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#11
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Can't use higher resolution with Topcon 10" monitor
The key just might be the 800x600 interlace vs non interlace setting on the
video card. The last time I got into this sort of thing, the video card settings (Whatever the ATI video card was at the time) did not include a setting for interlace/non interlace until it was set to TV compatable resolutions. "Phil Weldon" wrote in message nk.net... But what did you SEE at the shop? The signal may have been 800 X 600, but the detail was considerably less. What do you expect to use this monitor for? That information might help me give a clearer explanation. The display card used doesn't make a difference as long as the refresh rate can be set low enough, and interlace can be selected. What you bought is a very limited monitor completely unsuited for text display at 800 X 600. It might be suitable for NTSC or PAL resolution, but 800 X 600 ditigal images will be considerabally degraded. Phil Weldon "emil_lam" wrote in message oups.com... | The staff did show me the monitor's image at 800x600 resolution. I've | checked that by right click at desktop then select properties (Display | properties tab). At Settings tab, it showed 800x600 at 32 bit color. | That staff already told me the maximum resolution is 800x600 and I | expect that. | | But I haven't checked the display card used by that shop. | |
#12
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Can't use higher resolution with Topcon 10" monitor
Phil Weldon 寫道: But what did you SEE at the shop? The signal may have been 800 X 600, but the detail was considerably less. I saw windows XP display setting telling the monitor was at 800x600, 32 bit color quality. The display resolution was clear better than standard VGA mode. What do you expect to use this monitor for? That information might help me give a clearer explanation. I reserved one PC for P2P downloading function so I don't need a high end PC (PII PC). I don't need a high 1024x768 resolution screen. The PC was old so its size (limited by main case size) couldn't be shrinked but the monitor could. Actually now I have one 15" monitor shared by 2 old PCs but since I will move this P2P purpose PC to another location, I need a separate monitor which size is expected as small as possible. The display card used doesn't make a difference as long as the refresh rate can be set low enough, and interlace can be selected. What you bought isa very limited monitor completely unsuited for text display at 800 X 600. It might be suitable for NTSC or PAL resolution, but 800 X 600 ditigal images will be considerabally degraded. Then how to explain what's seen in the shop ? What I saw told me it could support 800x600 resolution without quality degrade. May be as you said I need to go back the shop and clarify something. I'll do this later. Phil Weldon |
#13
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Can't use higher resolution with Topcon 10" monitor
Let me summarize up the story here (hope it's not too lengthy ;)
1. At 29-Nov-05, I bought a 2nd hand 10" monitor (Topcon VS-10S) from shop. I intended to use it to connect my PII PC (P2L97 motherboard) w/ NVIDIA RIVA TNT display card & XP Professional installed. 2. I could get normal VGA display from 10" monitor connected to PII PC. Tested WinXP display setting: 640x480, 32 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., PnP monitor (normal output) Tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., PnP monitor (messy output) 3. Display output was turned into messy as I change the display setting to value other than 640x480, others kept unchanged. 4. First posted message here. 5. At 30-Nov-05, I connected the 10" monitor to my Althon PC (MP-7VIP-DR-LE motherboard) w/ winFast S610 AGP display card (called it NVIDIA GeForce 2DDR in previous messages) w/ ME & XP Professional installed in C: & D: respectively. Display driver used that available from XP. 6. Replied messages here. 7. I booted the Althon PC into XP. Then I tried changed display setting from 1024x768 to 800x600, display output turned into a mess. Tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., PnP monitor (messy output) Tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 70Hz vert. freq., PnP monitor (messy output) Tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 72Hz vert. freq., PnP monitor (messy output) Tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 75Hz vert. freq., PnP monitor (messy output) Note: above setting was changed by connecting PC with my Samsung SyncMaster 151B LCD monitor then swapped connection to 10" monitor after setting effective. During the test, I've called the shop on phone, they reminded me to make sure vert. freq. was at 60Hz. 8. Discussed case with Phil here. 9. At 1-Nov-05, I tried connect the 10" monitor to my 3rd PC, also a PII PC (P2L97 motherboard) w/ WinFast 3D L2300 AGP display card w/ XP Home installed. Display driver used that available from XP. 10. I tested below WinXP display settings, tests failed. Tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., PnP monitor (messy output) Tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 70Hz vert. freq., PnP monitor (messy output) Tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 72Hz vert. freq., PnP monitor (messy output) Tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 75Hz vert. freq., PnP monitor (messy output) Note: this PC was connected to NEC MultiSync V520 while changing display setting. 11. I went to the shop again by 1-Nov-05 evening, the staff tested my 10" monitor at their PC, no problem at all at 800x600, 60Hz vert. freq. I checked from XP display properties, they used Matrox Millennium 550G display card with dual display output, one connected to original Philips 105S monitor, another to this 10" monitor. I asked them why will that happened. They had no idea. One guy suggested me re-installed display driver (may be it's not update). What a suggestion !!! Finally they gave me another Topcon 10" monitor (called it NEW 10" MON below). 12. I tested the NEW 10" MON at my Althon PC with below display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., PnP monitor (messy output) 13. Suddenly, I remembered this PC also has ME installed. So I booted into ME & ran the tests again. Test failed with below settings: Tested WinME display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., SyncMaster 151B monitor (messy output) 14. At this point, I almost gave up. I tried it again in my PII PC w/ WinFast 3D L2300 display card using below setting: Tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 16 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., PnP monitor (normal output) Bingo! 15. I changed the setting to 32 bit color, I could see normal output too! 16. I repeated the test again at Althon PC w/ XP booted. Firstly I used 800x600, 16 bit color, test successful. Then I changed the color to 32 bit with no problem. 17. While my PII PC w/ WinFast 3D L2300 display card still had 800x600, 32 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., PnP monitor setting effective, I plugged the NEW 10" MON again to this PC. Bingo! Display output was normal, no need to change setting to 16 bit color first. 18. Test finished. Up to now, I still can't provide a explanation for this strange behaviour. I only know that lower the color depth first for this 10" monitor first is a safe setting. PS: I'm not sure if I had tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 16 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., PnP monitor (messy output) at step 7. But even if I did, I'd tested it after using 32 bit color setting. |
#14
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Can't use higher resolution with Topcon 10" monitor
Thanks very much for posting your further tests and the successful results.
