Upcoming & future Xbox 360 motherboard / chipset revisions aJasper, Opus and Valhalla - The Valhalla to have 65 or 45 nm combined CPU-GPUin 2009

http://www.8bitjoystick.com/index.php


There is not one but two secret Xbox cats that Microsoft has kept in
the bag. Currently there are three more Xbox 360 motherboards in the
works right now. They are.. dun dun dun.. Jasper, Opus and Valhalla.

If you are skeptical about this keep in mind that I've been early and
correct about this stuff before.


The original Xbox 360 motherboard is called the Xenon with both a 90
nm CPU and 90 nm GPU, there has been system cooling revisions to it.
Next was Zephyr motherboard with HDMI that was introduced with the
Xbox 360 Elite and and some had newer "heat pumps". Currently on the
market is Falcon with a cooler 65 nm CPU but still the same hot GPU as
the Xenon.

It's well known that the next Xbox 360 motherboard is going to be
Jasper and it going to have both a 65 nm CPU and a 65 nm GPU. Jasper
is going to be a major advancement in reliability since it is going to
run much quieter than previous Xbox 360 systems. Jasper's reliability
is in part to the fact that there is no place on the motherboard that
is going to be running as hot or as much power as previous Xbox 360
systems, also it might run a lot quieter since it will not need as
much power. When Microsoft hired IBM and ATI to provide the original
Xbox 360 CPU and GPU Microsoft put it in the contract so that the Xbox
team will own the technology for the chips and can make subsequent
reduced cost revisions to the chips. The Xbox one had leased
technology from Intel and Nvidia and that is one of the main reasons
for the change in CPU and GPU venders. Jasper is very real and they
are testing prototypes right now. Word from Redmond is that progress
on Jasper is going well and on schedule and you can expect it fall of
2008. My birthday is in October and I am probably going to upgrade to
a Jasper Xbox 360 if my Xenon lasts that long.

Now on to the big news. Are you ready... cue dramatic music..

The next two Xbox 360 motherboard names are "Opus" and "Valhalla"!!!



The Opus project is a "Falcon" generation motherboard designed to fit
in a Xenon case. You can expect an 90 nm GPU but a 65 nm CPU. Opus
solves a major hardware recycling and inventory problem since
Microsoft currently has millions of used Xenon cases from RRODed dead
systems and this lets them use most of the good parts from the
millions of dead Xenons but with a newer tested more reliable
motherboard.

There is no HDMI on Opus since the Xenon cases don't have openings for
the port. Opus is a third generation Xbox 360 in the case of a first.

I would trust an Opus Xbox much more than a "zombie repaired" Xenon
since you are getting a fresh motherboard. These will probably never
be boxed and sold directly to the public in stores so the only way to
get an Opus motherboard is to turn in a RRODed dead Xenon in late 2008
and you might get one returned. Opus is the "Zombie Xbox" killer. It's
the recycle repair special and is the sort of repair and refurbished
Xbox 360 that they should have had done in the first place.

Now they are also in the very early stages of designing the fourth
generation Xbox 360 called Valhalla. Think Technoviking cool, we are
your overlords.



At the heart of a Valhalla Xbox 360 is a combined 65nm CPU and 65nm
GPU on a unified super chip. This also would only need one cooling
system and be much quieter and hopefully more reliable than previous
Xbox systems (if they include hardware JTAG testing reporting into the
design).

It is really early in the design process but there are engineers at
Microsoft working on it as you are reading this. Heck they are
probably reading this since this is the first that you are going to
hear about Opus and Valhalla.

You can probably expect a price cut for Valhalla since it is going to
be a major cost reduction.

Valhalla might be the final Xbox 360 motherboard design but that all
might depend of the future progress of the third generation Xbox team
(the Xbox 720 or whatever they call it) and the overall market success
of the Xbox 360 platform.

Microsoft has planned on near annual changes to the Xbox 360
motherboard generation designs.

