warehouse club warning

"Olin K. McDaniel" wrote in message
...

After reading and rereading much the same line here without this point
being injected, I want to add something. Here where I live (in SC),
this town has two Wal-Mart stores and one Sams Club. I've never seen
Ilford paper in either of the Wal-Mart stores here. Further, the
local Sam's club ONLY sells the one labeled "Ilford Galerie
Professional Injet Photo Range Smooth Gloss Paper", I have never seen
the pearl type in there. And I've been buying the smooth gloss paper
from them for several years now. It is always in the same packaging,
and is marked as 250 gsm (or grams/sq.meter). I've never test weighed
in out of the dozens of boxes I've used, but I have checked its
thickness regularly with a dial caliper, and it consistently falls in
the same range from box to box.

Of some interest to me, at least, I tried to find their smooth pearl
paper there, and have been told they do not carry it. And I even
tried to find it listed on their web site, some months ago, but it was
not listed. So, how did you manage to get some from them at all? I
ended up ordering it from B&H Photo, and they were out of the 100
sheet boxes, and had to buy it in 250 sheet box.

Just don't understand the furor.

Olin McDaniel


a) as I said in the original post, the pearl is available via the web site --
not the local club stores. Recent boxes of smooth gloss even contain a flyer
suggesting you go to the website for the pearl. Just go to the web site and
search for 'ilford'. They'll be happy to ups you a pack -- though as of
tonight, it looks like the 8.5x11 pearl has dried up and only the 4x6 pearl is
listed.

b) the 'furor' is this: if you buy an Ilford sample pack, or buy Ilford smooth
gloss or smooth pearl from a photo supply shop, or look on the Ilford web site,
what you get from any of those sources is not the same as what you bought at
sams -- even though there is only one type described on the Ilford web site and
only one type described in the sample pack. Both have exactly the same name,
but the sams version is 250gsm while the Ilford web site [and photo supply
shops, and sample packs] only have a 280gsm version [with the exact same name].

If you are happy with the 250, that's great -- but it isn't the same as what is
sold elsewhere.

Complaints about various countries health systems not withstanding, that's the
furor.

Yes, sadly a lot of the corporate interest I was speaking of come from
"south of the border", as we say up here...

Not only does US corporate healthcare and insurance want to take a chunk
of the Canadian action, but more importantly, they want to prove
nationalized health care won't work, because if it was working smoothly
in Canada (and it ran pretty well years ago) Americans would want a
similar system, and that's the real threat to those corporations.

Every time Canada shows something works in spite of the opposition to it
in the US, it makes American corporate or political interests have to
explain things, which they find embarrassing and difficult to excuse
themselves for. (for instance, our gun control regulations result in
1/10th the gun related deaths and accidents here per capita - and I bet
it would be even lower if we weren't right on top of the US) so the NRA
likes to portray the people of Canada as being ruled under a "communist"
government where we have no control over our lives, and if we ever
wished an uprising we couldn't have one, because only the government has
fire arms.

We all know that the US government would just sit still and allow a
group of militia to "take over" the US government any time they wanted
to, because they had guns, and I guess the US government only has frisbees?

Art

measekite wrote:



Arthur Entlich wrote:

I'm betting you weren't using the Canada healthcare system 15-20 years
ago, when it worked quite well. It has been sabotaged by corporate
and political interest which wish to prove it doesn't work, and they
have almost done so. But as long as there are people like me who were
around when it did work, we can attest to the lie that it can't.



Hey Canada does not have a monopoly on corporate and political
imbiciles. I think we invented them in the US. You guys just copied
them. ;-)


Art

Pavel Dvorak wrote:

Matt Silberstein ) writes:

[lot nuked]


Oh, you mean socialized medicine? Doesn't work. Many countries
try it,



Works well in Costa Rica and Canada.




