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Does more memory require a more powerful fan?



 
 
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  #51  
Old January 29th 17, 09:44 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default Does more memory require a more powerful fan?

Johnny B Good wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 08:59:29 -0500, micky wrote:

====snip====

I'll bet most of those are bought by people as gifts for others. I
only bought it because it was marked down 80% or so. And I like
gadgets.

But what I do will depend on how dirty it is and where the dirt is.
And whether I can blow it off with mouth, and whether the aerosol duster
has come in the mail yet.


I've been vacuuming out PC cases for nigh on two decades without the
slightest hint of ESD induced damage. During that time, I've seen the
risk of ESD from using vacuum cleaners to clean out electronic devices
(notably PCs) mentioned almost every time this question of cleaning the
accumulating dust out of such kit is raised.


Well, find a report of someone who wasn't so lucky.

There are reports of people killing equipment, using
their "favorite cleaning technique". Including using
an air compressor in the back yard.

The philosophy at work was "best practice". If one
of our big customers came into the building, what
would they think if we were waiving the Hoover around ?
Say, for example, a $100,000 module with semiconductor
lasers came back for repair. ESD damage to products can
be subtle, the product can fail months after an "insult",
and then everyone will wonder "how did that happen ?".
"Is the product actually unreliable?" "Or are their
repair people a bunch of clowns?" Customers would have
service contracts, to have hardware like that maintained.

So what happens is, even potential handling risks are
added to procedures. That's why the floor was antistatic,
the chairs antistatic, all the benches had antistatic
mats, and the lab with a large large number of those
modules, had a "shoe policy". All to eliminate bad
handling as a cause of damage.

If equipment needed cleaning, it would probably
go through some kind of washer, like the washer at
the plant for new boards. The rubber caps to prevent
wash water entry, would have to be fitted on all the
appropriate items. The lasers being an example.

*******

https://www.quora.com/Static-1/Stati...eaner-ESD-safe

"Static: What makes a vacuum cleaner ESD safe?

The plastic parts are made of a material which prevents the
build up & discharge of a static charge.

Normal plastic tubes make wonderful capacitors - and the
dry air / materials that skim along them with the flow will
cause a charge to accumulate. Even just moving the tubes
around and making contact with other things will do this.

It is called the triboelectric effect or triboelectric charging.

This is easily illustrated with by rubbing a silk scarf &
PVC tube or silk scarf & balloon or balloon & the hair on your head.

In ESD safe vacuums, they use materials which inhibit this effect.
The materials are not standard PVC / PET and hence cost more."

That's part of it. A $500 ESD vacuum has dissipative tubing and
a conduction path to safety ground. With the conduction set
to the usual value (1 megohm to 10 megohms).

There is still the possibility of static buildup
on the tops of plastic integrated circuits, but I
don't know how conductive the plastic is. If a
circuit happens to have 10^9 ohm input impedance,
and you actually want to use that parameter to advantage,
the package cannot conduct too well. In some cases, circuits
were put in a metal can... with a glass seal all around
the bottom, to help maintain a desired input impedance.

So rather than take a chance, you can use a damp cloth,
or manually blow out stuff with a lung-full of your damp
breath. But a high pressure source, like a compressor with
high velocity air, we don't know how much buildup that's
going to cause.

*******

You can even generate static electricity, using water!

I did this one as a kid. It would create a static discharge
around once every two seconds. And while a book I was reading
suggested scaling this up using metal garbage cans to hold
the charge, even back then I knew better than to create
a monster :-) I would use a portable AM radio, to hear
the discharge on the AM band. The discharge point is
normally set up, to occur where the two wires cross.
You leave a gap between them, and adjust the gap so
that the dielectric underneath the cans doesn't become
the discharge path. Mine used blocks of paraffin wax.

http://www.hk-phy.org/iq/kelvin_gene...nerator_e.html

So in mine, there were three cans. There was a can on the
top of the stand, holding the water reservoir to run the
thing. And the two cans at the bottom, collect the water.
A limiting effect on those generators, is the droplets
of water start to "deflect" to one side, as they drop through
the generator rings. And that limits how high a potential
you can operate it at. You set the spark gap between
the criss-cross, such that the output is discharged, before
the potential becomes so high that the water droplets
miss their can entirely, and wet the floor :-)

Paul
  #52  
Old January 29th 17, 05:39 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default Does more memory require a more powerful fan?

micky wrote:
In alt.comp.hardware, on Sun, 29 Jan 2017 16:48:44 +1100, Gordon Levi
wrote:

"Mayayana" wrote:

"Paul" wrote

| Duster gases are such as 1,1-difluoroethane, 1,1,1-trifluoroethane,
| or 1,1,1,2-tetrafluoroethane. Hydrocarbons, like butane, were
| often used in the past, but their flammable nature forced
| manufacturers to use fluorocarbons.
|
| When inhaled, gas duster fumes may produce psychoactive effects
| and may be harmful to health."
|

Interesting point. Compressed air has always seemed
like hype to me. There's no problem vacuuming as long
as one doesn't touch the components. I've done it many
times with no problems.

Compressed air is _much_ more effective. I was able to borrow a small
unit used to drive nail guns etc. It blew out a spectacular amount of
dust. Much more than I could vacuum. Here's the type of unit
http://tinyurl.com/hp28z98.


You know, I have something like that too. At an auto junkyard near
here they also take in other junk, and one time I bought the pump, 2 gas
weedwackers and something else I can't recall. I coudlnt' make one good
weedwacker from two bad ones, but I think I fixed the 3rd thing and the
pump worked, once I bought a hose etc. I have an attachment with a
trigger that's meant to blow.

