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Startup/Shutdown Problem



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 6th 03, 04:24 PM
Girgath
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Startup/Shutdown Problem

Forgive me for the confusion, I am a little behind on the lingo, you tell me
what mobo is and I will tell you what the matter is ... seriously, what is
mobo?


"Jim Miner" wrote in message
...
This is a hardware problem . . . not a windows problem.

When I shutdown my computer (new mobo - Epox 8RDA3+) it stutters -- it

acts
like it's switching between turning off and starting. The fans spin up a
little, then spin down, then spin back up . . . oscillating once a second

or
so. I have to pull the power cord to stop this and when I plug it back in
the problem reoccures and the computer won't startup. If I keep plugging

in
and out it eventually will cease and I can start the computer.

I'm thinking this is a mobo problem. All my hardware is the same and when

I
swap my old mobo back in the problem dissappears. But could it be a BIOS
annomoly??

thanks!

jim





  #2  
Old August 6th 03, 07:15 PM
Vanguard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Jim Miner" wrote in message

This is a hardware problem . . . not a windows problem.

When I shutdown my computer (new mobo - Epox 8RDA3+) it stutters --
it acts like it's switching between turning off and starting. The
fans spin up a little, then spin down, then spin back up . . .
oscillating once a second or so. I have to pull the power cord to
stop this and when I plug it back in the problem reoccures and the
computer won't startup. If I keep plugging in and out it eventually
will cease and I can start the computer.

I'm thinking this is a mobo problem. All my hardware is the same and
when I swap my old mobo back in the problem dissappears. But could
it be a BIOS annomoly??

thanks!

jim


One of the wires in the 20-pin Molex connector going from the power
supply to the motherboard is PS-ON. When this signal is open (i.e.,
disconnected), the power supply will shut off. When PS-ON is pulled TTL
high (over 2.4 volts, I think, it's been too long since I had to measure
TTL levels), the power supply shuts off. When PS-ON is pulled TTL low
(under 0.4 volts), the power supply's *other* outputs turn on along with
the fan. Whether turned on or off, the power supply always supplies 5
volts to the motherboard for circuitry that must continue to be powered
even when the power supply is "off", like for "Wake on event" settings
in the BIOS. That is why you need to yank the power cord from the back
of the power supply when changing PCI cards.

I might've suspected the power supply and its 5V output being defective
with too little regulation (too much ripple) or it couldn't supply
enough juice, except you mention the hardware configuration works okay
when using the old motherboard. Maybe there is something shorting that
signal on the motherboard but with enough resistance to cause the signal
level to float between TTL low and TTL high so the power supply doesn't
know if it's supposed to turn on or off. Maybe there is a solder flake
on the board causing the short. If you didn't take adequate anti-static
precautions when handling the motherboard, maybe you zapped it. Have
you tried jumpering the 2-pin header used to clear the CMOS table
holding the BIOS values? Have you checked for a bent pin in the 20-pin
header onto which you insert the big Molex connector from the power
supply? Have you checked the wiring to ensure it wasn't bent around a
sharp edge and might be shorting against the metal case? Have you tried
removing all PCI cards, including the video, to see if using the new
motherboard lets the power supply remain turned off? If that works,
replace each PCI card one at a time, starting with the video card.

If you don't find any physical problems on the mobo, the 20-pin
connector or header, resetting the BIOS, then consider returning the new
mobo for a replacement. Looks like the new mobo is screwing up on the
PS-ON signal.

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** Share with others. Post replies in the newsgroup.
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  #3  
Old August 6th 03, 10:40 PM
Jim Miner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Oh, sorry. Mobo = Motherboard . . . an Epox 8RDA3+.

Thank . . .

jim

"Girgath" wrote in message
. ca...
Forgive me for the confusion, I am a little behind on the lingo, you tell

me
what mobo is and I will tell you what the matter is ... seriously, what

is
mobo?


"Jim Miner" wrote in message
...
This is a hardware problem . . . not a windows problem.

When I shutdown my computer (new mobo - Epox 8RDA3+) it stutters -- it

acts
like it's switching between turning off and starting. The fans spin up

a
little, then spin down, then spin back up . . . oscillating once a

second
or
so. I have to pull the power cord to stop this and when I plug it back

in
the problem reoccures and the computer won't startup. If I keep

plugging
in
and out it eventually will cease and I can start the computer.

I'm thinking this is a mobo problem. All my hardware is the same and

when
I
swap my old mobo back in the problem dissappears. But could it be a

BIOS
annomoly??

thanks!

jim







  #4  
Old August 7th 03, 01:14 AM
Jim Miner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

OK, here's what I discovered:

Pulled out all the PCI/AGP cards and problem vanishes. Put in AGP care (ATi
Radeon 9700 Pro) and problem comes back. Remove AGP card and put all other
PCI cards in and when I plug in the power cord fans start for just a second,
but otherwise, things are fine.

Ah ha, I think to myself, it's got to be the Radeon card. But then when I
put it in another system it works fine. So I grab another power supply,
connect it to the system I'm having trouble with and, tada, no problems.

So, a power supply problem? What do you think? By the way, it's a PC Power
& Cooling 400w -- high quailty, nearly $200 . . . ouch! Hope it's still
under warrantee.

Thanks again for your time and help, it's more than appreciated!

jim


"Jim Miner" wrote in message
...
This is a hardware problem . . . not a windows problem.

When I shutdown my computer (new mobo - Epox 8RDA3+) it stutters -- it

acts
like it's switching between turning off and starting. The fans spin up a
little, then spin down, then spin back up . . . oscillating once a second

or
so. I have to pull the power cord to stop this and when I plug it back in
the problem reoccures and the computer won't startup. If I keep plugging

in
and out it eventually will cease and I can start the computer.

I'm thinking this is a mobo problem. All my hardware is the same and when

I
swap my old mobo back in the problem dissappears. But could it be a BIOS
annomoly??

thanks!

jim





  #5  
Old August 8th 03, 12:24 AM
Vanguard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Jim Miner" wrote in message

OK, here's what I discovered:

Pulled out all the PCI/AGP cards and problem vanishes. Put in AGP
care (ATi Radeon 9700 Pro) and problem comes back. Remove AGP card
and put all other PCI cards in and when I plug in the power cord fans
start for just a second, but otherwise, things are fine.

Ah ha, I think to myself, it's got to be the Radeon card. But then
when I put it in another system it works fine. So I grab another
power supply, connect it to the system I'm having trouble with and,
tada, no problems.

So, a power supply problem? What do you think? By the way, it's a
PC Power & Cooling 400w -- high quailty, nearly $200 . . . ouch!
Hope it's still under warrantee.

Thanks again for your time and help, it's more than appreciated!

jim


"Jim Miner" wrote in message
...
This is a hardware problem . . . not a windows problem.

When I shutdown my computer (new mobo - Epox 8RDA3+) it stutters --
it acts like it's switching between turning off and starting. The
fans spin up a little, then spin down, then spin back up . . .
oscillating once a second or so. I have to pull the power cord to
stop this and when I plug it back in the problem reoccures and the
computer won't startup. If I keep plugging in and out it eventually
will cease and I can start the computer.

I'm thinking this is a mobo problem. All my hardware is the same
and when I swap my old mobo back in the problem dissappears. But
could it be a BIOS annomoly??

thanks!

jim


Make sure you seat the AGP card FULLY into the slot. I had a buddy that
was working for a month on his computer because it wouldn't boot and
issued beep codes that indicated the video card was bad. A PCI video
card worked okay. He noticed a crack in the AGP slot shell and figured
it wasn't pressing hard enough against the pins. He returned that mobo
and got another but had the same problem. He eventually brought it into
work. Since I had heard of his tribulations, I sauntered in, saw what
he was doing, removed the PCI video card, inserted his old AGP video,
and it worked. After showing him that he had not fully seated his AGP
video card, I made a quick exit before he blew. After that, all I had
to do was smirk at him and he yell at me to shut up.

The Pro card will draw more power. Your motherboard may not be equipped
to handle the extra current draw of the Pro card while other newer
motherboards can. You need to make sure that the motherboard you use is
rated AGP *Pro* to supply enough current that card. You also better be
sure your power supply is capable of handling the wattage demands for
all your equipment, including the higher powered Pro video card. Unless
you get an Antec, Verax, Enermax, Fortron, or some other high quality
power supply, figure that the poor to fair quality units will only be
able to supply two-thirds of their rated power output. Some total up
all their power taps and say that is how much power they will supply but
the only real concern is the combined wattage output for the +5V, +12V,
and 3.3V taps. See http://tinyurl.com/jcvi and http://tinyurl.com/jcw0
for Tom's Hardware reviews. Also see ATI's tech article noting the
requirement for a [good] 300W power supply at http://tinyurl.com/jcwg.
If you are going to put in high-power components in your system, be sure
not only to get a power supply that is rated to handle at least a third
more than that but also a high quality unit that won't burn up or trip
(and not let you reset and restart; some will trip and become
permanently dead). If your unit is some generic that came with the
case, you might not even be able to identify its manufacturer, so
consider a bigger and better power supply as a mandatory upgrade if
you're going to upgrade the rest of the system with more power hungry
components.

By the way,
http://mirror.ati.com/products/radeo...pro/specs.html makes
mention of a connection to the power supply, so it must suck more
current than even the AGP Pro specification will handle (i.e., via the
AGP Pro slot). The manual at
http://mirror.ati.com/products/radeo...pro/specs.html
doesn't even discuss installing the hardware so there must be a separate
installation guide that they do not provide online. Is there some extra
power cable running to the Radeon 9700 Pro?


--
__________________________________________________ __________
** Share with others. Post replies in the newsgroup.
** If present, remove all "-nix" from my email address.
__________________________________________________ __________



  #6  
Old August 8th 03, 05:45 AM
Jim Milner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks again! The power supply is a 400w PC Power&Cooling -- very high
quality (about $200) and the mobo is brand new and agp pro/8 ready.

I think is a mobo issue. I'm going to rma it and see if a new on takes care
of the problem. Hope so.

Thanks again for all yr help and time.

jim


"Vanguard" wrote in message
news:YcBYa.92000$YN5.65438@sccrnsc01...
"Jim Miner" wrote in message

OK, here's what I discovered:

Pulled out all the PCI/AGP cards and problem vanishes. Put in AGP
care (ATi Radeon 9700 Pro) and problem comes back. Remove AGP card
and put all other PCI cards in and when I plug in the power cord fans
start for just a second, but otherwise, things are fine.

Ah ha, I think to myself, it's got to be the Radeon card. But then
when I put it in another system it works fine. So I grab another
power supply, connect it to the system I'm having trouble with and,
tada, no problems.

So, a power supply problem? What do you think? By the way, it's a
PC Power & Cooling 400w -- high quailty, nearly $200 . . . ouch!
Hope it's still under warrantee.

Thanks again for your time and help, it's more than appreciated!

jim


"Jim Miner" wrote in message
...
This is a hardware problem . . . not a windows problem.

When I shutdown my computer (new mobo - Epox 8RDA3+) it stutters --
it acts like it's switching between turning off and starting. The
fans spin up a little, then spin down, then spin back up . . .
oscillating once a second or so. I have to pull the power cord to
stop this and when I plug it back in the problem reoccures and the
computer won't startup. If I keep plugging in and out it eventually
will cease and I can start the computer.

I'm thinking this is a mobo problem. All my hardware is the same
and when I swap my old mobo back in the problem dissappears. But
could it be a BIOS annomoly??

thanks!

jim


Make sure you seat the AGP card FULLY into the slot. I had a buddy that
was working for a month on his computer because it wouldn't boot and
issued beep codes that indicated the video card was bad. A PCI video
card worked okay. He noticed a crack in the AGP slot shell and figured
it wasn't pressing hard enough against the pins. He returned that mobo
and got another but had the same problem. He eventually brought it into
work. Since I had heard of his tribulations, I sauntered in, saw what
he was doing, removed the PCI video card, inserted his old AGP video,
and it worked. After showing him that he had not fully seated his AGP
video card, I made a quick exit before he blew. After that, all I had
to do was smirk at him and he yell at me to shut up.

The Pro card will draw more power. Your motherboard may not be equipped
to handle the extra current draw of the Pro card while other newer
motherboards can. You need to make sure that the motherboard you use is
rated AGP *Pro* to supply enough current that card. You also better be
sure your power supply is capable of handling the wattage demands for
all your equipment, including the higher powered Pro video card. Unless
you get an Antec, Verax, Enermax, Fortron, or some other high quality
power supply, figure that the poor to fair quality units will only be
able to supply two-thirds of their rated power output. Some total up
all their power taps and say that is how much power they will supply but
the only real concern is the combined wattage output for the +5V, +12V,
and 3.3V taps. See http://tinyurl.com/jcvi and http://tinyurl.com/jcw0
for Tom's Hardware reviews. Also see ATI's tech article noting the
requirement for a [good] 300W power supply at http://tinyurl.com/jcwg.
If you are going to put in high-power components in your system, be sure
not only to get a power supply that is rated to handle at least a third
more than that but also a high quality unit that won't burn up or trip
(and not let you reset and restart; some will trip and become
permanently dead). If your unit is some generic that came with the
case, you might not even be able to identify its manufacturer, so
consider a bigger and better power supply as a mandatory upgrade if
you're going to upgrade the rest of the system with more power hungry
components.

By the way,
http://mirror.ati.com/products/radeo...pro/specs.html makes
mention of a connection to the power supply, so it must suck more
current than even the AGP Pro specification will handle (i.e., via the
AGP Pro slot). The manual at
http://mirror.ati.com/products/radeo...pro/specs.html
doesn't even discuss installing the hardware so there must be a separate
installation guide that they do not provide online. Is there some extra
power cable running to the Radeon 9700 Pro?


--
__________________________________________________ __________
** Share with others. Post replies in the newsgroup.
** If present, remove all "-nix" from my email address.
__________________________________________________ __________





 




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