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This problem has baffled everyone...
The following problem has confounded every IT friend and support person i
have presented it to and appears to defy logic so i am throwing it to a broader audience of experts to see if it elicits some ideas. Thanks in advance for considering it and apologies for cross-group posting! Problem: Spontaneous power-offs that take place between 15 seconds and 30 minutes after booting. As if the power cord was yanked out of the back. Green M/B LED remains on, power cord has to be disconnected for several seconds before re-boot can take place. PC background: home-built 18 months ago, ran fine until last week. I have been building PCs for 15 years and have spent the last week running through every permutation of test i can think of, to no avail. Components tested (all of which have, in every configuration, replicated the problem): M/B Asus a7v333 latest bios Asus a7v8x-x v06 bios - rejects flash to latest 08 bios temp problem? No. M/B temp under 35 degrees c at time of power-down (have been staring at PC probe's temp montitor as it has gone down on 2 occasions. Immediate boot-ups after power-down reveal no discrepancies in bios-based temp monitor i.e. also reports 35 degrees c or under) CPU AMD Athlon 2100+ AMD Athlon 2500+ temp problem? No CPU temp under 40 degrees c at time of power-down (have been staring at PC probe's temp montitor as it has gone down on 2 occasions. Immediate boot-ups after power-down reveal no discrepancies in bios-based temp monitor i.e. also reports 40 degrees c or under). Bios-based auto-shutdown set at 95 degrees c HD 8GB Seagate- freshly fdisked/formatted but fails to complete winXp install (lasts between 15mins and 25 mins) before powering off 20GB IBM- Win98SE - exhibits power-down symptoms every time, works fine on other machines. Lasts the longest time, up to 30 mins, running in 640x480 res 80GB Maxtor - Win Xp Home - lasts the shortest time, rarely more than 15 minutes, power-offs can happen without any apps running but tends to happen within a few seconds of 3Dmark03 running and within 15 minutes of Norton AV2K4 running Software problem? No. problem replicated with winxp install on fresh disk. Also run each HD in isolation to others, i.e. with no other no HD IDE/power connections Graphics Radeon 9800pro - exhibits power-down symptoms every time, works fine on other machines Radeon 9700 Pro exhibits power-down symptoms every time, works fine on other machines GeForce Ti4600 - exhibits power-down symptoms every time, works fine on other machines Graphics card problem? maybe, but three different cards have replicated the problem. Run with default VGA drivers and latest drivers Memory 512Mb PC2700 Apacer CL2.5 512MB PC3200 Infineon CL 2.5 Memory problem? maybe, replicated with both DIMMS though. Could it be a voltage issue? everything set to default in bios and no voltage setting tampered with at any stage. PSU 300W unbranded, came with case 400W high quality, multi-fan Power problem? Dont know. the brand new 400w PSU immediately replicated the problem. Have tried 4 different power cords in two houses on 5 different sockets (!). All replicated the problem. Others: case - generic, have tried running the pc out of the case without any case jumper connections or any other connections other than PSU housing, using screwdriver to boot. CD, DVD, Floppy, Soundcard, USB expansion card, game card expansion, other USB connections - taken out/disonnected (ide, power etc) but problem still exists I have even tried, once an app is running, diconnecting mouse, keyboard and monitor (!!) with the problem still taking place. I have effectively changed PC entirely with these tests and still get this problem! One idea that was thrown out was a bios-residing virus. is there such a thing (i cannot find mention of one anywhere let alone scanning or removal methods)? Does anyone have any other ideas? Any help very much appreciated Nick ps Please post reply (e-mail address is false) |
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"Nick G" ignore @ nospam.com wrote in message
... The following problem has confounded every IT friend and support person i have presented it to and appears to defy logic so i am throwing it to a broader audience of experts to see if it elicits some ideas. Thanks in advance for considering it and apologies for cross-group posting! Problem: Spontaneous power-offs that take place between 15 seconds and 30 minutes after booting. As if the power cord was yanked out of the back. Green M/B LED remains on, power cord has to be disconnected for several seconds before re-boot can take place. One of the PCs under my supervision exhibits a similar problem. It very often shuts down when a CD is inserted into its CDRW drive. It then cannot be switched ON by pressing the power button, the PSU's rocker switch has to be flicked to OFF position for a few seconds then back to ON. Only then will the power button work as normal. ATX mobos have a flip-flop powered by the Vsb line (pin 9) that is under software and hardware control and sinks the PON line (pin 14) in order to turn ON the PSU. I suspect that something on the mobo overloads the Vsb line causing the FF to release line 14 and go into a latched state. I shall be looking at this PC in a few hours time so will post my findings. |
#3
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"Alien Zord" wrote in message
... "Nick G" ignore @ nospam.com wrote in message ... The following problem has confounded every IT friend and support person i have presented it to and appears to defy logic so i am throwing it to a broader audience of experts to see if it elicits some ideas. Thanks in advance for considering it and apologies for cross-group posting! Problem: Spontaneous power-offs that take place between 15 seconds and 30 minutes after booting. As if the power cord was yanked out of the back. Green M/B LED remains on, power cord has to be disconnected for several seconds before re-boot can take place. One of the PCs under my supervision exhibits a similar problem. It very often shuts down when a CD is inserted into its CDRW drive. It then cannot be switched ON by pressing the power button, the PSU's rocker switch has to be flicked to OFF position for a few seconds then back to ON. Only then will the power button work as normal. ATX mobos have a flip-flop powered by the Vsb line (pin 9) that is under software and hardware control and sinks the PON line (pin 14) in order to turn ON the PSU. I suspect that something on the mobo overloads the Vsb line causing the FF to release line 14 and go into a latched state. I shall be looking at this PC in a few hours time so will post my findings. I've had my session with the problem PC and this is what I found: When the PC shut itself down the Vsb remained normal and the PON pin was low indicating that the PSU was not shut down by the power control flip-flop. In fact holding the power button for 5 secs reset it to the OFF state and pressing it again powered up the PC as normal. So the PSU shut itself down via a different mechanism. Inserting a CD in the troublesome CDRW drive revealed why. When it spun the disc it sounded like a jet engine even vibrating the desk itself. The 12V line dropped to 9V indicating a large current drain and the PSU shut down about half a second later. So an overload on one of the supply lines can cause the PSU to switch off. Changed the CDRW (Ionics - a Philips subsidiary) for a Samsung and all is now well. If you have an access to a multimeter I suggest you check pin 9 (Vsb: +5V) and pin 14 (PON should be close to 0 when the PC is ON and close to Vsb when OFF). |
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I will hopefully get this checked tomorrow. Thanks v much for keeping me
informed. Nick I've had my session with the problem PC and this is what I found: When the PC shut itself down the Vsb remained normal and the PON pin was low indicating that the PSU was not shut down by the power control flip-flop. In fact holding the power button for 5 secs reset it to the OFF state and pressing it again powered up the PC as normal. So the PSU shut itself down via a different mechanism. Inserting a CD in the troublesome CDRW drive revealed why. When it spun the disc it sounded like a jet engine even vibrating the desk itself. The 12V line dropped to 9V indicating a large current drain and the PSU shut down about half a second later. So an overload on one of the supply lines can cause the PSU to switch off. Changed the CDRW (Ionics - a Philips subsidiary) for a Samsung and all is now well. If you have an access to a multimeter I suggest you check pin 9 (Vsb: +5V) and pin 14 (PON should be close to 0 when the PC is ON and close to Vsb when OFF). |
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Nick G wrote:
The following problem has confounded every IT friend and support person i have presented it to and appears to defy logic so i am throwing it to a broader audience of experts to see if it elicits some ideas. Thanks in advance for considering it and apologies for cross-group posting! Problem: Spontaneous power-offs that take place between 15 seconds and 30 minutes after booting. As if the power cord was yanked out of the back. Green M/B LED remains on, power cord has to be disconnected for several seconds before re-boot can take place. PC background: home-built 18 months ago, ran fine until last week. I have been building PCs for 15 years and have spent the last week running through every permutation of test i can think of, to no avail. Components tested (all of which have, in every configuration, replicated the problem): M/B Asus a7v333 latest bios Asus a7v8x-x v06 bios - rejects flash to latest 08 bios temp problem? No. M/B temp under 35 degrees c at time of power-down (have been staring at PC probe's temp montitor as it has gone down on 2 occasions. Immediate boot-ups after power-down reveal no discrepancies in bios-based temp monitor i.e. also reports 35 degrees c or under) CPU AMD Athlon 2100+ AMD Athlon 2500+ temp problem? No CPU temp under 40 degrees c at time of power-down (have been staring at PC probe's temp montitor as it has gone down on 2 occasions. Immediate boot-ups after power-down reveal no discrepancies in bios-based temp monitor i.e. also reports 40 degrees