Simplest and most reliable printer for an iMac?

In article ,
Jolly Roger wrote:

It is definitely not the case in my real-world experience. It's as if
you think it's physically impossible for Epson printers to clog under
normal use. The truth is it happens.

i never said it was physically impossible. don't try to twist things.

normally, they don't clog. sometimes they do, and it typically happens
when people do things like forget to turn off the printer, use it in
very humid weather, use cheap ink, etc.

You just can't stop harping on the clog problem. Fine - I'll come out
and say it: A printer that dries up if you don't pint to it once a week
is a CRAPPY PRINTER.

no, that would simply be a printer that's not designed for occasional
use.

furthermore, the heads park when off, so this is only really an issue
if you *leave it on* for a week or turn it off from a power strip,
which won't properly park the heads.

Whatever. I know for a fact that I used my Epson properly, with Epson
brand inks, and Epson brand paper. Within the first year, it was already
exhibiting banding due to clogs. The printer was a piece of **** to me.

a sample size of one? are you serious?

I'm sure you would love to believe that my Epson clogged up permanently
because I used it incorrectly. Saying it over and over isn't going to
magically change reality, though.

maybe it was defective. one clogged printer does not mean the entire
product line is junk.

In article ,
nospam wrote:

In article ,
Jolly Roger wrote:

It is definitely not the case in my real-world experience. It's as if
you think it's physically impossible for Epson printers to clog under
normal use. The truth is it happens.

i never said it was physically impossible. don't try to twist things.

normally, they don't clog. sometimes they do, and it typically happens
when people do things like forget to turn off the printer, use it in
very humid weather, use cheap ink, etc.

And it very well can happen even when people don't do things like that,
and follow all the best practices.

You just can't stop harping on the clog problem. Fine - I'll come out
and say it: A printer that dries up if you don't pint to it once a week
is a CRAPPY PRINTER.

no, that would simply be a printer that's not designed for occasional
use.

No, IMO, it's a crappy printer. From what i can tell, most people who
buy the cheap Epson inkjet printers are very likely occasional users.

furthermore, the heads park when off, so this is only really an issue
if you *leave it on* for a week or turn it off from a power strip,
which won't properly park the heads.

A good printer would detect that it has not been used and automatically
shut itself down etc. My Canon does just this.

Whatever. I know for a fact that I used my Epson properly, with Epson
brand inks, and Epson brand paper. Within the first year, it was already
exhibiting banding due to clogs. The printer was a piece of **** to me.

a sample size of one? are you serious?

Google shows 202,000 hits for the search term "epson clogged nozzles".
So realistically, we're talking about a sample size of a much greater
number. ; )

I'm sure you would love to believe that my Epson clogged up permanently
because I used it incorrectly. Saying it over and over isn't going to
magically change reality, though.

maybe it was defective. one clogged printer does not mean the entire
product line is junk.

I never said the entire product line is junk. "Don't try to twist
things." Seriously, is this not getting old by now? ; )

--
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JR

In article ,
Jolly Roger wrote:

furthermore, the heads park when off, so this is only really an issue
if you *leave it on* for a week or turn it off from a power strip,
which won't properly park the heads.

A good printer would detect that it has not been used and automatically
shut itself down etc. My Canon does just this.

that would be nice, however, it's also not really a big deal to turn
something off when not in use. i assume you do that with the lights in
your house, your tv set, your stove, vacuum cleaner, etc. are those
also crappy because there's no auto-shutoff?

Whatever. I know for a fact that I used my Epson properly, with Epson
brand inks, and Epson brand paper. Within the first year, it was already
exhibiting banding due to clogs. The printer was a piece of **** to me.

a sample size of one? are you serious?

Google shows 202,000 hits for the search term "epson clogged nozzles".
So realistically, we're talking about a sample size of a much greater
number. ; )

that doesn't prove anything. nevertheless, google shows 233,000 hits
for canon clogged nozzles and 337,000 for hp clogged nozzles, so by
your metric, epsons clog the least.

nospam wrote:
In article ,


Snipped bits out

normally, they don't clog. sometimes they do, and it typically happens
when people do things like forget to turn off the printer, use it in
very humid weather, use cheap ink, etc.


Now the above used to be Gospel, but I do believe it's recommended to
leave the printer powered, as newer Epson printers do park the heads
when not printing. Leaving it powered will prevent ink waste which
happens on every power up, as it pushes ink out all orifices, so to
speak, doing a type of cleaning cycle.

--
john mcwilliams

"nospam" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jolly Roger wrote:




normally, they don't clog. sometimes they do, and it typically happens
when people do things like forget to turn off the printer, use it in
very humid weather, use cheap ink, etc.


In reference to an Epson clogging in humid weather I have found it to be
completely opposite. Moisture will help to keep the heads from drying out.
As a matter of practice when the teachers at my school packed up more than
60 Epson printers for the summer in plastic bags to store them for ten weeks
I would always recommend they place a dampened sponge in the bag (not in the
printer) to help keep humidity levels high. On return in September the
printers would all work, and I used this routine for ten years, 'til I
retired in '08.

--
Jan Alter

But getting back to the Epson Stylus 740 - I was a bit sad when it broke
down. It was one hell of a workhorse! So reliable I could hardly believe
it. I wish I could say the same for the rest of my hardware.

