If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Wise to use HDD as offline storage?
I'm a home PC user based in the UK. I run mainly office applications
and downloading music. No gaming or power PC stuff. ------ (A) My music is mainly on two or three 160 GB drives. Much of that can be replaced. (B) I have also got XP on a 15 GB system partition. (C) Various downloaded programs, utilities and cache files take 45 GB on another partition. My drives are ATA 3.5inch internal drives. I find it easy enough to put them in or take them out of the PC cabinet without needing to get an expensive USB attached hard drive. ------ I want to keep backup copies of the partitions used by the system (B above) and downloaded programs (C above). How viable is it for a user like me to use a HARD DRIVE (maybe 160 GB or 200 GB) as a backup medium? I would store the hard drive stored on a shelf away from the system. Is it worth worrying that the hard drive could become problematic when it gets put back in the system? Is it likely that "normal shocks" in handling the hard drive could damage my backup data stored on it? In addition, sometimes I would want to archive away one set of backups for two or three years. Are there any alternatives to a hard drive which I should consider? I'm attracted to a hard drive because the cost per GB is so good and my backup data is available almost as soon as I plug in the offline hard drive. Would it be good value to get a DVD burner instead? How long might it take to back up 15 GB to DVD? What about 50 GB? Is DVD a better backup medium than a hard drive? Is DVD a better archival medium than a hard drive? |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Columbus wrote
I'm a home PC user based in the UK. I run mainly office applications and downloading music. No gaming or power PC stuff. ------ (A) My music is mainly on two or three 160 GB drives. Much of that can be replaced. (B) I have also got XP on a 15 GB system partition. (C) Various downloaded programs, utilities and cache files take 45 GB on another partition. My drives are ATA 3.5inch internal drives. I find it easy enough to put them in or take them out of the PC cabinet without needing to get an expensive USB attached hard drive. ------ I want to keep backup copies of the partitions used by the system (B above) and downloaded programs (C above). Is there much point with the C ? They age pretty quickly and can be easily replaced if you need to. Likely better to keep a list of them rather than backing them up. How viable is it for a user like me to use a HARD DRIVE (maybe 160 GB or 200 GB) as a backup medium? Very viable. I would store the hard drive stored on a shelf away from the system. That doesnt gain much backup wise, having it out of the system. If it isnt hidden it may well get stolen with the system and it obviously isnt protected against fire or flood etc. Is it worth worrying that the hard drive could become problematic when it gets put back in the system? It shouldnt be if you use a formal standard like SATA. Is it likely that "normal shocks" in handling the hard drive could damage my backup data stored on it? Yes, particularly if you are prone to dropping things. Hard drives hate that. In addition, sometimes I would want to archive away one set of backups for two or three years. Are there any alternatives to a hard drive which I should consider? Yes, DVDs are worth considering, particularly for the archive. I'm attracted to a hard drive because the cost per GB is so good and my backup data is available almost as soon as I plug in the offline hard drive. And they are the fastest form of backup, both when doing the backup and when getting something off the backup. Would it be good value to get a DVD burner instead? Or have both. DVD burners are damned cheap now. How long might it take to back up 15 GB to DVD? What about 50 GB? Really depend on the speed media you choose to use. And the speed doesnt matter too much if you do it in DVD sized chunks. Is DVD a better backup medium than a hard drive? Better in some ways, much easier to have the backup out of the house for example. Worse in other ways, MUCH slower than a hard drive. Is DVD a better archival medium than a hard drive? Yes, basically because it doesnt cost much to have more than one copy on different media so one failure is just a yawn. Much more expensive to do that with a hard drive. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Columbus wrote:
My drives are ATA 3.5inch internal drives. I find it easy enough to put them in or take them out of the PC cabinet without needing to get an expensive USB attached hard drive. I want to keep backup copies of the partitions used by the system (B above) and downloaded programs (C above). How viable is it for a user like me to use a HARD DRIVE (maybe 160 GB or 200 GB) as a backup medium? I would store the hard drive stored on a shelf away from the system. Is it worth worrying that the hard drive could become problematic when it gets put back in the system? Is it likely that "normal shocks" in handling the hard drive could damage my backup data stored on it? Assuming your "normal" handling is careful, your data should be reasonably safe. (I've had hard drives survive a fall to the floor, but I don't count on being that lucky all the time.) For regular hard drive swapping, consider a tray system. They cost some money but save time and trouble and reduce wear and tear on the drives' power and data connectors. In addition, sometimes I would want to archive away one set of backups for two or three years. Are there any alternatives to a hard drive which I should consider? I'm attracted to a hard drive because the cost per GB is so good and my backup data is available almost as soon as I plug in the offline hard drive. Would it be good value to get a DVD burner instead? How long might it take to back up 15 GB to DVD? What about 50 GB? Is DVD a better backup medium than a hard drive? Is DVD a better archival medium than a hard drive? "We started changing the tapes eight or ten years ago. The first transfers we made were all to DAT. We found that DAT started deteriorating so we moved them to CDs. We didn't think that was sufficient, so we moved to hard drives. That way it preserves it, hopefully forever." Sun Records CEO Shelby Singleton, quoted by Mathew Honan in Exhibitions of Sound http://playlistmag.com/features/2005/08/preserve3/index.php. The modern consensus seems to be that there is no permanent archival medium, so archiving means a continual process of testing and copying onto new media. If you use multiple hard drives, treat them kindly, and run dignostics on them periodically, you can probably get three years out of each drive before it needs replacing. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Columbus wrote:
I'm a home PC user based in the UK. I run mainly office applications and downloading music. No gaming or power PC stuff. ------ (A) My music is mainly on two or three 160 GB drives. Much of that can be replaced. (B) I have also got XP on a 15 GB system partition. (C) Various downloaded programs, utilities and cache files take 45 GB on another partition. My drives are ATA 3.5inch internal drives. I find it easy enough to put them in or take them out of the PC cabinet without needing to get an expensive USB attached hard drive. ------ I want to keep backup copies of the partitions used by the system (B above) and downloaded programs (C above). How viable is it for a user like me to use a HARD DRIVE (maybe 160 GB or 200 GB) as a backup medium? I would store the hard drive stored on a shelf away from the system. Is it worth worrying that the hard drive could become problematic when it gets put back in the system? Is it likely that "normal shocks" in handling the hard drive could damage my backup data stored on it? Depends on what you consider "normal". Treat it like it was a raw egg and you should be fine with regard to shock. Another danger is electrostatic damage. Two choices: USB enclosure (preferrable) or careful handling and storage, e.g. in the plastic shell Seagate delivers its drives with (very useful!). In addition, sometimes I would want to archive away one set of backups for two or three years. Possibly problematic, but less likely IMO. Way around this: Use two drives from different manufacturere or better even three. Many sysadmins also think that you should have at least three independent backups. Are there any alternatives to a hard drive which I should consider? I'm attracted to a hard drive because the cost per GB is so good and my backup data is available almost as soon as I plug in the offline hard drive. More robust alternatives: MOD (3.5"), DVD-RAM and professional tape. Personally I have critical stuff (family photographs, code, etc) on MOD (never lost a single bit in now 8 years), everything else on HDDs in other computers. Would it be good value to get a DVD burner instead? How long might it take to back up 15 GB to DVD? What about 50 GB? Is DVD a better backup medium than a hard drive? Is DVD a better archival medium than a hard drive? Forget about them. Some DVD/Burner/Speed combinations are pretty good, many are catastrophic and manufactueres often change their disks without changing the labels. Completely unusable for archiving, mostly unusable for backups. Exception: DVD-RAM. Arno |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Neill Massello wrote:
Columbus wrote: [...] "We started changing the tapes eight or ten years ago. The first transfers we made were all to DAT. We found that DAT started deteriorating so we moved them to CDs. We didn't think that was sufficient, so we moved to hard drives. That way it preserves it, hopefully forever." Sun Records CEO Shelby Singleton, quoted by Mathew Honan in Exhibitions of Sound http://playlistmag.com/features/2005/08/preserve3/index.php. The modern consensus seems to be that there is no permanent archival medium, so archiving means a continual process of testing and copying onto new media. If you use multiple hard drives, treat them kindly, and run dignostics on them periodically, you can probably get three years out of each drive before it needs replacing. Actually professional Tape (not DAT), MOD and with some limitations (cartridge!) DVD-RAM all give 50 years. But neither of them are cheap. You get what you pay for. HDDs are most reliable when you have them in a redundant configuration and test them periodically. Still, a single copy for long-term archiving on a HDD is gone when you drop the disk if you are not very lucky. A tape cartridge or a MOD or DVD-RAM in its cartridge are very sturdy in comparison. Arno |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Arno,