First was the Xenon motherboard from 2005-06, then followed by the
Zephyr motherboard 2006-2007, then the Falcon Motherboard 2007-now.
Probably later on this year we will see the Jasper Motherboard
2008-2009. Then then comes Valhalla the year four motherboard in late
2009 or mid 2010.

Oh yeah third generation Zunes are totally confirmed. Be on the look
out for Orion.

Around 2011-2012 we might expect a third generation Post 360 Xbox but
all I know is that it's being worked on.

I wonder if they have started tapping my Xbox Live account after I
started posting this stuff.

__________________________________________________ ________________________


http://www.mcvuk.com/news/29632/Micr...ware-revisions

Microsoft readying two further 360 hardware revisionsBen Parfitt
Today, 2:32pm

Sources claims that two new motherboards are on the way as Microsoft
looks to address reliability issues
With most on-the-shelf Xbox 360's currently built on Microsoft's third-
generation motherboard, the Falcon, online sources are claiming that
the platform holder has a further three revisions to its hardware in
the works.

In October MCV reported on the emergence of what will be Microsoft's
fourth 360 motherboard configuration, named Jasper, which is yet to
hit the marketplace.

However, the fifth and sixth iterations of 360 are already in
development, according to 8bitjoystick - the site which recently
claimed to have interviewed an Xbox 360 manufacturing insider.

First off, the Valhalla motherboard looks set to represent the biggest
advance in 360 engineering to date. It will allegedly include a
unified chip that incorporates both a 65nm CPU and 65nm GPU. The
reduction in heat and power consumption will mean the machine will
need only one cooling system and should, in theory, be far quieter
than current machines.

Valhalla should also be significantly cheaper to produce, paving the
way for future Xbox 360 price cuts.

Another iteration of the motherboard is also said to be in
development. The Opus will reportedly not be used for newly
manufactured 360's, but will instead be utilised as a way of reusing
all the Falcon motherboards Microsoft has supposedly got stockpiled
from all the faulty Xbox 360s it has supposedly had returned.

Opus will add a 65nm CPU to these existing motherboards, allowing them
to fit into the casing for a Xenon machine, thus allowing Microsoft to
whittle down its reserves of hardware. Therefore, the only consumers
who can expect to receive an Opus are those who have returned a faulty
machine to Microsoft. Unlike the Valhalla, Opus machines will not have
HDMI ports.

If you're confused (and we wouldn't blame you) here's a run down of
the existing and current Xbox 360 hardware configurations:

1st Generation: Xenon (2005-2006, launch machines)
90nm CPU and 90nm GPU, heatsink has since been modified, no HDMI

2nd Generation: Zephyr (2006-2007)
HDMI ports introduced on some machines, heatsinks revised

3rd Generation: Falcon (2007-present)
65nm CPU and 90nm GPU, includes HDMI

4th Generation: Jasper (TBC, expected this year)
65nm CPU and 65nm GPU, includes HDMI

5th Generation: Opus (TBC)
65nm CPU and 65nm GPU, no HDMI, further heatsink revision,
reconditioned Falcon but in a Xenon casing

6th Generation: Valhalla (TBC)
Combined 65nm CPU and 65nm GPU, single heatsink, includes HDMI

If you're in the market for a new Xbox 360 and are keen to get your
hands on one of the newer Falcon machines, the easy way to know what
you're getting without opening the box is to check the box's barcode.
Amongst all the information on there is the machine's power usage - if
it says 203w it's a Zephyr or Xenon machine. If, however, it says
175w, it's a Falcon, as those machines use less power.

There's also a school out there who are very in particular about which
DVD drive they want in their new machines. If you want to join these
fussy legions, this web site will tell you how to identify the make of
a 360 DV drive, and this web site will help you find a particular one.
However, be warned - opinion on which drive is best is very much
divided, though the BenQ's do seem to be the favourite.

__________________________________________________ ________________________

http://opa-ages.com/forums/index.php...dpost&p=100158

"Ok, I did some searching. The article contains some errors."

Jasper : 65 nm CPU + 65 nm GPU. Summer 2008
Valhalla : 45 nm CPU+GPU ASIC. Summer 2009. Likely final X360 chipset
revision before the arrival of Xbox 3.

