best cloning method?

Clive wrote
wrote

I'm beyond aggravated. I've upgraged dozens of hard drives in the
past using the floppy to format the new drive and copy the original
drive over to the new one. Apparently the days of simplicity are
over. I tried using the Maxtor Maxblast software since the new
drive is a Maxtor 80g ata133 7200rpm (the old is a 28g Western
Digital.) Maxtor says to use the Windows based version of the
program. In the oldern days there was no such thing, and for good
reason - if any files are in use in your Windows session, how will
you be able to copy them to the new drive sucessfully? This results
in failed attempt number one, since when I reboot all the Norton
software on the system is messed up. Systemworks 2006 needs to be
reactivated. Antivirus 2006 shows that it's running in the system
tray, but the system checker thing says that no antivirus software
is present. Blah, blah, blah - bottom line - it didn't work. So I
start over and use the DOS version of the software off of a bootable
CD. I format the new drive, but the automatic process of asking if
you want to copy everything over and make the new drive the boot
drive is mysteriously gone. So I manually use the utility that
copies a hard drive partition to move the old drive to the new. Only the
new drive won't boot. Apparently when you format it, the
program sticks some files on the drive depending on what OS you
intend to install later. Maybe this is the cause of the problem now
- I don't know for sure. I give up. I try one more time with the
Windows version, but this time I went into the startup section of
msconfig to disable every single Norton product and then manually
stopped another 4 or 5 Symantec processes in the task manager. Surely it
would work this time. Nope. Identical problem - no
antivirus installed and every attempt to uninstall or reinstall
fails miserably. Is there a nice simple DOS program that I can run
that will format the new drive, copy the old to the new, and make
the new drive bootable? Thanks in advance for any help.

I've used cloning software over many years starting with the first
version of Ghost and through to the latest versions of True Image.

I now think the age of disk cloning has gone

Nope.

(IMHO - Flame suit ON). Reasons?

1. With people changing hardware so often, many problems occur when
trying to clone a disk image onto new hardware.

Nope, and none that arent trivially fixable.

2. How often do people really do a full clone?

Mostly when upgrading a drive to a larger one or moving to
a whole new system. Cloning is still the best way to do both.

3. Windows becomes full of useless, old, corrupt drivers, software.

No it doesnt.

4. Just look at the problems posted in this group?

Nothing to do with cloning. And those who post about problems
are always a tiny subset of those who have no problems.

Personally I now copy/backup the Documents and setting folders;

FAR too primitive. That doesnt save the settings and config stuff.

that way I just install my existing or new operating system on to my
original or new hardware or new hard disk. Install all updates,
patches, latest drivers and then copy what data I really need from my
backups of Documents and setting.

You'd be much better off using the Files and Setting
Transfer Wizard with a system that is working fine.

Much better again to clone instead.

wrote:
BTW - the free version of Casper won't partition the
extra space on a new larger drive, so only 28g of the
new 80g drive would be usable...

How did you come the *that* conclusion? There is
no 28GB limit that *I've* ever come across, and I've
placed clones on at least 120GB of new drive space.
Casper offers to put a clone into an existing partition
(which you can make with Disk Management) or it
can make a partition in unallocated space of the size
that you designate. I suspect that you've misread
something or read some spurious comment on an
online forum. Just download Casper XP and try it.
You'll like it.

*TimDaniels*

wrote:
I used True Image to clone the disk using the clone drive wizard.
Everything seemed to work fine and it copied everything rather quickly,
a nice surprise, HOWEVER... there is a really wierd situation now.
The new 80gig drive is set as the master drive. When I boot into
windows it is the only drive that shows in Windows Explorer even though
the old drive is still connected as a slave. Wierder still is that if
I disconnect the old drive the computer will not boot into windows -
instead giving an error message that it cannot locate a boot disk, or
boot file or something like that. When I reconnect the old drive as
the slave it boots into windows on the new drive with no problem.
Bizarre. Windows doesn't even show the old drive, but it can't boot
the new drive without it. Can anyone shed some light on this.


When you look with Windows Explorer, how do you know you're
looking at the new HD? What do you see when you look with
Disk Management? (rt-clk MyComputer, select Manage, select
Disk Management.) The size given for each HD is one way to
identify the HDs.

