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#1
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Possible 9200se problems
My computer incidentally and randomly freezes (no mouse and keyboard
input and no screen activity) after I installed an Asus (ATI) Radeon 9200SE video card. I don't use the computer for graphics-intensive gaming. I suspect that the Radeon card is the cause of the problems although I can't be sure of that. On one freeze occasion I did notice that the card gets rather hot. It does not have a fan. I would like to know if this card should be able to function as an ordinary video card on a computer that is continuously on, but not used for graphics-intensive applications. Underclocking the card with Atitool seems to lower the temperature, which could be an acceptable solution for me. -- ________________________________________ Sjoerd Bakker ________________________________________ |
#2
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On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 00:20:22 +0100, "carl0s"
wrote: "Sjoerd Bakker" wrote in message .. . My computer incidentally and randomly freezes (no mouse and keyboard input and no screen activity) after I installed an Asus (ATI) Radeon 9200SE video card. I don't use the computer for graphics-intensive gaming. I suspect that the Radeon card is the cause of the problems although I can't be sure of that. On one freeze occasion I did notice that the card gets rather hot. It does not have a fan. I would like to know if this card should be able to function as an ordinary video card on a computer that is continuously on, but not used for graphics-intensive applications. Underclocking the card with Atitool seems to lower the temperature, which could be an acceptable solution for me. I had a quantity of 9200SE 'Celestica' cards, whose supplied drivers caused insane shutdowns and reboots upon changing the resolution. Have you tried the newest drivers from http://www.ati.com ? Yes. Lowering the clock speed did not help; I had another freeze. What is causing them is hard to determine because they usually only happen every couple of hours. Then I reset the computer and I can work again for some hours. I can't even be sure that the video card is causing them, but I did not have them with my old card. If they keep continuing, I'll buy another card; just to be able to isolate the problem. -- ________________________________________ Sjoerd Bakker ________________________________________ |
#3
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On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:31:53 +0200, Sjoerd Bakker
wrote: On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 00:20:22 +0100, "carl0s" wrote: "Sjoerd Bakker" wrote in message . .. My computer incidentally and randomly freezes (no mouse and keyboard input and no screen activity) after I installed an Asus (ATI) Radeon 9200SE video card. I don't use the computer for graphics-intensive gaming. I suspect that the Radeon card is the cause of the problems although I can't be sure of that. On one freeze occasion I did notice that the card gets rather hot. It does not have a fan. I would like to know if this card should be able to function as an ordinary video card on a computer that is continuously on, but not used for graphics-intensive applications. Underclocking the card with Atitool seems to lower the temperature, which could be an acceptable solution for me. I had a quantity of 9200SE 'Celestica' cards, whose supplied drivers caused insane shutdowns and reboots upon changing the resolution. Have you tried the newest drivers from http://www.ati.com ? Yes. Lowering the clock speed did not help; I had another freeze. What is causing them is hard to determine because they usually only happen every couple of hours. Then I reset the computer and I can work again for some hours. I can't even be sure that the video card is causing them, but I did not have them with my old card. If they keep continuing, I'll buy another card; just to be able to isolate the problem. It does sound like a heat problem, Sjoerd. Whether your card can "function as an ordinary video card on a computer that is continuously on" isn't just down to the amount of heat the card produces and how well its cooling works. Even the best graphics cooling system is useless if it's stuck in a case with poor air circulation and too much heat. It would definitely be a good idea to consider a) some form of active cooling for your card and b) investigating how good airflow is through your case and specifically what sort of airflow there is around your card. A couple of ways you could establish whether heat _is_ the problem are to run the system with the side of the case off and an external fan directed on to the card, or to spray the card with a freezing aerosol - or even just blow cold air over it - when it locks up and see if either of these help. Patrick - take five to email me... |
#4
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On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:44:07 GMT, patrickp
wrote: On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:31:53 +0200, Sjoerd Bakker wrote: On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 00:20:22 +0100, "carl0s" wrote: "Sjoerd Bakker" wrote in message ... My computer incidentally and randomly freezes (no mouse and keyboard input and no screen activity) after I installed an Asus (ATI) Radeon 9200SE video card. I don't use the computer for graphics-intensive gaming. I suspect that the Radeon card is the cause of the problems although I can't be sure of that. On one freeze occasion I did notice that the card gets rather hot. It does not have a fan. I would like to know if this card should be able to function as an ordinary video card on a computer that is continuously on, but not used for graphics-intensive applications. Underclocking the card with Atitool seems to lower the temperature, which could be an acceptable solution for me. I had a quantity of 9200SE 'Celestica' cards, whose supplied drivers caused insane shutdowns and reboots upon changing the resolution. Have you tried the newest drivers from http://www.ati.com ? Yes. Lowering the clock speed did not help; I had another freeze. What is causing them is hard to determine because they usually only happen every couple of hours. Then I reset the computer and I can work again for some hours. I can't even be sure that the video card is causing them, but I did not have them with my old card. If they keep continuing, I'll buy another card; just to be able to isolate the problem. It does sound like a heat problem, Sjoerd. Whether your card can "function as an ordinary video card on a computer that is continuously on" isn't just down to the amount of heat the card produces and how well its cooling works. Even the best graphics cooling system is useless if it's stuck in a case with poor air circulation and too much heat.. It would definitely be a good idea to consider a) some form of active cooling for your card Selling cards without fans that can't function well that way would seem a questionable commercial practice. That's why I was curious if anyone else has the 9200se on continuously without problems. and b) investigating how good airflow is through your case and specifically what sort of airflow there is around your card. Right now I have the case open because of the problem with the card. I even bought the 9200se *because* it has no fan: I don't need another source of noise. My previous card was an ancient Stealth Video 2500 that had no fan either, and it worked fine. But there is no XP driver for it and it interferes with my sound card. A couple of ways you could establish whether heat _is_ the problem are to run the system with the side of the case off and an external fan directed on to the card, or to spray the card with a freezing aerosol - or even just blow cold air over it - when it locks up and see if either of these help. Good suggestions; I'll consider them. But I doubt if you can unlock cards that way in all cases of overheating. I may do some research on the Internet. And I really don't feel like using a fan on a graphics card, so I'll consider buying a GeForce type of card without fan anyway and see how it functions. -- ________________________________________ Sjoerd Bakker ________________________________________ |
#5
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On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 02:26:35 +0200, Sjoerd Bakker
wrote: On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:44:07 GMT, patrickp wrote: On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:31:53 +0200, Sjoerd Bakker wrote: On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 00:20:22 +0100, "carl0s" wrote: "Sjoerd Bakker" wrote in message m... My computer incidentally and randomly freezes (no mouse and keyboard input and no screen activity) after I installed an Asus (ATI) Radeon 9200SE video card. I don't use the computer for graphics-intensive gaming. I suspect that the Radeon card is the cause of the problems although I can't be sure of that. On one freeze occasion I did notice that the card gets rather hot. It does not have a fan. I would like to know if this card should be able to function as an ordinary video card on a computer that is continuously on, but not used for graphics-intensive applications. Underclocking the card with Atitool seems to lower the temperature, which could be an acceptable solution for me. I had a quantity of 9200SE 'Celestica' cards, whose supplied drivers caused insane shutdowns and reboots upon changing the resolution. Have you tried the newest drivers from http://www.ati.com ? Yes. Lowering the clock speed did not help; I had another freeze. What is causing them is hard to determine because they usually only happen every couple of hours. Then I reset the computer and I can work again for some hours. I can't even be sure that the video card is causing them, but I did not have them with my old card. If they keep continuing, I'll buy another card; just to be able to isolate the problem. It does sound like a heat problem, Sjoerd. Whether your card can "function as an ordinary video card on a computer that is continuously on" isn't just down to the amount of heat the card produces and how well its cooling works. Even the best graphics cooling system is useless if it's stuck in a case with poor air circulation and too much heat.. It would definitely be a good idea to consider a) some form of active cooling for your card Selling cards without