advice on replacement computer

I am currently using a Dell Dimension 8400 P4 Windows XP computer with
1GB RAM, two monitors, and 2 500G disks in RAID mirroring
configuration (due to some previous bad experiences with disk drives).

It is used for the ordinary mail and web and WORD stuff, plus
occasional photo editing and small databases. There are no games more
advanced than Free Cell.

My major reason for replacing it is that I need more disk space (lots
of photos). I have tried larger disks but the machine cannot take
them; it looks like the "not enough address bits" issue.

The fading-away of XP is also a consideration.

The Dell web site has left me knowing only slightly more than when I
started. It seems that I need a "mini-tower" box because none of the
others hold more than one drive. I have been unable to get a clear
picture of which lines use that box; some of the XPS systems do, and
maybe some Inspiron, and maybe some things in the business side, but
in each case some don't.

Two drives are a requirement; I don't want to run out of disk again
for a while.

I have not found any mention of RAID; maybe Dell doesn't do that
anymore?

I have not found where it tells me whether any of the systems will run
two monitors without an add-on card. If I need an add-on card, which
is the quietest that will do the job?

Another wish is that the system is not noisier than my current
machine.

Additional considerations include reasonable processing "power" for
future-proofing without excessive cost; I had been guessing an i5
maybe.

I long ago learned that more memory is good; how much is enough for
the next several years?

I am assuming that Windows 7 Pro is the right OS.

So, what can you suggest, or what have I forgotten to mention?

Bob S

On Monday, June 30, 2014 8:44:45 PM UTC-4, Bob S wrote:
I am currently using a Dell Dimension 8400 P4 Windows XP computer with

1GB RAM, two monitors, and 2 500G disks in RAID mirroring

configuration (due to some previous bad experiences with disk drives).



It is used for the ordinary mail and web and WORD stuff, plus

occasional photo editing and small databases. There are no games more

advanced than Free Cell.



My major reason for replacing it is that I need more disk space (lots

of photos). I have tried larger disks but the machine cannot take

them; it looks like the "not enough address bits" issue.



The fading-away of XP is also a consideration.



The Dell web site has left me knowing only slightly more than when I

started. It seems that I need a "mini-tower" box because none of the

others hold more than one drive. I have been unable to get a clear

picture of which lines use that box; some of the XPS systems do, and

maybe some Inspiron, and maybe some things in the business side, but

in each case some don't.



Two drives are a requirement; I don't want to run out of disk again

for a while.



I have not found any mention of RAID; maybe Dell doesn't do that

anymore?



I have not found where it tells me whether any of the systems will run

two monitors without an add-on card. If I need an add-on card, which

is the quietest that will do the job?



Another wish is that the system is not noisier than my current

machine.



Additional considerations include reasonable processing "power" for

future-proofing without excessive cost; I had been guessing an i5

maybe.



I long ago learned that more memory is good; how much is enough for

the next several years?



I am assuming that Windows 7 Pro is the right OS.



So, what can you suggest, or what have I forgotten to mention?



Bob S

Windows 7 is one choice. But Windows 8.1 is the other, only if you install ClassicShell to get back a full-time Start button to replace the stupid tiles. Either way, the added features of a Pro version compared to a Home version are useful primarily in a corporate setting.

The i5 is a decent middle-of-the-road processor useful for the kinds of things you do. I have numerous customers running i5 systems, desktop and laptop, and they are generally pleased with the computers. If the price is right, a low-end Xeon is OK, too. I am running one in this old system and it runs cool (no more than 110 degrees F), fast and quiet. Sold a few Xeon systems to folks, too.

You might as well get at least 8GB of memory, which implies 64-bit Windows 7. Windows 8 is always 64 bits.