Anyone here had one last longer than I did (nine years)?

Regards,
Jamie Kahn Genet
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.


The school I worked at in Philadelphia still has about twenty 740 Epsons
running since 1999, when I first ordered thirty-five of them . These
machines were real workhorses. The biggest problem maintaining them was
after 3 or 4 years I needed to grease the head travel bar with a little
3-'n-1 oil every 6 months. Over the ten year period I used only 3rd party
inks for all the printers with excellent results. Clogging would occur if
the printer was left on for a week or more without printing or a couple of
weeks off without printing. I discovered Epsons work best when they were
used.
Around 2002 I started ordering the Epson 880. It turned out to be a much
finer printer than the 740. It printed faster, quieter, at a higher dpi and
didn't need oiling of the head travel bar after three or more years use.
What was even more wonderful was that both the 740 and 880 used cheap third
party cartridges that ran the school about $8 a set for black and color.The
Epson 740 and the 880 were the best all-around printers Epson ever made for
durability and longevity from my experience. Additionally we used the C80,
C82, C84, and C88 models. By the time I'd retired we had some 80 printers
running in the school.
Today Epson certainly makes much better photo producing printers for
the general consumer, but hardware-wise they've turned them into disposable
units and now Epson makes its profit on ink,(as do the other printer
companies) doing everything it can to thwart the user from refilling
cartridges by using chips on them as well as the consumer using third party
cartridges by changing the firmware on the same model printer along its
course of production so the printer won't recognize cartridges with older
chips.
Epson has become extremely environmentally unfriendly in its throw away
mentality for both the printers that are poorly made in comparison to their
ten year old models and the enormous amount of cartridges that all join the
landfills.
From my perspective the only thing that will turn things around is
consumer revolution to enjoin legislation, making it easier for the user to
refill cartidges and end this costly waste of materials, money, and greed on
both Epson's and the other printer makers.
--
Jan Alter

Jan Alter schrieb:
From my perspective the only thing that will turn things around is
consumer revolution to enjoin legislation, making it easier for the user to
refill cartidges and end this costly waste of materials, money, and greed on
both Epson's and the other printer makers.

But what choice do consumers have today? Except letters to DC or legal
action. Where is EFF? ;-)


H.

David wrote:
In article ,
(John Brock) wrote:

My siblings and I bought our 80-some year old mother a new iMac
for Christmas, and her Epson Stylus Color 740 -- unsupported by
Snow Leopard -- is now junk. So we'd like to hear recommendations
for a new printer.

We're not interested in speed or ultra-high quality photos or
multi-function; we're looking for robustness and simplicity above
all. We'd like our mother to be able to change the ink cartridges
by herself! Beyond that, we're looking for a major brand with good
OS X support, and not overly expensive (especially the ink). Under
$200 certainly, and under $100 would be nice. Given these criteria,
what would be the best choice?

Any of the HP or Canons in basic form should do the trick - certainly
avoid Epson (even though they do print nicely) as she will be forever
cleaning heads.

With HP (I have had 4 of them over the past 15 years) they just sit
there until you want to print, then they print. No trouble no fuss.

Re cost of ink - generally the cheaper printers tend to be harder on ink
than the more expensive units, but that is not such a problem unless you
(or her) are going to do a lot of printing.

One big advantage of the HP and Canon is that cartridges are available
at most department stores and at post offices.

Cheers

David

Most intensive discussion this one little post spawned. Fascinating on
how it developed, too. The debate is about why some folks experience
clogging with Epsons and others don't. The defenders start by saying
they don't clog with "proper" use, but when others dispute that claim
that defense somehow changed to "normal" use.

Guess what, people? "Normal" use probably isn't what Epson considers
"proper!"

TJ

"heiko recktenwald" wrote in message
...
Jan Alter schrieb:
From my perspective the only thing that will turn things around is
consumer revolution to enjoin legislation, making it easier for the user
to
refill cartidges and end this costly waste of materials, money, and greed
on
both Epson's and the other printer makers.

But what choice do consumers have today? Except letters to DC or legal
action. Where is EFF? ;-)



Clearly the mass of consumers are not riled up enough to do much. Once
and awhile I'll hear of Staples offering to give incentives for returning
empty inkjet cartridges to them for recycling. Barely a handful of people
are writing to their legislatures from what I see and hear on the news. I
haven't read anything in Consumer Reports about the interest, except vaguely
to refill cartridges, and then that continues with more ignorance from CR,
saying that using OEM is probably the better choice since filled cartridges
may not last as long, the ink may not be as 'high quality'. The same goes
from them for using third party cartridges.
Despite the fact that the masses are using millions of these printers
there is no momentum at this point to bring the issue to equal getting rid
of plastic bags, or driving smaller cars, or wearing a sweater in the house
on a cold day to cut out the waste.

--
Jan Alter

On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 21:10:12 -0600, Jolly Roger
wrote:

No, IMO, it's a crappy printer. From what i can tell, most people who
buy the cheap Epson inkjet printers are very likely occasional users.

I have an expensive Epson, it was over $300 when I bought it several
years ago - primarily because it has a built in Ethernet connection.
Printing generally takes a long time as it clears out the ink heads. I
use Epson ink, but if I don't use the printer for a month or two
(while leaving my printer on, as is my practice), it won't unclog.


--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison