8800 - wait and see...

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 22:47:11 -0500, "First of One" root@localhost
wrote:

" wrote in message
oups.com...
Unfortunately this is at huge cost in compatibility. Not unexpected,
but there are some major issues with fairly popular games. Some brand
cards cannot even load the latest drivers. My eVGA could use the
97.44's direct from nVidia, but the stupid nTune app refuses to
install.

Any time you have a separate piece of software released independently from
the core drivers, you will be constantly dogged with version mismatch and
other conflicts. Look at ATi's MMC, quite a mess. Then again, why do you
need nTune? Overclocking shouldn't be necessary for another year or so with
this card.

I'm trying to find good forum info - nZone has a thread tracking the
current bugs. Luckily if I have anything I'm desperate to play I have
an ATI1600 in my "office tasks" PC, and a 6800Ultra in my media box
hooked to the TV.

Sigh Having to constantly fall back on a secondary box to play games that
your new $600 toy can't run, is unacceptable. Interestingly, I don't recall
the Radeon 9700 having as many issues at launch.

Your memory is very short. There were some very big initial hiccups.

And ATi (er, AMD) are still lagging in OpenGL and Linux driver
support.

When a new GPU architecture is released, it is a very wise (and
money-saving) idea to wait six months for any hardware glitches to be
rectified, the MB and video card BIOS's to be stable and the
video-card drivers to be fully mature. Nice to have all the rich
suckers (er, early-adopters) helping straighten out all the kinks and
finance the bulk of the development cost.

John Lewis

John Lewis wrote:
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 22:47:11 -0500, "First of One" root@localhost
wrote:

" wrote in message
ups.com...
Unfortunately this is at huge cost in compatibility. Not unexpected,
but there are some major issues with fairly popular games. Some brand
cards cannot even load the latest drivers. My eVGA could use the
97.44's direct from nVidia, but the stupid nTune app refuses to
install.
Any time you have a separate piece of software released independently from
the core drivers, you will be constantly dogged with version mismatch and
other conflicts. Look at ATi's MMC, quite a mess. Then again, why do you
need nTune? Overclocking shouldn't be necessary for another year or so with
this card.

I'm trying to find good forum info - nZone has a thread tracking the
current bugs. Luckily if I have anything I'm desperate to play I have
an ATI1600 in my "office tasks" PC, and a 6800Ultra in my media box
hooked to the TV.
Sigh Having to constantly fall back on a secondary box to play games that
your new $600 toy can't run, is unacceptable. Interestingly, I don't recall
the Radeon 9700 having as many issues at launch.

Your memory is very short. There were some very big initial hiccups.


What hiccups are you talking about? The only one I knew of was an issue
with some of the early cards and some of the motherboards. I bought one
shortly after they came out and it has Never had any issues with
anything I have used it on. It is still going strong. The only problem
I ever had with the card was the heat output in my old case required a
separate fan to exhaust the fan's heat out the back.


And ATi (er, AMD) are still lagging in OpenGL and Linux driver
support.

When a new GPU architecture is released, it is a very wise (and
money-saving) idea to wait six months for any hardware glitches to be
rectified, the MB and video card BIOS's to be stable and the
video-card drivers to be fully mature. Nice to have all the rich
suckers (er, early-adopters) helping straighten out all the kinks and
finance the bulk of the development cost.


I bought my 9700 Pro on release as I was playing Morrowind and my 7500
was not enough for the game. I didn't feel like spending $200 or more
for another video card only to replace it in a few months.

John Lewis

I wanted all the GPU power I could get because I'm using TH2G. (3840x1024
resolution) so I bought a EVGA8800GTX.
ATI is not an option here because it doesn't support these resolution for
reasons unknown to me.

The upgrade was surprisingly mostly flawless. I had some Control Panel
quirks at the beginning but I changed card without re-installing drivers.
After a re-install, nTune and the CP are working great. (Without the Classic
CP but I can live with that)

For racing sim this has been a great upgrade (specially for GTL which I can
now run at 3840x1024 even on night races with great fps). GTL, GTR, GTR2,
Netkar, rFactor, RACE all run flawlessly.
On my older games, some DOS, some Win95, some newer ones, no problem either.

Reading the release note from the latest drivers, I'm lucky enough not to
play the games that have some problems, some being subtle. People looking
for a 8800 upgrade should read it before making a move.

Vista and DX10 will tell me, in a year or so, if I made a good move but for
the time being it's a pricey but great upgrade for my sim racing "needs"!

Claude Leclerc wrote:
I wanted all the GPU power I could get because I'm using TH2G. (3840x1024
resolution) so I bought a EVGA8800GTX.
ATI is not an option here because it doesn't support these resolution for
reasons unknown to me.

The upgrade was surprisingly mostly flawless. I had some Control Panel
quirks at the beginning but I changed card without re-installing drivers.
After a re-install, nTune and the CP are working great. (Without the Classic
CP but I can live with that)

For racing sim this has been a great upgrade (specially for GTL which I can
now run at 3840x1024 even on night races with great fps). GTL, GTR, GTR2,
Netkar, rFactor, RACE all run flawlessly.
On my older games, some DOS, some Win95, some newer ones, no problem either.