AirRaid writes:
Now they are also in the very early stages of designing the fourth
generation Xbox 360 called Valhalla. Think Technoviking cool, we are
your overlords.

Most fanboyish post ever?

-Miles

--
In New York, most people don't have cars, so if you want to kill a person, you
have to take the subway to their house. And sometimes on the way, the train
is delayed and you get impatient, so you have to kill someone on the subway.
[George Carlin]

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:46:40 -0800 (PST), AirRaid
wrote:


1st Generation: Xenon (2005-2006, launch machines)
90nm CPU and 90nm GPU, heatsink has since been modified, no HDMI

2nd Generation: Zephyr (2006-2007)
HDMI ports introduced on some machines, heatsinks revised

3rd Generation: Falcon (2007-present)
65nm CPU and 90nm GPU, includes HDMI

4th Generation: Jasper (TBC, expected this year)
65nm CPU and 65nm GPU, includes HDMI

5th Generation: Opus (TBC)
65nm CPU and 65nm GPU, no HDMI, further heatsink revision,
reconditioned Falcon but in a Xenon casing

6th Generation: Valhalla (TBC)
Combined 65nm CPU and 65nm GPU, single heatsink, includes HDMI

If you're in the market for a new Xbox 360 and are keen to get your
hands on one of the newer Falcon machines, the easy way to know what
you're getting without opening the box is to check the box's barcode.
Amongst all the information on there is the machine's power usage - if
it says 203w it's a Zephyr or Xenon machine. If, however, it says
175w, it's a Falcon, as those machines use less power.


Now, exactly which version of these will have an integrated Blu-ray
drive???? If you do not know, you had better keep your hands firmly
clutching your wallet. It is going to happen sooner than later now
that HD-DVD is firmly dead.

Seems as if the current Xbox360 is now at a dead-end, at least as far
as Microsoft's ambitions of it being the living-room media-center
in combination with being the family games-machine. A $200 Blu-ray
peripheral does not cut the mustard, with price of a complete PS3 now
at $399. And it will be $200, as it requires serious internal
programmable smarts to track the evolving Blu-ray standard. The
internal drive in the PS3 gets these 'smarts' for free. Plus the PS3
can play future Blu-ray-capacity games, of course.

Seems as if Microsoft's penny-pinching on the Xbox360 has finally
caught up with them.

John Lewis

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips John Lewis wrote in part:
Now, exactly which version of these will have an integrated
Blu-ray drive???? If you do not know, you had better keep
your hands firmly clutching your wallet. It is going to
happen sooner than later now that HD-DVD is firmly dead.

Just because HD-DVD is dead does not mean Blu-ray will thrive.
There is competition from upscaled DVDs:

http://www.economist.com/daily/colum...ry_id=10610923

As always, the question will be "Is the difference worth it?"
Not something a techie can answer. It depends on mass market
perceptions. If Joe Sixpack can plug a [sinfully expensive] HDMI
cable into a decent DVD player and his HDTV and see a picture as
good as s/he remembers from the BigBox store Blu-ray, why would they
switch? Only if the blu-ray players become really cheap, there might
a movie or two the SFX or other visuals will be worth the premium.

Please remember, Sony PSP, Apple iPod, airline seat backs and personal
DVD players all show fewer than 400 lines. People still watch.

-- Robert

Robert Redelmeier wrote:

Just because HD-DVD is dead does not mean Blu-ray will thrive.
There is competition from upscaled DVDs:

http://www.economist.com/daily/colum...ry_id=10610923

Seen 'em. They suck worse that leaving the DVD alone and nost trying
to "upsample" them.

As always, the question will be "Is the difference worth it?"
Not something a techie can answer. It depends on mass market
perceptions. If Joe Sixpack can plug a [sinfully expensive] HDMI
cable into a decent DVD player and his HDTV and see a picture as
good as s/he remembers from the BigBox store Blu-ray, why would they
switch? Only if the blu-ray players become really cheap, there might
a movie or two the SFX or other visuals will be worth the premium.

