't you feel so much better qualifying me as a drug crazed
fantasizing
cretin-helping puny weakling? I didn't say there was no reason to get
a wireless mouse. I'm saying that most consumers get them when they
can't qualify why they need wireless.

Vanguard wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Vanguard wrote
wrote

Exactly why I quit using wireless mice (and keyboards). The keyboard rarely
moves anyway so what's the point of having it wireless?

Mine moves a lot because I dont use it on a desktop.

You really think using a keyboard atop your lap is normal use by the majority
of wireless keyboard users?

Irrelevant to that first question of yours above.

Sometimes a wireless mouse makes good sense

Mostly, actually, you dont have the nuisance of the cable.

Only real downside is that its easier to drop a wireless mouse.

but not so much for a wireless keyboard.

Yes, its certainly less important, but when you have the wireless
system there for the mouse, you might as well use it for the
keyboard too, because the keyboard batterys last for a very
long time even if they are just plain non rechargable batterys.

One place a wireless mouse comes in handy is on shared hosts (or, at least, on
shared I/O devices to those hosts).

Yes, tho thats a less important factor here since
I use Synergy to share the mouse and keyboard
and have separate monitors on the switching that.

I use the mouse on the leftside of the keyboard although I am right-handed
because that lets me extend my arm straight forward rather than at an angle
due to lopsided keyboards (with the arrow and number pads on the right).
Other users want it on the right side of the keyboard.

I run it around on an old A4 book cover on my lap, sometime
run it around on my chest when doing something simple mouse
wise for a moment with the keyboard on my lap.

So being wireless makes it trivial to position the mouse on either side of the
keyboard for multiple users.

Yes.

However, that is not how most wireless mice are used; i.e., they have a single
user.

Yes, but the lack of a wire does make them more convenient
even for those that still use them on the desktop.

The only time wireless makes sense is if the system unit will be farther
away than the cord, but then wireless devices don't come with very long
cords, either.

Wrong again. The bluetooth devices can be used so far from
the system that you cant even read the monitor anymore.

What is the point of moving yourself far away from that large monitor

I dont do that, I use it in the same place as the smaller monitor used to be.

for which you paid extra so it is the equivalent of a much cheaper and smaller
monitor?

Dont do that either.

I don't recall ever seeing someone down the hallway waving their mouse around.

Yes, but it does blow that silly claim you made about range completely
out of the water, and fixes the multiple channel problem completely too.

I haven't seen anyone positioning the mouse and keyboard much more than 1 to 3
feet from the monitor monitor.

That aint the reason for bluetooth wireless mice and keyboards.

Yes, I know, gimmickry sells.

It aint gimmickry, there are real advantages with bluetooth
with mice and keyboards, most obviously with the much
better range so you dont ever get dropouts, and you dont
have any problem with interference from other systems either.

Bluetooth is not just used for wireless mice. It's used for networking, too.

Duh.

Just Google on the problems with RF interference when using Bluetooth.

Dont need to, I know it works fine.

That guy down the hallway waving his Bluetooth mouse around and using
binoculars to see his monitor will also have interference problems.

Nope.

Oh, of course, your response is "not in a properly configured system". You
can configure the "system" only within the limits of the settings that are
provided.

And those limits dont exist with bluetooth mice and keyboards.

You are really claiming that it is ALWAYS possible to eliminate interference
with other Bluetooth and other RF devices?

Yep. Bluetooth has been designed from scratch to
handle multiple bluetooth sessions in close proximity.

If so, time to visit the US Patent Office with that discovery.

No point, its already been invented, its called bluetooth.

I've yet to see one that notifies you BEFORE voltage gets too low to affect
behavior.

You need to get out more. The MX700 warns you so early that you can continue
to use it fine all day once it starts warning of a low battery.

During gameplay, just where are you going to see that warning icon?

It isnt an icon, the led on the top of the mouse starts blinking slowly.

Even you would notice it.