c or under). Bios-based auto-shutdown set at 95 degrees c HD 8GB Seagate- freshly fdisked/formatted but fails to complete winXp install (lasts between 15mins and 25 mins) before powering off 20GB IBM- Win98SE - exhibits power-down symptoms every time, works fine on other machines. Lasts the longest time, up to 30 mins, running in 640x480 res 80GB Maxtor - Win Xp Home - lasts the shortest time, rarely more than 15 minutes, power-offs can happen without any apps running but tends to happen within a few seconds of 3Dmark03 running and within 15 minutes of Norton AV2K4 running Software problem? No. problem replicated with winxp install on fresh disk. Also run each HD in isolation to others, i.e. with no other no HD IDE/power connections Graphics Radeon 9800pro - exhibits power-down symptoms every time, works fine on other machines Radeon 9700 Pro exhibits power-down symptoms every time, works fine on other machines GeForce Ti4600 - exhibits power-down symptoms every time, works fine on other machines Graphics card problem? maybe, but three different cards have replicated the problem. Run with default VGA drivers and latest drivers Memory 512Mb PC2700 Apacer CL2.5 512MB PC3200 Infineon CL 2.5 Memory problem? maybe, replicated with both DIMMS though. Could it be a voltage issue? everything set to default in bios and no voltage setting tampered with at any stage. PSU 300W unbranded, came with case 400W high quality, multi-fan Power problem? Dont know. the brand new 400w PSU immediately replicated the problem. Have tried 4 different power cords in two houses on 5 different sockets (!). All replicated the problem. Others: case - generic, have tried running the pc out of the case without any case jumper connections or any other connections other than PSU housing, using screwdriver to boot. CD, DVD, Floppy, Soundcard, USB expansion card, game card expansion, other USB connections - taken out/disonnected (ide, power etc) but problem still exists I have even tried, once an app is running, diconnecting mouse, keyboard and monitor (!!) with the problem still taking place. I have effectively changed PC entirely with these tests and still get this problem! One idea that was thrown out was a bios-residing virus. is there such a thing (i cannot find mention of one anywhere let alone scanning or removal methods)? I had an Asus A7V that did something very similar. Also another A7V which would power on unless it was disconnected from the AC mains for a brief period. In the case of the latter, a _good quality_ power supply fixed the problem. Search http://a7vtroubleshooting.com/ for issues specific to the A7V333. |
#6
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:18:56 +0000 (UTC), "Nick G" ignore @ nospam.com
wrote: The following problem has confounded every IT friend and support person i have presented it to and appears to defy logic so i am throwing it to a broader audience of experts to see if it elicits some ideas. Thanks in advance for considering it and apologies for cross-group posting! Problem: Spontaneous power-offs that take place between 15 seconds and 30 minutes after booting. As if the power cord was yanked out of the back. Green M/B LED remains on, power cord has to be disconnected for several seconds before re-boot can take place. To clairify, every time it powers off, you MUST disconnect AC cord (or flip PSU rear switch) to get it working again, you can't just wait a few, say 3 minutes, and it'll come on again? PC background: home-built 18 months ago, ran fine until last week. I have been building PCs for 15 years and have spent the last week running through every permutation of test i can think of, to no avail. Components tested (all of which have, in every configuration, replicated the problem): M/B Asus a7v333 latest bios Asus a7v8x-x v06 bios - rejects flash to latest 08 bios temp problem? No. M/B temp under 35 degrees c at time of power-down (have been staring at PC probe's temp montitor as it has gone down on 2 occasions. Immediate boot-ups after power-down reveal no discrepancies in bios-based temp monitor i.e. also reports 35 degrees c or under) You switched boards, so for the time being we can assume it's not the board, but what about the OS install? Did you do a clean install, or is it possible there's a virus jumping from drive to drive, or residing on another system on a LAN? CPU AMD Athlon 2100+ AMD Athlon 2500+ temp problem? No CPU temp under 40 degrees c at time of power-down (have been staring at PC probe's temp montitor as it has gone down on 2 occasions. Immediate boot-ups after power-down reveal no discrepancies in bios-based temp monitor i.e. also reports 40 degrees c or under). Bios-based auto-shutdown set at 95 degrees c What about the CPU heatsink? Is it one known to have problems, like those TMD fans that were prone to short out? Even if another type of fan, I'd try switching the CPU heatsink fan if you hadn't done so already. HD 8GB Seagate- freshly fdisked/formatted but fails to complete winXp install (lasts between 15mins and 25 mins) before powering off OK, that rules out the virus possibility, assuming you were not always booting from one of the HDDs or an infected floppy, CDR, etc, before trying to install the OS. In theory, a virus could be attached to a motherboard BIOS, but realistically, it would have to be a very specific targeted, engineered attack... not a reasonable consideration for a system that still posts, boots, and anyone with the skill to do it, could find far better ways to spend their time destructively if that was their goal... a BIOS virus is just not likely enough to be worth considering. 20GB IBM- Win98SE - exhibits power-down symptoms every time, works fine on other machines. Lasts the longest time, up to 30 mins, running in 640x480 res 80GB Maxtor - Win Xp Home - lasts the shortest time, rarely more than 15 minutes, power-offs can happen without any apps running but tends to happen within a few seconds of 3Dmark03 running and within 15 minutes of Norton AV2K4 running Software problem? No. problem replicated with winxp install on fresh disk. Also run each HD in isolation to others, i.e. with no other no HD IDE/power connections Graphics Radeon 9800pro - exhibits power-down symptoms every time, works fine on other machines Radeon 9700 Pro exhibits power-down symptoms every time, works fine on other machines GeForce Ti4600 - exhibits power-down symptoms every time, works fine on other machines Graphics card problem? maybe, but three different cards have replicated the problem. Run with default VGA drivers and latest drivers No, can't be a graphics can problem with all of 'em exhibiting the same problem, though you probably should've tried a more modest, less power hungry card, would isolate heat and power issues more. Memory 512Mb PC2700 Apacer CL2.5 512MB PC3200 Infineon CL 2.5 Memory problem? maybe, replicated with both DIMMS though. Could it be a voltage issue? everything set to default in bios and no voltage setting tampered with at any stage. "replicated with both" isn't specific. Do you mean, you tried each DIMM separately, in each board? I'll assume so. PSU 300W unbranded, came with case You should've never even hooked this one up to a system, especially not with any of the above video cards. Any number of components could be damaged because of this power supply. We can hope that didn't happen. 400W high quality, multi-fan Not to be picky, but specific make/model is more useful than telling us, "high quality, multi fan". For example, some people think Enermax is high quality, but might not be adequate for the parts you've mentioned above, due to insufficient 3V/5V rail capacity. I've even seen people claiming that trashy power supplies, like Kingwin or Turbolink, were high quality. You could be quite right, that your new 400W IS high quality, but if you hadn't mentioned it, I'd have guessed the power supply was the most likely culprit. Power problem? Dont know. the brand new 400w PSU immediately replicated the problem. Have tried 4 different power cords in two houses on 5 different sockets (!). All replicated the problem. Your voltage levels are good, checked with a voltage meter? A high 12V rail can also indicate a problem with the 3V/5V rail that is still at correct voltage reading. Others: case - generic, have tried running the pc out of the case without any case jumper connections or any other connections other than PSU housing, using screwdriver to boot. You didn't happen to put the boards on anti-static bags? Some conduct electricity. CD, DVD, Floppy, Soundcard, USB expansion card, game card expansion, other USB connections - taken out/disonnected (ide, power etc) but problem still exists So the above list, is meaning that you removed ALL cards, devices, etc, that with only the HDD, video, and a single DIMM the system still powers off? I have even tried, once an app is running, diconnecting mouse, keyboard and monitor (!!) with the problem still taking place. I have effectively changed PC entirely with these tests and still get this problem! Makes me think about the CPU heatsink fan again. One idea that was thrown out was a bios-residing virus. is there such a thing (i cannot find mention of one anywhere let alone scanning or removal methods)? Not a realistic concern, but you could always set bios to disable the antivirus safeguard, and reflash the same bios version as it already has (or even an earlier version) since you reported that it wouldn't accept the latest version... which it itself is a bit puzzling unless you hadn't disabled the BIOS virus protection and/or related jumper (I "think" those use a bios setting, it was older boards that had a jumper, but I'm not certain of it). Does anyone have any other ideas? Any other household applicances, lights, etc, exhibiting strange behaviour? |
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Thanks for your response. Answers/comments below:
To clairify, every time it powers off, you MUST disconnect AC cord (or flip PSU rear switch) to get it working again, you can't just wait a few, say 3 minutes, and it'll come on again? it will power up again after around 5 seconds of power cord disconnection (roughly the same time it takes the m/b led to go out) You switched boards, so for the time being we can assume it's not the board, but what about the OS install? Did you do a clean install, or is it possible there's a virus jumping from drive to drive, or residing on another system on a LAN? Yup tried a clean install of winxp home on a freshly fdisked/formatted 8Gb HD. It fails to get to the end of the install before powering off. This was conducted with no other network connection or drives connected (either power or IDE cable) so unless the virus resides in the flashable part of the bios (extremely unlikely) there is no way a virus could be the cause of this. What about the CPU heatsink? Is it one known to have problems, like those TMD fans that were prone to short out? Even if another type of fan, I'd try switching the CPU heatsink fan if you hadn't done so already. Tried 2 heatsinks and fans. the 2100+ is a retail version and I tried the AMD hs/f fan as well as a new hs/f bought last week. Tried on both CPUs. Bios and PCProbe report temp and fan speed to be well within normal parameters. Both visually look to be operating fine and there is little evidence of excessive heat levels from touching the hs. In theory, a virus could be attached to a motherboard BIOS, but realistically, it would have to be a very specific targeted, engineered attack... not a reasonable consideration for a system that still posts, boots, and anyone with the skill to do it, could find far better ways to spend their time destructively if that was their goal... a BIOS virus is just not likely enough to be worth considering. I agree No, can't be a graphics can problem with all of 'em exhibiting the same problem, though you probably should've tried a more modest, less power hungry card, would isolate heat and power issues more. agreed although, it ran fine with the 4600 for 17 months and the 9800 pro for around a month. "replicated with both" isn't specific. Do you mean, you tried each DIMM separately, in each board? I'll assume so. Sorry, yes, both tried separately on both boards PSU 300W unbranded, came with case You should've never even hooked this one up to a system, especially not with any of the above video cards. Any number of components could be damaged because of this power supply. We can hope that didn't happen. I would tend to agree except that it ran fine with the 9800pro (most recent addition) for around a month during which the card received intense use (no o/cing i might add, just lots of games). 400W high quality, multi-fan Not to be picky, but specific make/model is more useful than telling us, "high quality, multi fan". For example, some people think Enermax is high quality, but might not be adequate for the parts you've mentioned above, due to insufficient 3V/5V rail capacity. I've even seen people claiming that trashy power supplies, like Kingwin or Turbolink, were high quality. the 400w PSU is made by Q-Tec and is not running the monitor (separate power). It is the recommended PSU from Maplin (a specialist UK tech/electronics components company). I dont think i need more than 400w as i simply do not have enough components to require that power. however, i do accept that given the symptoms it may well be that the psu or some other power problem is at the root of this. The chances, however, of encountering exactly the same problem with two different PSUs seems remote. Your voltage levels are good, checked with a voltage meter? A high 12V rail can also indicate a problem with the 3V/5V rail that is still at correct voltage reading. I have yet to check voltage and would be beginning to get out of my depth. PCprobe and the bios both reveal that voltage is within acceptable parameters but i guess i might have missed spikes You didn't happen to put the boards on anti-static bags? Some conduct electricity. no, on paper. So the above list, is meaning that you removed ALL cards, devices, etc, that with only the HDD, video, and a single DIMM the system still powers off? yes, but only in windows or during the install. it has yet to power off whilst in the bios Not a realistic concern, but you could always set bios to disable the antivirus safeguard, and reflash the same bios version as it already has (or even an earlier version) since you reported that it wouldn't accept the latest version... which it itself is a bit puzzling unless you hadn't disabled the BIOS virus protection and/or related jumper (I "think" those use a bios setting, it was older boards that had a jumper, but I'm not certain of it). tried disabling and enabling. no change. Any other household applicances, lights, etc, exhibiting strange behaviour? no. tried in two different houses too! |
#8
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:43:51 +0000 (UTC), "Nick G" ignore @ nospam.com
wrote: snip PSU 300W unbranded, came with case You should've never even hooked this one up to a system, especially not with any of the above video cards. Any number of components could be damaged because of this power supply. We can hope that didn't happen. I would tend to agree except that it ran fine with the 9800pro (most recent addition) for around a month during which the card received intense use (no o/cing i might add, just lots of games). I don't think you understand. Not all damage is so immediate as, 1st try, smoke pours out of box. 400W high quality, multi-fan Not to be picky, but specific make/model is more useful than telling us, "high quality, multi fan". For example, some people think Enermax is high quality, but might not be adequate for the parts you've mentioned above, due to insufficient 3V/5V rail capacity. I've even seen people claiming that trashy power supplies, like Kingwin or Turbolink, were high quality. the 400w PSU is made by Q-Tec and is not running the monitor (separate power). It is the recommended PSU from Maplin (a specialist UK tech/electronics components company). I dont think i need more than 400w as i simply do not have enough components to require that power. however, i do accept that given the symptoms it may well be that the psu or some other power problem is at the root of this. The chances, however, of encountering exactly the same problem with two different PSUs seems remote. Q-Tec is NOT a high quality power supply. Your system doesn't need 400W, but, the Q-Tec may not even be able to supply 300W, regardless of it's labeling. Maplin likely recommends it because it has the highest profit margin... Some 'sites sell 400W Q-Tec for less than 1/3 the price of a 430W Antec... ever wonder why? It's not at all unlikely that you're seeing the same problem from 2 different power supplies, if neither of them can adequate capacity to supply enough power. You can stack up low (true) capacity power supplies and see the same problem over and over again, it's not significant that it's happened with two different units. I cannot be sure this (power supply) is your problem, but now I certainly wouldn't assume it isn't the power supply, would take a closer look at that possibility. Actually, the need to pull the AC from a system usually IS a power supply problem, either the unit itself or at least an indirect power supply problem like a board shorting out, a fan shorting out, wires frayed against a drive cage or similar power issue, where the power supply's current or voltage monitoring senses the problem and shuts off the supply. yes, but only in windows or during the install. it has yet to power off whilst in the bios Have you ever left it sitting in the bios for extended periods of time? You might try that if not. |
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Hi,
Was unaware of the residual damage potential. Interesting, thought it does not necessarily get me closer to id'ing the offending part: However your PSU points are noted. I do actually suspect that it is power-related and will have someone check the voltage tomorrow. Guess i failed to see how a brand new PSU can fail to run what is a pretty ordinary PC set up... The bios runs fine for longer than any other configuration but i have not left it going for over 45 mins or so. will test that now. Many thanks N Q-Tec is NOT a high quality power supply. Your system doesn't need 400W, but, the Q-Tec may not even be able to supply 300W, regardless of it's labeling. Maplin likely recommends it because it has the highest profit margin... Some 'sites sell 400W Q-Tec for less than 1/3 the price of a 430W Antec... ever wonder why? It's not at all unlikely that you're seeing the same problem from 2 different power supplies, if neither of them can adequate capacity to supply enough power. You can stack up low (true) capacity power supplies and see the same problem over and over again, it's not significant that it's happened with two different units. I cannot be sure this (power supply) is your problem, but now I certainly wouldn't assume it isn't the power supply, would take a closer look at that possibility. Actually, the need to pull the AC from a system usually IS a power supply problem, either the unit itself or at least an indirect power supply problem like a board shorting out, a fan shorting out, wires frayed against a drive cage or similar power issue, where the power supply's current or voltage monitoring senses the problem and shuts off the supply. yes, but only in windows or during the install. it has yet to power off whilst in the bios Have you ever left it sitting in the bios for extended periods of time? You might try that if not. |
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"Nick G" ignore @ nospam.com wrote in message ... Thanks for your response. Answers/comments below: the 400w PSU is made by Q-Tec and is not running the monitor (separate power). It is the recommended PSU from Maplin (a specialist UK tech/electronics components company). I dont think i need more than 400w as i simply do not have enough components to require that power. however, i do accept that given the symptoms it may well be that the psu or some other power problem is at the root of this. The chances, however, of encountering exactly the same problem with two different PSUs seems remote. Can I just chip in here and suggest a different PSU as maplin know jack sh%# about anything to do with computers. I have a variety of PSU units here that caused problems similar to yours and two of them are newish Q Tec 400 watters. You can get a resonable 400 watt unit made by Nexus from Novatec for 55 quid. -- Mantric |
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