Dead computer?

Computer in question had a problem when it last ran... Computer froze and
the only way they could shut it down was to unplug it. When they tried to
power it up again, nothing would happen. They took it to the person who
built it who proclaims, it's fried. She got it back from him (minus the
power supply because he says that's what fried). I said I would look at
it. So I put in a power supply. The cpu fan runs but nothing else on
power up (power light on case lights up). In order to shut it down, you
have to either unplug the power supply or turn the power supply off (it has
a switch). My question is.... did this thing fry MY power supply now (the
power supply fan runs)? Or, is there another motherboard problem that is
causing nothing else to power up (CD-Rom, hard drive, floppy) nothing
initializes. Could that be because the motherboard is dead and the BIOS is
not going through post? No beeps, nothing when you try to power up. My
knowledge of the system is limited, it is a homebuilt with a Pentium II
CPU. Motherboard has 3 ISA slots, 4 PCI Slots and 1 AGP Slot. No markings
on the motherboard, it has an Intel controller. I know I'm not offering
much info here, but any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Much thanks.

Patty

Sometime on, or about Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:59:48 -0500, Patty wrote:

Computer in question had a problem when it last ran... Computer froze and
the only way they could shut it down was to unplug it. When they tried to
power it up again, nothing would happen. They took it to the person who
built it who proclaims, it's fried. She got it back from him (minus the
power supply because he says that's what fried). I said I would look at
it. So I put in a power supply. The cpu fan runs but nothing else on
power up (power light on case lights up). In order to shut it down, you
have to either unplug the power supply or turn the power supply off (it has
a switch). My question is.... did this thing fry MY power supply now (the
power supply fan runs)? Or, is there another motherboard problem that is
causing nothing else to power up (CD-Rom, hard drive, floppy) nothing
initializes. Could that be because the motherboard is dead and the BIOS is
not going through post? No beeps, nothing when you try to power up. My
knowledge of the system is limited, it is a homebuilt with a Pentium II
CPU. Motherboard has 3 ISA slots, 4 PCI Slots and 1 AGP Slot. No markings
on the motherboard, it has an Intel controller. I know I'm not offering
much info here, but any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Much thanks.

Patty

I had the same problem the other week and found out it was a fried CPU. If
absolutely nothing happens when you start the system up (besides the fans)
then suspect the CPU, RAM, motherboard or power supply. I think you've
eliminated the power supply as the culprit. The only way I know is to start
swapping the RAM and CPU, etc. until you narrow down the problem.

Sam
--
To mail me, please get rid of the BS first

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 13:34:03 -0800, Sam wrote:

I had the same problem the other week and found out it was a fried CPU. If
absolutely nothing happens when you start the system up (besides the fans)
then suspect the CPU, RAM, motherboard or power supply. I think you've
eliminated the power supply as the culprit. The only way I know is to start
swapping the RAM and CPU, etc. until you narrow down the problem.

Sam

Since I don't have any parts for a system like this (just helping out a
friend) I don't have anything to swap. I did try reseating the RAM, let me
tell you, this must be the cheapest motherboard ever made, I had a heck of
a time getting the RAM to seat back in. Normally you push them in the slot
and they snap lock. Not with these, they would not lock in and kept
falling out. Finally, after much wiggling and pushing I got them to seat.
I suspect there's many problems with this system. I'm going to suggest we
just try to salvage what we can and put together a different system for
her. Was just scrounging all my old parts, but don't have enough SIMMs to
put anything together (have motherboard, CPU from an old 200Mhz system). I
must explain here... computer is for a friend's stepmom who only uses it to
balance her checkbook, play Reversi, and check email through AOL. She
doesn't need a supersystem. She has very limited or no funds to buy a new
computer. Anyone got some leftover EDO Simms laying around they don't need
anymore? vbg

Patty

Patty wrote:

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 13:34:03 -0800, Sam wrote:

I had the same problem the other week and found out it was a fried CPU. If
absolutely nothing happens when you start the system up (besides the fans)
then suspect the CPU, RAM, motherboard or power supply. I think you've
eliminated the power supply as the culprit. The only way I know is to start
swapping the RAM and CPU, etc. until you narrow down the problem.