I keep this think in the kitchen because Idon't know where else but
ccan't I turn it on t here and check for static. I know you don't worry
but I'm a newbie and people tell me to be careful.


If you use the weedwacker on the PC, we're going to need pictures :-)

Paul
  #53  
Old January 29th 17, 05:45 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.hardware
Ken Blake[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 27
Default Does more memory require a more powerful fan?

On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 03:17:06 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.comp.hardware, on Sat, 28 Jan 2017 10:34:54 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:


It was many years ago, but I was once working inside a plugged-in and
turned-on radio (I don't remember why) when I accidentally touched
something I should have.=20



Sorry, typo. That should be "shouldn't have," of course.



I figured. Though I know people who need shocks periodicaly to revive
them. I think most were zombies when they were young.




I wonder whether I would survive such a shock if I got one now. Do
people get more vulnerable to electric shocks as they get older (I'm
79)? I don't know.
  #54  
Old January 29th 17, 08:43 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_28_]
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Posts: 1,467
Default Does more memory require a more powerful fan?

Ken Blake wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 03:17:06 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.comp.hardware, on Sat, 28 Jan 2017 10:34:54 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

It was many years ago, but I was once working inside a plugged-in and
turned-on radio (I don't remember why) when I accidentally touched
something I should have.=20

Sorry, typo. That should be "shouldn't have," of course.


I figured. Though I know people who need shocks periodicaly to revive
them. I think most were zombies when they were young.




I wonder whether I would survive such a shock if I got one now. Do
people get more vulnerable to electric shocks as they get older (I'm
79)? I don't know.


Do you have damp palms or dry palms ? Humans vary
a bit in this regard, and sometimes it makes a difference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_shock

If you're working on something where you know the
odds are good of getting a shock, it helps to hold
one hand behind your back. So the current doesn't
flow through your chest cavity.

Paul
  #55  
Old January 29th 17, 09:37 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.hardware
Ken Blake[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 27
Default Does more memory require a more powerful fan?

On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 14:43:56 -0500, Paul
wrote:

Ken Blake wrote:


I wonder whether I would survive such a shock if I got one now. Do
people get more vulnerable to electric shocks as they get older (I'm
79)? I don't know.


Do you have damp palms or dry palms ? Humans vary
a bit in this regard, and sometimes it makes a difference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_shock



Yes, that sounds vaguely familiar. I think I once read something about
that.

But I was wondering whether age made a difference.


If you're working on something where you know the
odds are good of getting a shock, it helps to hold
one hand behind your back. So the current doesn't
flow through your chest cavity.



Interesting, thanks. I certainly didn't know that.

But these days, I try to avoid working on something where I know the
odds are good of getting a shock. In fact, at my age, I now do very
little physical working at anything.
  #56  
Old January 29th 17, 11:34 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.hardware
micky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 439
Default Does more memory require a more powerful fan?

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 29 Jan 2017 11:39:38 -0500, Paul
wrote:

micky wrote:
In alt.comp.hardware, on Sun, 29 Jan 2017 16:48:44 +1100, Gordon Levi
wrote:

"Mayayana" wrote:

"Paul" wrote

| Duster gases are such as 1,1-difluoroethane, 1,1,1-trifluoroethane,
| or 1,1,1,2-tetrafluoroethane. Hydrocarbons, like butane, were
| often used in the past, but their flammable nature forced
| manufacturers to use fluorocarbons.
|
| When inhaled, gas duster fumes may produce psychoactive effects
| and may be harmful to health."
|

Interesting point. Compressed air has always seemed
like hype to me. There's no problem vacuuming as long
as one doesn't touch the components. I've done it many
times with no problems.
Compressed air is _much_ more effective. I was able to borrow a small
unit used to drive nail guns etc. It blew out a spectacular amount of
dust. Much more than I could vacuum. Here's the type of unit
http://tinyurl.com/hp28z98.


You know, I have something like that too. At an auto junkyard near
here they also take in other junk, and one time I bought the pump, 2 gas
weedwackers and something else I can't recall. I coudlnt' make one good
weedwacker from two bad ones, but I think I fixed the 3rd thing and the
pump worked, once I bought a hose etc. I have an attachment with a
trigger that's meant to blow.

I keep this think in the kitchen because Idon't know where else but
ccan't I turn it on t here and check for static. I know you don't worry
but I'm a newbie and people tell me to be careful.


If you use the weedwacker on the PC, we're going to need pictures :-)


ROTFLOL

Paul


  #57  
Old January 29th 17, 11:40 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.hardware
micky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 439
Default Does more memory require a more powerful fan?

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 29 Jan 2017 09:45:10 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 03:17:06 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.comp.hardware, on Sat, 28 Jan 2017 10:34:54 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:


It was many years ago, but I was once working inside a plugged-in and
turned-on radio (I don't remember why) when I accidentally touched
something I should have.=20


Sorry, typo. That should be "shouldn't have," of course.



I figured. Though I know people who need shocks periodicaly to revive
them. I think most were zombies when they were young.




I wonder whether I would survive such a shock if I got one now. Do
people get more vulnerable to electric shocks as they get older (I'm
79)? I don't know.


I don't know either. I'm 70 and I don't feel like I've changed**. And
my electrocardiogram is normal, although I don't know what that
measures. It uses, iiuc, electrical activity, but I don't understand
why having a previous heart attack etc. would change that.

But I haven't gotten a shock in years. Partly because I spend so much
time fiddling with and software and hardware of computers, instead of
the electric and mechanical things I really like better. My collection
of glues is drying out.

Paul's right on his points of course.

**I'm fatter now, but my hypothesis is that fat absorbs electricity and
actually would protect me.
 




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