?A thermally conductive dielectric putty/clay ?

Anybody know of such a substance? I want to
try pressing the back of the Motherboard into
something with the expansion coil from an air
conditioner imbedded in it. Maybe the conformal
coating would prevent shorting but I'm a little
leery of using an electrically conductive substance.

I'm thinking that I could branch the lines so that
I had a branch go to this MB pan/plate and another
branch, on quick connects, to CPU, GPU and
Chipset Blocks. I would have both lines on quick
connects where they enter the computer case. A
set of flexible lines would run from the wall to the
case. The rest of the airconditioner would be
outside (just like the central air).

Luck;
Ken

"Ken Maltby" wrote in message
...
Anybody know of such a substance? I want to
try pressing the back of the Motherboard into
something with the expansion coil from an air
conditioner imbedded in it.

Why would you want to do this?
ME

Maybe the conformal
coating would prevent shorting but I'm a little
leery of using an electrically conductive substance.

I'm thinking that I could branch the lines so that
I had a branch go to this MB pan/plate and another
branch, on quick connects, to CPU, GPU and
Chipset Blocks. I would have both lines on quick
connects where they enter the computer case. A
set of flexible lines would run from the wall to the
case. The rest of the airconditioner would be
outside (just like the central air).

Luck;
Ken

The glass/epoxy resin material from which motherboards are made is a very
good heat insulator. Conductive cooling will not be much of an advantage
over plain old convective air cooling since little heat makes it through the
motherboard. Also, because of the insulating effect, there will not be much
effect on the components mounted on the top of the motherboard. Quick
disconnects in an air conditioning system aren't really a good idea... there
will always be a loss of gaseous coolant (and lubricant) when the
connections are made and broken. How about using the air conditioner (phase
change refrigeration) to chill water, then circulating the water through
cooling blocks on the components that produce lots of heat (CPU, GPU, memory
modules, and chipset main chip)? Quick connect attachments on the low
pressure water line might leak a bit when making or breaking, but not enough
to be a problem, compared to a high pressure coolant line.

--
Phil Weldon, pweldonatmindjumpdotcom
For communication,
replace "at" with the 'at sign'
replace "mindjump" with "mindspring."
replace "dot" with "."

"Ken Maltby" wrote in message
...
Anybody know of such a substance? I want to
try pressing the back of the Motherboard into
something with the expansion coil from an air
conditioner imbedded in it. Maybe the conformal
coating would prevent shorting but I'm a little
leery of using an electrically conductive substance.

I'm thinking that I could branch the lines so that
I had a branch go to this MB pan/plate and another
branch, on quick connects, to CPU, GPU and
Chipset Blocks. I would have both lines on quick
connects where they enter the computer case. A
set of flexible lines would run from the wall to the
case. The rest of the airconditioner would be
outside (just like the central air).

Luck;
Ken

"Ken Maltby" wrote in message
...
Anybody know of such a substance? I want to
try pressing the back of the Motherboard into
something with the expansion coil from an air
conditioner imbedded in it. Maybe the conformal
coating would prevent shorting but I'm a little
leery of using an electrically conductive substance.

I'm thinking that I could branch the lines so that
I had a branch go to this MB pan/plate and another
branch, on quick connects, to CPU, GPU and
Chipset Blocks. I would have both lines on quick
connects where they enter the computer case. A
set of flexible lines would run from the wall to the
case. The rest of the airconditioner would be
outside (just like the central air).

Luck;
Ken


"Phil Weldon" wrote in message
ink.net...
The glass/epoxy resin material from which motherboards are made is a very
good heat insulator. Conductive cooling will not be much of an advantage
over plain old convective air cooling since little heat makes it through
the
motherboard. Also, because of the insulating effect, there will not be
much
effect on the components mounted on the top of the motherboard. Quick
disconnects in an air conditioning system aren't really a good idea...
there
will always be a loss of gaseous coolant (and lubricant) when the
connections are made and broken. How about using the air conditioner
(phase
change refrigeration) to chill water, then circulating the water through
cooling blocks on the components that produce lots of heat (CPU, GPU,
memory
modules, and chipset main chip)? Quick connect attachments on the low
pressure water line might leak a bit when making or breaking, but not
enough
to be a problem, compared to a high pressure coolant line.

