Detonator 51, 5900, and image quality

"TheHasselhoff" wrote in message
...
Rubbish. The game runs fine with my Radeon 9800 Pro without any special
tweaks.

Oh - so, just because these games worked for YOUR system, means that they
must work on mine, as well? That, my friend, is what is rubbish.

I don't know you're doing wrong, but Tron 2.0 is working fine here with a
Radeon 9800 Pro and the Catalyst 3.7 drivers.

1. Nvidiots who claim Radeon cards have all kinds of issues with games.

They do. Of course, Nvidia had the same kinds of issues when 3dfx was on
top - which is why I didn't buy an Nvidia card until after 3dfx support in
new games was, on the whole, dropped. I don't care about blazing fps, I
want a stable computer that runs everything I'm playing, without having to
search the net for tweaks & patches.

The point is that the ATI driver and compatbility issues is a myth. This may
have been true one or two years ago, but from my experience things have
evened out. ATI's drivers are becoming better and more compatible while
every Nvidia driver since the 30.82 have introduced new bugs.

2. Nvidias "driver optimizations" which inflate banchmark scores at the
expense of image quality.

Which ATI is, of course, also guilty of - writing drivers that are
optimized
for single applications, simply to make the cards look better to
customers.

Examples lease?
---
Anders

Dont for get Nightfire as well until the patch. It ran fine on my nvidia
based systems. But was unplayable with the 9K Pro

"TheHasselhoff" wrote in message
...
Can you name those games that don't work with a Radeon 9x00?

BF1942 needed a patch from EA before the ground textures wouldn't
intermittently flash on/off. (I think it was the 1.31 patch that did it.)
UT2K3 would lock up, in the menus of all places, unless I used the Omega
drivers (which doesn't make sense, but it worked).
TRON 2.0 played like crap (1-2 fps) until I found a tweak someone posted
on
the official Tron forums.

It goes on & on.

Anders Albrechtsen wrote:
If you don't see the point, I don't think you ever will.

There isn't any point. The games are working fine.

I guess the Hasselhoff is saying that the card is a crap because it
doesn't work well it you take it out of its box without installing patches.
Hey, isn't that the same with the Operating System ? Or the game itself,
which usually requires some patches that fix bugs ?

Indeed, no point.

--
XandreX
/I'm that kind of people your parents warned you about/

I guess the Hasselhoff is saying that the card is a crap because it
doesn't work well it you take it out of its box without installing
patches.
Hey, isn't that the same with the Operating System ? Or the game itself,
which usually requires some patches that fix bugs ?

If I spend $400 on a video card - yes, I expect it to actually work
correctly, without having to wait for updated drivers, or patches, or search
for tweaks. Same thing with the O/S, which is why I never bought Win95,
Win98 FE, or Win2000. Otherwise, its a crappy overall product - sure, that
video card is really fast, but if I have to work for hours to get it working
right, in games that came out a year ago... it's just not worth it to me.

I don't know you're doing wrong, but Tron 2.0 is working fine here with a
Radeon 9800 Pro and the Catalyst 3.7 drivers.

ON YOUR COMPUTER. Guess what? I probably have a different mainboard,
different sound card, etc.



The point is that the ATI driver and compatbility issues is a myth. This
may
have been true one or two years ago, but from my experience things have
evened out. ATI's drivers are becoming better and more compatible while
every Nvidia driver since the 30.82 have introduced new bugs.

That doesn't explain why, with an Nvidia card in this system the games run
fine, and with an Ati card the games need extra work to get them going.

BTW - isn't it a bit hypocritical to bash Ati, then turn around and use a
term like "Nvidiot"?



Examples lease?

Um... 3dMark03? (I guess you missed that whole news article.)

"TheHasselhoff" wrote in message
...

I guess the Hasselhoff is saying that the card is a crap because it
doesn't work well it you take it out of its box without installing
patches.
Hey, isn't that the same with the Operating System ? Or the game itself,
which usually requires some patches that fix bugs ?

If I spend $400 on a video card - yes, I expect it to actually work
correctly, without having to wait for updated drivers, or patches, or
search
for tweaks. Same thing with the O/S, which is why I never bought Win95,
Win98 FE, or Win2000. Otherwise, its a crappy overall product - sure,
that
video card is really fast, but if I have to work for hours to get it
working
right, in games that came out a year ago... it's just not worth it to me.

That is just about the most retarded crap I've read in a very long time!
Given the complexity of contemporary PC components and the development in 3D
graphics the last 2-3 years you cannot expect a new product to work
perfectly with all past, current and future games. In other words it isn't
possible for a hardware (or software) developer to test their products for
100% compatability with current and past software/hardware let alone future
hardware/software. That is why patches are released for just about every new
PC game that comes out. Another factor is devopment and adoption of new
features and standards. At some point this will reduce or eliminate
backwards compatability, but that is unavoidable. Think about it, it doesn't
make very much sense to complain that your old records are not compatible
with your brand new DVD player, does it? Development comes ta the expense of
backwards compatability, and that is why I always encourage people to use
old hardware to play old games and stop complaining that their brand
newvideocard doesn't always work with old games. If you find this annoying I
suggest you buy a console.
---
Anders

"TheHasselhoff" wrote in message
...
I don't know you're doing wrong, but Tron 2.0 is working fine here with
a
Radeon 9800 Pro and the Catalyst 3.7 drivers.

ON YOUR COMPUTER. Guess what? I probably have a different mainboard,
different sound card, etc.

Let me give you a hint: maybe your problems aren't caused by the videocard
alone.

The point is that the ATI driver and compatbility issues is a myth. This
may
have been true one or two years ago, but from my experience things have
evened out. ATI's drivers are becoming better and more compatible while
every Nvidia driver since the 30.82 have introduced new bugs.