It's really outside the comp.periphs.printers topics, but I cannot
resist:

Canadian health care system does not work. If you have to endure many
months of pain before you can get an 'elective' surgery, like a hip
replacement or fixing a herniated disk, or have to helplessly wait for
diagnosis and then cancer treatment knowing full well that it may be
too late
when your turn in the hospital comes - and the law does not alow you
to get it done fast privately if you want and can pay, then something
is wrong, isn't there?

(Well, unless you subscribe to the idea that if two people are drowning
and you know you can save just one of them, you let both of them drown,
because saving one would be unfair to the other you could not save.)
Canadian health care system is OK for you if you a

(a) rich enough to buy any urgent treatment outside the country, or
(b) a high level politician or athlete who gets an immediate
attention, or
(c) generally healthy and all you need is to buy some aspirin from
time to time.

Pavel

[rest nuked]

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 04:40:45 GMT, "SamSez"
wrote:


"Olin K. McDaniel" wrote in message
. ..

After reading and rereading much the same line here without this point
being injected, I want to add something. Here where I live (in SC),
this town has two Wal-Mart stores and one Sams Club. I've never seen
Ilford paper in either of the Wal-Mart stores here. Further, the
local Sam's club ONLY sells the one labeled "Ilford Galerie
Professional Injet Photo Range Smooth Gloss Paper", I have never seen
the pearl type in there. And I've been buying the smooth gloss paper
from them for several years now. It is always in the same packaging,
and is marked as 250 gsm (or grams/sq.meter). I've never test weighed
in out of the dozens of boxes I've used, but I have checked its
thickness regularly with a dial caliper, and it consistently falls in
the same range from box to box.

Of some interest to me, at least, I tried to find their smooth pearl
paper there, and have been told they do not carry it. And I even
tried to find it listed on their web site, some months ago, but it was
not listed. So, how did you manage to get some from them at all? I
ended up ordering it from B&H Photo, and they were out of the 100
sheet boxes, and had to buy it in 250 sheet box.

Just don't understand the furor.

Olin McDaniel


a) as I said in the original post, the pearl is available via the web site --
not the local club stores. Recent boxes of smooth gloss even contain a flyer
suggesting you go to the website for the pearl. Just go to the web site and
search for 'ilford'. They'll be happy to ups you a pack -- though as of
tonight, it looks like the 8.5x11 pearl has dried up and only the 4x6 pearl is
listed.

b) the 'furor' is this: if you buy an Ilford sample pack, or buy Ilford smooth
gloss or smooth pearl from a photo supply shop, or look on the Ilford web site,
what you get from any of those sources is not the same as what you bought at
sams -- even though there is only one type described on the Ilford web site and
only one type described in the sample pack. Both have exactly the same name,
but the sams version is 250gsm while the Ilford web site [and photo supply
shops, and sample packs] only have a 280gsm version [with the exact same name].

If you are happy with the 250, that's great -- but it isn't the same as what is
sold elsewhere.



OK, I'll concede one thing and not the other. I was unable to find
the 8X10 Ilford Pearl on Sam's Club web site, when I tried to buy
some, admittedly not knowing there were two grades. That's when I
ordered it from B&H. You seem to admit not being able to get it from
Sam's even yourself.

Now the concession, after you called my attention to the different
B.W. (Basis Weight in the paper manufacturing business, with which I'm
very familiar) - I looked on my various boxes of the smooth and all
from Sam's show 250 g/sm. And the box of the pearl which I ordered
from B&H shows 280 g/sm. So, unless you look very carefully at the
boxes, it is easy to be hoodwinked - BUT they DO show the difference
on the boxes. There are a couple of other subtle differences on the
boxes, but unless you were alerted to look, you might not notice.
Just to confirm this, I compared notes with another local buyer of
Ilford papers, and he had a box of the smooth that he'd bought at a
retailer and it showed 280 g/sm, whereas all mine from Sam's show 250
g/sm. Another interesting difference that we had earlier spotted, his
box showed it came from a Switzerland source, whereas the Sam's Club
product shows it came from a British source. Gotta look close on the
back of the boxes, to see this.