The Optiplex line remains the high quality business class Dell product. Vostros and Inspirons are consumer products that sacrifice some in quality of chassis and overall workmanship, but they remain pretty decent from what I have seen. The Dell Precision computers are simply way over-priced. You can get mini- or mid-tower systems in all of them. They 8400 can be pretty noisy, so most any of these will be quieter, due to lower power consumption by the CPUs, hence less need for full-blast cooling... Ben Myers

On Monday, June 30, 2014 8:56:56 PM UTC-4, Ben Myers wrote:
On Monday, June 30, 2014 8:44:45 PM UTC-4, Bob S wrote:

I am currently using a Dell Dimension 8400 P4 Windows XP computer with



1GB RAM, two monitors, and 2 500G disks in RAID mirroring



configuration (due to some previous bad experiences with disk drives).







It is used for the ordinary mail and web and WORD stuff, plus



occasional photo editing and small databases. There are no games more



advanced than Free Cell.







My major reason for replacing it is that I need more disk space (lots



of photos). I have tried larger disks but the machine cannot take



them; it looks like the "not enough address bits" issue.







The fading-away of XP is also a consideration.







The Dell web site has left me knowing only slightly more than when I



started. It seems that I need a "mini-tower" box because none of the



others hold more than one drive. I have been unable to get a clear



picture of which lines use that box; some of the XPS systems do, and



maybe some Inspiron, and maybe some things in the business side, but



in each case some don't.







Two drives are a requirement; I don't want to run out of disk again



for a while.







I have not found any mention of RAID; maybe Dell doesn't do that



anymore?







I have not found where it tells me whether any of the systems will run



two monitors without an add-on card. If I need an add-on card, which



is the quietest that will do the job?







Another wish is that the system is not noisier than my current



machine.







Additional considerations include reasonable processing "power" for



future-proofing without excessive cost; I had been guessing an i5



maybe.







I long ago learned that more memory is good; how much is enough for



the next several years?







I am assuming that Windows 7 Pro is the right OS.







So, what can you suggest, or what have I forgotten to mention?







Bob S



Windows 7 is one choice. But Windows 8.1 is the other, only if you install ClassicShell to get back a full-time Start button to replace the stupid tiles. Either way, the added features of a Pro version compared to a Home version are useful primarily in a corporate setting.



The i5 is a decent middle-of-the-road processor useful for the kinds of things you do. I have numerous customers running i5 systems, desktop and laptop, and they are generally pleased with the computers. If the price is right, a low-end Xeon is OK, too. I am running one in this old system and it runs cool (no more than 110 degrees F), fast and quiet. Sold a few Xeon systems to folks, too.



You might as well get at least 8GB of memory, which implies 64-bit Windows 7. Windows 8 is always 64 bits.



The Optiplex line remains the high quality business class Dell product. Vostros and Inspirons are consumer products that sacrifice some in quality of chassis and overall workmanship, but they remain pretty decent from what I have seen. The Dell Precision computers are simply way over-priced. You can get mini- or mid-tower systems in all of them. They 8400 can be pretty noisy, so most any of these will be quieter, due to lower power consumption by the CPUs, hence less need for full-blast cooling... Ben Myers

The XPS systems are a lot like Precision systems. They can be a little over-priced, as one pays a lot for fancy plastic... Ben

On Monday, June 30, 2014 7:44:45 PM UTC-5, Bob S wrote:
I am currently using a Dell Dimension 8400 P4 Windows XP computer with

1GB RAM, two monitors, and 2 500G disks in RAID mirroring

configuration (due to some previous bad experiences with disk drives).

Just to add...an IT friend of mine gave me an 8400 with 3Gb RAM and I installed Windows 7 32-bit...it runs extremely well for a 10 yr old system!

On Mon, 30 Jun 2014 17:56:56 -0700 (PDT), Ben Myers wrote:

On Monday, June 30, 2014 8:44:45 PM UTC-4, Bob S wrote:
I am currently using a Dell Dimension 8400 P4 Windows XP computer with

1GB RAM, two monitors, and 2 500G disks in RAID mirroring

configuration (due to some previous bad experiences with disk drives).



It is used for the ordinary mail and web and WORD stuff, plus

occasional photo editing and small databases. There are no games more

advanced than Free Cell.



My major reason for replacing it is that I need more disk space (lots

of photos). I have tried larger disks but the machine cannot take

them; it looks like the "not enough address bits" issue.



The fading-away of XP is also a consideration.



