MSI 6600GT with VIVO ... video capture problems and virtual dub

wrote:

Hello,
This is my first posting to this group.
A friend of mine just bought a 6600gt MSI with VIVO for the purposes
of capturing video from his Sony digital video camera using Virtual
Dub.
I used to do this with an old ti4800se with no problems and captured
awesome looking videos via the composite input (i.e. rca video out of
a VCR to the video in on the composite cable) and have done the same
with his digi cam.

The problem:
The WDM drivers don't seem to work right. I have tried using both
older and newer drivers (video and wdm), as well as what is included
on the MSI cd. Nothing works.
When opening up Virtual Dub (v. 1.5.6) it says it cannot open the wdm
driver, then says it is trying all available drivers, then it pops up
a "panic" error "cannot open wdm driver". I have never seen this
"panic" error before and I have captured many hours of video using
VIVO on another card (ti4800se) using only v-dub.
He is able to capture via USB from the camera, using MSI's software,
but that doesn't give very good results compared to the vivo captures
I have done in the past.
I have tried everything I can think of to get this thing working, any
ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks.

specs
Asus a7n8x deluxe
AMD 2400+
768 MB pc2100
MSI 6600GT w/ vivo
SB audigy gamer


I do quite a bit of video capture, but I can't answer why you're having
the problem you described. I do have a suggestion, however - doesn't
the a7n8x have a firewire connection? The digital camera should have a
firewire connection as well. That is the best way to capture video - it
captures both audio and video, and it does not use the wdm drivers to do so.

If you can't use firewire, at least make sure you are using the latest
VIVO drivers for the 6600GT - version 4.09 available from the nVidia
website.

Good Luck

David

wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:33:42 -0700, "David P. Greer"
wrote:


wrote:


Hello,
This is my first posting to this group.
A friend of mine just bought a 6600gt MSI with VIVO for the purposes
of capturing video from his Sony digital video camera using Virtual
Dub.
I used to do this with an old ti4800se with no problems and captured
awesome looking videos via the composite input (i.e. rca video out of
a VCR to the video in on the composite cable) and have done the same
with his digi cam.

The problem:
The WDM drivers don't seem to work right. I have tried using both
older and newer drivers (video and wdm), as well as what is included
on the MSI cd. Nothing works.
When opening up Virtual Dub (v. 1.5.6) it says it cannot open the wdm
driver, then says it is trying all available drivers, then it pops up
a "panic" error "cannot open wdm driver". I have never seen this
"panic" error before and I have captured many hours of video using
VIVO on another card (ti4800se) using only v-dub.
He is able to capture via USB from the camera, using MSI's software,
but that doesn't give very good results compared to the vivo captures
I have done in the past.
I have tried everything I can think of to get this thing working, any
ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks.

specs
Asus a7n8x deluxe
AMD 2400+
768 MB pc2100
MSI 6600GT w/ vivo
SB audigy gamer


I do quite a bit of video capture, but I can't answer why you're having
the problem you described. I do have a suggestion, however - doesn't
the a7n8x have a firewire connection? The digital camera should have a
firewire connection as well. That is the best way to capture video - it
captures both audio and video, and it does not use the wdm drivers to do so.

If you can't use firewire, at least make sure you are using the latest
VIVO drivers for the 6600GT - version 4.09 available from the nVidia
website.

Good Luck

David



Yes the MB has firewire, we haven't tried that, but if I'm not
mistaken it isn't currently hooked up. It plugs into the MB and takes
up a pci slot in the back of the case.
We also haven't tried latest wdm drivers from nvidia.com, just the
ones on the MSI cd (shouldn't *those* work?) and some older 6x7x_v1.08
wdm drivers (pre-macrovision) I used to use with the ti4800se. I will
try the drivers from the site.
But the main objective is to use the VIVO (it's the only reason he
bought the card) because Virtual-Dub captures at 720x480 and 30 fps,
RAW RGB something I haven't seen any USB based capture software do,
even the stuff that comes with actual "video capture" cards.
Also if I'm not mistaken, Virtual Dub's capture input options only
include TV Tuner/S-Video/Video Composite.
If the FireWire method yields the same results, then I'll be thrilled,
but based on my experience, VIVO is the way to go.