That will be a big help for others with similar problems. Could you restate what does work? I get the impression that only the lower color depth works (16 bit rather than 32 bit). Is this correct? I should have asked you to describe 'messy' better. Evidently the problem is with bandwidth rather than sync, and your 'messy' meant fuzzy and ghosty with strange contrast rather than crawling streaks and a disorganized image. Is this a correct statement? Phil Weldon "emil_lam" wrote in message oups.com... | Let me summarize up the story here (hope it's not too lengthy ;) | | 1. At 29-Nov-05, I bought a 2nd hand 10" monitor (Topcon VS-10S) from | shop. I intended to use it to connect my PII PC (P2L97 | | motherboard) w/ NVIDIA RIVA TNT display card & XP Professional | installed. | | 2. I could get normal VGA display from 10" monitor connected to PII PC. | | Tested WinXP display setting: 640x480, 32 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., | PnP monitor (normal output) | Tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., | PnP monitor (messy output) | | 3. Display output was turned into messy as I change the display setting | to value other than 640x480, others kept unchanged. | | 4. First posted message here. | | 5. At 30-Nov-05, I connected the 10" monitor to my Althon PC | (MP-7VIP-DR-LE motherboard) w/ winFast S610 AGP display card | | (called it NVIDIA GeForce 2DDR in previous messages) w/ ME & XP | Professional installed in C: & D: respectively. Display | | driver used that available from XP. | | 6. Replied messages here. | | 7. I booted the Althon PC into XP. Then I tried changed display setting | from 1024x768 to 800x600, display output turned into | | a mess. | | Tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., | PnP monitor (messy output) | Tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 70Hz vert. freq., | PnP monitor (messy output) | Tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 72Hz vert. freq., | PnP monitor (messy output) | Tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 75Hz vert. freq., | PnP monitor (messy output) | | Note: above setting was changed by connecting PC with my Samsung | SyncMaster 151B LCD monitor then swapped connection to 10" | | monitor after setting effective. | | During the test, I've called the shop on phone, they reminded me to | make sure vert. freq. was at 60Hz. | | 8. Discussed case with Phil here. | | 9. At 1-Nov-05, I tried connect the 10" monitor to my 3rd PC, also a | PII PC (P2L97 motherboard) w/ WinFast 3D L2300 AGP | | display card w/ XP Home installed. Display driver used that available | from XP. | | 10. I tested below WinXP display settings, tests failed. | | Tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., | PnP monitor (messy output) | Tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 70Hz vert. freq., | PnP monitor (messy output) | Tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 72Hz vert. freq., | PnP monitor (messy output) | Tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 75Hz vert. freq., | PnP monitor (messy output) | | Note: this PC was connected to NEC MultiSync V520 while changing | display setting. | | 11. I went to the shop again by 1-Nov-05 evening, the staff tested my | 10" monitor at their PC, no problem at all at 800x600, | | 60Hz vert. freq. | | I checked from XP display properties, they used Matrox Millennium 550G | display card with dual display output, one connected | | to original Philips 105S monitor, another to this 10" monitor. | | I asked them why will that happened. They had no idea. One guy | suggested me re-installed display driver (may be it's not | | update). What a suggestion !!! | | Finally they gave me another Topcon 10" monitor (called it NEW 10" MON | below). | | 12. I tested the NEW 10" MON at my Althon PC with below display | setting: | | 800x600, 32 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., PnP monitor (messy output) | | 13. Suddenly, I remembered this PC also has ME installed. So I booted | into ME & ran the tests again. Test failed with below | | settings: | | Tested WinME display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., | SyncMaster 151B monitor (messy output) | | 14. At this point, I almost gave up. I tried it again in my PII PC w/ | WinFast 3D L2300 display card using below setting: | | Tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 16 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., | PnP monitor (normal output) | | Bingo! | | 15. I changed the setting to 32 bit color, I could see normal output | too! | | 16. I repeated the test again at Althon PC w/ XP booted. Firstly I used | 800x600, 16 bit color, test successful. Then I | | changed the color to 32 bit with no problem. | | 17. While my PII PC w/ WinFast 3D L2300 display card still had 800x600, | 32 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., PnP monitor setting | | effective, I plugged the NEW 10" MON again to this PC. Bingo! Display | output was normal, no need to change setting to 16 bit | | color first. | | 18. Test finished. | | Up to now, I still can't provide a explanation for this strange | behaviour. I only know that lower the color depth first for | | this 10" monitor first is a safe setting. | | PS: I'm not sure if I had tested WinXP display setting: 800x600, 16 bit | color, 60Hz vert. freq., PnP monitor (messy output) at step 7. But even | if I did, I'd tested it after using 32 bit color setting. | |
#15
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Can't use higher resolution with Topcon 10" monitor
