Power Surge

You might want to visit http://www.tomshardware.com/ and search for his
reviews on several power supplies. Antec, Enermax, and Zalman were all
good units. I tend towards the Antec PSUs (because they have more
reserve power over their rated power). If you get Antec's stealth
cases, like the Sonata, they use a modified PSU where the
thermistor-controlled rear fan is still there but the always-on
no-control bottom intake fan is removed (but the intake vent holes are
larger). The reduction of the always-on no-control fan makes the unit
quieter. I've heard the Zalmans are quiet, starting at 20 db at normal
temperatures and going up to 30 dB at high temperatures (which is still
a lot quieter than a lot of the 50 dB fans out there).

When I look at the testing rig that Tom setup to check power supplies, I
start to salivate and ponder what it would take to make one myself.
Unfortunately, he never publishes how he built his custom test gear. It
sure is a hell of a lot better test rig than those simple plug-in
testers that provide a minimal load. I still wonder what he uses to
measure such low sound levels. The sound meters that I can find at
retail stores or a Google search only go down to 30 dB and are pricey.

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The black phone line block sound like an old protector that
was obsoleted by one that looks like this:
http://www.inwap.com/inwap/chez/Phoneline.jpg
This protector has long since been obsoleted by the
semiconductor protectors currently installed. Codes have
since changed. Phone company wire ends in a box, often
labeled NID, that is typically only 12 inches from where your
wire enters the house and outside building so that telco can
access this box. That NID would contain a surge protector, a
dedicated wire to earth ground, and would like interface boxes
in:
http://www.alarmsuperstore.com/bw/bw%20connectors.htm

Notice ground wire from bottom of each box. Consider having
the phone company upgrade your phone service to current
standards of the past decade plus.

With cable and satellite dish connected to (what sounds
like) a buried plated on other side of house, then they have
set house up for potential surge damage (a function also of
underlying geology). Since AC electric is not earthed to same
single point as cables, then surges have but another path to
damage household appliances.

Concept was demonstrated by Boy Scouts camping near trees.
Tree was struck by lightning. All boys sleeping sideways to
tree were unaffected. But two boys sleeping pointed to the
tree became victims. Electricity flowed down to earth on
tree. Then entered boy's feet, traveled through body, and
exited via head. Those two Boy Scouts had two earth grounds -
one at foot and other at head. Therefore they suffered
electrical shocks because body completed an electrical
circuit.

Your house can suffer same. Surge enters on AC electric
ground. Travels destructively through household appliances.
Then exits on cable or satellite dish ground. Appliances
connected to satellite dish and cable being at greatest risk
just like boys sleeping pointed towards tree.

One solution - a halo ground that encircles building and
connects to all earth grounds. Halo ground would be
equivalent to boys sleeping sideways to tree. Demonstrated in
this figu
http://www.cinergy.com/surge/ttip08.htm

Ground wire to water pipe was once considered earth ground.
Today that wire is insufficient; simply to remove electricity
from pipes for human safety. Post 1990 code now calls for a
second earth ground using a dedicated ground rod (or
equivalent). This typically becomes the single point ground
to which all other utilities are earthed.

Since your water pipe ground wire is probably the only earth
ground connection, then wire should terminate with no pipe
joints between where wire connects and where pipe contacts
earth. Especially important - water meter is not between that
ground wire connection and earth.

Should you decide to have any electrical work done
(including installing a 'whole house' protector), then have
that earth ground rod installed with a short connection to
breaker box. Safety ground must exist to cold water pipe as
you have observed. But post 1990 code calls for another
dedicated earth ground. Surge protection requires this earth
ground be connected by less than 10 foot wire without sharp
bends, etc. Wire from breaker box to earth ground rod should
also not be bundled with other wires.

These requirement are beyond what code demands because that
earth ground wire is also doing surge protection. IOW if
ground wire to GEC can be run more direct and shorter through
cinder block wall (rather than up through wood joists and back
down to earth), then do so - only to make surge protection
more effective and to keep that ground wire away from other
non-earthing wires.

Only after this central earth ground is established should
phone company upgrade their interface and earth to that same
ground rod. Your home currently does not (sound like it) have
the current technology protectors that provide effective surge
protection.

Of course, how frequent are lightning strikes in your
neighborhood. Just another consideration when evaluating what
need be accomplished.

Other standards have been upgraded since your electric was
installed. For example, a ground wire must bypass water
meter. Some jurisdictions require that gas line be connected
to breaker box safety ground (check with gas company). Jumper
between hot and cold water pipes at water heater may be
required. But these are upgrades only required for human
safety reasons.

