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dahm it took long SSD HP-M700



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 3rd 18, 10:03 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
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Posts: 2,407
Default dahm it took long SSD HP-M700

the drive was sitting in the mailbox when I mentioned waiting on
shipping earlier to ray

round and round getting the OS configured, drive format, solid binary
backup. once over for basic measurements

party time now

200G/s trx solid packed & undefragmented 2G large fat32 files

pretty crappy for fragmented small files and lots of them - close to
platter speeds is the 'looks to be' quick impression

nothing unexpected though - sites w/ performance ratings already said
as much

could be the 200G/s may be faster than both my much older MLC drives,
maybe 50G/s faster

sent off to china for two newer SATA 3 cables - appears they're paired
transport wires, ver 2 and 1 don't have. Interesting if that affects,
helps w/ legacy speeds.

Or not. I only paid .50cents a 'take what you get' cable.

So much for the cake - the icing is it's a new SSD in MLC flavor for
$35, which is current TLC prices, except at x2 the TBW ratings more
than TLC. Budget TLC drives, that is. Samsung or Crucial 256G drives
don't come in $35 flavors.

And nevermind the DRAM buffering, the M700 lacks, either, if it's not
going to be churning over a bunch of small files - not especially in
theory. File transfers are for living with or getting used to it.

I've already used up my used-to, anyway, for my money being on extra
low money for unusual MLC longevity. It's installed, does what disc
drives say they do, works, so it must thus and therefore be a done
deal.
  #2  
Old November 3rd 18, 05:48 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
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Posts: 2,407
Default dahm it took long SSD HP-M700

On Sat, 03 Nov 2018 05:03:49 -0400, Flasherly
wrote:

200G/s trx solid packed & undefragmented 2G large fat32 files


Correction: 200M/s, not G.

It's rated SATA 6/G sec - standards rating.
Transfer rate is 600M/s - specifications rated/seq.

It's my very own "ugly duckling" SSD - nobody, largely, but nobody
buys a HP M700 SSD.

Might be people buy a whole laptop, desktop, in which case it makes
sense, because that's what HP does and is known for: pre-assemblies;-
hence HP needs their own end-build material supplies, such as big bin
of SSDs for assembly workers to draw from.

Why then sell me one - because it's flat-pancake NAND, inclusive as
now are all my SSDs. Pancake NAND is bottom-barrel NAND: it only
cooks wider, whereas V- and 3D-NAND for new and improved by being
sandwiched, upwards, into tiny, thin layers. All hail the old;- Long
live the new!

I've seen opinionated HP M700 comparisons, on the high-end to a
Crucial MLC SSD, on the low to Kingston series. Oh, yeah ... and do
they ever have the opinion ratings. How many opinions are on mine: A
Big One. And that one comes from a 5-star check only, on Amazon,
without anything else;- might be checked by the HP agent or OEM
marketeer listing it on Amazon. (NewEgg probably has more but I
haven't looked yet.)

Along, of course, with another correction: Mine's no big deal: Amazon
is only a few bucks more, base line, being a presumption without
anybody further jacking uncertainties around with shipping or tax
rates.

There are an extent of more of HP SSD reviews on hardware sites,
though they tend favor the Pro HP model, a S700 series over the M700;-
SLC NAND being presumably the S's logical extension.

And a 6-year warranty I presumed is also wrongo. HP isn't giving me
anything, not other than industry MLC rewrite ratings: The way that's
read for HP-esque is a three-year replacement policy.

Which is still something of shade better, looking to the brighter side
of MLC, than low- to low/middle-pack assemblies in the latest TLC
"stacked" technology, among general offerings to follow and monitor,
when periodically to surface below or at usual $40 sale reductions.

I overprovisioned for 10% in token principle accordingly (25% is de
facto for many among TLC recommendations).

Specifics as to the controller and related utilization, otherwise, due
to lack of DRAM buffering, remain of empiric substances, if at all, to
draw from the big world of real expectations, users see in actual
applications and usage, from one of a discretionary viewpoint provided
by technical specifications and material measures.