That doesn't explain why, with an Nvidia card in this system the games run
fine, and with an Ati card the games need extra work to get them going.

There're several possible explanations:

1. Developer support. Most game developers still use Nvidia cards as
reference boards. Notice the big fat Nvidia logo on the Tron 2.0 boot
screen?
2. Conservative hardware. Nvidia has spent the last year consolidating
DirectX 8 performance. ATI on the other hand has concentrated on DirectX 9
with their new cards whihc may compromise some level of compatability with
current and past games.

BTW - isn't it a bit hypocritical to bash Ati, then turn around and use a
term like "Nvidiot"?

Who bashed ATI?

Examples lease?

Um... 3dMark03? (I guess you missed that whole news article.)

That was an unoteworthy incident compared to the stunts Nvidia has performed
lately. The only major issue with "optimizations" I can think is three years
back when ATI cheated to improve Quake3 performance. But unlike Nvidia they
seem to have learned from past mistakes.
---
Anders

Let me give you a hint: maybe your problems aren't caused by the videocard
alone.

Really - so, its the exact same computer, except I try two different video
cards in it (with fresh installs of Windows for each) - but its still not
the ATI card's fault. Even when a driver tweak or update, for the video
card, fixes the problem. Whatever, this is getting nowhere, you are an
Nvidia basher and there's no getting through to you.



1. Developer support. Most game developers still use Nvidia cards as
reference boards. Notice the big fat Nvidia logo on the Tron 2.0 boot
screen?

So, in other words, the Nvidia cards will be more compatible with the games
currently being produced. You just proved my point.


2. Conservative hardware. Nvidia has spent the last year consolidating
DirectX 8 performance. ATI on the other hand has concentrated on DirectX 9
with their new cards whihc may compromise some level of compatability with
current and past games.

That's really nice - but since there still isn't a single game out on the
market that fully utilizes DX9 (and only one game even on the horizon) - ATI
has left alot of people behind.



Examples lease?

Um... 3dMark03? (I guess you missed that whole news article.)

That was an unoteworthy incident compared to the stunts Nvidia has
performed
lately.

Okay - so, besides the HL2 incident, and 3dMark03, what are the "noteworthy"
incidents that Nvidia has been a part of?


The only major issue with "optimizations" I can think is three years
back when ATI cheated to improve Quake3 performance. But unlike Nvidia
they
seem to have learned from past mistakes.

Well, considering that they STILL use Q3 as a big benchmark against Nvidia,
I'd say they haven't.

I don't know you're doing wrong, but Tron 2.0 is working fine here with
a
Radeon 9800 Pro and the Catalyst 3.7 drivers.

ON YOUR COMPUTER. Guess what? I probably have a different mainboard,
different sound card, etc.

So that makes it *ATI'S* fault, huh? Brilliant logic, such a stunning
example of deduction you give us... Mobo different + sound card different =
video card at fault.

Mr. Spock you're not, apparantly...

"TheHasselhoff" wrote in message
. ..
Let me give you a hint: maybe your problems aren't caused by the
videocard
alone.

Really - so, its the exact same computer, except I try two different video
cards in it (with fresh installs of Windows for each) - but its still not
the ATI card's fault. Even when a driver tweak or update, for the video
card, fixes the problem. Whatever, this is getting nowhere, you are an
Nvidia basher and there's no getting through to you.

1. Your understanding of how a PC works is naive to say the least. A
videocard could just as well be the victim of another component in your
system. The fact that Tron 2.0 works fine on my system, and on may others',
indicate that the problem lurks elsewhere.

2. I'm not an "Nvidia basher". I just use a direct way top describe what's
going on.

1. Developer support. Most game developers still use Nvidia cards as
reference boards. Notice the big fat Nvidia logo on the Tron 2.0 boot
screen?

So, in other words, the Nvidia cards will be more compatible with the
games
currently being produced. You just proved my point.

No, I didn't prove your point. You claimed the Radeon wouldn't run Tron 2.0
out the box. I proved this point wrong since the game runs fine on my 9800
Pro machine with no special tweaks.

2. Conservative hardware. Nvidia has spent the last year consolidating
DirectX 8 performance. ATI on the other hand has concentrated on DirectX
9
with their new cards whihc may compromise some level of compatability
with
current and past games.

That's really nice - but since there still isn't a single game out on the
market that fully utilizes DX9 (and only one game even on the horizon) -
ATI
has left alot of people behind.

1. Tomb Raider Angel of Darkness uses DX9 PS 2.0 and runs 2-8 times faster
on ATI 9800 Pro hadware compared to a GFX 5900U. I guess that's why Nvidia
bribed Eidos to pull the latest patch which included a benchmark tool. Halo
uses PS 2.0 and Halflife 2 which will be released sometime this fall utilize
PS 2.0 and benchmarks indicate that ATI hardware handel these game much
better.

2. ATI didn't "leave a lot of people behind". Current and older games still
run fine.

Examples lease?

Um... 3dMark03? (I guess you missed that whole news article.)

That was an unoteworthy incident compared to the stunts Nvidia has
performed
lately.

Okay - so, besides the HL2 incident, and 3dMark03, what are the
"noteworthy"
incidents that Nvidia has been a part of?

Their recent drivers. They were caught cheating in several DX9 benchmarks
including Aquamark and Tomb Raider AoD.

The only major issue with "optimizations" I can think is three years
back when ATI cheated to improve Quake3 performance. But unlike Nvidia
they
seem to have learned from past mistakes.

Well, considering that they STILL use Q3 as a big benchmark against
Nvidia,
I'd say they haven't.

They removed the optimizations which BTW only concerned the Radeon 8500 and
previous cards.
---
Anders