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Upgraded to PC3200 RAM, now system is slower???



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 10th 04, 01:49 AM
pberry
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Upgraded to PC3200 RAM, now system is slower???

Hi

My system is

a7n8x-e deluxe mobo
barton 2600+ cpu ( 166fsb )
radeon 9800 pro
etc etc

I want to put a xp 3200+ cpu in ( or maybe a 2500+ and o/c it to 3200+
). I had 2 sticks of Kingston 256mb PC2700 Ram Cas 2.5, so i traded in
my two sticks of kingston 256Mb PC3200 ram, cas 3. Running in dual
channel mode.

If i run the ram at 200mhz in the bios ( cpu at 166mhz ) then i get a
far worse benchamrk score than with the old pc2700 ram ( about 13000
compared to over 15000 before. )

If i go into the bios and set the ram to run at same speed as fsb (
166mhz ) then i get a more normal score, just over 15000 as before.

Is this normal??

I take it theres nothing stopping me just popping in a xp3200+ now?

PS ive managed to get the xp2600+ up to 189mhz fsb resulting in a
clock speed of 2174Mhz. Not far off a 3200+ i dont think. But id
rather not overclock it so i run it at normal speed ( 166mhz )

thanks

paul
  #2  
Old April 10th 04, 02:24 AM
Kill Bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"pberry" wrote in message
...
Hi

My system is

a7n8x-e deluxe mobo
barton 2600+ cpu ( 166fsb )
radeon 9800 pro
etc etc

I want to put a xp 3200+ cpu in ( or maybe a 2500+ and o/c it to 3200+
). I had 2 sticks of Kingston 256mb PC2700 Ram Cas 2.5, so i traded in
my two sticks of kingston 256Mb PC3200 ram, cas 3. Running in dual
channel mode.

If i run the ram at 200mhz in the bios ( cpu at 166mhz ) then i get a
far worse benchamrk score than with the old pc2700 ram ( about 13000
compared to over 15000 before. )

If i go into the bios and set the ram to run at same speed as fsb (
166mhz ) then i get a more normal score, just over 15000 as before.

Is this normal??

I take it theres nothing stopping me just popping in a xp3200+ now?

PS ive managed to get the xp2600+ up to 189mhz fsb resulting in a
clock speed of 2174Mhz. Not far off a 3200+ i dont think. But id
rather not overclock it so i run it at normal speed ( 166mhz )

thanks

paul


Running the ram IN SYNC with the speed of the FSB usually achieves the best
results. Set the ram speed to 1:1 in the BIOS.

That said you can easily run the 2600+ at a 200FSB if you lower the
multiplier to 10 or even 11x. for a 2200Mhz clock speed which is fine for
the CPU.


  #3  
Old April 10th 04, 07:56 AM
Chip
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Kill Bill" wrote in message
...

"pberry" wrote in message
...
Hi

My system is

a7n8x-e deluxe mobo
barton 2600+ cpu ( 166fsb )
radeon 9800 pro
etc etc

I want to put a xp 3200+ cpu in ( or maybe a 2500+ and o/c it to 3200+
). I had 2 sticks of Kingston 256mb PC2700 Ram Cas 2.5, so i traded in
my two sticks of kingston 256Mb PC3200 ram, cas 3. Running in dual
channel mode.

If i run the ram at 200mhz in the bios ( cpu at 166mhz ) then i get a
far worse benchamrk score than with the old pc2700 ram ( about 13000
compared to over 15000 before. )

If i go into the bios and set the ram to run at same speed as fsb (
166mhz ) then i get a more normal score, just over 15000 as before.

Is this normal??

I take it theres nothing stopping me just popping in a xp3200+ now?

PS ive managed to get the xp2600+ up to 189mhz fsb resulting in a
clock speed of 2174Mhz. Not far off a 3200+ i dont think. But id
rather not overclock it so i run it at normal speed ( 166mhz )

thanks

paul


Running the ram IN SYNC with the speed of the FSB usually achieves the

best
results. Set the ram speed to 1:1 in the BIOS.

That said you can easily run the 2600+ at a 200FSB if you lower the
multiplier to 10 or even 11x. for a 2200Mhz clock speed which is fine for
the CPU.


.....assuming his CPU is unlocked, which it might very well not be.

Chip


  #4  
Old April 10th 04, 01:25 PM
QBall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Running memory asynchronously on an NF2 cripples performance ..... very
seriously.
Get a DFI Infinity and run both synchronously at 250 FSB ..... without
raising a sweat !


"pberry" wrote in message
...
Hi

My system is

a7n8x-e deluxe mobo
barton 2600+ cpu ( 166fsb )
radeon 9800 pro
etc etc

I want to put a xp 3200+ cpu in ( or maybe a 2500+ and o/c it to 3200+
). I had 2 sticks of Kingston 256mb PC2700 Ram Cas 2.5, so i traded in
my two sticks of kingston 256Mb PC3200 ram, cas 3. Running in dual
channel mode.

If i run the ram at 200mhz in the bios ( cpu at 166mhz ) then i get a
far worse benchamrk score than with the old pc2700 ram ( about 13000
compared to over 15000 before. )

If i go into the bios and set the ram to run at same speed as fsb (
166mhz ) then i get a more normal score, just over 15000 as before.

Is this normal??

I take it theres nothing stopping me just popping in a xp3200+ now?

