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BFG Tech GeForce 7950 GTOC - PC Shutting Off - Temperature Problem?



 
 
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  #21  
Old November 14th 12, 03:37 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Paul
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Posts: 13,364
Default BFG Tech GeForce 7950 GTOC - PC Shutting Off - Temperature Problem?

Damaeus wrote:
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul nospam+AEA-needed.com
posted on Tue, 13 Nov 2012 14:32:49 -0500 the following:

You would run the CPU load test, for about as long as it would normally
have taken for the computer to shut itself off. The test would have
tested two things, CPU cooling properties, and to some extent,
power supply ability to deliver +ACs-12V to the processor.


Okay, I ran a Prime95 test for 2 hours and 34 minutes while I took a nap.
It reported no errors and my PC was still running the test when I woke up.
The highest temperatures reported by HDMonitor we 48+ALo-C and 49+ALo-C for
each co

[Nov 13 14:54] Worker starting

snipped Prime95 results, which all passed...
[Nov 13 17:28] Worker stopped.



With Final Fantasy, once I played for about 30 minutes with no problems.
The next time, as soon as I started the game, the PC turned off. With
Farmville 2, it happened within 10 minutes or instantly when going
full-screen, but earlier today, it happened even without going
full-screen, and after about five minutes of playing with Facebook junk
surrounding the play area. Age of Empires shut me down within about a
minute or two, including the time it takes to get past the menus to get a
skirmish started.

I'm thinking it might be a 3D issue. I've read that video cards have a 2D
mode and a 3D mode. So far, I've only gotten a shut-down when playing 3D
games. Farmville 2 is a Flash game, but it's also full 3D and runs pretty
smoothly except for short bursts of sluggishness, maybe lasting slightly
less than one second at a time, but happening about every five or six
seconds. I haven't tried any other 3D games so far aside from the three I
mentioned above.

Chefville, for example, is a 2D Flash game, and Farmville 2 is a 3D Flash
game. In the past, I've checked CPU usage for Chefville and it runs about
50+ACU- on average. Farmville 2 only runs the CPU at about 30+ACU-, but I have so
far not gotten a shut-down in Chefville. Chefville does not run as
smoothly as Farmville 2. I have also played CityVille 2 a few times in
full-screen without a problem, but I have not tried to play it again since
encountering this power-off issue in other games.

In Chrome, I'm currently running a 2.5D game called Total Domination:
Nuclear Strategy, and it's running my CPU fluctuating between 30+ACU- and 59+ACU-,
mostly staying above 50+ACU- and my CPU temperature is only 39+ALo-C and 43+ALo- on
the two cores. No shut-downs, no stability problems, no errors, no
crashes. Occasionally Flash does crash on its own, but typically only
after I've been running a game for a very long time, like more than three
hours or so. I have not considered CPU problems as the culprit, but some
kind of flaw in the programming of the game itself. Those games get a lot
of updates, so bugs are more likely to creep in.

Also, I think I mentioned in an earlier post that something about this
system has been "off" since the day I built it. Trouble with animation
pages displaying out of order was the first problem I had, and it was
within the first day or two of using this build back in November of 2006.
But since it only happened in games I could live without, I didn't try
having the card put through any kind of warranty process. I guess I
should have. I highly doubt nVidia would help me at this point, but I'm
desperate enough to call them and just tell them about the history of this
card to see if I could at least get a swap for some refurbished 7950GT in
exchange for my 7950GTOC and maybe +ACQ-50 or something. This will leave me
without a computer until I can get the swap, but I've been religious about
my choice to use nVidia cards. I've had GeForce 2 Ultra, GeForce 5600XT,
GeForce 6800GT, and now this 7950GTOC. This is the first one that I've
had problems with. It's definitely a lemon. But when I get a new
graphics card, I always try to get something near the top end of the
current generation so I won't be unhappy with it or find something it just
won't do.

I'm going to try 1024 x 768 mode in a problem-game because I never had a
crash in that resolution with the 15" LCD. However, I was running Final
Fantasy XI in 1280 x 1024 on a 22" CRT with no problems, and occasionally
1600 x 1200 on the same CRT. I read on the web where others have had a
problem with their computer powering off after changing the video card. If
the video card has some kind of problem, maybe it's trying to draw more
power than it should. I'll try that next, watching GPU voltages instead
of temperature, but I really would rather not push it with this thing. I
don't like for the computer to just go off all by itself like that unless
it's caused by ThermTrip.

