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Why won't the new P4 CPUs work with my P4B266?



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 26th 04, 04:16 PM
xyz
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Default Why won't the new P4 CPUs work with my P4B266?

Since the Celeron processors are not recommended for multimedia use, it
would seem that I am forced to buy a new motherboard in order to accomodate
the latest P4 CPUs - how dumb is that. Or is there any way that they will
work with my ASUS P4B266?

Cheers


  #2  
Old January 26th 04, 04:55 PM
Stephan Grossklass
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xyz schrieb:

Since the Celeron processors are not recommended for multimedia use, it
would seem that I am forced to buy a new motherboard in order to accomodate
the latest P4 CPUs - how dumb is that. Or is there any way that they will
work with my ASUS P4B266?


It's unlikely that a FSB800 CPU would work (at least at stock speed),
but you could certainly try a FSB533 one - the i845D shouldn't have big
trouble with that speed albeit not being officially capable of 133 MHz
operation. I would, however, look whether you can set a 1/4 clock
divider for the PCI bus first. (Without that, you'd be pretty much
restricted to the more expensive FSB400 P4s.) Additionally a BIOS update
is likely to be necessary when installing a new CPU.

Stephan
--
Meine Andere Seite: http://stephan.win31.de/
PC#6: i440BX, 2xCel300A, 512 MiB, 18+80 GB, ATI AGP 32 MiB, 110W
This is a SCSI-inside, Legacy-plus, TCPA-free computer
Reply to newsgroup only. | See home page for working e-mail address.
  #3  
Old January 26th 04, 11:48 PM
Paul
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Default

In article , Stephan Grossklass
wrote:

xyz schrieb:

Since the Celeron processors are not recommended for multimedia use, it
would seem that I am forced to buy a new motherboard in order to accomodate
the latest P4 CPUs - how dumb is that. Or is there any way that they will
work with my ASUS P4B266?


It's unlikely that a FSB800 CPU would work (at least at stock speed),
but you could certainly try a FSB533 one - the i845D shouldn't have big
trouble with that speed albeit not being officially capable of 133 MHz
operation. I would, however, look whether you can set a 1/4 clock
divider for the PCI bus first. (Without that, you'd be pretty much
restricted to the more expensive FSB400 P4s.) Additionally a BIOS update
is likely to be necessary when installing a new CPU.

Stephan


This posting in Google gives an inventory of some of the hardware
on that motherboard:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...new s.tele.dk

It mentions an ICS950209 clock generator. Asus usually orders custom
clock generators, so there won't be a datasheet for it - the nearest one
may be this one:

http://www.icst.com/products/pdf/ics950208.pdf

See if this table lines up with the FSB choices listed in
the BIOS. This chip _might_ (no guarantees) be similar to
the one on your board. Any entry in this table with a PCI
clock speed above 37.5MHz or so, might not be too useful.
(I sometimes count the pins on the IC package, as a quick
check that the chip is in the same family or not. The 950208
is a 48 pin chip, so verify your 950209 has 48 pins as well,
before putting any faith in this table.)

ICS950208 FSB 3V66 PCI (3V66 = AGP ???, not sure)
0 0 0 0 0 102.00 68.00 34.00
0 0 0 0 1 105.00 70.00 35.00
0 0 0 1 0 108.00 72.00 36.00
0 0 0 1 1 111.00 74.00 37.00
0 0 1 0 0 114.00 76.00 38.00
0 0 1 0 1 117.00 78.00 39.00
0 0 1 1 0 120.00 80.00 40.00
0 0 1 1 1 123.00 82.00 41.00
0 1 0 0 0 126.00 72.00 36.00
0 1 0 0 1 130.00 74.30 37.10
0 1 0 1 0 136.00 68.00 34.00
0 1 0 1 1 140.00 70.00 35.00
0 1 1 0 0 144.00 72.00 36.00
0 1 1 0 1 148.00 74.00 37.00
0 1 1 1 0 152.00 76.00 38.00
0 1 1 1 1 156.00 78.00 39.00
1 0 0 0 0 160.00 80.00 40.00
1 0 0 0 1 164.00 82.00 41.00
1 0 0 1 0 166.60 66.60 33.30
1 0 0 1 1 170.00 68.00 34.00
1 0 1 0 0 175.00 70.00 35.00
1 0 1 0 1 180.00 72.00 36.00
1 0 1 1 0 185.00 74.00 37.00
1 0 1 1 1 190.00 76.00 38.00
1 1 0 0 0 66.80 66.80 33.40
1 1 0 0 1 100.20 66.80 33.40
1 1 0 1 0 133.60 66.80 33.40
1 1 0 1 1 200.40 66.80 33.40
1 1 1 0 0 66.60 66.60 33.30
1 1 1 0 1 100.00 66.60 33.30
1 1 1 1 0 200.00 66.60 33.30
1 1 1 1 1 133.33 66.60 33.30

It doesn't look like you are limited by the clock generator.

Another key element in overclocking, is the Northbridge. Some Intel
designs have tremendous overclock potential - it really depends on
whether the chip was introduced in the latest tech (say 0.13u) or
an older tech (like 0.18u). Based on the fact that the Google poster
listed at the top of this post got the board running at 133MHz=FSB533,
as Stephan says, there is a good chance a FSB533 processor will work.