PS ive managed to get the xp2600+ up to 189mhz fsb resulting in a
clock speed of 2174Mhz. Not far off a 3200+ i dont think. But id
rather not overclock it so i run it at normal speed ( 166mhz )

thanks

paul



  #5  
Old April 10th 04, 08:48 PM
Chip
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"QBall" wrote in message
...
Running memory asynchronously on an NF2 cripples performance ..... very
seriously.
Get a DFI Infinity and run both synchronously at 250 FSB ..... without
raising a sweat !


You have to be a pretty desparate overclocker to want to buy a DFI board.
Yes, if you want 250MHz FSB or more, then its the one to go for. But its
also *full* of problems, the support stinks and their support people often
have a really ****ty attitude to their customers. Avoid!

Chip



"pberry" wrote in message
...
Hi

My system is

a7n8x-e deluxe mobo
barton 2600+ cpu ( 166fsb )
radeon 9800 pro
etc etc

I want to put a xp 3200+ cpu in ( or maybe a 2500+ and o/c it to 3200+
). I had 2 sticks of Kingston 256mb PC2700 Ram Cas 2.5, so i traded in
my two sticks of kingston 256Mb PC3200 ram, cas 3. Running in dual
channel mode.

If i run the ram at 200mhz in the bios ( cpu at 166mhz ) then i get a
far worse benchamrk score than with the old pc2700 ram ( about 13000
compared to over 15000 before. )

If i go into the bios and set the ram to run at same speed as fsb (
166mhz ) then i get a more normal score, just over 15000 as before.

Is this normal??

I take it theres nothing stopping me just popping in a xp3200+ now?

PS ive managed to get the xp2600+ up to 189mhz fsb resulting in a
clock speed of 2174Mhz. Not far off a 3200+ i dont think. But id
rather not overclock it so i run it at normal speed ( 166mhz )

thanks

paul





  #6  
Old April 10th 04, 11:07 PM
QBall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Chip" wrote in message
...
"QBall" wrote in message
...
Running memory asynchronously on an NF2 cripples performance ..... very
seriously.
Get a DFI Infinity and run both synchronously at 250 FSB ..... without
raising a sweat !


You have to be a pretty desparate overclocker to want to buy a DFI board.
Yes, if you want 250MHz FSB or more, then its the one to go for. But its
also *full* of problems,



No, that's just an Abit lie.
A few owners had cold-boot issues, but most of those were due to a variety
of user-errors.
Mine works flawlessly because I know what I'm doing.
There is a risk of board 'cot-death' - which can happen at stock settings.
But the upside is that you always get a good replacement back.
Like any true prodigy, it has its share of teething troubles.
But boy - it's so worth it !
It's a legend in it's own lunchtime - prolly the greatest o/c'ers mobo,
living or dead.


the support stinks and their support people often
have a really ****ty attitude to their customers. Avoid!

Chip



"pberry" wrote in message
...
Hi

My system is

a7n8x-e deluxe mobo
barton 2600+ cpu ( 166fsb )
radeon 9800 pro
etc etc

I want to put a xp 3200+ cpu in ( or maybe a 2500+ and o/c it to 3200+
). I had 2 sticks of Kingston 256mb PC2700 Ram Cas 2.5, so i traded in
my two sticks of kingston 256Mb PC3200 ram, cas 3. Running in dual
channel mode.

If i run the ram at 200mhz in the bios ( cpu at 166mhz ) then i get a
far worse benchamrk score than with the old pc2700 ram ( about 13000
compared to over 15000 before. )

If i go into the bios and set the ram to run at same speed as fsb (
166mhz ) then i get a more normal score, just over 15000 as before.

Is this normal??

I take it theres nothing stopping me just popping in a xp3200+ now?

PS ive managed to get the xp2600+ up to 189mhz fsb resulting in a
clock speed of 2174Mhz. Not far off a 3200+ i dont think. But id
rather not overclock it so i run it at normal speed ( 166mhz )

thanks

paul







  #7  
Old April 11th 04, 07:40 AM
Chip
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"QBall" wrote in message
...

"Chip" wrote in message
...
"QBall" wrote in message
...
Running memory asynchronously on an NF2 cripples performance .....

very
seriously.
Get a DFI Infinity and run both synchronously at 250 FSB ..... without
raising a sweat !


You have to be a pretty desparate overclocker to want to buy a DFI

board.
Yes, if you want 250MHz FSB or more, then its the one to go for. But

its
also *full* of problems,



No, that's just an Abit lie.


No, it isn't. I own one and I know about all the problems. Cold boot.
Poor raid performance, disk corruption with firewire enabled, not stable
above 1.825v CPU. I could go on.

A few owners had cold-boot issues, but most of those were due to a variety
of user-errors.


Nonsense. Many of the people with these problems are experienced PC
builders who have worked with countless other boards and who know what they
are doing.

Mine works flawlessly because I know what I'm doing.


No, yours works flawlessly because you got lucky, and because you aren't
using Raid0. If you were using Raid0, you would know that the performance
is poor, because it is on *ALL* dfi infinities and lanpartys.

There is a risk of board 'cot-death' - which can happen at stock settings.


Thats not the biggest problem though.

But the upside is that you always get a good replacement back.


No. You always get **a replacement** back. Which might have all the same
problems. (It will *definitely* still have the raid problem, because they
all have that.) Many people are on their 3rd or 4th RMA with these boards.

Like any true prodigy, it has its share of teething troubles.
But boy - it's so worth it !


Why? So you can get higher scores in 3dmark01? I don't think so.

It's a legend in it's own lunchtime - prolly the greatest o/c'ers mobo,
living or dead.


