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Implementing a RAID System



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 20th 05, 04:44 PM
Chris Guimbellot
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Default Implementing a RAID System

Hello,

I am thinking about implementing a RAID system for my server. I need to
install something external because of the lack of room inside of the
machine. What I am asking is what type of issues do I need to be looking at?
It seems that I have heard of RAID 'boxes' specifically designed for this
purpose. Basically, I would like to know if anyone has any sites, etc that
explain how to go about adding a RAID system to a server. Thanks,

Chris


  #2  
Old January 21st 05, 06:58 AM
Curious George
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On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:44:05 -0500, "Chris Guimbellot"
wrote:

Hello,

I am thinking about implementing a RAID system for my server. I need to
install something external because of the lack of room inside of the
machine. What I am asking is what type of issues do I need to be looking at?
It seems that I have heard of RAID 'boxes' specifically designed for this
purpose. Basically, I would like to know if anyone has any sites, etc that
explain how to go about adding a RAID system to a server. Thanks,

Chris


There are two ways to add external DAS raid: either an external JBOD
enclosure connected to an internal controller or an enclosure which
has a controller built in and connects to a local bus. realistically
you are looking at two interfaces to connect these enclosures to the
computer: SCSI & firewire. Where you look next is going to depend on
budget, preference, performance & data security requirements. Since
there are so many options there is no one site to direct you. As I
don't know exactly what you are looking for it's silly to start
dictating specific products.
  #3  
Old January 23rd 05, 11:41 AM
Curious George
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On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 05:58:43 GMT, Curious George wrote:
snip
realistically
you are looking at two interfaces to connect these enclosures to the
computer: SCSI & firewire.


Also to some extent SATA.
  #4  
Old January 23rd 05, 09:17 PM
kony
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On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:44:05 -0500, "Chris Guimbellot"
wrote:

Hello,

I am thinking about implementing a RAID system for my server. I need to
install something external because of the lack of room inside of the
machine. What I am asking is what type of issues do I need to be looking at?
It seems that I have heard of RAID 'boxes' specifically designed for this
purpose. Basically, I would like to know if anyone has any sites, etc that
explain how to go about adding a RAID system to a server. Thanks,

Chris


IMO, you should look at a larger server case, keep them
internal if possible.
  #5  
Old January 24th 05, 04:25 AM
Curious George
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On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:17:52 GMT, kony wrote:

snip

IMO, you should look at a larger server case, keep them
internal if possible.


could you explain why?

  #6  
Old January 24th 05, 05:24 PM
Chris Guimbellot
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I have never heard that they should be internal. Why is that? Is it a speed
issue. I appreciate your response.

"kony" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:44:05 -0500, "Chris Guimbellot"
wrote:

Hello,

I am thinking about implementing a RAID system for my server. I need to
install something external because of the lack of room inside of the
machine. What I am asking is what type of issues do I need to be looking
at?
It seems that I have heard of RAID 'boxes' specifically designed for this
purpose. Basically, I would like to know if anyone has any sites, etc that
explain how to go about adding a RAID system to a server. Thanks,

Chris


IMO, you should look at a larger server case, keep them
internal if possible.



  #7  
Old January 24th 05, 07:08 PM
kony
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On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 03:25:24 GMT, Curious George
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:17:52 GMT, kony wrote:

snip

IMO, you should look at a larger server case, keep them
internal if possible.


could you explain why?


Because there's no benefit to the external chassis, not to
address any need that has been mentioned. Internal keeps
cooling and power simple, usually better. It is generally
quieter, also better protection to not have daisey-chained
external boxes. That may not matter, but it might.
Internal will be significantly faster than USB or firewire,
and (maybe I'm wrong?) I expect SATA or SCSI external to be
significantly more expensive.
  #8  
Old January 25th 05, 10:14 PM
net newb
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I asked you to elaborate because it wasn't clear to me whether you
were referring to price, convenience, quality, or something else. The
OP simply stated there was lack of room for an array. It's not clear
if he has a small, crammed chassis or a large server case that is
maxxed out, or he wants a large raid volume or several volumes.
Thanks for elaborating.


As I see it the main advantages of external raid a
- larger arrays or more complex setups simply don't fit internally or
leave no room to scale. Even relatively simple setups require
somewhat pricey chassis for reliable builds & might be well served
through use of external boxes (depending on projected plans).
- makes for a more modular system which can be easier to scale or
swap out
- external boxes offload the power & cooling responsibilities of the
main computer yielding more headroom for cooling & power safety
margin. One needs a high quality $$ server chassis & power supplies
for similar cooling & power quality - where the price differential
against a small & simple jbod enclosure is less significant or may
even be nil.
- a computer chassis (even a larger server chassis) which wasn't
initially purchased with the idea of adding hotswap raid, often
doesn't have enough bays to add this. Rebuilding the computer with a
new, good raidable chassis may or may not make sense.

That being said external boxes are less convenient if the system needs
to be moved or powered down. An external switch/control may be
necessary to compensate somewhat - but you may need this anyway esp
for remote management if this is a server. If you are willing to
spend it is certainly possible to get advanced monitoring features &
protective redundancy in either so that is essentially a wash.


Internal raid is:
- more convenient in many respects; everything is included & managed
& can be transported in one box. Everything is powered up or down
with one switch without need for 3rd party power control.
- If the failure/recovery philosophy favors swap out & replacement of
whole systems rather than parts (for speed or because of support
contracts) then this is better.

As far as noise, either setup can be noisy or quiet. Either can be
made quiet with careful planning & minimal cost (except in certain
cases). Noise of course is not always an issue - it only depends on
whether ppl work or live around it.

I don't buy the better protection argument. A system that is
important enough for RAID and is set up properly & appropriately
should just be humming along & left alone in one place, out of the way
of prying or tinkering hands. A tinkerer can just as easily mess up
an internal setup anyway. It's common to have alarms/access control
for server rooms (& for the paranoid for home offices as well) & locks
on HW or protective racks/enclosures.

As far as speed scsi & sata should not decrease when external. USB is
totally inappropriate for raid due to speed & flakiness. Firewire is
not normally done "internally" and AFIK is slower than scsi (haven't
compared FW to sata).

As we've discussed before price is a little more complicated than
initial investment. Even still when you compare quality items of
either interface the difference in initial investment is not that
impressive (IMO). Quality is another troubling point. FWIS External
firewire & sata offerings tend to be, well crap. While there is also
a ton of crappy scsi raid items, at this time, it appears that one
stands a better chance of finding something decent there - in which
case it is very well suited to external solutions or an internal &
external mix.

In summary yes I agree with your recommendation (as long as it is a
small & simple home or small workgroup server) but for different
reasons:
it will be easier to manage in the end & will avoid the pitfalls of so
many crappy external gear. But internal isn't always possible, or
necessarily more likely to be quieter, or easier, or protected, or
better powered & cooled, or faster, or significantly more expensive
(IMHO).
  #9  
Old January 25th 05, 10:17 PM
Curios George
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On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 21:14:24 GMT, net newb wrote:

OOPS. from wrong computer. (brain on hold)
  #10  
Old January 25th 05, 11:43 PM
kony
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On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 21:17:21 GMT, Curios George
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 21:14:24 GMT, net newb wrote:

OOPS. from wrong computer. (brain on hold)



Still a bad idea, IMO.
 




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