Sam


Since I don't have any parts for a system like this (just helping out a
friend) I don't have anything to swap. I did try reseating the RAM, let me
tell you, this must be the cheapest motherboard ever made, I had a heck of
a time getting the RAM to seat back in. Normally you push them in the slot
and they snap lock. Not with these, they would not lock in and kept
falling out.

That is often caused by the motherboard flexing under the pressure of
trying to seat the RAM module.

Finally, after much wiggling and pushing I got them to seat.
I suspect there's many problems with this system. I'm going to suggest we
just try to salvage what we can and put together a different system for
her. Was just scrounging all my old parts, but don't have enough SIMMs to
put anything together (have motherboard, CPU from an old 200Mhz system). I
must explain here... computer is for a friend's stepmom who only uses it to
balance her checkbook, play Reversi, and check email through AOL. She
doesn't need a supersystem. She has very limited or no funds to buy a new
computer. Anyone got some leftover EDO Simms laying around they don't need
anymore? vbg

Patty

Patty wrote:

Computer in question had a problem when it last ran... Computer froze and
the only way they could shut it down was to unplug it. When they tried to
power it up again, nothing would happen. They took it to the person who
built it who proclaims, it's fried. She got it back from him (minus the
power supply because he says that's what fried). I said I would look at
it. So I put in a power supply. The cpu fan runs but nothing else on
power up (power light on case lights up). In order to shut it down, you
have to either unplug the power supply or turn the power supply off (it has
a switch). My question is.... did this thing fry MY power supply now (the
power supply fan runs)? Or, is there another motherboard problem that is
causing nothing else to power up (CD-Rom, hard drive, floppy) nothing
initializes. Could that be because the motherboard is dead and the BIOS is
not going through post? No beeps, nothing when you try to power up. My
knowledge of the system is limited, it is a homebuilt with a Pentium II
CPU. Motherboard has 3 ISA slots, 4 PCI Slots and 1 AGP Slot. No markings
on the motherboard, it has an Intel controller. I know I'm not offering
much info here, but any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Much thanks.

Patty

Just off hand I'd say either the processor is dead (and shorted) or the
motherboard is and that's killing the 5 or 3.3 volt rails so that nothing
electronic runs (but 12 volt may be up, or partially up, to spin the CPU
and PSU fans).

I'd first remove all PCI cards, if any, to see if one of them is the
problem (unlikely, unfortunately). Try the hard drive on the PSU by itself
to see if it spins up. Same with the CDROM. If they spin up, I.E. not dead,
then it's either the CPU or motherboard.

Pull the CPU and see if the hard drive/CDROM/floppy light up. It obviously
won't boot but if they light then it's the CPU that's dead. If they still
don't then it's likely the motherboard.

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 17:13:48 -0600, David Maynard wrote:
Just off hand I'd say either the processor is dead (and shorted) or the
motherboard is and that's killing the 5 or 3.3 volt rails so that nothing
electronic runs (but 12 volt may be up, or partially up, to spin the CPU
and PSU fans).

I'd first remove all PCI cards, if any, to see if one of them is the
problem (unlikely, unfortunately). Try the hard drive on the PSU by itself
to see if it spins up. Same with the CDROM. If they spin up, I.E. not dead,
then it's either the CPU or motherboard.

Pull the CPU and see if the hard drive/CDROM/floppy light up. It obviously
won't boot but if they light then it's the CPU that's dead. If they still
don't then it's likely the motherboard.

Thanks for the suggestions, but as far as I'm concerned since the
motherboard and CPU are so old (I figure 5-6 years) I'm not sure either
would be easily replaceable even if I found out which it was that was
failing. Turns out it's a Gigabyte GA686LX4 motherboard with a Pentium II
266 Mhz CPU. 32 MB RAM. As I said, she doesn't need much computer to do
what she's doing. I'm figuring I've got an old 200 Mhz AT board and CPU in
a case, just need a couple SIMMs, which I may be able to come with up since
where I work has a number of old AT systems just sitting around unused. I
figure with what we can come up with we can probably build her a similar
system as what she had for no cost to her at all.