As to being "happy with the 250", I'll simply state it's been the best
of any brand I've ever used so far on my Canon i950. There may be
bettersmooth papers, but I've not found them. The Konica brand (later
to be rebranded under Office Depot's name) is a close second, but now
having found this Ilford - I'm staying here with it, and it's much
cheaper than that from Office Depot as well.

Olin McDaniel

Where I live it was 4/6/2005 4:58 PM, when Olin K. McDaniel wrote:

There are a couple of other subtle differences on the boxes, but
unless you were alerted to look, you might not notice. Just to
confirm this, I compared notes with another local buyer of Ilford
papers, and he had a box of the smooth that he'd bought at a
retailer and it showed 280 g/sm, whereas all mine from Sam's show
250 g/sm. Another interesting difference that we had earlier
spotted, his box showed it came from a Switzerland source, whereas
the Sam's Club product shows it came from a British source. Gotta
look close on the back of the boxes, to see this.

My Sam's Club Ilford is 250/gsm and says "Made in Japan" on the back
of the box. Appears Ilford has contracted it's paper mfg to several
sources.

--Ben

"Pavel Dvorak" wrote in message
...

Matt Silberstein ) writes:

[lot nuked]

Oh, you mean socialized medicine? Doesn't work. Many countries try it,

Works well in Costa Rica and Canada.


It's really outside the comp.periphs.printers topics, but I cannot resist:

Canadian health care system does not work. If you have to endure many
months of pain before you can get an 'elective' surgery, like a hip
replacement or fixing a herniated disk, or have to helplessly wait for
diagnosis and then cancer treatment knowing full well that it may be too
late
when your turn in the hospital comes - and the law does not alow you
to get it done fast privately if you want and can pay, then something
is wrong, isn't there?

(Well, unless you subscribe to the idea that if two people are drowning
and you know you can save just one of them, you let both of them drown,
because saving one would be unfair to the other you could not save.)

Canadian health care system is OK for you if you a

(a) rich enough to buy any urgent treatment outside the country, or
(b) a high level politician or athlete who gets an immediate attention, or
(c) generally healthy and all you need is to buy some aspirin
from time to time.

Pavel

[rest nuked]

I cant let that go either. We have excellent care when you get in. That is
WHEN you get in. Good post here I like your analogy about the drowning.
The RCMP get in ASAP, politicians get in ASAP, hockey players get in ASAP
and WCB claims get in ASAP and people who can afford it go to the US. The
average Joe waits. My wife has been waiting 8 months to see a specialist
about an ear problem. We have friends in the US who say she would be in
under a week. I would pay for that service here if the communists in power
would let me. But alas like the only other 2 jurisdiction in the world,
North Korea and Cuba, we are not allowed private health care.

gary wrote:
"Pavel Dvorak" wrote in message
...

Matt Silberstein ) writes:

[lot nuked]
[...]
Canadian health care system is OK for you if you a

(a) rich enough to buy any urgent treatment outside the country, or
(b) a high level politician or athlete who gets an immediate attention, or
(c) generally healthy and all you need is to buy some aspirin
from time to time.

Pavel


I can't let that go either. The same is true in the USA, too. Except
that it's worse. There, many people never get in: they don't have
insurance, and don't qualify for medicaid.

I cant let that go either. We have excellent care when you get in. That is
WHEN you get in. Good post here I like your analogy about the drowning.
The RCMP get in ASAP, politicians get in ASAP, hockey players get in ASAP
and WCB claims get in ASAP and people who can afford it go to the US. The
average Joe waits. My wife has been waiting 8 months to see a specialist
about an ear problem. We have friends in the US who say she would be in
under a week.

