Cooling advice URGENTLY sought!!

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 17:43:39 +0100, "Miss Perspicacia Tick"
wrote:

rstlne wrote:
Just so we're clear - this http://tinyurl.com/2l4vq is the case in
question...There is only ONE case fan at the back - that's it, there
isn't room for any others.


There are 2 more in the front
I am guessing that you dont have them hooked up..

Yep, I see them and they are connected - all they're cooling though are the
HDs (of which there are three). Any other suggestions?


They're not "just" cooling the HDDs though, they are the intake flow for
the whole system, which is why I prevoiusly suggested looking at
increasing that flow rate by reduction of intake impedance. The
alternative is a different, 2nd intake point. Due to design of the case
that 2nd point would be a side panel, and it's the easiest way to go
without havin to disassemble entire system since side panel comes off and
metal shavings from cutting the hole won't be an issue.

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 15:41:03 +0100, "Miss Perspicacia Tick"
wrote:


I darest not do it, in case I invalidate the warranty. I'll have to ask Ben
if it's safe and if he'll replace anything that melts! There is a 15°C
difference between case and CPU now (28° vs 43°).


"case" or "system" temp usually isnt' the actual temp of the case air,
rather the temp of a 2nd chip in the system, that chip creating it's own
heat. It is a bit of a misnomer to call it such but the trend persists,
unfortunately, as propagated by the board manufacturers.

Since you don't want to alter anything this thread is only academic, you
need to have Ben take a look at it.

kony wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 15:41:03 +0100, "Miss Perspicacia Tick"
wrote:


I darest not do it, in case I invalidate the warranty. I'll have to
ask Ben if it's safe and if he'll replace anything that melts! There
is a 15°C difference between case and CPU now (28° vs 43°).


"case" or "system" temp usually isnt' the actual temp of the case
air, rather the temp of a 2nd chip in the system, that chip creating
it's own heat. It is a bit of a misnomer to call it such but the
trend persists, unfortunately, as propagated by the board
manufacturers.

Since you don't want to alter anything this thread is only academic,
you need to have Ben take a look at it.

Dave,

You have to realise that there are two things we women know nothing about -
computers and cars! Yes, it is academic, but I really wanted to know what
the problem could be. All I know idling at 60 and topping at 80 ain't good!

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 22:18:26 +0100, "Miss Perspicacia Tick"
wrote:


Since you don't want to alter anything this thread is only academic,
you need to have Ben take a look at it.

Dave,

You have to realise that there are two things we women know nothing about -
computers and cars! Yes, it is academic, but I really wanted to know what
the problem could be. All I know idling at 60 and topping at 80 ain't good!


That is more than many men know.

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 17:47:03 +0100, "Miss Perspicacia Tick"
wrote:

Shep© wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 15:41:03 +0100 As another one bit the dust "Miss
Perspicacia Tick" wrote :

Ben Pope wrote:
Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:
The case temperature with the side off is 28°C - on
it's fluctuates between 34° and 35°. Do you think a 120mm on the HS
would be a good idea (I'd have to send it back to Ben for that, I
can't do it myself).

Thats interesting. Case temps rise 6°C with the side on, but CPU
temps rise over 20°C? Are you sure?

Does the pope **** in the wood? Is the Bear Catholic?! or
something...

So your CPU temps are over 30°C hotter than your case temp?

Correct.

Just to confirm this:

Under load (say Prim95 Torture test for half an hour), what is your
diode temp, case temp, and room temp?

What about with the side off?

Ben

I darest not do it, in case I invalidate the warranty. I'll have to
ask Ben if it's safe and if he'll replace anything that melts! There
is a 15°C difference between case and CPU now (28° vs 43°).

The last time I saw this the HS was orientated the wrong way on the
top of the CPU?
On AMD systems at least there is a lip under the HS that should fit
over the raised part of the CPU well so that the HS sits flush on the
core of the CPU.Also I remove the crappy thermal gum,polish/lap the HS
bottom and use thermal paste.
HTH

I'll have to talk to Ben about it - I don't want to do anything myself in
case (ha ha!) it blows up or melts or something! He won't be too happy and I
really don't like complaining!

Assuming that the H/S is not on arse first, and that the sensors are
reading / interpreted correctly - you have may have a dead spot.

The CFM of the rear fan is not disclosed, and it's of the cheap ****
sleve variety. Pass through [ no stampings ] on that 80mm hole is
excellent but I question the ability of a poorly located exhaust fan
which is placed high for the GPU and placed low for the case ceiling
[creating a dead spot at the top of the case] to do it's job.

It's not the job of exhausting the x2 front intakes, which are behind
pillars which seems poor to me although I assume that WD's approved of
the Safari's means they are happy with the arrangement. rather that
the intakes may be so low as to create insufficient throughput of '
turbulence ' to carry the airflow to the exhaust fan [ singular ] .