And that means, most basically, since I've already bought three SSD
drives, all five years ago, all being as well in MLC planar NAND -- 2
Samsung units, a 64 and 128G, plus one Crucial 256G MLC -- what more
now can I expect, if very little or anything less than lacking in
DRAM, from a HP M700 MLC planar NAND, effectively rendered obsolete,
despite a 5-year advance for newer controller technology, for a
subsequent cost of less than any of the above units.

(Well, I did also pay $40 for my first and oldest SSD, as I recall,
the Samsung 64G. On sale but of course.)
  #3  
Old November 3rd 18, 06:24 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
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Posts: 2,407
Default dahm it took long SSD HP-M700

On Sat, 03 Nov 2018 12:48:28 -0400, Flasherly
wrote:

The way that's read for HP-esque is ...

-
Along with HP-esque M700 packaging specifications: At a minimum
operational functionality, and placement, upon a Microsoft (TM)
Windows 7 operational system (presumably 32-bit is A-OK, too).

If it smells, looks like ... therefore and then it must be bull****.

(Another: notably with Samsung: 'New and improved *NIX compatibility.)

Not that I've gotten around to legal partitions permitted a software
MBR arbitrator, or subsequent OS installs. But then I suspect,
eventually, I shall, starting with the ABC's of FAT16 and a DOS
command.com.

The name of that tune: Controllers, controllers, controllers.

A partial factor, nonetheless to not but have had some impact, upon
noticing in a hardware forum where members were pairing up Samsung
drives on AMD MB platforms. A posting I noticed was dated within this
year.

Samsung SDD drives were reported for issues with AMD supportive
controller chipsets. As well subsequent action, to contact Samsung
support for corrective measures, on a result that Samsung effected the
user buy a new MB to support their SSD on other than AMD chipsets.

What does that mean - I then looked up my MB's controller chipsets and
they're the same as the above complainant, who subsequently returned
the Samsung drive and bought another brand-make SSD.

On principle I'm not believing that until I have the actual hardware,
in hand, to duplicate an outside observation;- on the other hand,
neither am I discounting it. IOW - I'd have had to pay $25, in
addition, to process the validity of Samsung over an HP M700.
  #4  
Old November 3rd 18, 08:51 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Mr. Man-wai Chang
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Posts: 697
Default dahm it took long SSD HP-M700

On 11/3/2018 5:03 PM, Flasherly wrote:
the drive was sitting in the mailbox when I mentioned waiting on
shipping earlier to ray
....
I've already used up my used-to, anyway, for my money being on extra
low money for unusual MLC longevity. It's installed, does what disc
drives say they do, works, so it must thus and therefore be a done
deal.


Remember to backup things up periodically! Even Win 10 and its updates
might all of a sudden delete your personal files... without being sued!

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
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  #5  
Old November 3rd 18, 09:24 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
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Posts: 1,467
Default dahm it took long SSD HP-M700

Flasherly wrote:
On Sat, 03 Nov 2018 12:48:28 -0400, Flasherly
wrote:

The way that's read for HP-esque is ...

-
Along with HP-esque M700 packaging specifications: At a minimum
operational functionality, and placement, upon a Microsoft (TM)
Windows 7 operational system (presumably 32-bit is A-OK, too).

If it smells, looks like ... therefore and then it must be bull****.

(Another: notably with Samsung: 'New and improved *NIX compatibility.)

Not that I've gotten around to legal partitions permitted a software
MBR arbitrator, or subsequent OS installs. But then I suspect,
eventually, I shall, starting with the ABC's of FAT16 and a DOS
command.com.

The name of that tune: Controllers, controllers, controllers.

A partial factor, nonetheless to not but have had some impact, upon
noticing in a hardware forum where members were pairing up Samsung
drives on AMD MB platforms. A posting I noticed was dated within this
year.

Samsung SDD drives were reported for issues with AMD supportive
controller chipsets. As well subsequent action, to contact Samsung
support for corrective measures, on a result that Samsung effected the
user buy a new MB to support their SSD on other than AMD chipsets.