And in the USA she might not get the best care, as the insurer might not
pay for it - depends entirely on your insurance plan. That is, if she
had insurance. Which might cost you upwards of $3,000/year - each.
Depending on how much of it your employer pays. (Figures from my sister
and brother-in-law, who live in California, where you can get excellent
care, even you aren't a film star, if you are properly insured, or have
loadsadough.)

I would pay for that service here if the communists in power
would let me. [...]

The waiting times increased because back in the late 80s and early 90s
medical school places were cut by 20% so as to save money so that the
feds and the provinces could cut taxes - you remember those wonderful
tax cuts, don't you? In my case, it came to all of $250/year. Wow! That
bought ten 2-4s of beer back then. What a bargain!

Those scam artists cut a whole lot of other things, and the effects of
those cuts are beginning to bite now, too.

BTW, the USA spends about twice as much one health care as we do in
Canada, measured as percent of GDP. And the leading cause of personal
bankruptcies in the USA is medical bills.

I agree our system needs improvement, but it is still preferable to the
US system. Now, if only my fellow Canucks had sense enough to be willing
to pay for it, ie, accept a tax increase. But my breath holding am I
not, as in the face blue becoming wish I not.

Personal anecdote: My daughter was trained as a nurse at the cost of my
fellow taxpayers. Unfortunately, that was at the time when those health
care cuts began, so she could not get a job in Canada. She went to
Texas, where she earns about 30% more than if she were in Canada.
However, she tells me that there's a nursing shortage in Texas, too. Go
figure.

Since you want to pay for private medical, go down and find out what it
really costs, and the quality of it. (I already know, because my family
lives in the states, and the costs are unbelievable, particularly if
hospitalization is required).

But your problem is simple to get around. You might even get part of in
reimbursed by your provincial gov't, but if not, so what, you say you
want to pay out of pocket, right?

So, why are you allowing your wife to suffer with her ear problem when
the solution is a few miles down the road? Are there "communists" at
the border who won't let the two of you go to the US and pay? Maybe you
can stay with your friends down there, so you don't have any lodging costs.

Art

gary wrote:

"Pavel Dvorak" wrote in message
...

Matt Silberstein ) writes:

[lot nuked]


Oh, you mean socialized medicine? Doesn't work. Many countries try it,

Works well in Costa Rica and Canada.


It's really outside the comp.periphs.printers topics, but I cannot resist:

Canadian health care system does not work. If you have to endure many
months of pain before you can get an 'elective' surgery, like a hip
replacement or fixing a herniated disk, or have to helplessly wait for
diagnosis and then cancer treatment knowing full well that it may be too
late
when your turn in the hospital comes - and the law does not alow you
to get it done fast privately if you want and can pay, then something
is wrong, isn't there?

(Well, unless you subscribe to the idea that if two people are drowning
and you know you can save just one of them, you let both of them drown,
because saving one would be unfair to the other you could not save.)

Canadian health care system is OK for you if you a

(a) rich enough to buy any urgent treatment outside the country, or
(b) a high level politician or athlete who gets an immediate attention, or
(c) generally healthy and all you need is to buy some aspirin
from time to time.

Pavel

[rest nuked]


I cant let that go either. We have excellent care when you get in. That is
WHEN you get in. Good post here I like your analogy about the drowning.
The RCMP get in ASAP, politicians get in ASAP, hockey players get in ASAP
and WCB claims get in ASAP and people who can afford it go to the US. The
average Joe waits. My wife has been waiting 8 months to see a specialist
about an ear problem. We have friends in the US who say she would be in
under a week. I would pay for that service here if the communists in power
would let me. But alas like the only other 2 jurisdiction in the world,
North Korea and Cuba, we are not allowed private health care.

Arthur Entlich wrote:

Since you want to pay for private medical, go down and find out what
it really costs, and the quality of it. (I already know, because my
family lives in the states, and the costs are unbelievable,
particularly if hospitalization is required).

But your problem is simple to get around. You might even get part of
in reimbursed by your provincial gov't, but if not, so what, you say
you want to pay out of pocket, right?