[...]
The only mechanisms I know of a

1) THERMTRIP on CPU overheat (turns off PS+AF8-ON+ACM- signal)
2) overloading of +ACs-5VSB, such as too many USB devices, charging
several iPads, leaving multiple 2.5" USB hard drives connected, or
so on. With +ACs-5VSB overloaded, the PS+AF8-ON+ACM- signal gets deasserted and
the supply goes off.


The only things drawing power through USB are the keyboard and mouse. The
image scanner and printer both have their own power cords. I do have
other USB cables plugged in for my camera, cell phone and an iRiver MP3
player, but I don't keep those devices connected all the time. I almost
never use the iRiver player or the digital camera, but the cell phone is
connected sometimes to get a charge or offload any pictures I might have
taken.

3) VCore overcurrent detection (CPU onboard regulator) can turn off
VCore to the processor. But that doesn't cause the computer fans to
stop. And recovery requires toggling the power switch on the back of
the PC. Typically, pressing reset doesn't help.


Yes, I don't have to cycle the power switch on the power supply. I just
push the tower's power button, though I did cycle the PSU switch once when
pressing the button on the tower wouldn't turn it back on, but then I
noticed that I might not have been pushing the button hard enough. I just
"kind of" pressed it once and it didn't come on, but pressing it harder a
second time did the trick. I don't have to actually put a lot of effort
in it, but it takes slightly more than a gentle tap. It's kind of an old
tower, but it's big and charcoal grey and I like that.

[...]
So far, I'm not seeing any symptoms I can match to known design
features.

I'm unaware of any software path, that shuts off the computer
on a video card overheat.

If your CPU crashes and runs code at random from memory,
I suppose it could run into a call to the BIOS to shut off
the computer. But what are the odds of that happening. And
your clean Prime95 results, don't suggest any kind of
instability.

Would a virus or malware trigger a shutoff ? It could, if
an essential software subsystem is killed (security subsystem).
But then, there should be a dialog box on the screen, with
a threat to "turn off in 60 seconds". So again, no symptom
match there. Your machine just switches off.


Yes, and a virus scan of the system files and program files reveal no
viruses. I never run executable attachments and nobody I know ever sends
me any. I use Forte Agent 6.0 to read email and usenet messages, and you
might know about their inherent protection from viruses and other forms of
malware. You actually have to make a choice to run something to hose your
own system. Nothing happens automatically and Agent doesn't even process
ActiveX inclusions.

You might want to go back and review the symptoms before
you replaced the power supply. Is there anything of
interest symptom-wise, there ?


Well, I never had any random shut-downs with my old power supply, but like
you mentioned above, if the electricity ever went off, I had to cycle the
switch on the power supply to get the computer to come back on. If that's
a symptom of a power supply going out, then it was having that problem for
quite a while before I replaced it. Sometimes even cycling the switch on
the back wouldn't get me back up and running. I'm glad to be rid of it.

In its last few days of operation, when viewing dark backgrounds with
light text, for example, the display would become darker and darker and
I'd get gently flickering fluctuations in brightness. Switching to
something with a light background would display everything normally. That
had me thinking at first that the video card was going out. I leave my PC
and monitor running when I go to bed or leave the house or anything. It
just stays on 24/7, no matter what. So one morning I woke up, the CRT was
dark, the computer was going beep...beep...beep...beep...and I could not
turn it on anymore. Definite diagnosis at that point was the power
supply. I replaced it and got the PC back on, but the CRT no longer
worked. I figured the fluctuation in the video delivery from the graphics
card ruined the CRT monitor. In a way, I'm glad it did because it led me
to get this beautiful 27"er. I just love it, except for the fact that it
has no tilt adjustment on the base. I have to prop a book under the back
of the base since my chair is kind of low.

Thanks a whole bunch for all the time you're spending with me on this. I'm
glad to have the experience because I do the same with others in other
newsgroups or forums when I know how to help a person fix a problem.

Damaeus


I think BFG is out of business.

I bought a 7900GT made by them, and the thing was, it appeared for
sale well after production had stopped. So I knew at the time, that
BFG would be going out of business (because, they were selling
their warranty replacement cards). I don't know how much support
from them you'll get now. Some companies leave a warranty handling
section in operation, for a few years. I don't know what BFG
offers right now.

If your motherboard had built-in video, you could try pulling the
video card, and just use the motherboard graphics for some testing.

One tool I have here, is a clamp-on DC ammeter. I can use that
to monitor current flow on any power supply rails. If something
was overloading, that's how I would detect it. That meter is
better than my other multimeter, because you don't cut any wires
to make a current measurement. The jaws of the meter just clamp
around a wire, to measure current flow. (The meter uses a Hall probe,
and is actually detecting the magnetic field around the wire, and that
is how it knows the current.)