The older (v1.0x) VIVO drivers do not work on nVidia cards in the 6xxx
family. I think the ones on the MSI CD are version 4.05, and nVidia
updated those with version 4.09.

I use the MSI 6600GT card with VIVO to capture video from a VCR (SVHS
connection) and from an old analog video camera (composite connection.)
I also capture from a Canon digital camcorder using the firewire
connection. Without question, the firewire method is superior. You can
capture at DV settings - file size is about 12GB! per hour - far
superior to mpeg2 settings. The capture software also controls the
camera directly, so you don't have to push any buttons on the camera.

As far as your menu choices on the software, be aware that some software
will not display the digital firewire source connection unless it is
actually hooked up. I use 3 different programs, from Sonic, Ulead and
Televiewer Systems. In all 3, when I do not have the digital camera
plugged in, only the nVidia wdm shows up as a source option. If I plug
in the digital camera with firewire, the camera appears as a source
option, and DV quality capture appears in the recording settings option box.

I have found there are some programs that are incompatible with wdm
drivers - for example, the older Ulead program would not capture from
analog sources and did not support wdm drivers. They updated the
program with wdm support later.

You might want to contact your software support to see if there is a
compatibility problem with the wdm drivers.

Hope this helps

David

wrote:


Hmmm, thanks for the info. I will definitely be trying out the newer
drivers 4.09, and I'll also give the firewire a shot.
As far as filesize, the way I am used to capturing video through
Virtual Dub, the files are about 1GB per minute of video, and audio,
before any compression, and are AVI format. I hate mpeg files,
personally, but probably because Virtual Dub primarily uses AVI's, and
like I said, it is what I'm used to. And since I'm trying to teach a
friend about this, I figured I'd stick with what I know, and set him
up with something similar to what I have used.
But I am most certainly not opposed to trying something new,
especially if it may give better results, or just as good.
Also, the main reason I always used the 1.08 WDM drivers (on my
ti4800se) was because the newer capture drivers would put thick white
bars across my image, as a form of macrovision protection, whenever I
tried to go from VHS through the VIVO. The 1.08 driver didn't, and as
I understood it was the last one to NOT have the macrovision included.
It did this regardless of the tape, I was transferring home movies,
but it thought I was creating an illegal copy of something.
Have you ever experienced this with the 6600GT, using new drivers?
Hopefully Nvidia fixed this problem.
Anyhow, I won't have access to his computer untill tomorrow sometime,
so I'll let you know if this solves our problem.
Thanks.

The 1.08 drivers will not work at all with the 6600GT. When you go to
the nVidia web site you will see that you have to choose between FX
series or earlier, or 6000 series. I tried the 1.08s and the 2.26s with
my 6600, and though they installed, I got no video at all through the
system.

You are right about the copy protection issue - I get the white bar
anytime I try to view a commercially produced tape through VIVO. I do
NOT get it when viewing any home-made recordings.

BTW, when using firewire, the recording is captured in AVI format,
though you can select a lower resolution format if you need to for some
reason.

Good Luck

David

wrote:

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:33:42 -0700, "David P. Greer"
wrote:

wrote:

Hello,
This is my first posting to this group.
A friend of mine just bought a 6600gt MSI with VIVO for the purposes
of capturing video from his Sony digital video camera using Virtual
Dub.
I used to do this with an old ti4800se with no problems and captured
awesome looking videos via the composite input (i.e. rca video out of
a VCR to the video in on the composite cable) and have done the same
with his digi cam.

The problem:
The WDM drivers don't seem to work right. I have tried using both
older and newer drivers (video and wdm), as well as what is included
on the MSI cd. Nothing works.
When opening up Virtual Dub (v. 1.5.6) it says it cannot open the wdm
driver, then says it is trying all available drivers, then it pops up
a "panic" error "cannot open wdm driver". I have never seen this
"panic" error before and I have captured many hours of video using
VIVO on another card (ti4800se) using only v-dub.
He is able to capture via USB from the camera, using MSI's software,
but that doesn't give very good results compared to the vivo captures
I have done in the past.
I have tried everything I can think of to get this thing working, any
ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks.

specs
Asus a7n8x deluxe
AMD 2400+
768 MB pc2100
MSI 6600GT w/ vivo
SB audigy gamer


I do quite a bit of video capture, but I can't answer why you're having
the problem you described. I do have a suggestion, however - doesn't
the a7n8x have a firewire connection? The digital camera should have a
firewire connection as well. That is the best way to capture video - it
captures both audio and video, and it does not use the wdm drivers to do
so.