They will become cheap, HD displays are getting cheap (you can't
hardly buy one that isn't HD any longer). People will want to watch
HD, not "upsampled DVD", on their HD displays. It's inevitable.

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips John Lewis wrote:
in combination with being the family games-machine. A $200 Blu-ray
peripheral does not cut the mustard, with price of a complete PS3 now
at $399. And it will be $200, as it requires serious internal
programmable smarts to track the evolving Blu-ray standard. The
internal drive in the PS3 gets these 'smarts' for free.

So, in theory, will the hypothetical Xbox 360 blu-ray attachment: the
standard changes are all on the playback side, and that'd be done in
software. The attachment would just be a dumb drive on a USB2 cord, same as
the current HD-DVD attachment.

--
Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/
preferred email |
is "nate" at the | "A sufficiently advanced incompetence is
posting domain | indistinguishable from malice."

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips Robert Redelmeier wrote:
Just because HD-DVD is dead does not mean Blu-ray will thrive.
There is competition from upscaled DVDs:

http://www.economist.com/daily/colum...ry_id=10610923

As always, the question will be "Is the difference worth it?"
Not something a techie can answer. It depends on mass market
perceptions. If Joe Sixpack can plug a [sinfully expensive] HDMI
cable into a decent DVD player and his HDTV and see a picture as
good as s/he remembers from the BigBox store Blu-ray, why would they
switch?

Except, of course, upscaled DVD is nowhere near as good as the blu-ray
player.

In fact, upscaled DVD players only better than regular DVD players if you
have a *cheap* HDTV which doesn't already have a good upscaler built in.
Higher-end ones have had them since HDTVs first hit the market, and often
better ones than the typical $100 upscaling DVD player.

Of course, the question is not whether it's "as good," but whether regular
DVD is "good enough." DVD had huge advantages over VHS even if you take the
picture quality when new out of the picture.

HD-DVD/Blu-ray has much better picture quality, but if regular DVD is "good
enough" then I can only see a few advantages left for HD-DVD/Bluray. One
big one is that you can fit a heck of a lot more content onto one disk, if
you're not hung up on getting HD quality content. I've yet to see anyone DO
it, but one killer app I've predicted for a while is the ability to put a
full season of older non-HD shows on one disk.

Please remember, Sony PSP, Apple iPod, airline seat backs and personal
DVD players all show fewer than 400 lines. People still watch.

Personal DVD players vary by the quality of the individual player; some DO
show a full 480p picture. The older ones which basically did broadcast NTSC
quality suck. Further, all of those are either portable or captive
applications.

--
Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/
preferred email |
is "nate" at the | "A sufficiently advanced incompetence is
posting domain | indistinguishable from malice."

In article ,
lid says...
Robert Redelmeier wrote:

Just because HD-DVD is dead does not mean Blu-ray will thrive.
There is competition from upscaled DVDs:

http://www.economist.com/daily/colum...ry_id=10610923

Seen 'em. They suck worse that leaving the DVD alone and nost trying
to "upsample" them.

As always, the question will be "Is the difference worth it?"
Not something a techie can answer. It depends on mass market
perceptions. If Joe Sixpack can plug a [sinfully expensive] HDMI
cable into a decent DVD player and his HDTV and see a picture as
good as s/he remembers from the BigBox store Blu-ray, why would they
switch? Only if the blu-ray players become really cheap, there might
a movie or two the SFX or other visuals will be worth the premium.

They will become cheap, HD displays are getting cheap (you can't
hardly buy one that isn't HD any longer).

Depends on what you mean by "HD". Full 1080i isn't common under 42"
(just went through that - ended up with a 42" plasma). ...not that
there is much 1080i content.

People will want to watch
HD, not "upsampled DVD", on their HD displays. It's inevitable.

The "good enough" comments were right on. VHS was "good enough".
I'm not convinced people will pay big bux for BluRay. I don't think
I will, at least a large premium.

--
Keith

On Feb 19, 11:48 am, chrisv wrote:
Robert Redelmeier wrote:
Just because HD-DVD is dead does not mean Blu-ray will thrive.
There is competition from upscaled DVDs:

http://www.economist.com/daily/colum...story.cfm?stor...