This is my ammeter (only mine is older and all-gray in color).
I can measure heavy currents with this safely. For example, when
I wanted to know how much current the starter motor in my car
draws, this meter could tell me. It measured a peak current
of 150 amps from the battery. The starter needed to be replaced.
It's also useful for the main power cable on the motherboard,
and checking 3.3V, 5V, and 12V amps.

http://imageserver.grainger.com/is/i...uctdetail+ACQ-

Maybe there is some means, where a video driver can ask to have
a computer shut down. It's just I've never heard of it. There have
been enough burned up video cards, if there was such a protection,
it isn't working very well :-)

Paul
  #22  
Old November 14th 12, 04:22 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Buffalo[_2_]
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Posts: 98
Default BFG Tech GeForce 7950 GTOC - PC Shutting Off - Temperature Problem?



Damaeus wrote:
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, "Buffalo"
posted on Sun, 11 Nov 2012 09:02:20 -0700 the
following:

Damaeus wrote:

First of all, I recently (within the last week) got a new 27" Acer
S271HL monitor that'll run 1920 x 1080. I love that. For the first
couple or three days, all I did was desktop stuff and Facebook games
like Chefville, Farmville 2, Total Domination: Nuclear Strategy, and
Cityville 2. At first everything was fine. But now there's a
problem that has surfaced. My PC will sometimes shut down with no
warning, and here are the three instances (and only three) in which
it has happened so far:

[...]

Try upgrading to SP 3 and also uninstall and reinstall the vid card
drivers.


I'll do that tonight after 1am Central so it won't impact the "Fair
Access Policy" of the satellite internet service we (try) to use.

Perhaps even use Driver Cleaner to get all the old remnants of the
vid drivers out before reinstalling the new ones.
Ck cpu temp as Paul suggested.


Yeah, CPU temperatures run 29șC to 40șC. GPU temperature idles at
60șC and has been as high as 69șC in Farmville 2. I was going to
check the GPU temperature in Final Fantasy XI, but when I last tried
to run that game, the computer turned itself off again.

Check vid card and cpu fan and cooling fins.


Yes, those had little dust in them, but I blew them out anyway before
posting. It didn't make a difference in temperature.

Is the computer actually shutting down, or just a lack of video
signal?


The computer completely goes off in one instant-no shutdown process
even tries to happen. It's just OFF totally.

PS: Does your monitor require any drivers?


I don't know that they're required, but I do have them installed. It
was one of the first things I did after hooking up the new monitor. I
downloaded them from the Acer website, so they're the most recent
version.

Damaeus

Things you may want to try.
Try jiggling your monitor connector at the PC.
Try tapping your PC OR shaking it some while it is running.
Try disconnecting your UPS
Try , with the power off, disconnecting and reconnecting all your connectors
inside yoru PC (perhaps you will notice some heat damage, arcing, corrosion,
etc).
Remove and reseat all your cards and memory
Try to flex your MB while it is running (do it safely and mildly) to see if
it may have a possible broken trace that intermiittently works.
Check for bulging and/or leaking capacitors.
Try a different monitor
Try a different keyboard ???
Try uninstalling your vid card drivers and remove all traces of the old one
before installing the new ones after a reboot
Try a different vid card.
Try a different PSU.
Clean install of your OS. That would invole some time.
Have a beer, or two or threee or !!!
Buffalo


  #23  
Old November 14th 12, 05:47 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,364
Default BFG Tech GeForce 7950 GTOC - PC Shutting Off - Temperature Problem?

Damaeus wrote:



Just a quick note.

I found another mechanism to shut off a computer.

http://www.bugtrack.almico.com/view.php?id=438

In that example, Speedfan, if given an opportunity to
scan the SMBUS, can shut off the computer. So something
on that particular motherboard design, is "exposed", and
visiting all the addresses on the bus (a bus scan),
triggers something it shouldn't.

Paul

  #24  
Old November 14th 12, 09:57 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Damaeus[_3_]
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Posts: 79
Default BFG Tech GeForce 7950 GTOC - PC Shutting Off - Temperature Problem?

In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul
posted on Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:47:44 -0500 the following:

Damaeus wrote:

Just a quick note.

I found another mechanism to shut off a computer.

http://www.bugtrack.almico.com/view.php?id=438

In that example, Speedfan, if given an opportunity to
scan the SMBUS, can shut off the computer. So something
on that particular motherboard design, is "exposed", and
visiting all the addresses on the bus (a bus scan),
triggers something it shouldn't.


Yes, I'm reading that thread. That is all getting a bit too complicated
for me. I can build computers easily with parts that work, but when it
gets to something like this, I start shopping for new parts...assuming I
have the money.

By the way, I tried running in 1024 x 768 mode since that's what the 15"
LCD was running. I had another shut-down about three or four seconds
after I went full-screen in Farmville 2 about ten minutes ago.

If I was going to have a problem like this, I would rather have seen it
manifest with the old monitor first. Having problems in this order just
messes with my sense of cause and effect.

I'm to the point now where I'd just rather spend my time trying to make
enough money to simply buy a new graphics card and see if that does the
trick. I already know something has been messed up with the graphics
since I built this thing, so before I start poking around inside with
various tools, pressing on this, jiggling that, measuring this, and taking
a chance of scratching a board, I might just avoid the programs that are
giving me problems until I get some new hardware.

I might reconnect the 15" LCD if I can tolerate it. Even when running
this big monitor at 1024 x 768, it was agonizing. Everything was huge,
overlapping windows, scrolling left and right and up and down just to see
all of some web pages. It's just so annoying. lol

Damaeus
  #25  
Old November 14th 12, 10:06 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Damaeus[_3_]
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Posts: 79
Default BFG Tech GeForce 7950 GTOC - PC Shutting Off - Temperature Problem?

In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul
posted on Tue, 13 Nov 2012 21:37:27 -0500 the following:

If your motherboard had built-in video, you could try pulling the
video card, and just use the motherboard graphics for some testing.


There is one other point I forgot to include in all these messages: when I
was using the 15" LCD, it only had a VGA cable so I had to use a DVI-VGA
adapter. This new monitor has DVI natively so I don't need that adapter.
Maybe the DVI has more demands for the video card than it has ever
experienced before. So the new monitor exposes flaws that were not
exposed using a VGA adapter.

Damaeus
  #26  
Old November 14th 12, 02:06 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Damaeus[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default BFG Tech GeForce 7950 GTOC - PC Shutting Off - Temperature Problem?

In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Damaeus
posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 02:57:20
-0600 the following:

I might reconnect the 15" LCD if I can tolerate it. Even when running
this big monitor at 1024 x 768, it was agonizing. Everything was huge,
overlapping windows, scrolling left and right and up and down just to see
all of some web pages. It's just so annoying. lol


Well, the power-down problem has gotten worse so I reconnected the 15"
LCD. First it started doing it under conditions it hadn't at first. It
shut down twice playing Total Domination, and that is only a pseudo 3-D
game with very little animation. Then I rebooted and the PC powered off
before it was even finished booting yet.

This is the first time I've had the 15" LCD reconnected, so now I guess
we'll find out for sure. I'm about to try all the games that were causing
a shut-down before.

I'll post again later, assuming it doesn't shut down permanently.

Damaeus
  #27  
Old November 14th 12, 07:31 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,364
Default BFG Tech GeForce 7950 GTOC - PC Shutting Off - Temperature Problem?

Damaeus wrote:
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Damaeus
posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 02:57:20
-0600 the following:

I might reconnect the 15" LCD if I can tolerate it. Even when running
this big monitor at 1024 x 768, it was agonizing. Everything was huge,
overlapping windows, scrolling left and right and up and down just to see
all of some web pages. It's just so annoying. lol


Well, the power-down problem has gotten worse so I reconnected the 15"
LCD. First it started doing it under conditions it hadn't at first. It
shut down twice playing Total Domination, and that is only a pseudo 3-D
game with very little animation. Then I rebooted and the PC powered off
before it was even finished booting yet.

This is the first time I've had the 15" LCD reconnected, so now I guess
we'll find out for sure. I'm about to try all the games that were causing
a shut-down before.

I'll post again later, assuming it doesn't shut down permanently.

Damaeus


Even if there was a problem with Safety Ground connection on the AC
side of your wiring, I don't think these symptoms would result. The
shell of the monitor cable has a ground connection, so the monitor and
computer will operate at a common ground potential.

It could be that the motherboard has a weak PS_ON# signal, making
a poor logic 0. (This is something you check with a multimeter.
0.4V to 0.8V or so would be a reasonable logic signal, in the
active state. It should float up to close to 5.0V when the
computer is soft-off.)

The critical detail, is the correlation of events. If it *only*
shuts down during 3D games, then PS_ON# would not care whether
you were gaming or not. Games don't draw on +5VSB. So there is
nothing there to de-stabilize the system. The video card power
drain goes up. The CPU power drain goes up. But I don't know
of any other mechanism (barring that SMBUS scan type of fault),
that can shut down the computer. I can't see the video driver
doing it.