It's a ' guesstimate ' but I'd put a temporary megga delta fan in the
rear to see if it can pick-up-the-flow before (a) it creates a dead
spot before, or after (b) [ back pressure ] the 80mm exhaust.

At £100+ plusUK, it's a poor performance / set up for an alloy case. I
don't have one and have never seen one but the case design apart from
the front air intake seems reasonable to good, so I'm left with fan
arrangement [s] and their [ ability ] specification.

BoroLad

N.B. change the rear to a 5k *uck off delta, what do you get ?

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:17:13 +0100, Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:

[...]

I /CAN'T/ have any more fans - there's nowhere to put them! There's only
space for the one exhaust fan!

Are your temp readings in Celsius or Fahrenheit?
Just as thought...

--
GW De Lacey

kony's last words before the Sword of Azrial plunged through his body
we
No, you do not want an 120mm fan for the CPU. It won't even fit, there
are no heatsinks that I'm aware of that can use 120mm, at most it would be
92mm, but even then you would likely need an adapter. 80mm is correct
size for your heatsink, the most you should do is select a different 80mm
fan with higher flow rate, though of course it will be louder.

I have seen some setups for doing it, and also as you said you can also
get an adapter.

Also, get more fans. Never can have too many. But then again, I go for
over kill, and I barely have any fans in my system currently (by my
standards) and I can hear it across the house.
I /CAN'T/ have any more fans - there's nowhere to put them! There's only
space for the one exhaust fan!
Adding a fan to the side panel would require cutting out a new hole.
There it "might" be reasonable to use 120mm, though you shouldn't need
more than the lowest RPM model from any maker, to keep noise low as a
higher RPM 120mm fan can be quite noisey.

Still, should be a spot up front and in back for putting in fans.

GW De Lacey's last words before the Sword of Azrial plunged through his
body we
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:17:13 +0100, Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:
I /CAN'T/ have any more fans - there's nowhere to put them! There's only
space for the one exhaust fan!
Are your temp readings in Celsius or Fahrenheit?
Just as thought...

Either way, thats way too hot. 160 degrees is to hot for fahrenheit or
celsius

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 03:14:58 GMT, Hellmark
wrote:

kony's last words before the Sword of Azrial plunged through his body
we
No, you do not want an 120mm fan for the CPU. It won't even fit, there
are no heatsinks that I'm aware of that can use 120mm, at most it would be
92mm, but even then you would likely need an adapter. 80mm is correct
size for your heatsink, the most you should do is select a different 80mm
fan with higher flow rate, though of course it will be louder.

I have seen some setups for doing it, and also as you said you can also
get an adapter.

But there is no gain to doing it.
Beyond a certain point the adapter is adding so much air volume between
the fan and 'sink that it's robbing the fan of CFM by maintaining this
pressurized region. The optimal fan size is that where the opening is
matched to the 'sink fins, while the fan sits as near the 'sink as
possible, not raised up off of it more than a few mm.

If greater flow rate through a sink is needed, beyond a 92mm fan it's
necessary to use a thicker fan, higher RPM, or adapt the 'sink to a
squirrel cage blower, which is extreme enough in itself that water cooling
may easily be a better alternative though more expensive.

Also, get more fans. Never can have too many. But then again, I go for
over kill, and I barely have any fans in my system currently (by my
standards) and I can hear it across the house.
I /CAN'T/ have any more fans - there's nowhere to put them! There's only
space for the one exhaust fan!
Adding a fan to the side panel would require cutting out a new hole.
There it "might" be reasonable to use 120mm, though you shouldn't need
more than the lowest RPM model from any maker, to keep noise low as a
higher RPM 120mm fan can be quite noisey.

Still, should be a spot up front and in back for putting in fans.

She linked pics of the case which show the two front bay fans, which draw
from behind a recessed area on the front bezel, but that's still a lot of
minor flow restrictions adding up to a significant enough flow reduction
to be an issue becaue of the higher heat parts inside. Two fans with
nothing on either side, impeding them, would suffice. That case just
isn't very well engineered considering that anyone with a budget to use
it, will likely put similar funds towards higher-performance gear inside.

kony's last words before the Sword of Azrial plunged through his body
we
But there is no gain to doing it.
Beyond a certain point the adapter is adding so much air volume between
the fan and 'sink that it's robbing the fan of CFM by maintaining this
pressurized region. The optimal fan size is that where the opening is
matched to the 'sink fins, while the fan sits as near the 'sink as
possible, not raised up off of it more than a few mm.

Depends on the sink, there are a few setups meant for larger fans.

Still, should be a spot up front and in back for putting in fans.
She linked pics of the case which show the two front bay fans, which draw
from behind a recessed area on the front bezel, but that's still a lot of
minor flow restrictions adding up to a significant enough flow reduction
to be an issue becaue of the higher heat parts inside. Two fans with
nothing on either side, impeding them, would suffice. That case just
isn't very well engineered considering that anyone with a budget to use
it, will likely put similar funds towards higher-performance gear inside.

I didnt get that post on my server.