The final thing to check, is Vcore power limits. Your board has a
three phase converter, and doesn't look completely crippled. To make
a guess at how much processor can be handled, download the datasheet
for a P4 2.2GHz FSB400 (the max listed in the Asus "cpusupport" web page)
and compare the power consumption to a datasheet for a FSB533 processor.
As Asus doesn't spec what the power limits are for their Vcore
implementations, that is the only method I know of, to determine
whether there is enough current there for a faster processor or not.
Since the early Celerons and P4s (0.18u) were such power pigs, there
is a good chance a faster 0.13u processor can be used. (I took
a quick look, and a 2GHz/400 P4 draws 57.4 amps, and a 2.2GHz would
be closer to 60 amps by extrapolation - comparing this to the 0.13u
P4 processors, a 2.8Ghz/533 is 55.9 amps and a 3.06Ghz/533HT is 65.4
amps. So, my guess is a 2.8Ghz/533 is as far as I would go. Since HT
wouldn't be working on your board, the 3.06GHz processor power consumption
will be less than 65 amps, and by extrapolating from the sub 3.06GHz
processors, with HT disabled it will be drawing 60 amps or so, which
is really too close to call due to the fact I'm extrapolating.)

For the BIOS, a couple of things could happen. The processor could
be misidentified (to the point of not posting) or it might only
result in a cosmetic problem during POST (not critical). Chances are
the BIOS will be missing the appropriate microcode patch, and if you
look for recipes in Google that use CTMC, you can also fix that.
Basically, you extract microcode from some other P4 board's microcode
entries in a more up-to-date BIOS file, then use CTMC to load it into
the BIOS chip.

Your ram will have to be up to the task as well. It looks like the
lowest divider for RAM is 1:1, so a 533 processor at stock speed will
be running the ram at DDR266 (PC2100 min).

So, to do your reverse engineering, you'll have a little homework to
do first.

HTH,
Paul
  #4  
Old January 27th 04, 03:26 AM
Dave Hau
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Default

For multimedia apps, keep in mind that performance is usually significantly
improved by hyperthreading, and by the increased memory bandwidth offered by
an 800MHz FSB and dual-channel memory, all of which would not be available
if you use an older motherboard.

In fact, I think a lot of the multimedia encoders like tmpgenc has
customized code to take advantage of hyperthreading on a P4 system. That
and SSE2 are why these multimedia apps usually perform better on a P4 system
than on a comparative athlon system.

- Dave



"xyz" wrote in message
...
Since the Celeron processors are not recommended for multimedia use, it
would seem that I am forced to buy a new motherboard in order to

accomodate
the latest P4 CPUs - how dumb is that. Or is there any way that they will
work with my ASUS P4B266?

Cheers




  #5  
Old January 28th 04, 11:46 PM
Clockīn Roll
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Posts: n/a
Default

Very nice to read that there still is another P4B266 alive :-)
My system:
ASUS P4B266 ( bios 1010, adjustable Vcore from 1,6V up to 2,1V
(jumpermode) )
2x 256mb PC2100
Celeron 2,4 w. standard cooler
5900XT
300W PSU

Iīm trying to learn a little bit more about this system too..still a newbee,
I think playing FPS games.
Running jumperfree mode.

For me most interesting:
!!! Only up to FSB 132 u can choose CPU/MEM divider 3:4. FSB 133 and more
results in 1:1 again.
3:4 means 175,6 Mhz times two (DDR)...!!!
Try it with your bios.Youīll see option AUTO and 1:1. Setting it to AUTO
results in a 1:1 too.... not good at all, as the board has option up to
FSB200.
(could be great, if bios1011beta could take care of that :-))
Without having influence, the motherboard sets:
AGP/PCI divider FSB100=2/3 AGP 1/3PCI.
AGP/PCI divider FSB133=1/2 AGP 1/4PCI.
between FSB110 and 120 your AGP/PCI BUS freq. will be ****ed up :-(
donīt know about FSB133.Would be nice to know thought.
Running FSB 132 means ( theory)::

266@351Mhz

Donīt want to push my RAM that hard, re-adjusted to FSB125 and 1,6Vcore...
rock solid system.
Looking for better RAM and some "real" P4 CPU now.

As in my opinion FSB132 is the best to get here,BUT
I SIMPLY DON`T KNOW, if I should go for an older 400Mhz ( for example
2,4@3,167) or a newer 533Mhz underclocking ( remember
the FSB132. for example 2,4@2,367) .Or some 3.0Ghz CPUīs mayby? Yust donīt
know. Help pls...
Worse ;-), there is an 3th poss.:
I like the jumperfree setting. But-once I found *s* somewhere*s*, a link
where it was poss. for someone to get FSB155 running with the jumpers. But
he had only CPU/MEM 1:1. So, I donīt think too much about it as the MEM
speed would only be at 310Mhz. Still. FSB155 with an 533CPU and MEM 310Mhz
might be better than (I donīt know wich CPU) keeping the MEM at 351Mhz.
Found a 1011beta bios for the board, but donīt dare to flash it as it was
only to find at two homepages on the internet...
Hope this was of some help for you and someone has some more advice for me
too...
Greetings :-)
ICQ 234486084








 




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