If it flashes up a warning dialog,

It doesnt if you dont want one.

it will screw up the resolution of the game, interrupt the game to pop you
back to the desktop, and upon returning
to the game you may not be able to restore a usable screen.

It doesnt if you dont want one.

Indicators on the mouse, tray icons, and warning dialogs, all to
overcome or forestall the inevitable problem of failing battery charge.

It just indicates that you need to put the mouse on the charger
when you are finished with the system that evening etc.

Many just put the mouse on the charger when they
stop using the system in the evening and so never
ever see any low battery indication what so ever.

Even you should be able to manage that.

Yes, the particular wireless mouse that the OP mentioned may have an indicator
of battery life.

No may about it, its got a 4 level battery charge indicator.

So is the user actually monitoring that indicator during gameplay or while
working to figure out just when they will have to plan for the temporary
outage so they can replace the batteries without interfering with their later
use of the or continue their work?

Nope, you can ignore it completely if you put the mouse on the
charger when you are finished with the system in the evening.
The indication is JUST a reminder that you need to put it on
the charger when you are finished with it in the evening if
you dont put it on the charger routinely every evening.

I've never seen users watching their mouse.

You dont need to. The indicator is so obvious
that even you wouldnt be able to miss it.

Instead they watch the mouse cursor on the monitor, so it will be when
they experience erratic behavior that they might then check on battery
voltage but then it's low and they have to do something about it then.

Wrong again. You get the indication of low battery LONG before you
ever get any erratic behaviour with a properly designed wireless mouse.

Something will happen with the mouse behavior and then they will look at the
voltage indicator.

Wrong again. You cant miss the low battery
indication with a properly designed mouse.

Hell, most users never notice the CapsLock LED on their keyboard is lit until
they notice they get all caps, then they look.

They dont even look at the led, just hit the caps lock key.

And it charges fast enough so that even a coffee break is enough to turn the
led off, and it will fully charge over lunch too.

Must be nice to have such a slow work schedule (or personal schedule).

Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasys.

Having to wait around 15 minutes let alone an hour is not tolerable.

Pity you dont have to, it will run fine for the rest of the day when its
showing a low battery indication. Its JUST a reminder to put it on
the charger when you are finished with it in the evening, and if you
manage to forget to do that, you can just stick it on the charger
when thats convenient the next day. No one actually uses their
system continuously all day.

I doubt the mouse will just happen to get low when it happens to be lunch or
break time.

You're ignoring the FACT that the low battery indication happens
A FULL DAY OF USE BEFORE IT NEEDS TO BE CHARGED.

I wasn't looking to deliberately generate interruptions in my game play or for
other use of my computers or a reason to slack off at work. Yeah, boss, gotta
take an early/late
lunch because my mouse isn't charged up.

Just another of your silly little pig ignorant fantasys.

Remember when inside a game that you won't see a tray icon that may show you
voltage level of the batteries

That particular mouse he asked about has a 4
level battery level indicator on the mouse itself.

Which the user won't be monitoring while playing a game or when engrossed in
their work.

Doesnt need to, just check it when stopping using the system
as an indication that the mouse needs to be charged that night.

They'll know to replace the batteries or recharge when and after the mouse
starts behaving erratically, and by then voltage is too low.

Wrong, as always.

Keyboards have had ScrollLock, NumLock, and CapsLock LEDs for decades and yet
they don't monitor them until after something doesn't behave as expected.

They dont even bother to look at them even then, just hit the caps
lock key when they get a set of caps when that isnt intended.

(and I've yet to see such a tray icon

Again, you need to get out more. The Logitechs have that.

I didn't say no tray icon was provided.

I didnt say you did. I JUST said that if you havent
seen such a tray icon, you need to get out more.

Yep, if you cannot argue the point, chop it up so it looks like they said
something else.

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

Not with that one he asked about. And its got a
4 level charge indicator on the mouse anyway.

Yeah, you made that point already. Do you actually watch your mouse as you
move it around and click on its buttons?

Dont need to with a properly designed low battery indicator.