fans that can't function well that way would seem a questionable commercial practice. That's why I was curious if anyone else has the 9200se on continuously without problems. Cards without fans are sold for people who want quiet machines: but a moment's thought makes it obvious that good airflow over a fanless card is essential. They're sold because people want them: I don't see any problem with that, but perhaps manufacturers should make it clear that these cards must have good airflow. While fanless cards are a nice idea to reduce noise, they go inside the case where the sound a fan would make is largely muted. Substituting cooling the case for cooling the card is to some extent counterproductive, since you're now doing the cooling with fans that intake/exhaust to the outside of the case, where they're more audible. and b) investigating how good airflow is through your case and specifically what sort of airflow there is around your card. Right now I have the case open because of the problem with the card. I even bought the 9200se *because* it has no fan: I don't need another source of noise. My previous card was an ancient Stealth Video 2500 that had no fan either, and it worked fine. But there is no XP driver for it and it interferes with my sound card. I don't know your Stealth Video 2500, but I would suspect that, like most older cards, it didn't generate much heat. All modern cards do, to some extent. A couple of ways you could establish whether heat _is_ the problem are to run the system with the side of the case off and an external fan directed on to the card, or to spray the card with a freezing aerosol - or even just blow cold air over it - when it locks up and see if either of these help. Good suggestions; I'll consider them. But I doubt if you can unlock cards that way in all cases of overheating. Depends whether permanent damage has been done by the heat build-up. If not, and if lock-ups _are_ due to heat, this should work - but it's meant more to establish for sure that overheating _is_ the problem, rather than as a fix. I may do some research on the Internet. And I really don't feel like using a fan on a graphics card, so I'll consider buying a GeForce type of card without fan anyway and see how it functions. If the problem is due to the heat, that may not make any difference: a GeForce is likely to run just as hot as an ATI card. If the model you go for has a better passive heatsink, that may help, but some ATI models may have better heatsinks, too. I don't think you'll find solutions by blaming the card, only by improving your overall cooling strategies. Patrick - take five to email me... |
#6
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On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 07:40:52 GMT, patrickp
wrote: On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 02:26:35 +0200, Sjoerd Bakker wrote: On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:44:07 GMT, patrickp wrote: On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:31:53 +0200, Sjoerd Bakker wrote: On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 00:20:22 +0100, "carl0s" wrote: "Sjoerd Bakker" wrote in message om... My computer incidentally and randomly freezes (no mouse and keyboard input and no screen activity) after I installed an Asus (ATI) Radeon 9200SE video card. I don't use the computer for graphics-intensive gaming. I suspect that the Radeon card is the cause of the problems although I can't be sure of that. On one freeze occasion I did notice that the card gets rather hot. It does not have a fan. I would like to know if this card should be able to function as an ordinary video card on a computer that is continuously on, but not used for graphics-intensive applications. Underclocking the card with Atitool seems to lower the temperature, which could be an acceptable solution for me. I had a quantity of 9200SE 'Celestica' cards, whose supplied drivers caused insane shutdowns and reboots upon changing the resolution. Have you tried the newest drivers from http://www.ati.com ? Yes. Lowering the clock speed did not help; I had another freeze. What is causing them is hard to determine because they usually only happen every couple of hours. Then I reset the computer and I can work again for some hours. I can't even be sure that the video card is causing them, but I did not have them with my old card. If they keep continuing, I'll buy another card; just to be able to isolate the problem. It does sound like a heat problem, Sjoerd. Whether your card can "function as an ordinary video card on a computer that is continuously on" isn't just down to the amount of heat the card produces and how well its cooling works. Even the best graphics cooling system is useless if it's stuck in a case with poor air circulation and too much heat.. It would definitely be a good idea to consider a) some form of active cooling for your card Selling cards without fans that can't function well that way would seem a questionable commercial practice. That's why I was curious if anyone else has the 9200se on continuously without problems. Cards without fans are sold for people who want quiet machines: but a moment's thought makes it obvious that good airflow over a fanless card is essential. They're sold because