The Dell web site has left me knowing only slightly more than when I

started. It seems that I need a "mini-tower" box because none of the

others hold more than one drive. I have been unable to get a clear

picture of which lines use that box; some of the XPS systems do, and

maybe some Inspiron, and maybe some things in the business side, but

in each case some don't.



Two drives are a requirement; I don't want to run out of disk again

for a while.



I have not found any mention of RAID; maybe Dell doesn't do that

anymore?



I have not found where it tells me whether any of the systems will run

two monitors without an add-on card. If I need an add-on card, which

is the quietest that will do the job?



Another wish is that the system is not noisier than my current

machine.



Additional considerations include reasonable processing "power" for

future-proofing without excessive cost; I had been guessing an i5

maybe.



I long ago learned that more memory is good; how much is enough for

the next several years?



I am assuming that Windows 7 Pro is the right OS.



So, what can you suggest, or what have I forgotten to mention?



Bob S

Windows 7 is one choice. But Windows 8.1 is the other, only if you install ClassicShell to get back a full-time Start button to replace the stupid tiles. Either way, the added features of a Pro version compared to a Home version are useful primarily in a corporate setting.

The i5 is a decent middle-of-the-road processor useful for the kinds of things you do. I have numerous customers running i5 systems, desktop and laptop, and they are generally pleased with the computers. If the price is right, a low-end Xeon is OK, too. I am running one in this old system and it runs cool (no more than 110 degrees F), fast and quiet. Sold a few Xeon systems to folks, too.

You might as well get at least 8GB of memory, which implies 64-bit Windows 7. Windows 8 is always 64 bits.

The Optiplex line remains the high quality business class Dell product. Vostros and Inspirons are consumer products that sacrifice some in quality of chassis and overall workmanship, but they remain pretty decent from what I have seen. The Dell Precision computers are simply way over-priced. You can get mini- or mid-tower systems in all of them. They 8400 can be pretty noisy, so most any of these will be quieter, due to lower power consumption by the CPUs, hence less need for full-blast cooling... Ben Myers


Is there a way to tell whether any given Optiplex system will run
two monitors without an add-on card? If I need an add-on card, which
is the quietest that will do the job?

Bob S

On Wed, 02 Jul 2014 10:42:23 -0400, Bob S wrote:


Sorry, I omitted a vital detail:

Is there a way to tell whether any given Optiplex system will run
two monitors without an add-on card? If I need an add-on card, which
is the quietest that will do the job?

One monitor is 1680x1050 (a bit unusual) and the other is 1280 x 1024.

Bob S

On Wednesday, July 2, 2014 11:52:30 AM UTC-4, Bob S wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jul 2014 10:42:23 -0400, Bob S wrote:





Sorry, I omitted a vital detail:



Is there a way to tell whether any given Optiplex system will run

two monitors without an add-on card? If I need an add-on card, which

is the quietest that will do the job?



One monitor is 1680x1050 (a bit unusual) and the other is 1280 x 1024.



Bob S

Unfortunately, the specs on the Dell web site often omit useful details like number of monitors supported. As a rule (and there are always exceptions!), if a system has on-board (usually Intel) video, it supports one and only one monitor. If it has a PCI-Express video card, chances are it will handle two monitors.

You can always add a PCI-Express video card, and, if you are not too fussy about overall performance, most any fanless video card will do. Cards with ATI graphics chips tend to run cooler than nVidia graphics, so they are usually quieter. But both ATI (now part of AMD) and nVidia sell their graphics chips to almost anyone, the result being numerous cards with cheap fans that wear out too soon.

Some Optiplex systems, e.g. small form factor (SFF), have shorter than standard slots, so you would need an add-in card with a smaller bracket.

Windows 7 and later video drivers read out the supported resolutions from the monitor hardware, and the drivers can support monitors of different resolutions. But really, it's better to get a more modern monitor than 1280x1024. They are inexpensive enough... Ben Myers

On Mon, 30 Jun 2014 17:56:56 -0700 (PDT), Ben Myers wrote:

On Monday, June 30, 2014 8:44:45 PM UTC-4, Bob S wrote:
I am currently using a Dell Dimension 8400 P4 Windows XP computer with

1GB RAM, two monitors, and 2 500G disks in RAID mirroring

configuration (due to some previous bad experiences with disk drives).