Even you'd notice, even tho you have clearly wanked yourself blind.

Also, the polling rate for wireless mices is much slower.

Wrong again.

Yep, you are right - for GAMING mice. Some examples:

Typical cordless mouse: 125 Hz
Typical corded mouse: 200 Hz
Logitech MX1000 cordless mouse: Logitech doesn't say
Logitech G7 Laser cordless mouse: 500 Hz
Razer Copperhead cordless mouse: 1000 Hz

Logitech doesn't list the reports/sec (Hz) polling rate for the MX1000. Since
they advertise the G7 as their gaming mouse then the MX1000 is probably
something less, like 200 Hz which puts it equivalent to the corded mice.

So if there are wireless gaming mice, there aren't wired gaming mice?

Because all wired mice have an adequate polling rate.

I've heard of programs, like USB Mouserate Switcher, than can up the polling
rate to 1000 Hz. While Logitech has their wireless G7 gaming mouse, they also
have their wired G7 gaming mouse for those not wanting the extra weight of
batteries and the nuisances that batteries incur. So, yes, I was wrong that
the polling rate is worse for wireless mice. It just isn't any better than
wired mice.

Corse it is, the wire cant ever get in the road.

You might try to up the sampling rate and buffer size but that won't affect
the polling rate between the wireless mouse and the receiver.

Not a problem with a properly designed system.

I've tried 7 wireless mice from IBM, Microsoft, Logitech, and a couple of
the low-name brands and ALL were more jerky in gameplay than a wired mouse.

You clearly didnt try the MX700.

After trialing several wireless mice, I decided I liked the much
lighter corded mice due to the lack of weight for the batteries.

Your problem. So you clearly arent in any position to say
anything useful about how suitable they are for gaming,
or anything else at all about them either. You clearly dont
actually have a clue about the basics with a low battery
indicator with a properly designed wireless mouse either.

I use my mouse a LOT over long continuous hours of use.

So do I, and I bet its more than you do too.

Casual users probably won't mind. I'm arguing for less stress and less
fatigue.
You're arguing for more of these.

Wrong again. I get no stress and no fatigue with my wireless
mouse, even tho its is certainly heavier than the corded mice,
and I dont just run it around on the tabletop either.

You must be extremely puny if you cant manage a wireless mouse.

For short use, like a couple hours, you might not mind.

I dont mind when I use it for 20+ hours thanks.

The same is true for the newbies that start working in computer rooms and
don't wear ear protectors because, well, gee, all the fans don't seem to be
that loud.

Some of us have enough of a clue to assemble quiet systems.

Some are much better than others but then most folks don't go switching
between them and wired mice often enough to see the small jerkiness in
movement that remains with wireless mice, or they play undemanding and slow
games.

You clearly havent tried a decent gaming wireless mouse.

Paying 5 times the price didn't make economical sense.

Mindlessly silly. Even the most expensive wireless mice cost
peanuts per year for the 7 years they are warranted for.

Even a desperate pov like you should be able to manage that.

In spades when you consider the cost of the rest of the gaming hardware.

I can also get a decent gaming WIRED mouse, too. Logitech G3 wired mouse at
$60 (Logitech's price; $47 at newegg.com).

I did NOT include the MX1000 because "cordless performance that equals USB
corded connection" (Logitech's description) means it runs as the measly 125
Hz,

You dont know that.

and even my wired non-gaming mouse can do 200 Hz.

You dont know that its any worse than that.

The G7 wireless (at the same 500 Hz as the G3 wired) costs $100 (Logitech's
price; $72 at newegg.com)

Peanuts per year over 3 years its warranted for when the cost
of the rest of the gaming hardware per year is considered.

and you get 2.5 days of battery life for average game play.

So if you put it on the charger every evening,
you will never ever see any low battery indicator.

More money

Peanuts, actually.

with the nuisance of batteries.

No nuisance what so every, you just put it in the charger
when you are finished with the system every evening etc.

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to manage that.