*TimDaniels*

wrote:
OK folks -
I used True Image to clone the disk using the clone drive wizard.
Everything seemed to work fine and it copied everything rather
quickly, a nice surprise, HOWEVER... there is a really wierd
situation now.
The new 80gig drive is set as the master drive. When I boot into
windows it is the only drive that shows in Windows Explorer even
though the old drive is still connected as a slave. Wierder still is
that if I disconnect the old drive the computer will not boot into
windows - instead giving an error message that it cannot locate a
boot disk, or boot file or something like that. When I reconnect the
old drive as the slave it boots into windows on the new drive with no
problem. Bizarre.

Nope, very common problem. You booted the new drive with
the old drive visible to the system for the first boot after the clone.

Windows doesn't even show the old drive, but it can't boot
the new drive without it. Can anyone shed some light on this.

See above.

I'd love to have this work the way it should.

Just do it again, and this time unplug the old drive for the
first boot after the clone. Once XP has claimed to have
found new hardware and asked for a reboot, and has
been allowed to do that, you can reconnect the old
drive again and everything will work fine.

I truly can't believe how complicated this
process has become in the past couple years.

Nothing 'complicated' about the above sequence.

This used to take me one try and an hour out of
my day - this is going on my fourth try and countless
hours at this point. Thanks all for the help so far.

BTW - the free version of Casper won't partition the
extra space on a new larger drive, so only 28g of the
new 80g drive would be usable, so I didn't even try it.

Yeah, its pretty limited capability wise.

wrote in message
oups.com...
OK folks -
I used True Image to clone the disk using the clone drive wizard.
Everything seemed to work fine and it copied everything rather quickly,
a nice surprise, HOWEVER... there is a really wierd situation now.
The new 80gig drive is set as the master drive. When I boot into
windows it is the only drive that shows in Windows Explorer even though
the old drive is still connected as a slave. Wierder still is that if
I disconnect the old drive the computer will not boot into windows -
instead giving an error message that it cannot locate a boot disk, or
boot file or something like that. When I reconnect the old drive as
the slave it boots into windows on the new drive with no problem.
Bizarre. Windows doesn't even show the old drive, but it can't boot
the new drive without it. Can anyone shed some light on this. I'd
love to have this work the way it should. I truly can't believe how
complicated this process has become in the past couple years. This
used to take me one try and an hour out of my day - this is going on my
fourth try and countless hours at this point. Thanks all for the help
so far.

BTW - the free version of Casper won't partition the extra space on a
new larger drive, so only 28g of the new 80g drive would be usable, so
I didn't even try it.


stevsai:
While I'm not entirely sure from your description of the problem and how you
arrived at your present state, let me offer the following and see if it's
relevant to your situation...

After you cloned the contents of your "old" HD to the "new" one you should
have made the initial boot to the newly-cloned HD with the old (source) HD
disconnected. It's important that the *initial* boot to the newly-cloned HD
be made with *only* that HD connected (as Tim Daniels has stressed a number
of times).

Is it possible that following the cloning operation you booted to the
newly-cloned HD (which you now connected as Primary Master) while the "old"
HD was still connected in the system (regardless of its position on the IDE
channel)? If that is what occurred I think I can shed some light on the
events that followed. So let me know if that indeed was the case.
Anna

On 22 Mar 2006 17:35:26 -0800, wrote:

OK folks -
I used True Image to clone the disk using the clone drive wizard.
Everything seemed to work fine and it copied everything rather quickly,
a nice surprise, HOWEVER... there is a really wierd situation now.
The new 80gig drive is set as the master drive. When I boot into
windows it is the only drive that shows in Windows Explorer even though
the old drive is still connected as a slave. Wierder still is that if
I disconnect the old drive the computer will not boot into windows -
instead giving an error message that it cannot locate a boot disk, or
boot file or something like that. When I reconnect the old drive as
the slave it boots into windows on the new drive with no problem.
Bizarre. Windows doesn't even show the old drive, but it can't boot
the new drive without it.

Are you saying that Disk Managment does not show the old drive?

Can anyone shed some light on this. I'd
love to have this work the way it should. I truly can't believe how
complicated this process has become in the past couple years. This
used to take me one try and an hour out of my day - this is going on my
fourth try and countless hours at this point. Thanks all for the help
so far.

The quickest way to get going is to save the old drive's MBR to a
floppy disk. http://mirror.href.com/thestarman/asm/mbr/MBRWiz.html
Then remove the old drive and replace it with the clone. Then restore
the clone's MBR with the saved MBR. This should enable the clone to
boot by itself.


BTW - the free version of Casper won't partition the extra space on a
new larger drive, so only 28g of the new 80g drive would be usable, so
I didn't even try it.