If we were debugging in the lab, we'd start at PS_ON# and
work backwards. A schematic is generally recommended,
as the logic tree has more than a few terms in it (SB and
SuperI/O signals). I've debugged electronics without
a schematic, but it isn't that much fun.

Paul
  #28  
Old November 14th 12, 11:22 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Buffalo[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 98
Default BFG Tech GeForce 7950 GTOC - PC Shutting Off - Temperature Problem?



Damaeus wrote:
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Damaeus
posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012
02:57:20 -0600 the following:

I might reconnect the 15" LCD if I can tolerate it. Even when
running this big monitor at 1024 x 768, it was agonizing.
Everything was huge, overlapping windows, scrolling left and right
and up and down just to see all of some web pages. It's just so
annoying. lol


Well, the power-down problem has gotten worse so I reconnected the 15"
LCD. First it started doing it under conditions it hadn't at first.
It shut down twice playing Total Domination, and that is only a
pseudo 3-D game with very little animation. Then I rebooted and the
PC powered off before it was even finished booting yet.

This is the first time I've had the 15" LCD reconnected, so now I
guess we'll find out for sure. I'm about to try all the games that
were causing a shut-down before.

I'll post again later, assuming it doesn't shut down permanently.

Damaeus

If you have another PSU, switch it out.
Buffalo
I


  #29  
Old November 15th 12, 02:32 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Damaeus[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default BFG Tech GeForce 7950 GTOC - PC Shutting Off - Temperature Problem?

In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, "Buffalo"
posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 15:22:03 -0700 the
following:

If you have another PSU, switch it out.


I don't have enough money to have multiple computer parts lying around. I
do have OLD parts, like a couple of old motherboards. I only have one
power supply and I bought it new back in July 2012.

PSU: Thermaltake SP-850AH3CCB 850w

I got a Thermaltake because I sort of thought it was a good brand.

Damaeus
  #30  
Old November 15th 12, 02:39 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia
Damaeus[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default BFG Tech GeForce 7950 GTOC - PC Shutting Off - Temperature Problem?

In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul
posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 13:31:53 -0500 the following:

This is the first time I've had the 15" LCD reconnected, so now I guess
we'll find out for sure. I'm about to try all the games that were causing
a shut-down before.


Even if there was a problem with Safety Ground connection on the AC
side of your wiring, I don't think these symptoms would result. The
shell of the monitor cable has a ground connection, so the monitor and
computer will operate at a common ground potential.

It could be that the motherboard has a weak PS_ON# signal, making
a poor logic 0. (This is something you check with a multimeter.
0.4V to 0.8V or so would be a reasonable logic signal, in the
active state. It should float up to close to 5.0V when the
computer is soft-off.)

The critical detail, is the correlation of events. If it *only*
shuts down during 3D games, then PS_ON# would not care whether
you were gaming or not. Games don't draw on +5VSB. So there is
nothing there to de-stabilize the system. The video card power
drain goes up. The CPU power drain goes up. But I don't know
of any other mechanism (barring that SMBUS scan type of fault),
that can shut down the computer. I can't see the video driver
doing it.


Well, it WAS only shutting down in 3D games, but now it's shutting down in
a game that shouldn't be 3D. I mean, there's very little animation that
goes on, you can't spin the view to see it from different angles, when you
scroll around the game, there is no depth interpretation to make closer
objects move around more quickly than distant objects, etc.... It's like
scrolling around an old SimCity game.

Also, with the 27" LCD, I had a power-off event happen while the system
was booting up, just a few seconds after the desktop appeared.

So I reconnected the 15" LCD and had another power-off event after
Farmville 2 launched in a background tab in Chrome, so it wasn't even
full-screen when it happened. I'm pretty confident now in saying it's not
the monitor causing the problem, but in a horrible timing of events,
something went kapooey in the computer just a couple of days after hooking
up the new monitor.

If we were debugging in the lab, we'd start at PS_ON# and
work backwards. A schematic is generally recommended,
as the logic tree has more than a few terms in it (SB and
SuperI/O signals). I've debugged electronics without
a schematic, but it isn't that much fun.


Yes, that gets too complicated for me. I'd have to learn as I go and I
wouldn't want to do that unless I'm horribly desperate. This is the time
when I usually start shopping for computer parts, but I am invariably
broke. I've got a couple of things I could sell on eBay, like one very
rare comic book -- and the creator of it has died since I bought it. I
can't remember what I paid for it, myself... it was somewhere between $65
and $145. And I've got one of only 1,000 copies of another book that I
paid $150 or so for. The two together might cover a motherboard. lol

At this point, I fear I'd probably lose power right when I'm about to list
them for sale.

Damaeus
 




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