Such a deal.

Such pathetic excuse for bull****.

Wireless mice never have the longevity claimed by the mouse manufacturer.

Mine hasnt failed and its been years now.

Sorry, I meant they don't have the longevity of battery life as promised by
the mouse manufacturer.

Mine does.

The cradle was provided to hide that fact.

Nope, to provide a convenient way to charge it, actually.

Some even come with 2 battery packs with the cradle to further hide the
problem of using batteries (so you're back to swapping batteries).

If you're actually stupid enough to buy one of those...

I found the Logitech are more responsive than IBM or Microsoft but that's
because the Logitech doesn't go to sleep as often

Doesnt go to sleep at all when its being used.

Except YOU don't constantly keep the mouse in motion.

You dont need to, it STILL doesnt sleep with a properly designed mouse.

Most will go to sleep in just 1 minute.

What matters is what a properly designed gaming mouse does.

With the IBM, it was 1.5 seconds to get it out of sleep mode which meant I
could be circling the mouse quite a bit before the mouse cursor started
moving.

I have never ever had to do that for any time whatever.

The Microsoft went to sleep after 1 minute but was quicker to wake up but I
could still see the lag when I went to move the mouse before it woke up.

I have never ever seen mine visibly wake up except in the sense
that you can see the laser go to full power immediately its moved.

The Logitech's went to sleep after a longer period of inactivity and were
quicker to wake up, but they were also the shortest for battery longevity.

Irrelevant if you never ever get any low battery indication ever if
you charge it every evening when you are finished with the system.

With a corded mouse, it never sleeps so you don't have to "shake it" to wake
it up.

Never ever had to shake my cordless mouse to wake it up.

Cordless mice MUST go to sleep to preserve battery life.

And its perfectly possible to design it so it wakes up so fast
that you never notice any delay, and it STILL never shows
any low battery indication if you charge it every evening.

If all you do is graphics then it's possible that you keep you mouse
continuously active.

I dont even see it sleep when I am
replying to a longer post like this one.

Same for when you are playing games unless you find the keyboard provides
better control, especially for movement. For the rest of the use of the
computer, you will use the keyboard a lot, just like when you're typing your
replies here.

Yes, and it doesnt go to sleep while I do.

Meanwhile your mouse sits idle and goes to sleep

Wrong, as always.

so you have to wake it to get the mouse cursor moving.

Wrong again, it wakes up so fast you dont even notice.

and it also wakes up faster, and I've found Logitech to be less jerky (but
still jerkier than wired but tolerable and probably not noticable by lots of
users).

It isnt jerky at all with the MX700.

Which is a Logitech model. Have you tried other brands?

Yep.

I said the Logitech were smoother.

Pity you also claimed that they are still jerkier than
wired and you are just plain wrong, as always.

And because they're less reliable than wired keyboards,

Pure drivel.

Some come with cradles so you don't have to replace batteries. Most wireless
mice do NOT have cradles.

Irrelevant, you buy one that does, stupid.

You think it is more reliable to have users flexing a tab to remove a panel
and be yanking out and shoving in batteries?

Nope, that a cordless mouse which has a charge is more
reliable than a wired mouse, because the cable cant fail.

Besides the batteries, there is more to break in wireless mice.

Pity they dont have a constantly flexed wire to break.

After all, corded mice don't have to deal with RF/EMF interference, switching
channels to eliminate cross-talk between nearby cordless mice or keyboards,
and when they break (and remember they ARE mechanical/manual devices so they
do break) the cordless units are cheaper to replace.

Wrong again. Mine has a 7 year warranty thanks.

Wireless mice are supposed to have a working range of up to 15 feet. True
and not true. Some won't work if the mouse if more than 3 feet away from
the receiver.

Anyone with a clue gets one with a much better
range than that if they need that. Bluetooth works
so far that you cant read the monitor anymore.

And farther range is a plus?

If you have a problem with it not working more than 3 feet away, obviously.