True, it is an OK overclocker's board. But its just not worth it imho.
And apart from anything else its only good from the point of view of running
high FSB's. If you want big CPU overclocks, its fairly poor. The power
regulation is poor and it will only go up to 2.0v anyway. Not that you can
actually use anything over 1.85, because it doesn't actually work.

the support stinks and their support people often
have a really ****ty attitude to their customers.


Hmmmm. You didn't respond to that bit. I wonder why. This is the single
biggest reason I am dumping mine.

Chip


"pberry" wrote in message
...
Hi

My system is

a7n8x-e deluxe mobo
barton 2600+ cpu ( 166fsb )
radeon 9800 pro
etc etc

I want to put a xp 3200+ cpu in ( or maybe a 2500+ and o/c it to

3200+
). I had 2 sticks of Kingston 256mb PC2700 Ram Cas 2.5, so i traded

in
my two sticks of kingston 256Mb PC3200 ram, cas 3. Running in dual
channel mode.

If i run the ram at 200mhz in the bios ( cpu at 166mhz ) then i get

a
far worse benchamrk score than with the old pc2700 ram ( about 13000
compared to over 15000 before. )

If i go into the bios and set the ram to run at same speed as fsb (
166mhz ) then i get a more normal score, just over 15000 as before.

Is this normal??

I take it theres nothing stopping me just popping in a xp3200+ now?

PS ive managed to get the xp2600+ up to 189mhz fsb resulting in a
clock speed of 2174Mhz. Not far off a 3200+ i dont think. But id
rather not overclock it so i run it at normal speed ( 166mhz )

thanks

paul








  #8  
Old April 11th 04, 10:04 AM
QBall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Chip" wrote in message
...
"QBall" wrote in message
...

"Chip" wrote in message
...
"QBall" wrote in message
...
Running memory asynchronously on an NF2 cripples performance .....

very
seriously.
Get a DFI Infinity and run both synchronously at 250 FSB .....

without
raising a sweat !

You have to be a pretty desparate overclocker to want to buy a DFI

board.
Yes, if you want 250MHz FSB or more, then its the one to go for. But

its
also *full* of problems,



No, that's just an Abit lie.


No, it isn't. I own one and I know about all the problems. Cold boot.



With the right settings, this is avoidable.


Poor raid performance,



This afflicts a lot of NF2 boards.
Most people use a PCI RAID card anyway.


disk corruption with firewire enabled,



Haven't heard of disk corruption.


not stable
above 1.825v CPU.



Well, I've got two Infinities running at 2.0vcore quite happily - and know
lots of others.


I could go on.



Yeah, but you haven't because there are no more problems.
You're exaggerating a few problems experienced by people who haven't got
their setups right.
So stop blaming the manufacturer.



A few owners had cold-boot issues, but most of those were due to a

variety
of user-errors.


Nonsense. Many of the people with these problems are experienced PC
builders who have worked with countless other boards and who know what

they
are doing.

Mine works flawlessly because I know what I'm doing.


No, yours works flawlessly because you got lucky, and because you aren't
using Raid0. If you were using Raid0, you would know that the performance
is poor, because it is on *ALL* dfi infinities and lanpartys.



Just get a $20 RAID card.
It's foolish to run RAID anyway - it's inherently risky, of little
performance gain and asking for trouble.



There is a risk of board 'cot-death' - which can happen at stock

settings.

Thats not the biggest problem though.



You keep making these open-ended statements like there's some huge, unspoken
problem.
The only non-user-error problems are possible cot-death and RAID issues -
and the latter has a work-around.



But the upside is that you always get a good replacement back.


No. You always get **a replacement** back. Which might have all the same
problems.



No, I've RMA'd two Infinities - and BOTH are absolutely perfect.


(It will *definitely* still have the raid problem, because they
all have that.) Many people are on their 3rd or 4th RMA with these

boards.


Yes, because of RAID problems.
If they had half a brain, they'd spend RMA postage on a RAID card.



Like any true prodigy, it has its share of teething troubles.
But boy - it's so worth it !


Why? So you can get higher scores in 3dmark01?



You obviously haven't got a clue what a good o/c'ing board's about.
3DMk is a complete irrelevance.
What o/c's want is high FSB, a board that extracts the best from memory, one
that runs the CPU cool and awesome analogue audio performance.
And there's no board that's ever come close to the DFI's on this.


I don't think so.

It's a legend in it's own lunchtime - prolly the greatest o/c'ers mobo,
living or dead.


True, it is an OK overclocker's board. But its just not worth it imho.



Not for you, because you stubbornly threw a tantrum about the RAID issue and
refused to buy a cheap RAID card.
You can't go on to trash a stunning mobo because of your own intransigence.


And apart from anything else its only good from the point of view of

running
high FSB's.



Err .... I don't think so.
There's memory performance, too.
If you believe that gross o/c is the only performance parameter, you're
obviously just an amateur and newbie.


If you want big CPU overclocks, its fairly poor.



Wrong, my Infinity runs my chip to within 30 MHz of what an NF7 took another
0.13vcore to run it.


The power
regulation is poor and it will only go up to 2.0v anyway.



Who cares if it gets you close to the chips max, but at 15C cooler ?


Not that you can
actually use anything over 1.85, because it doesn't actually work.



Go to amdmb.com and look at people's sigs - there's loads running at
2.0vcore perfectly happily.
I think the problem you're referring to is that of the XP mobiles - many of
which will not take more than 1.85vcore.
The other side of that problem is that many users are using backplate
coolers and in mismounting them have impaired cooling.
Reduced voltagability is a definitively diagnostic symptom of incorrect sink
mounting - again, user-error.




the support stinks and their support people often
have a really ****ty attitude to their customers.