It is used for the ordinary mail and web and WORD stuff, plus

occasional photo editing and small databases. There are no games more

advanced than Free Cell.



My major reason for replacing it is that I need more disk space (lots

of photos). I have tried larger disks but the machine cannot take

them; it looks like the "not enough address bits" issue.



The fading-away of XP is also a consideration.



The Dell web site has left me knowing only slightly more than when I

started. It seems that I need a "mini-tower" box because none of the

others hold more than one drive. I have been unable to get a clear

picture of which lines use that box; some of the XPS systems do, and

maybe some Inspiron, and maybe some things in the business side, but

in each case some don't.



Two drives are a requirement; I don't want to run out of disk again

for a while.



I have not found any mention of RAID; maybe Dell doesn't do that

anymore?



I have not found where it tells me whether any of the systems will run

two monitors without an add-on card. If I need an add-on card, which

is the quietest that will do the job?



Another wish is that the system is not noisier than my current

machine.



Additional considerations include reasonable processing "power" for

future-proofing without excessive cost; I had been guessing an i5

maybe.



I long ago learned that more memory is good; how much is enough for

the next several years?



I am assuming that Windows 7 Pro is the right OS.



So, what can you suggest, or what have I forgotten to mention?



Bob S

Windows 7 is one choice. But Windows 8.1 is the other, only if you install ClassicShell to get back a full-time Start button to replace the stupid tiles. Either way, the added features of a Pro version compared to a Home version are useful primarily in a corporate setting.

The i5 is a decent middle-of-the-road processor useful for the kinds of things you do. I have numerous customers running i5 systems, desktop and laptop, and they are generally pleased with the computers. If the price is right, a low-end Xeon is OK, too. I am running one in this old system and it runs cool (no more than 110 degrees F), fast and quiet. Sold a few Xeon systems to folks, too.

You might as well get at least 8GB of memory, which implies 64-bit Windows 7. Windows 8 is always 64 bits.

The Optiplex line remains the high quality business class Dell product. Vostros and Inspirons are consumer products that sacrifice some in quality of chassis and overall workmanship, but they remain pretty decent from what I have seen. The Dell Precision computers are simply way over-priced. You can get mini- or mid-tower systems in all of them. They 8400 can be pretty noisy, so most any of these will be quieter, due to lower power consumption by the CPUs, hence less need for full-blast cooling... Ben Myers


I have been wandering around the Dell web site, and have pulled out
four systems to look at. I tried to get them more-or-less equivalent
at 8 GB memory and 1 TB disk, but there are undoubtedly other
differences buried in the configuration details.

Inspiron 3000: Core i5-4460 processor "up to" 3.4 GHz, H81 chipset,
media card reader, 2 external bays, 2 internal bays, VGA + HDMI, 2
memory sockets, integrated graphics might be HD or HD 4400 or HD 4600,
about $550

OPTIPLEX 9020: Core i5-4570 processor 3.2 GHz, Q87 Express chipset, no
media reader, 2 external bays, 2 internal bays, VGA + 2 Display Port,
"up to" 4 memory sockets, integrated graphics HD 4600, about $830 with
500GB disk

OPTIPLEX 3020: Core i5-4570 processor 3.2 GHz, H81 chipset, no media
card reader, 1 external bay, 2 internal bays, VGA + 1 Display Port, 2
memory sockets, integrated graphics HD or HD 4600 with multi-display
support, about $740 - $800

XPS 8700: Core i7-4790 processor "up to" 4 GHz, Z87 chipset, media
card reader, (1 or 2?) external bays, 3 internal bays, No integrated
graphics(?) it uses an add-on card, box is slightly larger probably
because of plastic wrapping, 4 memory sockets, about $850

Apparently the H81 chipset is a "budget" version, the Q87 chipset is
the top business version, and the Z87 chipset is the top home version.
There are various complex descriptions of the differences, but other
than the number of memory slots none of them looked important as far
as I could tell.