So you have greater chance of interference (from other Bluetooth devices or
EMF) is a plus?

Just another of your silly little pig ignorant fantasys.

You've clearly never actually used one.

What's the point of extended range in a *mouse* or *keyboard*?

You were the one whining about not working past 3 feet.

Wireless hubs/routers maybe, but mice? (rolls eyes)

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

Be careful what you place between the receiver and mouse. Yes, RF mice
don't need line-of-sight but hiding the receiver on the other side of a
metallic system case or behind a monitor can result in poor reception.

Even you should be able to avoid that situation.

Not when you have a cubicle with 8 machines, 4 monitors (one on a KVM for 7 of
the hosts, one for the Sun, one for a remote test station, and another for the
alpha lab), and still need to retain enough desktop space for paperwork and a
phone.

Mindlessly silly.

Not everyone has unlimited space

You dont need that.

and can configure the physical layout anyway they want with an unlimited
budget to buy whatever they need.

Dont need an unlimited budget either.

And even you should be able to use bluetooth to completely
eliminate that problem and the one below, if someone was actually
stupid enough to lend you a seeing eye dog and a white cane.

There is also the problem of one wireless mouse affecting another.

Not with a properly designed system.

And still you have to explain how you define this "properly designed system"
within the limitations of the settings that are available in the devices.

Nope, not with bluetooth.

How many channels are available to prevent interference with other wireless
devices?

Its essentially unlimited with bluetooth.

Can you budget for the shielding?

Dont need any.

Just because it is possible doesn't mean it is feasible.

Its feasible anyway, hordes are doing it every single day.

the wireless mice so they won't interfere, and most only give you 2
"channels". In a home environment

Which just happens to be the situation being discussed.

So you know that the OP lives in a house at a good distance from his neighbors
and not in a condo, townhome, or apartment where the neighbors' computer are
just across that sheetrock wall?

That MX1000 will still work fine even in that situation.

with just one computer, this interference isn't a problem (unless you're in
an apartment near the same wall where the next tenant also has their
computer and wireless mouse),

It has to be the same system too.

Let's see.

Not possible for you, you've wanked yourself completely blind.

In an apartment, you could have a neighbor to the left, to the right, across
the hall, upstairs, and downstairs.

Not necessarily using the same system tho. In fact unlikely that they will be.

And with yourclaimed Bluetooth, now you're including neighbors several rooms
away and several floors up and down.

But with unlimited channel capability.

Not quite as bad as wireless mice in populate cubicles but not so isolated as
you imply.

Fraid so, its much more likely that the rat hole situation
will see all the rats using the same wireless system.

For wireless mice, and because they don't last that long, now they're making
cradles to keep the batteries recharged (to hide the poor longevity).

Nope, because thats more convenient than farting around changing batterys.

And now some of those coming with cradles are including 2 battery packs

**** all do. Even someone as stupid as you
should be able to work out how to avoid those.

because, gee, the batteries might be too low and the charge take
too long and the user wants to continue working or playing NOW.

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to work out that
if you put the mouse on the charger every evening when you have
finished using the system, you never need to stop anything to
charge the mouse ever, let alone change any battery.

The cradles were to hide the nuisances of batteries

They completely eliminate it.

but they are proving insufficient, especially for heavy gamers,

Wrong again.

so now they're back to providing replaceable battery packs

**** all do.

(so we're back to swapping batteries) besides providing the cradle.

Not with the mice that go for days between charges.

You've likely noticed cordless phones use the same system.

And why you better have a non-cordless phone for emergency use.

Different problem, the base isnt powered in that situation.

If the power goes out, so does your cordless phone.

Not necessarily, it wont if you have it on any UPS at all.

Why? Well, yeah, the battery in the cordless phone still works but the base
unit which does NOT have batteries is dead and what your cordless phone uses
to interface to the POTS line. If you have cordless phones, you had better
get a UPS for them

Or you may well have a UPS anyway and all you have to do
is to plug it into that. Even you should be able to manage that.

or add a corded phone somewhere in your house so you can actually call the
power company to report the outage.