--
Phil Weldon, pweldonatmindjumpdotcom
For communication,
replace "at" with the 'at sign'
replace "mindjump" with "mindspring."
replace "dot" with "."


Still there might be enough heat movement,
perhaps aided by the large copper ground plane.

The high power chiller idea might be easier to
implement in my case, with my remoted water
cooling system. I have 1/2" PVC pipes running
to the next room, where I have my reservoir, pump,
heater core and fan. I used to use a mini-referigation
unit, reservoir and pump; without a fan and radiator.
(Adding a GPU and the rise in CPU heat output
eventualy overcame my mini-referigation unit)

I guess with a properly insulated reservoir, I could
have it all outside and just run the water lines into the
house. Maybe a NG or Propane motor driving the
pump, fans and compressor would lower the operating
cost. Maybe I could use an automobile airconditioner &
water pump.

Luck;
Ken

P.S. How's your goat, Phil? Hmm....makes me wonder
it I should ask if you are a Turtle.

"Ken Maltby" wrote in message m...
I want to try pressing the back of the Motherboard
into something with the expansion coil from an air
conditioner imbedded in it.

I'm thinking that I could branch the lines so that
I had a branch go to this MB pan/plate and another
branch, on quick connects, to CPU, GPU and
Chipset Blocks. I would have both lines on quick
connects where they enter the computer case

You'll need something so tough that it won't be
pierced by the wire leads soldered to the board,
and I can't think of any such substance. But a
1/4" thick piece of beryllium oxide could be used,
and it conducts heat about as well as aluminum does.
However it's very toxic and probably very expensive,
and the worst way you can cool a motherboard is from
the bottom because its fiberglass-epoxy material
insulates the chips too well. Just attach copper
plates to the chips with copper tubing soldered to
them and cool with water. Design the system to
give sufficient cooling even if the water flow stops
and, more importantly, so that it can't possibly leak
under any circumstances, even failure when the
temperature goes to maximum (that is, don't use
plastic hoses or solder that will melt). Remember,
water and high voltage can be a deadly combination.

You could circulate liquid nitrogen across the bottom of the motherboard and
there would not be a significant change in the temperatures of the CPU, GPU,
memory modules, or chipset when the system is under heavy load (as long as
the cold vapor was not allowed to circulate around the components on TOP of
the motherboard. The bottom of the motherboard would get VERY cold, but the
the temperature difference between the bottom and top would be VERY large.

--
Phil Weldon, pweldonatmindjumpdotcom
For communication,
replace "at" with the 'at sign'
replace "mindjump" with "mindspring."
replace "dot" with "."


"Ken Maltby" wrote in message
...

"Ken Maltby" wrote in message
...
Anybody know of such a substance? I want to
try pressing the back of the Motherboard into
something with the expansion coil from an air
conditioner imbedded in it. Maybe the conformal
coating would prevent shorting but I'm a little
leery of using an electrically conductive substance.

I'm thinking that I could branch the lines so that
I had a branch go to this MB pan/plate and another
branch, on quick connects, to CPU, GPU and
Chipset Blocks. I would have both lines on quick
connects where they enter the computer case. A
set of flexible lines would run from the wall to the
case. The rest of the airconditioner would be
outside (just like the central air).

Luck;
Ken


"Phil Weldon" wrote in message
ink.net...
The glass/epoxy resin material from which motherboards are made is a
very
good heat insulator. Conductive cooling will not be much of an
advantage
over plain old convective air cooling since little heat makes it through
the
motherboard. Also, because of the insulating effect, there will not be
much
effect on the components mounted on the top of the motherboard. Quick
disconnects in an air conditioning system aren't really a good idea...
there
will always be a loss of gaseous coolant (and lubricant) when the
connections are made and broken. How about using the air conditioner
(phase
change refrigeration) to chill water, then circulating the water through
cooling blocks on the components that produce lots of heat (CPU, GPU,
memory
modules, and chipset main chip)? Quick connect attachments on the low
pressure water line might leak a bit when making or breaking, but not
enough
to be a problem, compared to a high pressure coolant line.

--
Phil Weldon, pweldonatmindjumpdotcom
For communication,
replace "at" with the 'at sign'
replace "mindjump" with "mindspring."
replace "dot" with "."


Still there might be enough heat movement,
perhaps aided by the large copper ground plane.

