PC does power off on 3D gaming

I have a problem with a PC system shutting down itself, e.g. by turning
off the power (supply). This is a matter under GNU/Linux (2.6.7 SMP kernel
self-compiled) and Windows XP Pro with Service Pack 2 installed.

The graphics adapter (see below for details) is quite new, coming out of
"exchange under the warranty".

When I put load on the system, e.g. thru 3D-games like Doom3 or
Half-Life(1)/Mods the system tends to turn of power, and just freezing the
image one second before.

Doing only CPU-intensive things like compiling the Linux kernel (with "#
make -j3" for multithreading) the problem does not occure.

Indeed, the system did turn off thrice (3x) on being idle, just running
GNU/Linux and a KDE desktop. (Screen saver could be a cause there...)

It seems to be a problem caused by the graphics adapter, and the more load
there is on it, the sooner this happens. E.g. after starting Doom3 it
takes between 3 up to 15 minutes to occure, with Half-Life(1)/Firearms it
takes up to 60 minutes.

I talked to a friend working at the PC store "next door", he suggests to
exchange the Enermax 4**-Watt-power supply. He tells me that Enermax is
not as reliable in voltage level fluctuations and so on (even on having
spent lots of money on this power unit, last year ago). Any opinion on
this?

Indeed, this could be a cause. Remember, this type of graphics adapter is
supplied by a Y-cable plugged inbetween the card and the power unit. And
there is a lot of other hardware built-in. Here is a list...:

My System consists of following hardware configuration:

ASUS A7M-266D (http://www.asuscom.de/prog/spec.asp?lansg=07&m=a7m266-d)
2* AMD Athlon MP 1600+ (running by recommended 1400MHz)
1* 256MB + 1*512MB unbuffered DDR DIMMs = 768MB total

1* ATI Radeon 9500 (seems to be standard, not pro) with 128MB(???)
graphics RAM
3* Hauppauge TV-cards
1* Ultra DMA 100 IDE-Controller card from Promise
1* ethernet adapter Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd.
RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ (rev 10)

2* CD-burner
1* DVD-ROM drive
4* IDE hard disk drives

1* green LED for displaying power on status *lol*

In case of power supply exchange, e.g. by spending my last money, how
could I calculate the need of energy of my system? How much Watt should
the supply supply? Anybody has a rule of thumb for this?

I would appreciate Your help in this case.

Greetings,
- Stephen

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:36:52 +0100, "Stephen L."
wrote:

I have a problem with a PC system shutting down itself, e.g. by turning
off the power (supply). This is a matter under GNU/Linux (2.6.7 SMP kernel
self-compiled) and Windows XP Pro with Service Pack 2 installed.

The graphics adapter (see below for details) is quite new, coming out of
"exchange under the warranty".

When I put load on the system, e.g. thru 3D-games like Doom3 or
Half-Life(1)/Mods the system tends to turn of power, and just freezing the
image one second before.

Doing only CPU-intensive things like compiling the Linux kernel (with "#
make -j3" for multithreading) the problem does not occure.

Indeed, the system did turn off thrice (3x) on being idle, just running
GNU/Linux and a KDE desktop. (Screen saver could be a cause there...)

It seems to be a problem caused by the graphics adapter, and the more load
there is on it, the sooner this happens. E.g. after starting Doom3 it
takes between 3 up to 15 minutes to occure, with Half-Life(1)/Firearms it
takes up to 60 minutes.

I talked to a friend working at the PC store "next door", he suggests to
exchange the Enermax 4**-Watt-power supply. He tells me that Enermax is
not as reliable in voltage level fluctuations and so on (even on having
spent lots of money on this power unit, last year ago). Any opinion on
this?


Enermax is better than some unbranded generics but it isn't
even capable of sustaining the rated wattage. They rate the
sustained load at 70%, which for 460 of Enermax's "watts"
would be more like 322W rating for an Antec Truepower or
Sparkle. Enermax gained popularity back when CPUs and video
cards didn't use so much power, they looked prettier than
many of the competitor's units and systems didn't use
enough power yet for anyone to really notice the limitations
of their rating system. Today it's more noticable.

Having written that, it can be concluded that this is the
problem, but a true capacity lower than your system actually
needs during heavy gaming could do exactly what you
describe. A problem with the video card itself would more
likely just crash/freeze the game and hang the system, not
turn it off completely unless the card was shorting out,
which would be unlikely, for it to work as much as it does.

Indeed, this could be a cause. Remember, this type of graphics adapter is
supplied by a Y-cable plugged inbetween the card and the power unit. And
there is a lot of other hardware built-in. Here is a list...:

My System consists of following hardware configuration:

ASUS A7M-266D (http://www.asuscom.de/prog/spec.asp?lansg=07&m=a7m266-d)
2* AMD Athlon MP 1600+ (running by recommended 1400MHz)
1* 256MB + 1*512MB unbuffered DDR DIMMs = 768MB total

1* ATI Radeon 9500 (seems to be standard, not pro) with 128MB(???)
graphics RAM
3* Hauppauge TV-cards
1* Ultra DMA 100 IDE-Controller card from Promise
1* ethernet adapter Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd.
RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ (rev 10)

2* CD-burner
1* DVD-ROM drive
4* IDE hard disk drives

1* green LED for displaying power on status *lol*

In case of power supply exchange, e.g. by spending my last money, how
could I calculate the need of energy of my system? How much Watt should
the supply supply? Anybody has a rule of thumb for this?