Well, they've dealt with both my RMA's perfectly.



Hmmmm. You didn't respond to that bit. I wonder why. This is the single
biggest reason I am dumping mine.



So they didn't RMA your board ?
Maybe your reasons for trying to RMA were spurious.
Or maybe you screwed up your board and voided the warranty.
Again, like 98% of the complaints - user-error.
Don't blame others for YOUR screw-ups.
Go to amdmb.com and read the number of posts waxing lyrical about this
amazing piece of kit.
A good board is like a race Ferrari - needs some know-how to get it just
right.
If you want safe - get a Hewlett Packard.




Chip


"pberry" wrote in message
...
Hi

My system is

a7n8x-e deluxe mobo
barton 2600+ cpu ( 166fsb )
radeon 9800 pro
etc etc

I want to put a xp 3200+ cpu in ( or maybe a 2500+ and o/c it to

3200+
). I had 2 sticks of Kingston 256mb PC2700 Ram Cas 2.5, so i

traded
in
my two sticks of kingston 256Mb PC3200 ram, cas 3. Running in dual
channel mode.

If i run the ram at 200mhz in the bios ( cpu at 166mhz ) then i

get
a
far worse benchamrk score than with the old pc2700 ram ( about

13000
compared to over 15000 before. )

If i go into the bios and set the ram to run at same speed as fsb

(
166mhz ) then i get a more normal score, just over 15000 as

before.

Is this normal??

I take it theres nothing stopping me just popping in a xp3200+

now?

PS ive managed to get the xp2600+ up to 189mhz fsb resulting in a
clock speed of 2174Mhz. Not far off a 3200+ i dont think. But id
rather not overclock it so i run it at normal speed ( 166mhz )

thanks

paul










  #9  
Old April 12th 04, 11:45 AM
Chip
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"QBall" wrote in message
...

"Chip" wrote in message
...
"QBall" wrote in message
...

"Chip" wrote in message
...
"QBall" wrote in message
...
Running memory asynchronously on an NF2 cripples performance .....

very
seriously.
Get a DFI Infinity and run both synchronously at 250 FSB .....

without
raising a sweat !

You have to be a pretty desparate overclocker to want to buy a DFI

board.
Yes, if you want 250MHz FSB or more, then its the one to go for.

But
its
also *full* of problems,


No, that's just an Abit lie.


No, it isn't. I own one and I know about all the problems. Cold boot.



You are such an offensive idiot, I can hardly be bothered to reply. How old
are you btw?


With the right settings, this is avoidable.


Oh, so you have a cold boot fix do you? The combined intellect of the
various AMD forums can't figure a fix (other than a mod to your CPU perhaps
to change the default voltage), but you have found one. Well that's news to
me.... and to the countless other sufferers, no doubt.

Poor raid performance,



This afflicts a lot of NF2 boards.
Most people use a PCI RAID card anyway.


You are just plain, good-ol'-fashioned wrong on this one. Abit nf7-s, Asus
A78NX and other boards get 100 ~ 115 MB/s writes with Raid0, depending on
disks and setup etc. DFI gets max 85MB/s. Its typically 20~30MB/s down
from where it should be. It has nothing to do with "lots of NF2 boards".
This is an DFI/SIL3114 problem. Only DFI aren't interested in even looking
at it and SIL don't really offer end-user support of any substance. We are
supposed to go through the oem, but DFI can't be bothered.


disk corruption with firewire enabled,



Haven't heard of disk corruption.

not stable
above 1.825v CPU.


Well, I've got two Infinities running at 2.0vcore quite happily - and know
lots of others.


Yes, some are OK. The voltage regulator in the Infinity is rated to 1.85v,
but DFI overvolt it up to 2.0v. Its not an ideal solution, but it works
sometimes. But many people have problems over 1.825 or 1.85v.

I could go on.



Yeah, but you haven't because there are no more problems.


The ones I listed are the major problems. But there are many others
(admittedly not so universal, but still fairly common nevertheless.) What
about not detecting IDE disks properly, USB devices disappearing for
example. There are other problems too. All boards have problems and the
DFI ones are not alone in that respect. But the number of problems and the
RMA rates are high with the DFI boards.

You're exaggerating a few problems experienced by people who haven't got
their setups right. So stop blaming the manufacturer.


Really that is complete BS and you know it. The "Cold Boot" problem is
hardly the fault of the user, is it. And neither is the crappy raid
performance. To imply that these are all user errors is just not true and
you know it. Perhaps you would like to visit amdforums and make a simple
post explaining to everyone that all their problems are down to user error.
You'll make lots of new friends that way, trust me ;-)


A few owners had cold-boot issues, but most of those were due to a

variety
of user-errors.


A few users? What planet are you on?


Nonsense. Many of the people with these problems are experienced PC
builders who have worked with countless other boards and who know what

they
are doing.

Mine works flawlessly because I know what I'm doing.


God, what it must be like to be so marvellous. Has it occurred to you that
just maybe you got "lucky". Heck, you only had to do 2 RMA's. That's so
lucky. LOL.


No, yours works flawlessly because you got lucky, and because you aren't
using Raid0. If you were using Raid0, you would know that the

performance
is poor, because it is on *ALL* dfi infinities and lanpartys.



Just get a $20 RAID card.


Er, thanks. I did actually.

It's foolish to run RAID anyway - it's inherently risky, of little
performance gain and asking for trouble.


I got raid because I do video editing work. And the performance is
massively better for shifting 4 Gbyte files around. But you would know
that, because of your massive experience. And I do actually back my stuff
up, so I don't see how Raid is so inherently risky.



There is a risk of board 'cot-death' - which can happen at stock

settings.

Thats not the biggest problem though.



You keep making these open-ended statements like there's some huge,

unspoken
problem.


No, its not open ended. I mentioned other problems. Cold boot and poor raid
are worse problems, imho.

The only non-user-error problems are possible cot-death and RAID issues -
and the latter has a work-around.


What? Buy a raid card? What sort of workaround is that? That's not a
workaround. You buy a board with a raid controller on board. And the
workaround is to buy another raid controller? And that's OK? Its like
buying a 4.5 litre V8 instead of the 2.0 regular and finding that it doesn't
perform as you would like. And the manufacturer says don't worry, there's a
"workaround"; buy a new engine. Love it. LOL.



But the upside is that you always get a good replacement back.


No. You always get **a replacement** back. Which might have all the

same
problems.



No, I've RMA'd two Infinities - and BOTH are absolutely perfect.


So, its guaranteed then. Send in an RMA and you will always get a good
replacement. It must be true - it happened to you twice. Oh, sorry I must
have forgotten about the poor sods who are on their 3rd or 4th RMA. Or the
people like me, for whom an RMA won't even attempt to fix the problem
because DFI don't even admit that there IS a problem.



(It will *definitely* still have the raid problem, because they
all have that.) Many people are on their 3rd or 4th RMA with these

boards.


Yes, because of RAID problems.
If they had half a brain, they'd spend RMA postage on a RAID card.


Why would someone want to do that? Wouldn't it be better just to get
someone at DFI to get off their fat arse and figure a simple fix? The
hardware works fine, its just the bios or a driver issue. It could probably
be easily fixed if someone was to actually get off their backside. And
apart from anything else, I have 4 sata disks. And a 4 port sata disk
controller is not peanuts.


Like any true prodigy, it has its share of teething troubles.
But boy - it's so worth it !


Why? So you can get higher scores in 3dmark01?



You obviously haven't got a clue what a good o/c'ing board's about.
3DMk is a complete irrelevance.
What o/c's want is high FSB, a board that extracts the best from memory,

one
that runs the CPU cool and awesome analogue audio performance.
And there's no board that's ever come close to the DFI's on this.


The audio performance is the same as any other soundstorm board, i.e. many
other nforce2 chipset boards. The CPU runs at the same voltage as in other
boards and therefore runs at the same temperature. Whether the sensors show
it to be lower, I don't know and I don't care. The temperature is
determined by the speed and the voltage. And I have not seen any consistent
evidence to suggest that the DFI boards can get you higher overclocks for
less volts. On the contrary, many people have had to give their CPU even
more volts than on their previous boards. The memory bandwidth I agree.
There is no better board for high FSB's - if you get one that works.


I don't think so.

It's a legend in it's own lunchtime - prolly the greatest o/c'ers

mobo,
living or dead.


True, it is an OK overclocker's board. But its just not worth it imho.



Not for you, because you stubbornly threw a tantrum about the RAID issue

and
refused to buy a cheap RAID card.


Apart from the fact that I did buy a raid card. And if you call having 10
messages of mine completely ignored by DFI's support person, and then my
publicly complaining about it "throwing a tantrum", then yes I did.

You can't go on to trash a stunning mobo because of your own

intransigence.

What intransigence? I bought a raid card. And I gave up and decided to use
another manufacturers motherboard at soonest opportunity. Quite pragmatic I
would say. Everything I have said above is 100% true and correct.
"Trashing" doesn't come into it. But when someone like you starts off
posting in a public forum that its the best board ever, I have every right
to post a counter argument.

And apart from anything else its only good from the point of view of

running
high FSB's.



Err .... I don't think so.
There's memory performance, too.


By high FSB's I implied high memory. No-one would be stupid enough to run
the memory and the FSB async. You'd know that of course.

If you believe that gross o/c is the only performance parameter, you're
obviously just an amateur and newbie.


No, I don't. And I am not.

If you want big CPU overclocks, its fairly poor.


Wrong, my Infinity runs my chip to within 30 MHz of what an NF7 took

another
0.13vcore to run it.


I said big overclocks. How many DFI's do you see running 3GHz or more?
Zero. Because it has no way of providing more than 2.0v CPU. Unlike Abit
and Epox, for example. That's why Abit and Epox dominate the high overclock
sector. Like I said, if you want big overclocks, the DFI is fairly poor.


The power
regulation is poor and it will only go up to 2.0v anyway.



Who cares if it gets you close to the chips max, but at 15C cooler ?


So its OK for you to keep making these sorts of statements, but when I make
a similar (opposite) statement, then thats not OK? Well this "15C cooler"
is complete BS. *You* may find you need less volts. Many others find the
opposite. There's no conclusive evidence that the DFI needs less volts for
any given overclock. And if you think the small amount of voltage decrease
you need accounts for a 15C temperature difference, then you are less clever
than you think. Hint: CPU temperature sensors calibration is notoriously
unreliable.


Not that you can
actually use anything over 1.85, because it doesn't actually work.



Go to amdmb.com and look at people's sigs - there's loads running at
2.0vcore perfectly happily.


Some. But many have problems, as I explained. Because of the weedy voltage
regulator on the DFI.

I think the problem you're referring to is that of the XP mobiles - many

of
which will not take more than 1.85vcore.


And the ones that will? Why do they have problems?