people want them: I don't see any problem with that, but perhaps manufacturers should make it clear that these cards must have good airflow. Yes. As an avarage consumer, I don't expect that I should take special mesures to cool the case when I buy a video card that is sold as such without fan. While fanless cards are a nice idea to reduce noise, they go inside the case where the sound a fan would make is largely muted. Substituting cooling the case for cooling the card is to some extent counterproductive, since you're now doing the cooling with fans that intake/exhaust to the outside of the case, where they're more audible. Maybe you are right. and b) investigating how good airflow is through your case and specifically what sort of airflow there is around your card. Right now I have the case open because of the problem with the card. I even bought the 9200se *because* it has no fan: I don't need another source of noise. My previous card was an ancient Stealth Video 2500 that had no fan either, and it worked fine. But there is no XP driver for it and it interferes with my sound card. I don't know your Stealth Video 2500, but I would suspect that, like most older cards, it didn't generate much heat. All modern cards do, to some extent. The thing is that I don't need a very fast card for gaming; it only needs to be a little faster than a card from 1997 and have an XP driver. So from my point of view, such a card could technically be fanless without problems. I've looked around, and there are many fanless video cards; maybe I just had bad luck with the 9200se. But after this trouble, I'll consider buying one with a fan anyway; it seems the safest thing to do. A couple of ways you could establish whether heat _is_ the problem are to run the system with the side of the case off and an external fan directed on to the card, or to spray the card with a freezing aerosol - or even just blow cold air over it - when it locks up and see if either of these help. Good suggestions; I'll consider them. But I doubt if you can unlock cards that way in all cases of overheating. Depends whether permanent damage has been done by the heat build-up. If not, and if lock-ups _are_ due to heat, this should work - but it's meant more to establish for sure that overheating _is_ the problem, rather than as a fix. Yes. But I was thinking that the software of the driver could lock up as well when you have a hardware error. It would be interesting to unfreeze a card that way though, but I could not find any reports on the Internet of people who have done so. I may do some research on the Internet. And I really don't feel like using a fan on a graphics card, so I'll consider buying a GeForce type of card without fan anyway and see how it functions. If the problem is due to the heat, that may not make any difference: a GeForce is likely to run just as hot as an ATI card. If the model you go for has a better passive heatsink, that may help, but some ATI models may have better heatsinks, too. I don't think you'll find solutions by blaming the card, only by improving your overall cooling strategies. In this case, I partly blame the card as well, but your point is taken. -- ________________________________________ Sjoerd Bakker ________________________________________ |
#7
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"Sjoerd Bakker" wrote in message ... snip To be honest, I think you either have a faulty card, motherboard, or PSU. I would first try another similar card, then another PSU, then.. |
#8
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On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 22:03:30 +0100, "carl0s"
wrote: "Sjoerd Bakker" wrote in message .. . snip To be honest, I think you either have a faulty card, motherboard, or PSU. I would first try another similar card, then another PSU, then.. I think it's the card, or a combination of the card and another component. The motherboard is good (P4P800SE). The PSU is not very good (300W Maxpower) but I don't expect that it is problematic. I did not really trust the video card when I bought it, and will probably buy another one to isolate the problem. Thanks for the advice everyone. -- ________________________________________ Sjoerd Bakker ________________________________________ |
#9
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On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 01:02:34 +0200, Sjoerd Bakker
wrote: My computer incidentally and randomly freezes (no mouse and keyboard input and no screen activity) after I installed an Asus (ATI) Radeon 9200SE video card. I don't use the computer for graphics-intensive gaming. I suspect that the Radeon card is the cause of the problems although I can't be sure of that. An update: it appears that the 9200SE has not been the cause of the freezes after all; a GeForce card that I bought and underclocked gave exactly the same problems. The real cause of the problems has probably been a buggy Marvell Yukon LAN driver. Many other people who use the same device and driver (8.35.2.3) have reported lockups as well. I updated the driver today and have had no freezes so far. -- ________________________________________ Sjoerd Bakker ________________________________________ |
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