The high power chiller idea might be easier to
implement in my case, with my remoted water
cooling system. I have 1/2" PVC pipes running
to the next room, where I have my reservoir, pump,
heater core and fan. I used to use a mini-referigation
unit, reservoir and pump; without a fan and radiator.
(Adding a GPU and the rise in CPU heat output
eventualy overcame my mini-referigation unit)

I guess with a properly insulated reservoir, I could
have it all outside and just run the water lines into the
house. Maybe a NG or Propane motor driving the
pump, fans and compressor would lower the operating
cost. Maybe I could use an automobile airconditioner &
water pump.

Luck;
Ken

P.S. How's your goat, Phil? Hmm....makes me wonder
it I should ask if you are a Turtle.

"do_not_spam_me" wrote in message
m...
"Ken Maltby" wrote in message
m...
I want to try pressing the back of the Motherboard
into something with the expansion coil from an air
conditioner imbedded in it.

I'm thinking that I could branch the lines so that
I had a branch go to this MB pan/plate and another
branch, on quick connects, to CPU, GPU and
Chipset Blocks. I would have both lines on quick
connects where they enter the computer case

You'll need something so tough that it won't be
pierced by the wire leads soldered to the board,
and I can't think of any such substance. But a
1/4" thick piece of beryllium oxide could be used,
and it conducts heat about as well as aluminum does.
However it's very toxic and probably very expensive,
and the worst way you can cool a motherboard is from
the bottom because its fiberglass-epoxy material
insulates the chips too well. Just attach copper
plates to the chips with copper tubing soldered to
them and cool with water. Design the system to
give sufficient cooling even if the water flow stops
and, more importantly, so that it can't possibly leak
under any circumstances, even failure when the
temperature goes to maximum (that is, don't use
plastic hoses or solder that will melt). Remember,
water and high voltage can be a deadly combination.


There must be something wrong with my original
post, what I am looking for is a putty or clay like
substance into which those protruding parts would
go. It would conform to the irregular surface of the
back of the motherboard. It would be applied in a
thick enough layer that nothing sticking out of the
motherboard would penetrate far enough to reach
the coils. It is my hope that the leads and solder
points would conduct a large portion of the heat
extracted by this experiment.

Luck;
Ken

As long as were talking about something completely useless, like cooling the
bottom of a motherboard, why not use diamond, some types of which have a
thermal conductance more than four times that of copper? Actually, some
types of printed circuit boards for high power microwave units (radar
transmitters) used to be made of epoxy with a beryllium oxide filler rather
than fiberglass. One wierd sience fact is that beryllium copper, a copper
alloy with about about 5% copper, used in electrically conductive springs...
has a thermal conductivity only one half that of aluminum!

--
Phil Weldon, pweldonatmindjumpdotcom
For communication,
replace "at" with the 'at sign'
replace "mindjump" with "mindspring."
replace "dot" with "."


"do_not_spam_me" wrote in message
m...
"Ken Maltby" wrote in message
m...
I want to try pressing the back of the Motherboard
into something with the expansion coil from an air
conditioner imbedded in it.

I'm thinking that I could branch the lines so that
I had a branch go to this MB pan/plate and another
branch, on quick connects, to CPU, GPU and
Chipset Blocks. I would have both lines on quick
connects where they enter the computer case

You'll need something so tough that it won't be
pierced by the wire leads soldered to the board,
and I can't think of any such substance. But a
1/4" thick piece of beryllium oxide could be used,
and it conducts heat about as well as aluminum does.
However it's very toxic and probably very expensive,
and the worst way you can cool a motherboard is from
the bottom because its fiberglass-epoxy material
insulates the chips too well. Just attach copper
plates to the chips with copper tubing soldered to
them and cool with water. Design the system to
give sufficient cooling even if the water flow stops
and, more importantly, so that it can't possibly leak
under any circumstances, even failure when the
temperature goes to maximum (that is, don't use
plastic hoses or solder that will melt). Remember,
water and high voltage can be a deadly combination.

"Ken Maltby" wrote in message m...

I want to try pressing the back of the Motherboard
into something with the expansion coil from an air
conditioner imbedded in it.