If XPS 8700 system really does not have integrated graphic I can
probably discard that line. For someone who wanted gaming graphics
rather than quiet graphics it looks like a pretty promising system.

The small Inspiron is superficially quite a bit less expensive than
the small Optiplex and doesn't have any obvious disadvantage.

The advantages of the Optiplex 9020 must be subtle; they are not
apparent from my undoubtedly ignorant reading of the specs.

Please give me any corrections of my errors of fact or interpretation.

Bob S

On Thu, 3 Jul 2014 10:57:27 -0700 (PDT), Ben Myers wrote:

On Wednesday, July 2, 2014 11:52:30 AM UTC-4, Bob S wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jul 2014 10:42:23 -0400, Bob S wrote:





Sorry, I omitted a vital detail:



Is there a way to tell whether any given Optiplex system will run

two monitors without an add-on card? If I need an add-on card, which

is the quietest that will do the job?



One monitor is 1680x1050 (a bit unusual) and the other is 1280 x 1024.



Bob S

Unfortunately, the specs on the Dell web site often omit useful details like number of monitors supported. As a rule (and there are always exceptions!), if a system has on-board (usually Intel) video, it supports one and only one monitor. If it has a PCI-Express video card, chances are it will handle two monitors.

You can always add a PCI-Express video card, and, if you are not too fussy about overall performance, most any fanless video card will do. Cards with ATI graphics chips tend to run cooler than nVidia graphics, so they are usually quieter. But both ATI (now part of AMD) and nVidia sell their graphics chips to almost anyone, the result being numerous cards with cheap fans that wear out too soon.

Some Optiplex systems, e.g. small form factor (SFF), have shorter than standard slots, so you would need an add-in card with a smaller bracket.

Windows 7 and later video drivers read out the supported resolutions from the monitor hardware, and the drivers can support monitors of different resolutions. But really, it's better to get a more modern monitor than 1280x1024. They are inexpensive enough... Ben Myers


You may be right about getting a newer monitor. I went looking through
the Dell 1920x1080 monitors, and the P2214H or P2314H look pretty
attractive.

It does complicate the system choice though, or simplify it depending
on how you look at it. Those monitors do DVI, VGA, or Display Port; no
HDMI.

The inexpensive Inspiron does HDMI or VGA. The other three do Display
port, though it is also the case that they cost an extra $300 or so.

Somehow VGA doesn't seem like a good choice for high resolution, but
what do I know.

Another factoid that I have turned up is that Intel HD integrated
graphics is supposed to be able to do two monitors. It will allegedly
even do three if they are all the same resolution etc. It is not clear
whether Dell will let it do two monitors. There is also the question
that the only system that has two display port connections is the big
Optiplex. The small Optiplex (which explicitly says "multi-display
support") and the 8700 have one display port; I wonder whether that
cable can be split or daisy-chained or something to support two
monitors.

Bob S

On 04/07/2014 20:23, Bob S wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2014 17:56:56 -0700 (PDT), Ben Myers wrote:




I have been wandering around the Dell web site, and have pulled out
four systems to look at. I tried to get them more-or-less equivalent
at 8 GB memory and 1 TB disk, but there are undoubtedly other
differences buried in the configuration details.





OPTIPLEX 3020: Core i5-4570 processor 3.2 GHz, H81 chipset, no media
card reader, 1 external bay, 2 internal bays, VGA + 1 Display Port, 2
memory sockets, integrated graphics HD or HD 4600 with multi-display
support, about $740 - $800


We have bought around 20 Optiplex 3020s recently (UK), costing around
£400 each and they are good. Windows 8 Pro, downgraded to Win7 pro. They
support dual monitors, no problem with the built in graphics card and
they are very quiet. There's a case fan and obviously a CPU fan but you
can't hear it normally. There's also a speaker inside the case, and good
airflow. We went for the i5 processor w 4GB RAM and it runs our business
apps well. I can recommend that model. We had some 3010s before these,
they also supported dual monitors with the built in graphics card.

Steve