[snip]

What level of AA/AF are you able to run? I've got a 21" CRT now at
1600x1200 (max res) and I can comfortably run 8xQAA/16xAF (although
back of the grid at night in GTR2 is slow).
I'm considering getting a large LCD or small 1080p TV to game on.

Also, so far I haven't found the need to drop the D3D "frames rendered
ahead" from 3 to 0 to get rid of that annoying stutter ISI sims seem to
get. Are you seeing the same thing?

Thanks,
Kendt.

I want fairly high fps, especially online, so I don't go over 4x/4x in most
sims. (For GTR2/GTL with night racing I use 2xAA or none) I would need a 2nd
GTX in SLI to be able to raise AA/AF at the resolution I use. That's a lot
of $$$ (Another GTX and a 850W+ P/S).

I luckily don't have any stutters in rFactor and other ISI based sims. I use
nVidia drivers default except for AA/AF, no OC.

" wrote in message
ups.com...

What level of AA/AF are you able to run? I've got a 21" CRT now at
1600x1200 (max res) and I can comfortably run 8xQAA/16xAF (although
back of the grid at night in GTR2 is slow).
I'm considering getting a large LCD or small 1080p TV to game on.

Also, so far I haven't found the need to drop the D3D "frames rendered
ahead" from 3 to 0 to get rid of that annoying stutter ISI sims seem to
get. Are you seeing the same thing?

Thanks,
Kendt.

On 19 Dec 2006 14:28:08 -0800, "
wrote:


I've OC'd the 8800GTS to 600/900 w/o a problem so far.

Any chance that's the source of your "game-killing artifacts"?

I run 4AA, 16AF in everything on my 21" widescreen Gateway. 1680X1050X32.

I have everything maxed out in all the racing games I run.

Oh, that's on a 4800x2 and a GeForce 7800GTX.

8x AA is quite runable, but the fps drops to around 50 in NR2003, and I
prefer to keep it up over 100. Personally, I think the controls are more
responsive at uber-high fps.

-Larry

"Claude Leclerc" benquinAThotmail.com wrote in message
...
I want fairly high fps, especially online, so I don't go over 4x/4x in most
sims. (For GTR2/GTL with night racing I use 2xAA or none) I would need a
2nd
GTX in SLI to be able to raise AA/AF at the resolution I use. That's a lot
of $$$ (Another GTX and a 850W+ P/S).

I luckily don't have any stutters in rFactor and other ISI based sims. I
use
nVidia drivers default except for AA/AF, no OC.

" wrote in message
ups.com...

What level of AA/AF are you able to run? I've got a 21" CRT now at
1600x1200 (max res) and I can comfortably run 8xQAA/16xAF (although
back of the grid at night in GTR2 is slow).
I'm considering getting a large LCD or small 1080p TV to game on.

Also, so far I haven't found the need to drop the D3D "frames rendered
ahead" from 3 to 0 to get rid of that annoying stutter ISI sims seem to
get. Are you seeing the same thing?

Thanks,
Kendt.

Michael W. Ryder wrote:

I didn't feel like spending $200 or more
for another video card only to replace it in a few months.


Silly, that's what high end PC gaming is all about, constant hardware
improvements to take advantage of more sophisticated software algorithms.

And you are slightly off on your math, it's not $200 every few months,
for the real enthusiast it's $400 (just for the video card) every 6-9
months. Rich buyers move the old equipment like hand-me-downs through
the PC chain. More budget minded folk sell the still useful gear to
defray the cost of new gear, which can be a significant percentage of
the cost.

That methodology affords great performance and avoids all the pitfalls
of early adoption. I look forward to my Geforce 8 series purchase in
about three months when:

1) The chipset refresh will be announced/available
2) Many more choices of card-HSF-system board to suit my needs
3) Many Driver revisions will have occurred
4) Killer DX10 Apps/Games will be available
5) Prices have reached the $400 mark

Tick tock tick tock.

Folk wrote:
On 19 Dec 2006 14:28:08 -0800, "
wrote:


I've OC'd the 8800GTS to 600/900 w/o a problem so far.

Any chance that's the source of your "game-killing artifacts"?

Nope - documented bug in the nvZone forum, and visible before I OC'd.

wrote:
Folk wrote:
On 19 Dec 2006 14:28:08 -0800, "
wrote:


I've OC'd the 8800GTS to 600/900 w/o a problem so far.

Any chance that's the source of your "game-killing artifacts"?

Nope - documented bug in the nvZone forum, and visible before I OC'd.

OTOH, I haven't had a chance to try forcing particular shader versions
in Halo, which may be a work-around.

I started going through my games library, but decided to put the wheel
back on the desk and have fun .

So far, games I've tested include:

OK games: Prey, Q4, HL1+mods, Defcon demo, Darwinia demo, AvP2,
Area-51, GTR2, rFactor, Richard Burns Rally, FEAR, Sin1, Sin:episodes,
Dark Messiah
Games w/issues of any kind
HL2+mods - OK (although the forum documents some anomalies in HDR maps
in DOD:S/Lost Coast)
AvP - OK, with a minor in-game menu issue
Halo - completely borked