However a major problem that may now be expensive to fix are
those cable and satellite dish wires entering on far side of
building and not to the important single point earth ground.

One additional check. The pole with transformer that serves
your home- is that pole's earth ground intact? Just another
important earth ground for your household surge protection
system - that must exist (and for free).


David LeBrun wrote:
I just looked around at the stuff in the basement.

There is a thick heavy guage wire running from the main AC switch to
the water main about 6' away. This is the house ground...correct? I
tried to see what was behind the meter looking for a "extender ring"
but since the meter is round I don't know whats part of the actual
meter and whats not.

The telephone box (where all the separate jacks are connected) has 3
wires...2 are for the signal and the third I assume is the ground (old
wiring which does not use all 4 signal wires). The "plate" that its
all hooked up on has a big black knob in the center of it. Don't have
the faintest what it is but it looks ancient...maybe a fuse? The
ground wire (or what ever it is) is also ancient looking and after
digging through the rafters I found it isn't connected to anything.
If this is supposed to be a ground line...could I just hook it up the
AC ground at the water main (which is very close)?

As for the cable...it comes in from the pole at the back of the
property to a plate on the side of the house then continues into the
house (on a separate run of coax). This plate has a wire running into
the ground but I don't know how deep. I also ran a copper ground wire
from the satellite dish to this plate.

These types of things I'm a complete newbie with. Hooking up a new
phone line or cable to another room is one thing but I don't touch the
mains box. Been zapped once and DO NOT want to experience that
sensation again!! I know its not easy without seeing but what do you
think of this setup? Improvements needed?

Hey...I had one of those Deer PSUs...it was in my first 386 and was
still kicking around until a few months ago when I trashed it because
my parts cabinet was way too full.

I forgot all about RF problems. I can't recall having any problems
with that though. I'm not sure if I have the specs for the AOpen unit
or not...but could probably find one on the net if it was actually
made by AOpen. I agree though that specs are important whether or not
they are fully understood...I would say that most don't even
understand the sticker usually found on the shell.

Thanx for the link...I'll be sure to check it out.

Dave.

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
Its about what is not in the $30 power supply. For example,
does the computer interfere with radio reception? Another
function that was not installed would be a line filter. Up
front and first provided: no long list of specifications, then
it is probably missing essential functions to increase profit;
customer be damned.

Specs have been seen for Enermax and Antec supplies. Where
are the specifications for that AOpen or, say, a Deer supply?
Specs are provided even though less than 1% of consumers
really know what specs mean. However without those specs, then
the 1% cannot identify the failures of that manufacturers
products to the other 99%.

Tom's Hardware demonstrated another problem with many
discount power supplies:
http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/0...021/index.html

But then outputs of any power supply can be shorted, power
applied, and nothing destructive happens. No fuse should even
blow. That is even what all minimally acceptable supplies
must do. There is little to nothing visible that determines a
quality supply. Secret ingredients are already in the batter;
not visible to a human eye. Above are just some examples of
how to really identify a minimally acceptable supply. But
first on that list - no specs, then no quality.

David LeBrun wrote:
Ok...about quality units...
One of my systems is using an Enermax 300W, another is Antec 350W.
Yet another is the AOpen branded unit which came in a clone
case...at
least on its second or possibly third year of use. Yet another
case
is most likely one of the bargain units and I'll probably look to
replace it by swapping in my current Enermax and getting a newer
model. I really like my Enermax unit...well built with good
quality
long cables and has been in use well over a year. This Antec unit
seems to be very good also (but its fairly new so can't compare it
much yet). Its voltages are closer to spec than the Enermax but
we're
talking
+/-0.2v or so. I like the idea of the dedicated voltage rails on
the
newer Antec units...claims that the only load required is on +12v
which would be excellent for bench-testing equipment. Its a
toss-up
between these two brands for me.

I've seen other brands advertised: KingWin, Zalman, Thermaltake to
name a few. Also see lots and lots of "no-name" units...when I
check
in at the local store I see some 400W units for $30...compared to
similar Enermax for $110 and Antec for $120. What's your brand of
choice?