Its very unlikely that you actually need to report it and that
sort of thing is so rare that anyone with a clue continues to
use cordless phones and has a spare corded phone in case
its ever needed.

Only a fool avoids using cordless phones for that reason.

Also remember that wireless mice weigh more than wired mice.

I dont care. Its weight is fine anyway.

So you're arguing that MORE strain and effort is better than less. Uh huh.

There is no more strain and effort whatever.

And if you're that puny, the cord will be a problem anyway.

Users that have a good reason or simply feel the need to go cordless usually
don't lie or delude themself about the negative tradeoff in the extra weight
for the wireless mouse.

Or its just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasys.

Why? Because of the weight of the batteries. If you choose to use a mouse
(instead of a trackball), you will invariably end up having to lift the
mouse over and over to reposition it on the mouse pad or desktop.

Even a weakling like you should be able to manage that fine.

Advice from someone that doesn't care about fatigue or strain.

From someone who knows that there is no more fatigue or strain, actually.

Masochism comes to mind for someone that actually likes to do it the hard way.

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

Yeah, if wireless mouse manufacturers couldn't figure out how to lighten their
devices (without reducing battery longevity), of
course they wouldn't want to do that, oh no.

Or maybe they actually realise that there are few so puny that
they cant manage to move a cordless mouse around on the tabletop.

You think the other mouse manufacturers would dread if someone came out with a
wireless mouse that weighed no more than a wired mouse?

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

Personally I have no desire to be shoving a brick around to move the mouse
cursor.

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

So how do you pick up the mouse for all that repositioning? By squeezing it
between your fingers (thumb and pinky usually).

Wrong again.

Your pinky can get tired after hours and hours of mouse use,
especially with a heavier mouse that has to house batteries.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

Oh, and you use telekinesis to raise and move over your mouse?

Nope, I just dont hold it between my thumb and pinky.

Might be because I actually use a properly designed mouse.

How wonderful for you. Or maybe you've permanently glued some velcro onto
your palm and onto the mouse.

In your case its obviously the hair on your palms and the
unspeakable secretions that are matted in that that does that.

If you can arrange that the cord is unfettered so it doesn't snag
and also doesn't hit anything (to eliminate torqueing on the mouse
from restricted cord movement), a wired mouse is much less effort
to move over extended periods of use.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

You're failing faster and faster.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

My fingers got sore from prolonged use of a wireless mouse because of the
extra weight.

Not everyone is a puny as you.

Some of us actually have to USE computers all day long and then into the
night, too.

Yep, bet I use mine for longer than you do too thanks.

To you, your computer is a very pricey toy.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.

For me, it's a constantly used tool.

You might not actually be alone on that, child.

Hold a pencil with your arm outstretched straight from your side so it is
vertical. Nothing to it, huh? Now keep your arm there for hours and hours.
Yeah, right, you are Superman.

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

I was talking about using a computer for extended periods of time, not between
TV commercials.

Me too thanks, child. I dont ever get any TV commercials
either, my system eliminates those thanks.

Even when gaming for hours on end, I find a lighter mouse less strain on my
fingers and wrist than using a heavier mouse.

You're that puny ? Your problem.

I also don't go deliberately looking for keyboards that have the hardest
keys to press, either.

Not everyone is a puny as you.

Boring.

Your sig is sposed to go at the bottom, child.

Wireless mice are pricier. Break a wired one and its replacement
is cheap. Break or lose a wireless mouse and you'll waste time
hunting around for a better price or rethinking your original choice.

So dont break it, stupid.

Wow, a self-professed male living alone.

You're guessing again, and egg all over your silly little face, as always.

Try living with kids in the house, or coworkers that need to use your host.

Dont need to try that thanks, child.

Again, he speaks from experience regarding infrequent use of his computer
equipment.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.

Also consider the expense of batteries.

No thanks, I had enough of a clue to get one with a charging cradle.

