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#1
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Are RAMsinks worth a damn?
I have a Sapphire 9800Pro/128MB.
I'll be installing an Arctic-Cooler VGA Silencer this weekend mainly so I can OC the **** out of the core. Do RAMsinks really help at all as far as OC'ing the memory? I already have pretty good air cooling in the case and am wondering if they would be worth installing. Thanks for any opinions, Rick |
#2
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"dorkus.erectus" wrote:
I have a Sapphire 9800Pro/128MB. I'll be installing an Arctic-Cooler VGA Silencer this weekend mainly so I can OC the **** out of the core. Do RAMsinks really help at all as far as OC'ing the memory? I already have pretty good air cooling in the case and am wondering if they would be worth installing. Thanks for any opinions, Rick Yes, it's worth it. I was able to OC my memory on my Ti4600 another 30Mghz. From 720 to 750. Added 125 points to my 3DMark scrores. Card runs cooler too. |
#3
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Its largely a placebo effect for mainboard memory:
This type of memory does not usally fail because it is hot. It fails because you are shortening the read-hold-write cycles so far that the memory flip-flops do not have enough time to get to a stable state, and start to lose data. So its a timing issue, not a heat issue, and the memory is never too hot to touch (try it and see). A blue anodized 'heat spreader' is just a good looking wrapper to make your memory look nice. Cool for window PCs, but thats about it. For graphic memory, its perhaps less clearcut, because this grade of memory *does* get somewhat hot, because the same memory bits are constantly and rapidly accessed. As a rule of thumb, if a chip gets too hot to touch when it is being max stable OC'ed, then it is being limited by heat, not timing (max stable surface temp of modern silicon is around 60-70 degC - too hot to touch comfortably). The memory on my 9800 pro does not get this hot, so I assumed it would not benefit from cooling, and didnt bother with ramsinks. There is variability in memory, and yours may be different - touch it and see is the best advice. if its too hot for you to be able to comfortably press your finger down on the chip and leave it, then that chip's performance may be limited by heat. If its simply warm (40-50degC) when you OC it to just below the point where it fails, then heat is not a factor in that failure. the biggest effect on additional performance by far will be the arctic cooler (+25% better on my rig in terms of clocks, but in real terms, its a case of more constant frame rates than faster frame rates). The law of dimishing returns will certainly kick in for the ramsinks, and will be at best, not noticeable (0- 5% are the sort of figures I hear about on the NGs). 720 to 750 seems like its within this ballpark, and I'd spend the money elsewhere if performance is the main concern. Small 3DMark gains are a moot point. I got 100 3DMarks just by moving from cat 4.4 to 4.5. I didnt notice the extra perfrormance, but at least it was free S EGA wrote: "dorkus.erectus" wrote: I have a Sapphire 9800Pro/128MB. I'll be installing an Arctic-Cooler VGA Silencer this weekend mainly so I can OC the **** out of the core. Do RAMsinks really help at all as far as OC'ing the memory? I already have pretty good air cooling in the case and am wondering if they would be worth installing. Thanks for any opinions, Rick Yes, it's worth it. I was able to OC my memory on my Ti4600 another 30Mghz. From 720 to 750. Added 125 points to my 3DMark scrores. Card runs cooler too. |
#4
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"Sham B" wrote in message t.net... Its largely a placebo effect for mainboard memory: This type of memory does not usally fail because it is hot. It fails because you are shortening the read-hold-write cycles so far that the memory flip-flops do not have enough time to get to a stable state, and start to lose data. So its a timing issue, not a heat issue, and the memory is never too hot to touch (try it and see). A blue anodized 'heat spreader' is just a good looking wrapper to make your memory look nice. Cool for window PCs, but thats about it. For graphic memory, its perhaps less clearcut, because this grade of memory *does* get somewhat hot, because the same memory bits are constantly and rapidly accessed. As a rule of thumb, if a chip gets too hot to touch when it is being max stable OC'ed, then it is being limited by heat, not timing (max stable surface temp of modern silicon is around 60-70 degC - too hot to touch comfortably). The memory on my 9800 pro does not get this hot, so I assumed it would not benefit from cooling, and didnt bother with ramsinks. There is variability in memory, and yours may be different - touch it and see is the best advice. if its too hot for you to be able to comfortably press your finger down on the chip and leave it, then that chip's performance may be limited by heat. If its simply warm (40-50degC) when you OC it to just below the point where it fails, then heat is not a factor in that failure. the biggest effect on additional performance by far will be the arctic cooler (+25% better on my rig in terms of clocks, but in real terms, its a case of more constant frame rates than faster frame rates). The law of dimishing returns will certainly kick in for the ramsinks, and will be at best, not noticeable (0- 5% are the sort of figures I hear about on the NGs). 720 to 750 seems like its within this ballpark, and I'd spend the money elsewhere if performance is the main concern. Small 3DMark gains are a moot point. I got 100 3DMarks just by moving from cat 4.4 to 4.5. I didnt notice the extra perfrormance, but at least it was free S EGA wrote: "dorkus.erectus" wrote: I have a Sapphire 9800Pro/128MB. I'll be installing an Arctic-Cooler VGA Silencer this weekend mainly so I can OC the **** out of the core. Do RAMsinks really help at all as far as OC'ing the memory? I already have pretty good air cooling in the case and am wondering if they would be worth installing. Thanks for any opinions, Rick Yes, it's worth it. I was able to OC my memory on my Ti4600 another 30Mghz. From 720 to 750. Added 125 points to my 3DMark scrores. Card runs cooler too. A MOS transistor has a maximum operating frequency. The maximum operating frequency drops as you increase temperature, even if it does not burn your fingers. A MOS device at -40 degrees is faster than the same transistor at -39 degrees. Is it a timing issue