You'll need something so tough that it won't be
pierced by the wire leads soldered to the board,
and I can't think of any such substance. But a
1/4" thick piece of beryllium oxide could be used,
and it conducts heat about as well as aluminum does.
However it's very toxic and probably very expensive,

There must be something wrong with my original
post, what I am looking for is a putty or clay like
substance into which those protruding parts would
go. It would conform to the irregular surface of the
back of the motherboard. It would be applied in a
thick enough layer that nothing sticking out of the
motherboard would penetrate far enough to reach
the coils. It is my hope that the leads and solder
points would conduct a large portion of the heat
extracted by this experiment.

I guess with a properly insulated reservoir, I could
have it all outside and just run the water lines into the
house. Maybe a NG or Propane motor driving the pump, fans
and compressor would lower the operating cost. Maybe I
could use an automobile airconditioner & water pump.

No offense, but you need to think this out much more clearly. Any
dielectric substance thick enough to cover tho wire leads and solder
bumps will act as
insulation, unless it's beryllium oxide, and it's unreasonable to rely
upon the solder bumps and wire leads to conduct any appreciable amount
of heat because their surface area is just far too small. If your
outdoor temperature is above freezing, the last thing you want a
reservior to be is insulated against heat loss because then you lose
free cooling (but if it's too hot outside, there's no sense in
locating it there). And using a gas motor to drive everything won't
reduce operating costs but will increase noise, something that water
cooling is meant to reduce. Frankly, I don't think you could do any
worse if you intentionally tried to create a Rube Goldberg
contraption.

"do_not_spam_me" wrote in message
om...
"Ken Maltby" wrote in message
m...

I want to try pressing the back of the Motherboard
into something with the expansion coil from an air
conditioner imbedded in it.

You'll need something so tough that it won't be
pierced by the wire leads soldered to the board,
and I can't think of any such substance. But a
1/4" thick piece of beryllium oxide could be used,
and it conducts heat about as well as aluminum does.
However it's very toxic and probably very expensive,

There must be something wrong with my original
post, what I am looking for is a putty or clay like
substance into which those protruding parts would
go. It would conform to the irregular surface of the
back of the motherboard. It would be applied in a
thick enough layer that nothing sticking out of the
motherboard would penetrate far enough to reach
the coils. It is my hope that the leads and solder
points would conduct a large portion of the heat
extracted by this experiment.

I guess with a properly insulated reservoir, I could
have it all outside and just run the water lines into the
house. Maybe a NG or Propane motor driving the pump, fans
and compressor would lower the operating cost. Maybe I
could use an automobile airconditioner & water pump.

No offense, but you need to think this out much more clearly. Any
dielectric substance thick enough to cover tho wire leads and solder
bumps will act as
insulation, unless it's beryllium oxide,

Ok, unless you are saying that there is a beryllium oxide
based putty or clay that is a dielectric; you know of no material
that matches what I am looking for. The apparent fact that you
know of no such a material, won't preclude my continued search
for some.

and it's unreasonable to rely
upon the solder bumps and wire leads to conduct any appreciable amount
of heat because their surface area is just far too small.

Oh, but there are so many of them, and they are so very
conductive. Many of them connect to a large unetched portion
of each layer that is a common ground reference.

Also I'm not saying it well work, just that I want to try and see
if it provides any benefit. ( Who knows I may even surprise Phil.)

If your
outdoor temperature is above freezing, the last thing you want a
reservior to be is insulated against heat loss because then you lose
free cooling

I'm in South Central Texas, San Antonio, freezing not a
frequent problem.

(but if it's too hot outside, there's no sense in
locating it there).

I would rather deal with long water lines than long
refrigeration lines. Having it outside places any noise
the airconditioner makes, well ... outside.

And using a gas motor to drive everything won't
reduce operating costs but will increase noise, something that water
cooling is meant to reduce.

Actually the local Power Company loves the idea of using
NG powered compressors and fans for central air, as it helps
balance their load; in fact they encourage it with financial
incentives. Not sure this would qualify or what the NG vs
Electrical costs might be, a lot well depend on how much
efficiency can be had with exact sizing of the components.
I have stood next to running NG backup generators the were
practically silent.

Frankly, I don't think you could do any
worse if you intentionally tried to create a Rube Goldberg
contraption.

It's good to hear from someone else who can understand
that reference. You are aware that his all worked?

Luck;
Ken