If you can't use firewire, at least make sure you are using the latest
VIVO drivers for the 6600GT - version 4.09 available from the nVidia
website.

Good Luck

David


Yes the MB has firewire, we haven't tried that, but if I'm not
mistaken it isn't currently hooked up. It plugs into the MB and takes
up a pci slot in the back of the case.
We also haven't tried latest wdm drivers from nvidia.com, just the
ones on the MSI cd (shouldn't *those* work?) and some older 6x7x_v1.08
wdm drivers (pre-macrovision) I used to use with the ti4800se. I will
try the drivers from the site.
But the main objective is to use the VIVO (it's the only reason he
bought the card) because Virtual-Dub captures at 720x480 and 30 fps,
RAW RGB something I haven't seen any USB based capture software do,
even the stuff that comes with actual "video capture" cards.
Also if I'm not mistaken, Virtual Dub's capture input options only
include TV Tuner/S-Video/Video Composite.
If the FireWire method yields the same results, then I'll be thrilled,
but based on my experience, VIVO is the way to go.

Google "generation loss". Every time you do an analog copy you lose image
quality. VIVO capture is essentially an analog copy. If you are concerned
about image quality this is _not_ the way to go.

Incidentally, Virtual Dub _stores_ at 720x480, it _captures_ whatever the
ADC in the video board can capture and on VIVO boards that ADC is usually
not very good.

If you're using a digital camcorder, you've _already_ captured the video,
all you have to do is copy it onto your disk for editing. Any decent
video-editing program can do that for you via Firewire and the newer ones
via USB if your camcorder supports that mode of operation--you don't need a
separate capture program if you're working in digital video.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

wrote:


Google "generation loss". Every time you do an analog copy you lose image
quality. VIVO capture is essentially an analog copy. If you are
concerned about image quality this is _not_ the way to go.

Incidentally, Virtual Dub _stores_ at 720x480, it _captures_ whatever the
ADC in the video board can capture and on VIVO boards that ADC is usually
not very good.

If you're using a digital camcorder, you've _already_ captured the video,
all you have to do is copy it onto your disk for editing. Any decent
video-editing program can do that for you via Firewire and the newer ones
via USB if your camcorder supports that mode of operation--you don't need
a separate capture program if you're working in digital video.



Hello John,
Thanks for the reply, I am however aware of the analog conversion, I
wasn't aware that the capture wouldn't necessarily be a true 720x480,
that is interesting. However, I was comparing results I have
experienced personally using this fellow's camera, USB vs. VIVO, and
the USB transfers look like crap.

What kind of USB transfer are you using? Is it to a nonlinear editing
program that supports DV over USB?

I haven't actually used this guy's
camera that much, but it uses those little super 8 cassette type
digital tapes.

Can those be transferred in the manner you suggest? Or
do those have to play through since they're tapes?

This is one of the purposes for which Firewire was created, and yes, a
digital 8 camcorder supports Firewire transfers of DV.

I imagine that
since his camera uses digital tapes, instead of a disk, it would be a
very similar process to record from the camera to the computer much
like I have done using a VCR through the VIVO, where the tape has to
play through at normal speed, not like a data transfer.

The camera doesn't in general have the electronics to pull data off the tape
faster than it was written--if you recorded an hour of video in the camera
it takes an hour to pull it off, but you can fast forward to the section
you want, pull it off, and so on. With decent software you don't have to
touch the camera once it's hooked up except to change tapes.

This is why I
am guessing that the video from the camera needs to be *captured* more
so than *transferred*.
It might be a day or two before I can get back over to his place to
try some of this stuff, so if anyone has anymore suggestions, fire
away, I appreciate everyone's help.

If he's running XP, when you plug in the Firewire cable the camcorder should
be recognized automatically. You'll be presented with a menu of
options--Windows Movie Maker will be on the list and it should be fine for
dinking around. It can transcode to other formats on import if you don't
want to use DV, but the default should be standard consumer DV at
720x480x30fps.

Thanks.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)