So, why are you allowing your wife to suffer with her ear problem when
the solution is a few miles down the road? Are there "communists" at
the border who won't let the two of you go to the US and pay? Maybe
you can stay with your friends down there, so you don't have any
lodging costs.

Art

gary wrote:

"Pavel Dvorak" wrote in message
...

Matt Silberstein ) writes:

[lot nuked]


Oh, you mean socialized medicine? Doesn't work. Many countries
try it,


Works well in Costa Rica and Canada.


It's really outside the comp.periphs.printers topics, but I cannot
resist:

Canadian health care system does not work. If you have to endure many
months of pain before you can get an 'elective' surgery, like a hip
replacement or fixing a herniated disk, or have to helplessly wait for
diagnosis and then cancer treatment knowing full well that it may be
too late
when your turn in the hospital comes - and the law does not alow you
to get it done fast privately if you want and can pay, then something
is wrong, isn't there?

(Well, unless you subscribe to the idea that if two people are drowning
and you know you can save just one of them, you let both of them drown,
because saving one would be unfair to the other you could not save.)

Canadian health care system is OK for you if you a

(a) rich enough to buy any urgent treatment outside the country, or
(b) a high level politician or athlete who gets an immediate
attention, or
(c) generally healthy and all you need is to buy some aspirin
from time to time.

Pavel

[rest nuked]



I cant let that go either. We have excellent care when you get in.
That is WHEN you get in. Good post here I like your analogy about
the drowning. The RCMP get in ASAP, politicians get in ASAP, hockey
players get in ASAP and WCB claims get in ASAP and people who can
afford it go to the US. The average Joe waits. My wife has been
waiting 8 months to see a specialist about an ear problem. We have
friends in the US who say she would be in under a week. I would pay
for that service here if the communists in power would let me. But
alas like the only other 2 jurisdiction in the world, North Korea and
Cuba, we are not allowed private health care.



Pretty soon, the powers to be will require a passport for those going
to Canada to get back to the US. If that happens it is said Canada
will require the same. This is another pain in the ass for the
occassional traveler.

measekite wrote:


Arthur Entlich wrote:

Since you want to pay for private medical, go down and find out what
it really costs, and the quality of it. (I already know, because my
family lives in the states, and the costs are unbelievable,
particularly if hospitalization is required).

But your problem is simple to get around. You might even get part of
in reimbursed by your provincial gov't, but if not, so what, you say
you want to pay out of pocket, right?

So, why are you allowing your wife to suffer with her ear problem when
the solution is a few miles down the road? Are there "communists" at
the border who won't let the two of you go to the US and pay? Maybe
you can stay with your friends down there, so you don't have any
lodging costs.

Art

gary wrote:

"Pavel Dvorak" wrote in message
...

Matt Silberstein ) writes:

[lot nuked]


Oh, you mean socialized medicine? Doesn't work. Many countries
try it,



Works well in Costa Rica and Canada.


It's really outside the comp.periphs.printers topics, but I cannot
resist:

Canadian health care system does not work. If you have to endure many
months of pain before you can get an 'elective' surgery, like a hip
replacement or fixing a herniated disk, or have to helplessly wait for
diagnosis and then cancer treatment knowing full well that it may be
too late
when your turn in the hospital comes - and the law does not alow you
to get it done fast privately if you want and can pay, then something
is wrong, isn't there?

(Well, unless you subscribe to the idea that if two people are drowning
and you know you can save just one of them, you let both of them drown,
because saving one would be unfair to the other you could not save.)

Canadian health care system is OK for you if you a

(a) rich enough to buy any urgent treatment outside the country, or
(b) a high level politician or athlete who gets an immediate
attention, or
(c) generally healthy and all you need is to buy some aspirin
from time to time.