When I think about what would be in a $30 unit...
- you've got the shell...that can't be avoided...maybe make it
thinner
metal but it can't be plastic because of heat...can't afford a
lawsuit
when racking in only 30 bucks per

- mobo/drive power lines...can't be avoided either...would be
useless
otherwise...could possibly get away with using thinner guage
wiring to
cut cost...defintly no gold plated connectors

- single fan w/ sleve bearing...these things are a dime a
dozen...definitely not 2 fans since it would add to cost...not
that
there's a spot to put the fan since there aren't any ventalation
holes/slats in these units

- the "guts"...after spending money on all the rest...can't spend
too
much here...however since there is no packaging or manual or spec
sheet the savings "could" be applied here

Another thing is that you never get a warranty other than the few
days
from the store if it doesn't work. I've trashed enough of these
things I could run a drive power line from my basement to the
second
floor.

Dave

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
It is a sign of the times; how propaganda manipulates
mindsets. Today, any failure must have been a surge.
Computer mysteriously turns off; must be a surge. However
surges occur typically once every eight years. Propaganda
forgot to mention that part.

That list of failed components is consistent with power
supply failure that did not include the required overvoltage
protection circuits. Circuits that were even standard 30
years ago are commonly missing on power supplies sold only on
price. However specifications for an Enermax power supply
states overvoltage protection - with numbers:
http://www.enermax.com.tw/product.htm
Fundamental difference between the power supply purchased on
price verses power supply bought on value.

Many discount power supplies cannot be bothered to cite
specifications because they are not selling to those who want
essential power supply functions. List of damaged components
is consistent with a power supply that did not have
overvoltage protection - was sold only on one spec - price.

David LeBrun wrote:
When the system came to me I was "told" it was a power surge
that
destroyed the components. I really don't know if this is the
case
and
given all that was said in this thread I would likely discount
this as
the cause. I visually inspected all the damaged components
but I
didn't see any signs except for the sound card with the popped
core.
I was looking for bulging/leaking caps,
discolored/chipped/missing
parts but could not find anything. I ran some burn-in tests
on
the
remaining parts and nothing came up as bad.

I do remember being told by the owner that one person doing
work
on
the unit flipped a switch on the PSU...however she doesn't
remember it
having the on/off switch that the current Enermax does...so I
can
only
assume the switch would be the voltage selector. Now...I have
never
operated a unit when it was not set for North American voltage
(110 or
whatever its supposed to be). Another possibility I can think
of
is
that someone did work on the board when it still had
power...full
or
standby...but even then I don't think that much damage would
occur.
I've oops'd like that a couple of times and the board simply
shut
down...although that was with an Enermax so who knows what an
el'
cheapo unit would do. I just find it really strange which
components
died and those that survived. Another thing I just realized
is
that
nothing else in her house was damaged...not even the monitor
which
was
on the same outlet/power bar...so it most likely was the PSU
and/or
human error. Anyways...the owner purchased new parts and has
her
system back (minus her data) with a better power supply.

I was kinda joking when I made that list...it wasn't meant as an
actual comparison.

I just recently set a Sonata cased system up. The PSU also only has 1
internal fan where the unmodded version has 2...for the sake of quiet
running. A nice case to use in the living room next to the TV/Stereo.
The fan is extremely quiet because it spins at low rpm...it actually
set the alarm off in the BIOS when I started working on that system.

I will definitely check Toms out...haven't been there in a while.

Dave.

"Vanguard" wrote in message
news:3pO7b.312013$Oz4.101150@rwcrnsc54...
You might want to visit http://www.tomshardware.com/ and search for
his
reviews on several power supplies. Antec, Enermax, and Zalman were
all
good units. I tend towards the Antec PSUs (because they have more
reserve power over their rated power). If you get Antec's stealth
cases, like the Sonata, they use a modified PSU where the
thermistor-controlled rear fan is still there but the always-on
no-control bottom intake fan is removed (but the intake vent holes
are
larger). The reduction of the always-on no-control fan makes the
unit
quieter. I've heard the Zalmans are quiet, starting at 20 db at
normal
temperatures and going up to 30 dB at high temperatures (which is
still
a lot quieter than a lot of the 50 dB fans out there).

When I look at the testing rig that Tom setup to check power
supplies, I
start to salivate and ponder what it would take to make one myself.
Unfortunately, he never publishes how he built his custom test gear.
It
sure is a hell of a lot better test rig than those simple plug-in
testers that provide a minimal load. I still wonder what he uses to
measure such low sound levels. The sound meters that I can find at
retail stores or a Google search only go down to 30 dB and are
pricey.

--
__________________________________________________ __________
** Share with others. Post replies in the newsgroup.
** If present, remove all "-nix" from my email address.
__________________________________________________ __________