Patty

Doors don't close. So they kept replacing doors. No one
noticed the foundation had collapsed. Does this sounds like
your computer problem?

Start at step one. We must first verify the foundation.
This requires an inexpensive and ubiquitous 3.5 digit
multimeter. No cheaper way around this solution. We must
determine which of three power supply system components is
dead OR determine the entire 'foundation' (power supply
system) is working. Again, we need that meter so that this is
verification is accomplished in but a few minutes (reading how
to do it takes many time longer than the actual measuring
task).

Information in these previous posts report where to measure
and what numbers to expect. In short, measure voltages on the
red, yellow, orange, and purple wires. Those voltages must be
within upper 3/4 limits of table. Purple wire voltage must be
there always - power on or off (which is why you must always
unplug a computer from wall before changing it). When
computer powers on, voltages then appear on red, yellow, and
orange wires - again in the upper 3/4 limits of those specs.

Any power supply can spin fans and hard disk, light LEDs,
and still be 100% defective. Without numbers, no one can say
whether power supply is good or bad. Previous discussion that
provides details on where to measure, what those limits are
(you must measure in upper 3/4 of those limits), and define
what is a good power supply:
"Computer doesnt start at all" in alt.comp.hardware on 10
Jan 2004 at
http://tinyurl.com/2t69q and
"I think my power supply is dead" in alt.comp.hardware on 5
Feb 2004 at
http://www.tinyurl.com/2musa

Even if you don't understand what those numbers report,
those numbers provide powerful facts so that others (with more
knowledge) can immediately provide help. Currently you
provide only enough facts to wildly speculate.

Once we have established the power supply system as
functional, only then can we move on to other suspects. Power
supply system (which is more than just a power supply) is the
foundation. First we must confirm the foundation is intact
before ever considering any other possible problem.

Patty wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions, but as far as I'm concerned since the
motherboard and CPU are so old (I figure 5-6 years) I'm not sure
either would be easily replaceable even if I found out which it
was that was failing. Turns out it's a Gigabyte GA686LX4
motherboard with a Pentium II 266 Mhz CPU. 32 MB RAM. As I said,
she doesn't need much computer to do what she's doing. I'm
figuring I've got an old 200 Mhz AT board and CPU in a case, just
need a couple SIMMs, which I may be able to come with up since
where I work has a number of old AT systems just sitting around
unused. I figure with what we can come up with we can probably
build her a similar system as what she had for no cost to her at
all.

Patty

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 03:55:53 -0500, w_tom wrote:

Doors don't close. So they kept replacing doors. No one
noticed the foundation had collapsed. Does this sounds like
your computer problem?

Start at step one. We must first verify the foundation.
This requires an inexpensive and ubiquitous 3.5 digit
multimeter. No cheaper way around this solution. We must
determine which of three power supply system components is
dead OR determine the entire 'foundation' (power supply
system) is working. Again, we need that meter so that this is
verification is accomplished in but a few minutes (reading how
to do it takes many time longer than the actual measuring
task).

Information in these previous posts report where to measure
and what numbers to expect. In short, measure voltages on the
red, yellow, orange, and purple wires. Those voltages must be
within upper 3/4 limits of table. Purple wire voltage must be
there always - power on or off (which is why you must always
unplug a computer from wall before changing it). When
computer powers on, voltages then appear on red, yellow, and
orange wires - again in the upper 3/4 limits of those specs.