A good name-brand 420W would probably suffice but I suggest
a Sparkle/Fortron 520W. It's the most bang for the buck,
there's no point in trying to exactly match a PSU's wattage
to the load, there should be some reserve power. PC Power &
Cooling makes some nice units too but they're more than a
little pricey for the higher wattage models. The
Sparkle/Fortron can be had for about $75-85, but that'll
only get 410W from PC Power & cooling or cost over twice the
price for 510W.

http://www.axiontech.com/prdt.php?src=FG&item=57575
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...ion=17-104-968
http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/prices/


You might take multimeter readings to see if the voltages
are dropping, that's what I expect is happening to your
system currently, either that or the Enermax's fan speed is
too low and it's overheating.

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:47:44 GMT, kony wrote:

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:36:52 +0100, "Stephen L."
wrote:

I have a problem with a PC system shutting down itself, e.g. by turning
off the power (supply). [snip]

Enermax is better than some unbranded generics but it isn't
even capable of sustaining the rated wattage. They rate the
sustained load at 70%, which for 460 of Enermax's "watts"
would be more like 322W rating for an Antec Truepower or
Sparkle. Enermax gained popularity back when CPUs and video
cards didn't use so much power, they looked prettier than
many of the competitor's units and systems didn't use
enough power yet for anyone to really notice the limitations
of their rating system. Today it's more noticable.

OK, interesting to hear!


Having written that, it can be concluded that this is the
problem, but a true capacity lower than your system actually
needs during heavy gaming could do exactly what you
describe. A problem with the video card itself would more
likely just crash/freeze the game and hang the system, not
turn it off completely unless the card was shorting out,
which would be unlikely, for it to work as much as it does.

I join in this subject.

In case of power supply exchange, e.g. by spending my last money, how
could I calculate the need of energy of my system? How much Watt should
the supply supply? Anybody has a rule of thumb for this?

A good name-brand 420W would probably suffice but I suggest
a Sparkle/Fortron 520W. It's the most bang for the buck,
there's no point in trying to exactly match a PSU's wattage
to the load, there should be some reserve power. PC Power &
Cooling makes some nice units too but they're more than a
little pricey for the higher wattage models. The
Sparkle/Fortron can be had for about $75-85, but that'll
only get 410W from PC Power & cooling or cost over twice the
price for 510W.

OK, thanks for the hints, I will also talk to this friend at the store and
looking for what they got in town.

http://www.axiontech.com/prdt.php?src=FG&item=57575
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...ion=17-104-968
http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/prices/


You might take multimeter readings to see if the voltages
are dropping, that's what I expect is happening to your
system currently, either that or the Enermax's fan speed is
too low and it's overheating.

Hey, You are right, I also just remembered the SMBus/Hardware Sensor
monitoring. Maybe I can figure out something in a logfile, just before it
disables my system... could be a try.

Thanks for answering,
- Stephen

The MINIMUM you can get by with, with all that hardware running in your
system, is the Antec 550 Watt True Power power supply. The Antec is very
conservatively rated and rock stable. I'm very surprised your system didn't
crash sooner.

--
DaveW



"Stephen L." wrote in message
news
I have a problem with a PC system shutting down itself, e.g. by turning
off the power (supply). This is a matter under GNU/Linux (2.6.7 SMP kernel
self-compiled) and Windows XP Pro with Service Pack 2 installed.

The graphics adapter (see below for details) is quite new, coming out of
"exchange under the warranty".

When I put load on the system, e.g. thru 3D-games like Doom3 or
Half-Life(1)/Mods the system tends to turn of power, and just freezing the
image one second before.

Doing only CPU-intensive things like compiling the Linux kernel (with "#
make -j3" for multithreading) the problem does not occure.

Indeed, the system did turn off thrice (3x) on being idle, just running
GNU/Linux and a KDE desktop. (Screen saver could be a cause there...)

It seems to be a problem caused by the graphics adapter, and the more load
there is on it, the sooner this happens. E.g. after starting Doom3 it
takes between 3 up to 15 minutes to occure, with Half-Life(1)/Firearms it
takes up to 60 minutes.

I talked to a friend working at the PC store "next door", he suggests to
exchange the Enermax 4**-Watt-power supply. He tells me that Enermax is
not as reliable in voltage level fluctuations and so on (even on having
spent lots of money on this power unit, last year ago). Any opinion on
this?