What MO drives and media you use - Fujitsu? -- Pavel "Arno Wagner" wrote in message ... In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Columbus wrote: I'm a home PC user based in the UK. I run mainly office applications and downloading music. No gaming or power PC stuff. ------ (A) My music is mainly on two or three 160 GB drives. Much of that can be replaced. (B) I have also got XP on a 15 GB system partition. (C) Various downloaded programs, utilities and cache files take 45 GB on another partition. My drives are ATA 3.5inch internal drives. I find it easy enough to put them in or take them out of the PC cabinet without needing to get an expensive USB attached hard drive. ------ I want to keep backup copies of the partitions used by the system (B above) and downloaded programs (C above). How viable is it for a user like me to use a HARD DRIVE (maybe 160 GB or 200 GB) as a backup medium? I would store the hard drive stored on a shelf away from the system. Is it worth worrying that the hard drive could become problematic when it gets put back in the system? Is it likely that "normal shocks" in handling the hard drive could damage my backup data stored on it? Depends on what you consider "normal". Treat it like it was a raw egg and you should be fine with regard to shock. Another danger is electrostatic damage. Two choices: USB enclosure (preferrable) or careful handling and storage, e.g. in the plastic shell Seagate delivers its drives with (very useful!). In addition, sometimes I would want to archive away one set of backups for two or three years. Possibly problematic, but less likely IMO. Way around this: Use two drives from different manufacturere or better even three. Many sysadmins also think that you should have at least three independent backups. Are there any alternatives to a hard drive which I should consider? I'm attracted to a hard drive because the cost per GB is so good and my backup data is available almost as soon as I plug in the offline hard drive. More robust alternatives: MOD (3.5"), DVD-RAM and professional tape. Personally I have critical stuff (family photographs, code, etc) on MOD (never lost a single bit in now 8 years), everything else on HDDs in other computers. Would it be good value to get a DVD burner instead? How long might it take to back up 15 GB to DVD? What about 50 GB? Is DVD a better backup medium than a hard drive? Is DVD a better archival medium than a hard drive? Forget about them. Some DVD/Burner/Speed combinations are pretty good, many are catastrophic and manufactueres often change their disks without changing the labels. Completely unusable for archiving, mostly unusable for backups. Exception: DVD-RAM. Arno |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Tray system for HDDs - I have been using them for over 10 years, every
computer in the house (5) has a tray shell (housing) installed. It takes literally about 15 seconds to switch drives - machines - OS -whatever. Tray and housing combo costs about $15.00 at computer shows, probably less online. Regards, Marv Neill Massello wrote: Columbus wrote: My drives are ATA 3.5inch internal drives. I find it easy enough to put them in or take them out of the PC cabinet without needing to get an expensive USB attached hard drive. I want to keep backup copies of the partitions used by the system (B above) and downloaded programs (C above). How viable is it for a user like me to use a HARD DRIVE (maybe 160 GB or 200 GB) as a backup medium? I would store the hard drive stored on a shelf away from the system. Is it worth worrying that the hard drive could become problematic when it gets put back in the system? Is it likely that "normal shocks" in handling the hard drive could damage my backup data stored on it? Assuming your "normal" handling is careful, your data should be reasonably safe. (I've had hard drives survive a fall to the floor, but I don't count on being that lucky all the time.) For regular hard drive swapping, consider a tray system. They cost some money but save time and trouble and reduce wear and tear on the drives' power and data connectors. In addition, sometimes I would want to archive away one set of backups for two or three years. Are there any alternatives to a hard drive which I should consider? I'm attracted to a hard drive because the cost per GB is so good and my backup data is available almost as soon as I plug in the offline hard drive. Would it be good value to get a DVD burner instead? How long might it take to back up 15 GB to DVD? What about 50 GB? Is DVD a better backup medium than a hard drive? Is DVD a better archival medium than a hard drive? "We started changing the tapes eight or ten years ago. The first transfers we made were all to DAT. We found that DAT started deteriorating so we moved them to CDs. We didn't think that was sufficient, so we moved to hard drives. That way it preserves it, hopefully forever." Sun Records CEO Shelby Singleton, quoted by Mathew Honan in Exhibitions of Sound http://playlistmag.com/features/2005/08/preserve3/index.php. The modern consensus seems to be that there is no permanent archival medium, so archiving means a continual process of testing and copying onto new media. If you use multiple hard drives, treat them kindly, and run dignostics on them periodically, you can probably get three years out of each drive before it needs replacing. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Pavel A. wrote:
Arno, What MO drives and media you use - Fujitsu? The drive is an internal Fujitsu SCSI drive (640MB, in use for about 8 years now). Today I would likely get a 2.3GB drive (they are fully backwards compatible) with IDE or USB2 interface, again from Fujitsu. I have media from several manufacturers, mostly Philips, some Sony and some FujiFilm. It does not really matter, they all are reliable. The only problem I ever had was with an excess of dust in a disk (errors when writing, no data loss before) that was fixed by cleaning the disk. Arno |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
You are just speaking of two very different backup strategies. It is a
personal preference and you should use what you feel comfortable with. Either one is "good"! Try them both and you will soon gravitate toward one as "your" preferred method. -- Regards, Richard Urban Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User Quote from: George Ankner "If you knew as much as you think you know, You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!" "Columbus" wrote in message ... I'm a home PC user based in the UK. I run mainly office applications and downloading music. No gaming or power PC stuff. ------ (A) My music is mainly on two or three 160 GB drives. Much of that can be replaced. (B) I have also got XP on a 15 GB system partition. (C) Various downloaded programs, utilities and cache files take 45 GB on another partition. My drives are ATA 3.5inch internal drives. I find it easy enough to put them in or take them out of the PC cabinet without needing to get an expensive USB attached hard drive. ------ I want to keep backup copies of the partitions used by the system (B above) and downloaded programs (C above). How viable is it for a user like me to use a HARD DRIVE (maybe 160 GB or 200 GB) as a backup medium? I would store the hard drive stored on a shelf away from the system. Is it worth worrying that the hard drive could become problematic when it gets put back in the system? Is it likely that "normal shocks" in handling the hard drive could damage my backup data stored on it? In addition, sometimes I would want to archive away one set of backups for two or three years. Are there any alternatives to a hard drive which I should consider? I'm attracted to a hard drive because the cost per GB is so good and my backup data is available almost as soon as I plug in the offline hard drive. Would it be good value to get a DVD burner instead? How long might it take to back up 15 GB to DVD? What about 50 GB? Is DVD a better backup medium than a hard drive? Is DVD a better archival medium than a hard drive? |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Thanks Arno. I'm looking at MO for a long time
but still undecided. 2.3 GB is less than 4.7 of DVD, They are not only expensive but also not easy to buy, most stores where I live don't sell them. Also, Iomega from time to time tries to win the market = their newest product looks interesting but again, it's future is not clear. --PA "Arno Wagner" wrote in message ... In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Pavel A. wrote: Arno, What MO drives and media you use - Fujitsu? The drive is an internal Fujitsu SCSI drive (640MB, in use for about 8 years now). Today I would likely get a 2.3GB drive (they are fully backwards compatible) with IDE or USB2 interface, again from Fujitsu. I have media from several manufacturers, mostly Philips, some Sony and some FujiFilm. It does not really matter, they all are reliable. The only problem I ever had was with an excess of dust in a disk (errors when writing, no data loss before) that was fixed by cleaning the disk. Arno |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
SAN (Storage Area Network) Security FAQ Revision 2004/10/30 - Part 1/1 | Will Spencer | Storage & Hardrives | 0 | October 30th 04 08:35 AM |
Enterprise Storage Management (ESM) FAQ Revision 2004/06/23 - Part 1/1 | Will Spencer | Storage & Hardrives | 0 | June 23rd 04 06:58 AM |
Enterprise Storage Management (ESM) FAQ Revision 2004/04/11 - Part 1/1 | Will Spencer | Storage & Hardrives | 0 | April 11th 04 07:24 AM |
Enterprise Storage Management (ESM) FAQ Revision 2004/02/16 - Part 1/1 | Will Spencer | Storage & Hardrives | 0 | February 16th 04 09:23 PM |
Terabyte Storage By Real-Storage | Real-Storage | Storage & Hardrives | 2 | October 23rd 03 04:18 PM |