Any power supply can spin fans and hard disk, light LEDs,
and still be 100% defective. Without numbers, no one can say
whether power supply is good or bad. Previous discussion that
provides details on where to measure, what those limits are
(you must measure in upper 3/4 of those limits), and define
what is a good power supply:
"Computer doesnt start at all" in alt.comp.hardware on 10
Jan 2004 at
http://tinyurl.com/2t69q and
"I think my power supply is dead" in alt.comp.hardware on 5
Feb 2004 at
http://www.tinyurl.com/2musa

Even if you don't understand what those numbers report,
those numbers provide powerful facts so that others (with more
knowledge) can immediately provide help. Currently you
provide only enough facts to wildly speculate.

Once we have established the power supply system as
functional, only then can we move on to other suspects. Power
supply system (which is more than just a power supply) is the
foundation. First we must confirm the foundation is intact
before ever considering any other possible problem.


While that's true, and if I hadn't already put in a different power supply
(I replaced the one that was supposedly fried), I would buy the equipment
to test it. But, what are the odds that two different power supplies would
be bad? Two different power supplies, same result. Does that make it a
power supply problem?

Patty

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 03:55:53 -0500, w_tom wrote:

Doors don't close. So they kept replacing doors. No one
noticed the foundation had collapsed. Does this sounds like
your computer problem?

Start at step one. We must first verify the foundation.
This requires an inexpensive and ubiquitous 3.5 digit
multimeter. No cheaper way around this solution. We must
determine which of three power supply system components is
dead OR determine the entire 'foundation' (power supply
system) is working. Again, we need that meter so that this is
verification is accomplished in but a few minutes (reading how
to do it takes many time longer than the actual measuring
task).

Information in these previous posts report where to measure
and what numbers to expect. In short, measure voltages on the
red, yellow, orange, and purple wires. Those voltages must be
within upper 3/4 limits of table. Purple wire voltage must be
there always - power on or off (which is why you must always
unplug a computer from wall before changing it). When
computer powers on, voltages then appear on red, yellow, and
orange wires - again in the upper 3/4 limits of those specs.

Any power supply can spin fans and hard disk, light LEDs,
and still be 100% defective. Without numbers, no one can say
whether power supply is good or bad. Previous discussion that
provides details on where to measure, what those limits are
(you must measure in upper 3/4 of those limits), and define
what is a good power supply:
"Computer doesnt start at all" in alt.comp.hardware on 10
Jan 2004 at
http://tinyurl.com/2t69q and
"I think my power supply is dead" in alt.comp.hardware on 5
Feb 2004 at
http://www.tinyurl.com/2musa

Even if you don't understand what those numbers report,
those numbers provide powerful facts so that others (with more
knowledge) can immediately provide help. Currently you
provide only enough facts to wildly speculate.

Once we have established the power supply system as
functional, only then can we move on to other suspects. Power
supply system (which is more than just a power supply) is the
foundation. First we must confirm the foundation is intact
before ever considering any other possible problem.

I have a multimeter, but I don't know what kind it is. I know it's a
Digital Multimeter, I know it does DC voltage measurement, DC 10 Amp
measurement as well as AC voltage measurement. I don't know much about
this and I'm not sure how to use it or set it to use it. The book is not
helpful to my "non-electrical knowledge" brain. ;o) All I know is it's a
GB Instruments GDT-11 Digital Multimeter. Maybe I'll do a Google search
and see if I can find some info on it to try to understand more how to use
it and how it works and if I can use it to check the power supply, which I
am confident that works as it should.

Patty

Power on digital multimeter. Turn selector switch to DC volts -
preferably the 20 volt range. Touch leads to points. Read voltage
number from display. When done, turn meter power off.

Patty wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 03:55:53 -0500, w_tom wrote:
I have a multimeter, but I don't know what kind it is. I know it's a
Digital Multimeter, I know it does DC voltage measurement, DC 10 Amp
measurement as well as AC voltage measurement. I don't know much
about
this and I'm not sure how to use it or set it to use it. The book is
not
helpful to my "non-electrical knowledge" brain. ;o) All I know is
it's a
GB Instruments GDT-11 Digital Multimeter. Maybe I'll do a Google
search
and see if I can find some info on it to try to understand more how
to use
it and how it works and if I can use it to check the power supply,
which I
am confident that works as it should.

Patty