Indeed, this could be a cause. Remember, this type of graphics adapter is
supplied by a Y-cable plugged inbetween the card and the power unit. And
there is a lot of other hardware built-in. Here is a list...:

My System consists of following hardware configuration:

ASUS A7M-266D (http://www.asuscom.de/prog/spec.asp?lansg=07&m=a7m266-d)
2* AMD Athlon MP 1600+ (running by recommended 1400MHz)
1* 256MB + 1*512MB unbuffered DDR DIMMs = 768MB total

1* ATI Radeon 9500 (seems to be standard, not pro) with 128MB(???)
graphics RAM
3* Hauppauge TV-cards
1* Ultra DMA 100 IDE-Controller card from Promise
1* ethernet adapter Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+
(rev 10)

2* CD-burner
1* DVD-ROM drive
4* IDE hard disk drives

1* green LED for displaying power on status *lol*

In case of power supply exchange, e.g. by spending my last money, how
could I calculate the need of energy of my system? How much Watt should
the supply supply? Anybody has a rule of thumb for this?

I would appreciate Your help in this case.

Greetings,
- Stephen

Stephen L.:
The graphics adapter (see below for details) is quite new, coming out
of "exchange under the warranty".

I talked to a friend working at the PC store "next door", he suggests
to exchange the Enermax 4**-Watt-power supply.

1* ATI Radeon 9500 (seems to be standard, not pro) with 128MB(???)

I don't know about the Radeons but Nvidia cards will give you an error
message if they don't receive enough power, then they automatically
throttle back. Before spending time & money on a PS, I would suspect the
card since it was a warranty replacement. Many companies do not give you a
'new' card under warranty replacement, they will give you a refurb or a
card that has been returned by someone else and tested ok.

Ask your buddy to let you borrow a power supply and see if that solves the
problem.
--
Mac Cool

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 23:59:36 +0100, "Stephen L."
wrote:


Enermax is better than some unbranded generics but it isn't
even capable of sustaining the rated wattage. They rate the
sustained load at 70%, which for 460 of Enermax's "watts"
would be more like 322W rating for an Antec Truepower or
Sparkle. Enermax gained popularity back when CPUs and video
cards didn't use so much power, they looked prettier than
many of the competitor's units and systems didn't use
enough power yet for anyone to really notice the limitations
of their rating system. Today it's more noticable.

OK, interesting to hear!


Having written that, it can be concluded that this is the
problem, but a true capacity lower than your system actually
needs during heavy gaming could do exactly what you
describe. A problem with the video card itself would more
likely just crash/freeze the game and hang the system, not
turn it off completely unless the card was shorting out,
which would be unlikely, for it to work as much as it does.

I join in this subject.

Well I MEANT above, "having written that, it CAN'T be
concluded that this is the problem (yet)". It does seem
quite suspect but taking voltage measurements is a first
step towards identifying if it's problematic, and if no
other parts seem to suggest they're faulty all that's left
(unless you had a scope to measure ripple) would be trying
another PSU in it's place.



In case of power supply exchange, e.g. by spending my last money, how
could I calculate the need of energy of my system? How much Watt should
the supply supply? Anybody has a rule of thumb for this?

A good name-brand 420W would probably suffice but I suggest
a Sparkle/Fortron 520W. It's the most bang for the buck,
there's no point in trying to exactly match a PSU's wattage
to the load, there should be some reserve power. PC Power &
Cooling makes some nice units too but they're more than a
little pricey for the higher wattage models. The
Sparkle/Fortron can be had for about $75-85, but that'll
only get 410W from PC Power & cooling or cost over twice the
price for 510W.

OK, thanks for the hints, I will also talk to this friend at the store and
looking for what they got in town.

http://www.axiontech.com/prdt.php?src=FG&item=57575
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...ion=17-104-968
http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/prices/


You might take multimeter readings to see if the voltages
are dropping, that's what I expect is happening to your
system currently, either that or the Enermax's fan speed is
too low and it's overheating.

Hey, You are right, I also just remembered the SMBus/Hardware Sensor
monitoring. Maybe I can figure out something in a logfile, just before it
disables my system... could be a try.

A temporary resolution to keep system gaming in the interim
might be reducing the CPU and/or video card clock speed a
bit.

snip

OK, thanks for the hints, I will also talk to this friend at the store and
looking for what they got in town.

http://www.axiontech.com/prdt.php?src=FG&item=57575
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...ion=17-104-968
http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/prices/


You might take multimeter readings to see if the voltages
are dropping, that's what I expect is happening to your
system currently, either that or the Enermax's fan speed is
too low and it's overheating.

Hey, You are right, I also just remembered the SMBus/Hardware Sensor
monitoring. Maybe I can figure out something in a logfile, just before it
disables my system... could be a try.

Also in winXP disable the silly,"Automatic System Restart"
My computer/Right click/Properties/Advanced/Startup and
recovery/Settings.

And also here,
http://aumha.org/win5/a/shtdwnxp.php
It may not even be a power supply problem.

HTH



--
Free Windows/PC help,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html
remove obvious to reply
email
Free original songs to download and,"BURN" :O)
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/nomessiahsmusic.htm

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 15:48:05 +0000, Shep© wrote:

snip

Also in winXP disable the silly,"Automatic System Restart"
My computer/Right click/Properties/Advanced/Startup and
recovery/Settings.

Yes, I did this before.


And also here,
http://aumha.org/win5/a/shtdwnxp.php
It may not even be a power supply problem.

As I wrote, I experience the same with Linux, so it could/should not be
the problem.


HTH


Thanks, nevertheless, for answering
- Stephen