You've already paid for all those batteries by having to pay extra for the
cordless mouse that comes with a cradle.

Peanuts as part of what you pay for the rest of the gaming system.

You really got the cradle for free? You really got those LIon batteries for
free?

Nope, but they cost peanuts.

Whether you bought a cordless mouse with or without a cradle, you still ended
up paying for all those batteries.

You quite sure you aint one of those rocket
scientist pathetic excuses for a bull**** artist ?

Unless you get one with a cradle, you will need to buy lots of alkaline
batteries

Only fools are actually that stupid.

So those without cradles won't need to buy batteries?

Nope, they dont need LOTS OF ALKALINE BATTERYS.

Wonderful. Let's hear about your new perpetual motion engine.

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

Perhaps it was the "unless you get one with a cradle" that was stupid.

Nope.

You didn't clarify.

Didnt need to unless you actually are that stupid.

If so, you're in that class.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.

If what you meant to say is that buying a cordless mouse without a cradle is
stupid,

Nope.

well, you already paid for all those batteries due to the higher cost of
including the charging cradle

Not if you dont bother with one of those.

and the higher cost for the rechargeable batteries.

Peanuts compared with the cost of ALL THOSE ALKALINE BATTERYS.

or you will need to get the rechargeable batteries (that don't last a long
per charge as the single-use of non-rechargeable) along with a charger.

Anyone with a clue buys one with a charging cradle.

Not if they are buying a number of machines (but then wireless gets dumped in
that case, anyway) to be used by a varying number of ever-changing users.
Anytime there are multiple parts, there's more chance they get lost.

Mindlessly silly. I dont bother with wired
remotes anymore, or wired phones either.

Reliability is often more important than gimmickry. And reliability is not
just measured in how long the device physically endures.

And the wired mice and keyboards I used never did last that long.

Keep desperately digging, you'll be out in china any day now.

If you get one with a recharging cradle, you'll get ****ed off
everytime you leave the computer to come back to find that you forgot to
cradle your wireless mouse when you left, and now your mouse is still dead
while you wait for it to charge.

You've clearly never used one. A properly designed one will
go for days between charges, will give enough of a warning
about low battery that you can still use it all day and put it on
the charger when you stop using it that night, and will recharge
fully during the lunch break etc anyway.

Again someone who professes that they can excuse their lack of work to their
boss because their mouse battery went dead.

Doesnt happen if you put it on the charger every night, stupid.

Obviously not a demanding job when any excuse provides slack off time.

Doesnt happen if you put it on the charger every night, stupid.

Yes, I know several cordless mouse users that have a cradle. I giggle every
time they mention they are waiting for their mouse to charge because they
forgot to put it in the cradle the day before.

Still not a problem with properly designed mouse
that can go all day with the low battery led flashing.

Meanwhile I'm still working away with my corded mouse.

Until the cord fails.

In fact, anyone who used that excuse ended up getting their mouse replaced
with a corded one since that stupidity for downtime was not tolerated.

Doesnt happen if you put it on the charger every night, stupid.

Performance is more important than gimmickry.

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

And getting a wireless mouse does NOT reduce the number of cords, anyway.

It does where the cords matter, at the keyboard and mouse.

I stand corrected. The number of cords at the system unit is reduced since
only 1 cord is needed for the receiver as opposed to 1 for the mouse and 1 for
the keyboard. But there is still the cord.

Pity its out of the road so it doesnt matter.

The cords matter at the keyboard and mouse?

Yep.

The keyboard doesn't move (except for you and others that seem to find their
lap more comfortable).

It aint just those, some move the keyboard
to provide more desk space at times too.

It just sits there on the desk.

So does the cradle, stupid.

The mouse moves all around in a small 1-foot circle atop a mouse pad or the
same area on a desktop. If the mouse cord is unfettered, there is no
restriction in movement of the LIGHTER wired mouse (yeah, we already know your
masochistic argument that heavier mice are better).

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

You're still stuck with the corded receiver.