The other side of that problem is that many users are using backplate
coolers and in mismounting them have impaired cooling.
Reduced voltagability is a definitively diagnostic symptom of incorrect

sink
mounting - again, user-error.


Post away on www.amdforums.com. Please, I'd love to see it. Just explain
to everyone that their problems are all user error. It will be such a hoot.
Go on, I dare you ;-)



the support stinks and their support people often
have a really ****ty attitude to their customers.



Well, they've dealt with both my RMA's perfectly.


I am glad about that. (Genuinely, I am) No-one should have to put up with
the ****ty non-support I have experienced. Unfortunately RMA isn't an
option for me. I would just get another board with the same raid problem,
because ALL DFI's have the same raid problem. So whats the point.


Hmmmm. You didn't respond to that bit. I wonder why. This is the

single
biggest reason I am dumping mine.


So they didn't RMA your board ?


I didn't ask them. What would be the point.

Maybe your reasons for trying to RMA were spurious.


Or maybe I didn't request an RMA.

Or maybe you screwed up your board and voided the warranty.


Or maybe I didn't.

Again, like 98% of the complaints - user-error.
Don't blame others for YOUR screw-ups.


Hmmmmm. Cold boot problem - "user error". Raid performance problem - "user
error". Is that what you really think? Seriously? Cold boot problem is
"user error". Your arrogance is just astounding. PLEASE, I beg you, post
that on www.amdforums.com. PLEASE. It would be SO funny.

Go to amdmb.com and read the number of posts waxing lyrical about this
amazing piece of kit.
A good board is like a race Ferrari - needs some know-how to get it just
right.
If you want safe - get a Hewlett Packard.


Thanks for the advice, oh wise one.

Chip




Chip


"pberry" wrote in message
...
Hi

My system is

a7n8x-e deluxe mobo
barton 2600+ cpu ( 166fsb )
radeon 9800 pro
etc etc

I want to put a xp 3200+ cpu in ( or maybe a 2500+ and o/c it to

3200+
). I had 2 sticks of Kingston 256mb PC2700 Ram Cas 2.5, so i

traded
in
my two sticks of kingston 256Mb PC3200 ram, cas 3. Running in

dual
channel mode.

If i run the ram at 200mhz in the bios ( cpu at 166mhz ) then i

get
a
far worse benchamrk score than with the old pc2700 ram ( about

13000
compared to over 15000 before. )

If i go into the bios and set the ram to run at same speed as

fsb
(
166mhz ) then i get a more normal score, just over 15000 as

before.

Is this normal??

I take it theres nothing stopping me just popping in a xp3200+

now?

PS ive managed to get the xp2600+ up to 189mhz fsb resulting in

a
clock speed of 2174Mhz. Not far off a 3200+ i dont think. But id
rather not overclock it so i run it at normal speed ( 166mhz )

thanks

paul












  #10  
Old April 12th 04, 01:06 PM
QBall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Chip" wrote in message
...

"QBall" wrote in message
...

"Chip" wrote in message
...
"QBall" wrote in message
...

"Chip" wrote in message
...
"QBall" wrote in message
...
Running memory asynchronously on an NF2 cripples performance

......
very
seriously.
Get a DFI Infinity and run both synchronously at 250 FSB .....

without
raising a sweat !

You have to be a pretty desparate overclocker to want to buy a DFI
board.
Yes, if you want 250MHz FSB or more, then its the one to go for.

But
its
also *full* of problems,


No, that's just an Abit lie.

No, it isn't. I own one and I know about all the problems. Cold

boot.


You are such an offensive idiot, I can hardly be bothered to reply. How

old
are you btw?


With the right settings, this is avoidable.


Oh, so you have a cold boot fix do you? The combined intellect of the
various AMD forums can't figure a fix (other than a mod to your CPU

perhaps
to change the default voltage), but you have found one. Well that's news

to
me.... and to the countless other sufferers, no doubt.

Poor raid performance,



This afflicts a lot of NF2 boards.
Most people use a PCI RAID card anyway.


You are just plain, good-ol'-fashioned wrong on this one. Abit nf7-s,

Asus
A78NX and other boards get 100 ~ 115 MB/s writes with Raid0, depending on
disks and setup etc. DFI gets max 85MB/s. Its typically 20~30MB/s down
from where it should be. It has nothing to do with "lots of NF2 boards".
This is an DFI/SIL3114 problem. Only DFI aren't interested in even

looking
at it and SIL don't really offer end-user support of any substance. We

are
supposed to go through the oem, but DFI can't be bothered.


disk corruption with firewire enabled,



Haven't heard of disk corruption.

not stable
above 1.825v CPU.


Well, I've got two Infinities running at 2.0vcore quite happily - and

know
lots of others.


Yes, some are OK. The voltage regulator in the Infinity is rated to

1.85v,
but DFI overvolt it up to 2.0v. Its not an ideal solution, but it works
sometimes. But many people have problems over 1.825 or 1.85v.

I could go on.



Yeah, but you haven't because there are no more problems.


The ones I listed are the major problems. But there are many others
(admittedly not so universal, but still fairly common nevertheless.) What
about not detecting IDE disks properly, USB devices disappearing for
example. There are other problems too. All boards have problems and the
DFI ones are not alone in that respect. But the number of problems and

the
RMA rates are high with the DFI boards.

You're exaggerating a few problems experienced by people who haven't got
their setups right. So stop blaming the manufacturer.


Really that is complete BS and you know it. The "Cold Boot" problem is
hardly the fault of the user, is it. And neither is the crappy raid
performance. To imply that these are all user errors is just not true and
you know it. Perhaps you would like to visit amdforums and make a simple
post explaining to everyone that all their problems are down to user

error.
You'll make lots of new friends that way, trust me ;-)


A few owners had cold-boot issues, but most of those were due to a

variety
of user-errors.


A few users? What planet are you on?


Nonsense. Many of the people with these problems are experienced PC
builders who have worked with countless other boards and who know what

they
are doing.

Mine works flawlessly because I know what I'm doing.


God, what it must be like to be so marvellous. Has it occurred to you

that
just maybe you got "lucky". Heck, you only had to do 2 RMA's. That's so
lucky. LOL.


No, yours works flawlessly because you got lucky, and because you

aren't
using Raid0. If you were using Raid0, you would know that the

performance
is poor, because it is on *ALL* dfi infinities and lanpartys.



Just get a $20 RAID card.


Er, thanks. I did actually.

It's foolish to run RAID anyway - it's inherently risky, of little
performance gain and asking for trouble.


I got raid because I do video editing work. And the performance is
massively better for shifting 4 Gbyte files around. But you would know
that, because of your massive experience. And I do actually back my stuff
up, so I don't see how Raid is so inherently risky.



There is a risk of board 'cot-death' - which can happen at stock

settings.

Thats not the biggest problem though.



You keep making these open-ended statements like there's some huge,

unspoken
problem.


No, its not open ended. I mentioned other problems. Cold boot and poor

raid
are worse problems, imho.

The only non-user-error problems are possible cot-death and RAID

issues -
and the latter has a work-around.


What? Buy a raid card? What sort of workaround is that? That's not a
workaround. You buy a board with a raid controller on board. And the
workaround is to buy another raid controller? And that's OK?



Every piece of technology has its foibles.
This is DFI's.
Why are you whining like a baby when RAID cards cost but $20 ?


Its like
buying a 4.5 litre V8 instead of the 2.0 regular and finding that it

doesn't
perform as you would like. And the manufacturer says don't worry, there's

a
"workaround"; buy a new engine. Love it. LOL.



People like you think the world owes them a living.





But the upside is that you always get a good replacement back.

No. You always get **a replacement** back. Which might have all the

same
problems.



No, I've RMA'd two Infinities - and BOTH are absolutely perfect.


So, its guaranteed then. Send in an RMA and you will always get a good
replacement. It must be true - it happened to you twice. Oh, sorry I

must
have forgotten about the poor sods who are on their 3rd or 4th RMA.



These people are liars who are angry that their RMA took longer than two
days.
So they badmouth DFI by saying they needed 3,4,5 ... 25 RMA's.
You have no understanding of human nature.


Or the
people like me, for whom an RMA won't even attempt to fix the problem
because DFI don't even admit that there IS a problem.



(It will *definitely* still have the raid problem, because they
all have that.) Many people are on their 3rd or 4th RMA with these

boards.


Yes, because of RAID problems.
If they had half a brain, they'd spend RMA postage on a RAID card.


Why would someone want to do that? Wouldn't it be better just to get
someone at DFI to get off their fat arse and figure a simple fix?



Because we don't live in an ideal world.
Deal with it mummy's boy.



The
hardware works fine, its just the bios or a driver issue. It could

probably
be easily fixed if someone was to actually get off their backside. And
apart from anything else, I have 4 sata disks. And a 4 port sata disk
controller is not peanuts.



As I said, if you're going to run RAID - you've got to expect the worst.
If you want safe, get a crappy Asus and settle for 190 instead of 290 FSB.




Like any true prodigy, it has its share of teething troubles.
But boy - it's so worth it !

Why? So you can get higher scores in 3dmark01?



You obviously haven't got a clue what a good o/c'ing board's about.
3DMk is a complete irrelevance.
What o/c's want is high FSB, a board that extracts the best from memory,

one
that runs the CPU cool and awesome analogue audio performance.
And there's no board that's ever come close to the DFI's on this.


The audio performance is the same as any other soundstorm board,



Now you reveal your true ignorance.
I run analogue audio through a good hifi - and the NF7-S sound is utter
shi'ite compared with the DFI.


i.e. many
other nforce2 chipset boards. The CPU runs at the same voltage as in

other
boards and therefore runs at the same temperature. Whether the sensors

show
it to be lower, I don't know and I don't care. The temperature is
determined by the speed and the voltage.

And I have not seen any consistent
evidence to suggest that the DFI boards can get you higher overclocks for
less volts.



That shows how little you know, then.
Go to amdmb.com and check out what people's DFI's are getting for the same
vcore.


On the contrary, many people have had to give their CPU even
more volts than on their previous boards. The memory bandwidth I agree.
There is no better board for high FSB's - if you get one that works.


I don't think so.

It's a legend in it's own lunchtime - prolly the greatest o/c'ers

mobo,
living or dead.

True, it is an OK overclocker's board. But its just not worth it

imho.


Not for you, because you stubbornly threw a tantrum about the RAID issue

and
refused to buy a cheap RAID card.


Apart from the fact that I did buy a raid card. And if you call having 10
messages of mine completely ignored by DFI's support person, and then my
publicly complaining about it "throwing a tantrum", then yes I did.



And you claim to be impartial ?



You can't go on to trash a stunning mobo because of your own

intransigence.

What intransigence? I bought a raid card. And I gave up and decided to

use
another manufacturers motherboard at soonest opportunity. Quite pragmatic

I
would say. Everything I have said above is 100% true and correct.
"Trashing" doesn't come into it. But when someone like you starts off
posting in a public forum that its the best board ever, I have every right
to post a counter argument.



If you call that an argument .... heh !




And apart from anything else its only good from the point of view of

running
high FSB's.



Yeah, to a newbie o/c'er - maybe.





Err .... I don't think so.
There's memory performance, too.


By high FSB's I implied high memory. No-one would be stupid enough to run
the memory and the FSB async. You'd know that of course.



The fact that you infer that someone might not, indicates that it maybe
something you've only recently learnt yourself.
QED.



If you believe that gross o/c is the only performance parameter, you're
obviously just an amateur and newbie.


No, I don't. And I am not.

If you want big CPU overclocks, its fairly poor.


Wrong, my Infinity runs my chip to within 30 MHz of what an NF7 took

another
0.13vcore to run it.


I said big overclocks. How many DFI's do you see running 3GHz or more?
Zero. Because it has no way of providing more than 2.0v CPU. Unlike Abit
and Epox, for example. That's why Abit and Epox dominate the high

overclock
sector. Like I said, if you want big overclocks, the DFI is fairly poor.



Nah - the DFI's get chips VERY close to their maxima.
Sorry if you can't get yours where it should be, but as I said before - it's
not on to go blaming the manufacturer for gaps in your own capabilities.
Anyway, there's a high vcore revision coming out.




The power
regulation is poor and it will only go up to 2.0v anyway.



Who cares if it gets you close to the chips max, but at 15C cooler ?


So its OK for you to keep making these sorts of statements, but when I

make
a similar (opposite) statement, then thats not OK? Well this "15C cooler"
is complete BS. *You* may find you need less volts. Many others find the
opposite. There's no conclusive evidence that the DFI needs less volts

for
any given overclock.



Only that provided by hundreds of experienced o/c'ers in the DFI section at
amdmb.com !


And if you think the small amount of voltage decrease
you need accounts for a 15C temperature difference, then you are less

clever
than you think. Hint: CPU temperature sensors calibration is notoriously
unreliable.



So my on-die thermal probe is in collaboration with DFI then ?
Wow !
Clever probe.
It's all about power implementation - which is the reason why DFI get far
higher clocks for the 'same' vcores.




Not that you can
actually use anything over 1.85, because it doesn't actually work.



Go to amdmb.com and look at people's sigs - there's loads running at
2.0vcore perfectly happily.


Some. But many have problems, as I explained. Because of the weedy

voltage
regulator on the DFI.

I think the problem you're referring to is that of the XP mobiles - many

of
which will not take more than 1.85vcore.


And the ones that will? Why do they have problems?



You'll note that they're all using backplate coolers - which have problems
on the DFI's.
Backplate coolers are inherently more problematic than clip-mounters.




The other side of that problem is that many users are using backplate
coolers and in mismounting them have impaired cooling.
Reduced voltagability is a definitively diagnostic symptom of incorrect

sink
mounting - again, user-error.


Post away on www.amdforums.com. Please, I'd love to see it. Just explain
to everyone that their problems are all user error. It will be such a

hoot.
Go on, I dare you ;-)



the support stinks and their support people often
have a really ****ty attitude to their customers.



Well, they've dealt with both my RMA's perfectly.


I am glad about that. (Genuinely, I am) No-one should have to put up

with
the ****ty non-support I have experienced. Unfortunately RMA isn't an
option for me. I would just get another board with the same raid problem,
because ALL DFI's have the same raid problem. So whats the point.


Hmmmm. You didn't respond to that bit. I wonder why. This is the

single
biggest reason I am dumping mine.


So they didn't RMA your board ?


I didn't ask them. What would be the point.

Maybe your reasons for trying to RMA were spurious.


Or maybe I didn't request an RMA.

Or maybe you screwed up your board and voided the warranty.


Or maybe I didn't.

Again, like 98% of the complaints - user-error.
Don't blame others for YOUR screw-ups.


Hmmmmm. Cold boot problem - "user error". Raid performance problem -

"user
error". Is that what you really think? Seriously? Cold boot problem is
"user error". Your arrogance is just astounding. PLEASE, I beg you, post
that on www.amdforums.com. PLEASE. It would be SO funny.

Go to amdmb.com and read the number of posts waxing lyrical about this
amazing piece of kit.
A good board is like a race Ferrari - needs some know-how to get it just
right.
If you want safe - get a Hewlett Packard.



No, seriously - HP's may be overpriced, but at least you won't have any
problems with them.




Thanks for the advice, oh wise one.

Chip




Chip


"pberry" wrote in message
...
Hi

My system is

a7n8x-e deluxe mobo
barton 2600+ cpu ( 166fsb )
radeon 9800 pro
etc etc

I want to put a xp 3200+ cpu in ( or maybe a 2500+ and o/c it

to
3200+
). I had 2 sticks of Kingston 256mb PC2700 Ram Cas 2.5, so i

traded
in
my two sticks of kingston 256Mb PC3200 ram, cas 3. Running in

dual
channel mode.

If i run the ram at 200mhz in the bios ( cpu at 166mhz ) then

i
get
a
far worse benchamrk score than with the old pc2700 ram ( about

13000
compared to over 15000 before. )

If i go into the bios and set the ram to run at same speed as

fsb
(
166mhz ) then i get a more normal score, just over 15000 as

before.

Is this normal??

I take it theres nothing stopping me just popping in a xp3200+

now?

PS ive managed to get the xp2600+ up to 189mhz fsb resulting

in
a
clock speed of 2174Mhz. Not far off a 3200+ i dont think. But

id
rather not overclock it so i run it at normal speed ( 166mhz )

thanks

paul














 




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