Seen 'em. They suck worse that leaving the DVD alone and nost trying
to "upsample" them.

As always, the question will be "Is the difference worth it?"
Not something a techie can answer. It depends on mass market
perceptions. If Joe Sixpack can plug a [sinfully expensive] HDMI
cable into a decent DVD player and his HDTV and see a picture as
good as s/he remembers from the BigBox store Blu-ray, why would they
switch? Only if the blu-ray players become really cheap, there might
a movie or two the SFX or other visuals will be worth the premium.

They will become cheap, HD displays are getting cheap (you can't
hardly buy one that isn't HD any longer). People will want to watch
HD, not "upsampled DVD", on their HD displays. It's inevitable.

I'm with Robert on this one. The increase in quality with my
upconverting
Phillips DVD player is most impressive! Given that there's no
broadcast
standard (yet) for 1080p because of the bandwidth demands, I happily
purchased a 720p set. I'm not a big gamer so none of my video sources
even support 1080p. Watching A&E HD is simply marvelous at 720p.
Perhaps a few years down the line I'll find it worthwhile to go with
1080p
but I don't want to have to replace my movie collection with yet
another
format just now. I'll wait until the prices on plasmas come down or
maybe OEDs will live up to their hype. Who knows?
I even went with component video cables since I couldn't see a
significant
improvement with HDMI. Old eyes? Just cheap? ;-)
But perhaps I'm not the only one who doesn't want to pay $140 for a 6'
audio/video cable...
YMMV

In article 771afeb0-1b6d-4e99-836c-f6f3abd9d012@
28g2000hsw.googlegroups.com, says...
On Feb 19, 11:48 am, chrisv wrote:
Robert Redelmeier wrote:
Just because HD-DVD is dead does not mean Blu-ray will thrive.
There is competition from upscaled DVDs:

http://www.economist.com/daily/colum...story.cfm?stor...

Seen 'em. They suck worse that leaving the DVD alone and nost trying
to "upsample" them.

As always, the question will be "Is the difference worth it?"
Not something a techie can answer. It depends on mass market
perceptions. If Joe Sixpack can plug a [sinfully expensive] HDMI
cable into a decent DVD player and his HDTV and see a picture as
good as s/he remembers from the BigBox store Blu-ray, why would they
switch? Only if the blu-ray players become really cheap, there might
a movie or two the SFX or other visuals will be worth the premium.

They will become cheap, HD displays are getting cheap (you can't
hardly buy one that isn't HD any longer). People will want to watch
HD, not "upsampled DVD", on their HD displays. It's inevitable.

I'm with Robert on this one. The increase in quality with my
upconverting
Phillips DVD player is most impressive! Given that there's no
broadcast
standard (yet) for 1080p because of the bandwidth demands, I happily
purchased a 720p set. I'm not a big gamer so none of my video sources
even support 1080p. Watching A&E HD is simply marvelous at 720p.

I went with 1080p because at 42" there wasn't a lot of difference in
price. The 42" plasma TV we bought (though it was on sale) was less
than $100 more than the "same" TV in 720p. I considered the $100 as
cheap obsolescence insurance.

Perhaps a few years down the line I'll find it worthwhile to go with
1080p
but I don't want to have to replace my movie collection with yet
another

I didn't want to replace the hardware either.

format just now. I'll wait until the prices on plasmas come down or
maybe OEDs will live up to their hype. Who knows?

Plasmas have come down a *lot*. When I bought (November) the sweet
spot seemed to be about 42". They with up rapidly from there.

I even went with component video cables since I couldn't see a
significant
improvement with HDMI. Old eyes? Just cheap? ;-)

It took me a while to get HDMI working. The stupid cable company...
Grrr. Cables are cheap. So cheap I have mine wired up with
everything from composite to HDMI. ;-)

But perhaps I'm not the only one who doesn't want to pay $140 for a 6'
audio/video cable...

How about $6? It's a damned cable, not an investment!

--
Keith