Phil Weldon 寫道: Thanks very much for posting your further tests and the successful results. That will be a big help for others with similar problems. Could you restate what does work? WinXP display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., PnP monitor WinXP display setting: 800x600, 16 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., PnP monitor These settings worked on both my Althon & PII PC (not included that mentioned at step 1 because that PC got disk read problem before XP even started after my failed tests at 29-Nov-05 night). I haven't tested these settings in ME installation yet because it's late night now here. At first I thought setting 16 bit color triggered the result. Later I doubt this "finding" because after step 17. I did rebooted the PII PC again with NEW 10" MON connected from start to end of reboot without changing color depth at all and nothing abnormal appeared in graphics output at all. So I couldn't explain the result of step 12. I get the impression that only the lower color depth works (16 bit rather than 32 bit). Is this correct? I should have asked you to describe 'messy' I thought so at first but found 32 bit also worked (described in steps 15-17) later. better. Evidently the problem is with bandwidth rather than sync, and your 'messy' meant fuzzy and ghosty with strange contrast rather than crawling streaks and a disorganized image. Is this a correct statement? Sorry for my poor English (not my mother language). I meant I saw duplicated & fuzzy ghost images of windows desktop screen overlapping each other across the screen. Phil Weldon |
#16
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Can't use higher resolution with Topcon 10" monitor
'emil_lam' wrote, in part:
| Could you restate what does work? | | WinXP display setting: 800x600, 32 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., PnP | monitor | WinXP display setting: 800x600, 16 bit color, 60Hz vert. freq., PnP | monitor | | These settings worked on both my Althon & PII PC (not included that | mentioned at step 1 because that PC got disk read problem before XP | even started after my failed tests at 29-Nov-05 night). _____ As 'Chuck' posted in this thread, the key factor may be a setting to 'interlace' rather than 'non-interlace.' That would fit | your description of the image, and it could be that 'interlace' has now been selected. Glad it is working for you. How good is the text image? Phil Weldon "emil_lam" wrote in message oups.com... .. .. .. |
#17
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Can't use higher resolution with Topcon 10" monitor
Chuck 寫道: The key just might be the 800x600 interlace vs non interlace setting on the video card. The last time I got into this sort of thing, the video card settings (Whatever the ATI video card was at the time) did not include a setting for interlace/non interlace until it was set to TV compatable resolutions. I don't know because I've no idea of how to change interlace setting for my video cards, or if they are available for user configuration. Do you mean some video cards will change to interlace mode automatically for some TV compatible resolution like 800x600 ? Can't get your meaning. |
#18
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Can't use higher resolution with Topcon 10" monitor
But I've no idea of how to change the interlace setting unless the
video cards do it automatically for me. Anyway, after changing the resolution, more icons & window content could be displayed on screen compared with 640x480. Image was clear & I'm happy with that. |
#19
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Can't use higher resolution with Topcon 10" monitor
I'm glad the problem is gone.
The interlace vs. non interlace issue was one that was most prevalent at the 800x600 resolution and analog monitors of old design or limited screen size. A 10" monitor falls into one and possibly both. Another possible issue had to do with the video card output signals and timing. I'm not sure how to explain this, but some displays can "talk" digitally to the video card and it's drivers. This can cause the video card to setup/tweak timing to match the display. If an incompatable timing was setup, this might explain some of your problems and results. If the display uses an older setup scheme, such as an .inf file, the tweaking is generally done within it. "emil_lam" wrote in message oups.com... But I've no idea of how to change the interlace setting unless the video cards do it automatically for me. Anyway, after changing the resolution, more icons & window content could be displayed on screen compared with 640x480. Image was clear & I'm happy with that. |
#20
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Can't use higher resolution with Topcon 10" monitor
"emil_lam" wrote in message oups.com... But I've no idea of how to change the interlace setting unless the video cards do it automatically for me. Anyway, after changing the resolution, more icons & window content could be displayed on screen compared with 640x480. Image was clear & I'm happy with that. Probably the monitor worked at 800 by 600 56 Hz refresh - that was a common refresh rate when Win95/98 was around. Also sounds like the monitor does not have "plug-n-play" (EDID) capability, so you have to set it manually. Try setting refresh to 56 Hz. 'Course it will have some flicker, but that's the price of using the old cheapie.... NGA |
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