Andy wrote:
On 22 Mar 2006 17:35:26 -0800, wrote:

OK folks -
I used True Image to clone the disk using the clone drive wizard.
Everything seemed to work fine and it copied everything rather
quickly, a nice surprise, HOWEVER... there is a really wierd
situation now.
The new 80gig drive is set as the master drive. When I boot into
windows it is the only drive that shows in Windows Explorer even
though the old drive is still connected as a slave. Wierder still
is that if I disconnect the old drive the computer will not boot
into windows - instead giving an error message that it cannot locate
a boot disk, or boot file or something like that. When I reconnect
the old drive as the slave it boots into windows on the new drive
with no problem. Bizarre. Windows doesn't even show the old drive,
but it can't boot the new drive without it.

Are you saying that Disk Managment does not show the old drive?

Can anyone shed some light on this. I'd
love to have this work the way it should. I truly can't believe how
complicated this process has become in the past couple years. This
used to take me one try and an hour out of my day - this is going on
my fourth try and countless hours at this point. Thanks all for the
help so far.

The quickest way to get going is to save the old drive's MBR to a
floppy disk. http://mirror.href.com/thestarman/asm/mbr/MBRWiz.html
Then remove the old drive and replace it with the clone. Then restore
the clone's MBR with the saved MBR. This should enable the clone to
boot by itself.

Not when you stuffed it up by booting the clone with the original visible
you cant.

BTW - the free version of Casper won't partition the extra space on a
new larger drive, so only 28g of the new 80g drive would be usable,
so I didn't even try it.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:44:00 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



Hardly anyone is silly enough to do single partition cloning.



Rod, I take exception to that. I and others do periodic system
reinstalls on several 300G drives I have due to all the clutter that
quickly accumulates. I sure don't want to clone 250G of MPs and
photos. What I do is keep a fresh install of Xp and other apps on a
40G drive and only clone the first partition of the main larger drive.
All takes less than 15 minutes.

wrote:
Rod Speed wrote

Hardly anyone is silly enough to do single partition cloning.

Rod, I take exception to that. I and others do periodic system
reinstalls on several 300G drives I have due to all the clutter that
quickly accumulates. I sure don't want to clone 250G of MPs and
photos. What I do is keep a fresh install of Xp and other apps on a
40G drive and only clone the first partition of the main larger drive.
All takes less than 15 minutes.

It makes a lot more sense to image instead of clone.

That way you can compress the image and keep more copys,
and you can incrementally image with a decent modern imager
and thats much quicker again, so quick that you can image the
OS partition before installing anything or reconfiguring anything
just in case the system restore doesnt work if things go pear shaped.

The only real advantage with cloning instead of imaging is that
you can come back quicker on a hard drive failure, and few
personal desktop systems need to do that, and those that
do should be using OS level shadowing, not cloning, so they
can come back even quicker than you can with cloning and
are always completely up to date.

Can you hear the noise of the razor blade dragging across my wrist?
This is not going well. I tried again with True Image - this time I
disconnected the old drive at the end of the cloning process and the
the new disc would not boot. Same error that there was no boot disk.
Hooked the old drive up and booted into Windows (on the old drive)
which saw the new drive in Windows Explorer. Then set the boot
sequence in the bios to boot off the new drive which it did, but then
reverted to the original problem that it won't boot the new drive
unless the old drive is hooked up and it won't see the old drive once
I'm into Windows. I don't seem to be able to get the MBR onto the new
drive and disconnect the old one before messing up the XP
configuration. I think I give up on True Image.

As far as Casper goes. My statement that it won't partition the extra
space comes from the manufacturer's website, although I have to admit
that your use of the word 'spurious' let everyone know that you meant
business! And I quote -
"While fully operational, this trial version does not provide support
for volume resizing. For example, using the trial version of Casper XP
to copy a 10GB drive to a new 100GB hard disk will result in a 10GB
copy being created on the 100GB hard disk; the additional 90GB of space
on the new hard disk will remain unpartitioned space." This makes the
free version perfectly useless to me and I don't feel like dishing out
$50 just to clone a damn drive.

This leaves me with the possibility of Ghost- I actually have a copy of
2003 that I just installed, but have no idea how to use it yet. I am
still looking for the simple way to clone a hd and have the damn thing
boot up and have all the programs work on it. Believe me - I'm still
listening with both ears if anyone has any other suggestions. I'll
post back about how Ghost works out. If anyone has any tips for using
Ghost I'd love to hear that as well. Thanks all for the continued help
in this nightmare.