Pavel

[rest nuked]




I cant let that go either. We have excellent care when you get in.
That is WHEN you get in. Good post here I like your analogy about
the drowning. The RCMP get in ASAP, politicians get in ASAP, hockey
players get in ASAP and WCB claims get in ASAP and people who can
afford it go to the US. The average Joe waits. My wife has been
waiting 8 months to see a specialist about an ear problem. We have
friends in the US who say she would be in under a week. I would pay
for that service here if the communists in power would let me. But
alas like the only other 2 jurisdiction in the world, North Korea and
Cuba, we are not allowed private health care.



Pretty soon, the powers to be will require a passport for those going
to Canada to get back to the US. If that happens it is said Canada
will require the same. This is another pain in the ass for the
occassional traveler.

I think they just did, i.e., require a passport to
get back into the U.S. Probably illegal, unless
they put it under some emergency act, but they may
get away with it. Wouldn't make any difference,
since any halfway able and intelligent person
could easily get back to the U.S. from Canada
without going through any kind of official port.

Certainly the U.S. can't require a passport to
leave the U.S. People seem to forget that a U.S.
passport is just an official introduction of a
person to another government. There has never
been any limit on a U.S. citizen leaving the U.S.
I doubt that the U.S. would ever be able to
implement a requirement of any sort to leave the
U.S. Keeping people out is a bit different.

Oh yes, to keep on track, Canada also has
warehouses. What country doesn't?

I would like to be able to pay for it here. Why should I not be able to if
I want the service? If a doctor or hospital wants to set up privately, what
business is that of the state to say no? I'm not saying I want to pay out
of pocket but I would like the option to buy the insurance with possibly a
deductible. Canada is only one of 3 countries in the world that do not
allow the individual this option.


"Arthur Entlich" wrote in message
news:iPu5e.8637$yV3.7959@clgrps12...
Since you want to pay for private medical, go down and find out what it
really costs, and the quality of it. (I already know, because my family
lives in the states, and the costs are unbelievable, particularly if
hospitalization is required).

But your problem is simple to get around. You might even get part of in
reimbursed by your provincial gov't, but if not, so what, you say you want
to pay out of pocket, right?

So, why are you allowing your wife to suffer with her ear problem when the
solution is a few miles down the road? Are there "communists" at the
border who won't let the two of you go to the US and pay? Maybe you can
stay with your friends down there, so you don't have any lodging costs.

Art

gary wrote:

"Pavel Dvorak" wrote in message
...

Matt Silberstein ) writes:

[lot nuked]


Oh, you mean socialized medicine? Doesn't work. Many countries try
it,

Works well in Costa Rica and Canada.


It's really outside the comp.periphs.printers topics, but I cannot
resist:

Canadian health care system does not work. If you have to endure many
months of pain before you can get an 'elective' surgery, like a hip
replacement or fixing a herniated disk, or have to helplessly wait for
diagnosis and then cancer treatment knowing full well that it may be too
late
when your turn in the hospital comes - and the law does not alow you
to get it done fast privately if you want and can pay, then something
is wrong, isn't there?

(Well, unless you subscribe to the idea that if two people are drowning
and you know you can save just one of them, you let both of them drown,
because saving one would be unfair to the other you could not save.)

Canadian health care system is OK for you if you a

(a) rich enough to buy any urgent treatment outside the country, or
(b) a high level politician or athlete who gets an immediate attention,
or
(c) generally healthy and all you need is to buy some aspirin
from time to time.

Pavel

[rest nuked]


I cant let that go either. We have excellent care when you get in. That
is WHEN you get in. Good post here I like your analogy about the
drowning. The RCMP get in ASAP, politicians get in ASAP, hockey players
get in ASAP and WCB claims get in ASAP and people who can afford it go to
the US. The average Joe waits. My wife has been waiting 8 months to see
a specialist about an ear problem. We have friends in the US who say she
would be in under a week. I would pay for that service here if the
communists in power would let me. But alas like the only other 2
jurisdiction in the world, North Korea and Cuba, we are not allowed
private health care.