Since you never move that around, thats irrelevant.

The cord for the keyboard doesn't move around, either,

So you're no worse off than you are with a wired keyboard, stupid.

and my point as to why wireless is usually nonsense (not always, just
usually). Yes, you like to much more slowly type with the keyboard in your
lap but I wasn't speaking to abnormal use.

Plenty move their keyboards at times for more desk space.

Must be a very large lap you have for both keyboard and mouse

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.

(ooh-hoo-oooh, don't like that image, think of something else, think of
something else).

Let go of it before you end up completely blind, child.

Wired keyboards just work. Wireless ones have to be babysat.

Likewise when battery level goes low, you'll start to hear users in
the cubicles start swearing and banging harder on the keys until
you wander over to have a check and then replace the batteries.

Not everyone has to deal with cretins in cubicles.

And, for home users sitting alone at their computers wondering why their game
character isn't moving or acting erratically, the cretin is that lone home
user having to deal with themself.

Even someone as stupid as you should notice the flashing low battery indicator.

You haven't had to deal with users much,

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.

Been doing that likely since before you were even born thanks, child.

you know, all those folks buying or using the
devices. Aren't you lucky. In a world of one.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.

There are good reasons of when or why to get wireless devices.
However, few of them come into play for users that choose them.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

Now, don't you feel so much better qualifying me as a drug crazed fantasizing
cretin-helping puny weakling?

Nope, fools like you should get a bullet in the back of the neck.

I didn't say there was no reason to get a wireless mouse.

Liar.

I'm saying that most consumers get them when they can't qualify why they need
wireless.

Irrelevant to whether they are useful anyway.

True in spades of cordless phones and cordless remotes.

On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 00:12:39 -0500, "Vanguard"
wrote:

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Vanguard wrote
wrote

Exactly why I quit using wireless mice (and keyboards). The
keyboard
rarely moves anyway so what's the point of having it wireless?

Mine moves a lot because I dont use it on a desktop.

You really think using a keyboard atop your lap is normal use by the
majority of wireless keyboard users?

Sometimes a wireless mouse makes good sense but not so much for a
wireless keyboard.

Actually it's the other way round. Mouse needs a flat surface, and
the monitor normally sits on a flat surface so it's easy to use the
mouse there. The keyboard can be perched on the lap or knee
with no problem.
Personally, I went wireless after the keyboard cord pulled my PS2
connection loose on my IBM PS/2 Consultant 486 motherboard.
IBM wanted $2200 for a new one even though the entire box
had cost about $1800 originally. Luckily my brother the engineer
was working at a diagnostic card company and fixed the board under a
scope.
There was considerable stress on that connection when the corded
keyboard was being gripped by a 200 pound man flipping backwards
over a big wheeled chair and falling to the floor. He was playing
DOOM. Yeah, it was me.
Anyway, my keyboard is perched on my lap now, as my normal mode
is to sit leaning back against the wall in a big cushioned office
chair, legs up one across the other with a foot on the ottoman.
No sense sitting like a professional typist, since I hardly type.
Of course I have lots of room, and my chair actually faces a big TV.
In the office I had the common setup.
I still occasionally drop a keyboard to the floor.
As a gamer I've had no game performance issues with the Logitech
wireless mice I've used over the years. But others may be
quicker-handed than me and find it an issue.
The biggest mouse problem is batteries are a pain in the ass.
I use rechargeables and if I get a week from them that's good.
A simple on/off switch on the mouse might allow them to last double
that, as the light is always on. But maybe the switch would be the
major failure point of the mouse.
I got a cradled wireless USB mouse as a gift but don't like the feel
of it, and its laggy besides. Don't know if that's the fault of the
mouse quality or that it's USB.
Since I build or fix 3 or 4 computers a year, I keep a wired PS/2
keyboard and mouse on a shelf for that work, as I don't need the added
connectivity issues when troubleshooting.
Once the la test sets of rechargeables bite the dust I'm probably
going back to a wired mouse.

--Vic