or a heat issue!!? It is the maximum operating frequency issue that is a function of temperature. If the chip temperature is much higher than the case air temperature, it is very beneficial to add a heat sink since the difference in temperature results in heat transfer and makes the chip cooler. On the other hand, if the chip is almost at the case air temperature, a heat sink is not going to make much difference. In fact, in such cases, if the sink is not mounted perfectly, it may actually result in an increase in temperature by impeding the heat transfer. I have got the impression, from my card, that overclocking the graphics DDR does not improve the fps as much as overclocking the core does. That may be why some online overclocking guides I have seen suggest to overclock the core first and find its max, and then, overclock the DDR. They both generate heat and contribute to increasing the temperature of the case. They both use the same case air to cool down. If you overclock your DDR too much, you will have to reduce your core frequency to get stable, and vise versa. Overall, I agree with you that adding a heatsink to graphics DDR may not give you as much improvement for the money you spend. But, I suspect, this may vary depending on card and case cooling. Regards |
#5
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"dorkus.erectus" wrote in
: I have a Sapphire 9800Pro/128MB. I'll be installing an Arctic-Cooler VGA Silencer this weekend mainly so I can OC the **** out of the core. Do RAMsinks really help at all as far as OC'ing the memory? I already have pretty good air cooling in the case and am wondering if they would be worth installing. Thanks for any opinions, Rick Ramsinks self do nothing, they just store heat. What does helps is air flowing over the card, thus the ramsinks..that will allow the ramsinks to lose the excess heat to the air and keep on drawing heat out of the memory. And yes ramsinks help but in some cases not much since there is not enough airflow in such cases. A ramsink self can't help much without airflow.... |
#6
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Fact is, when DDR memory first appeared a couple of years ago, it really did
used to get hot, this is when RAM sinks became fashionable. Provided your case can provide a decent flow and you use more recent DDR memory, RAM sinks are usually unnecessary. CrimsonLiar "dorkus.erectus" wrote in message ... I have a Sapphire 9800Pro/128MB. I'll be installing an Arctic-Cooler VGA Silencer this weekend mainly so I can OC the **** out of the core. Do RAMsinks really help at all as far as OC'ing the memory? I already have pretty good air cooling in the case and am wondering if they would be worth installing. Thanks for any opinions, Rick |
#7
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On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:01:40 -0700, EGA EGA@ wrote:
"dorkus.erectus" wrote: I have a Sapphire 9800Pro/128MB. I'll be installing an Arctic-Cooler VGA Silencer this weekend mainly so I can OC the **** out of the core. Do RAMsinks really help at all as far as OC'ing the memory? I already have pretty good air cooling in the case and am wondering if they would be worth installing. Thanks for any opinions, Rick Yes, it's worth it. I was able to OC my memory on my Ti4600 another 30Mghz. From 720 to 750. Added 125 points to my 3DMark scrores. Card runs cooler too. 120 3DMark points.... Like that would be noticable? |
#8
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"dorkus.erectus" wrote in message ... I have a Sapphire 9800Pro/128MB. I'll be installing an Arctic-Cooler VGA Silencer this weekend mainly so I can OC the **** out of the core. Do RAMsinks really help at all as far as OC'ing the memory? I already have pretty good air cooling in the case and am wondering if they would be worth installing. Thanks for any opinions, Rick Thanks all. I think I'll skip the ramsinks. |
#9
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On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:23:10 +0100, "CrimsonLiar"
wrote: Fact is, when DDR memory first appeared a couple of years ago, it really did used to get hot, this is when RAM sinks became fashionable. Provided your case can provide a decent flow and you use more recent DDR memory, RAM sinks are usually unnecessary. ??? DDR? Nooo... or doubtful... The RD-RAM typically came with heatsinks because of their high speed (and high latency). I've yet to buy and install a RAM-SYND DDR stick (I know they make them) - A friend bitched about wanting me to ADD the heatsinks to his DDR that he bought from Newegg... I say WHY? I did anyways... oh well. - - - - - Remember: In the USA - it is dangeroud to draw or write about Heir Bush in a negative way. The police or SS are called, people threaten to kill you. (What country is this again?) - 15yr old boy in Washington was disciplined for drawing such images. - White House blows cover of an undercover agent because her husband said there were no WMD (before the USA started the war) - her job was finding terrorist. (This makes sense?) God bless the land of the free. Where you can burn the Constitution... Ashcroft does it every day. |
#10
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9800pro's come with DDR ram not RD-RAM.
Crimson Liar "Darthy" wrote in message ... On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:23:10 +0100, "CrimsonLiar" wrote: Fact is, when DDR memory first appeared a couple of years ago, it really did used to get hot, this is when RAM sinks became fashionable. Provided your case can provide a decent flow and you use more recent DDR memory, RAM sinks are usually unnecessary. ??? DDR? Nooo... or doubtful... The RD-RAM typically came with heatsinks because of their high speed (and high latency). I've yet to buy and install a RAM-SYND DDR stick (I know they make them) - A friend bitched about wanting me to ADD the heatsinks to his DDR that he bought from Newegg... I say WHY? I did anyways... oh well. - - - - - Remember: In the USA - it is dangeroud to draw or write about Heir Bush in a negative way. The police or SS are called, people threaten to kill you. (What country is this again?) - 15yr old boy in Washington was disciplined for drawing such images. - White House blows cover of an undercover agent because her husband said there were no WMD (before the USA started the war) - her job was finding terrorist. (This makes sense?) God bless the land of the free. Where you can burn the Constitution... Ashcroft does it every day. |
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