What does that mean - I then looked up my MB's controller chipsets and
they're the same as the above complainant, who subsequently returned
the Samsung drive and bought another brand-make SSD.

On principle I'm not believing that until I have the actual hardware,
in hand, to duplicate an outside observation;- on the other hand,
neither am I discounting it. IOW - I'd have had to pay $25, in
addition, to process the validity of Samsung over an HP M700.


You could get a separate SATA controller card.

The chip on the card should have a PCI Express x2 interface,
rather than just one lane. The PCI Express card connector is
then x4 wide (and only two lanes wired). An ASM1062 is an
example of a chip with x2 interface. Two lanes at PCIe Rev2
gives 2*500MB/sec max transfer rate. The bus efficiency of
0.7 drops the total to 700MB/sec, which is good for a
500MB/sec SSD. You can do SSD to SSD transfers at full
rate, because the PCIe interface is full-duplex.

This gives a better chance of full rate transfer.

The motherboard then needs an x4 slot for your new purchase.
This could take the form of using one of the SLI slots
on a motherboard. Or, some boards will have an x4 slot.
Even if it's sub-wired, it might mate with the x2 on the
card.

A Google search right now is giving poor results, and I
can't see a card I like. IOCREST is a possible brand.
StarTech didn't seem to have what I wanted. They had
a card with a Marvell chip instead.

If for some reason you only had a motherboard with
PCIE Rev1.1 slots, then you'd need a card with
a PCIe switch chip onboard. Which are less common
and could cost $100 (times trump tariff) to fit the machine.

The prices on cards I didn't want, seem to have risen
since the last time I looked. The tariff is only
supposed to add another 10% to everything. And charged
in every country.

Paul
  #6  
Old November 4th 18, 12:37 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,407
Default dahm it took long SSD HP-M700

On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 03:51:09 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang"
wrote:

Remember to backup things up periodically! Even Win 10 and its updates
might all of a sudden delete your personal files... without being sued!


I backup off a DOS FAT16 partition and keep most partitions at various
sizes FAT32, which the FAT16 will see (from Windows 98 DOS command
prompt). Since FAT32 partitions created with OEM partition managers
are legally larger than anything at the time of W98, up to 2 terabyte
partitions, some programs can be run while others should be differed
to more modern OS.

I've some IT-grade commercial backup utilities. Similar in a newer
counterpart, the newer backup utilities will effectively "make their
own" DOS 16 occurrences when they need to reboot and restore. All
very time consuming and needlessly involved from the point of a boot
arbitrator and running off a DOS16/20 partition. Although I also do
use other older utilities in that environment, they're mostly for when
preparing a HDD from a new build or assembly perspective.

The "IT" stuff is old Norton Ghost Enterprise, which includes
utilities for DOS. There's a DOS program for batching purposes for
propagating automated partitions simultaneously across several
computers connected on a network. Good'nuff in my book for IT.

I've used that program for writing my automated boot disc batches for
people simply to insert, repower, and restore the OS. Once or twice.
I think it was freaking them out, the whole concept, and that somebody
could actually do that. People, some, need their hand held, and
that's what newer backup imagery utilities effectively do, to keep
appearances as simple as possible on the front-end of operations. Not,
of course, that they need to do more than what they say: restore the
OS;- Norton Ghost will do the more, though.

Of course if one misses the correct partition out of a DOS16 platform
when "ghosting", overwrites another, it's nothing less than
disastrous. Everything comes with intelligible disclaimers, unless
it's from a snake-charmer, or possibly an actual programming editor,
fully endowed and entitled to rewrite a HDD's MBR in hex.
  #7  
Old November 4th 18, 01:03 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,407
Default dahm it took long SSD HP-M700

On Sat, 03 Nov 2018 16:24:36 -0400, Paul
wrote:

You could get a separate SATA controller card.

The chip on the card should have a PCI Express x2 interface,
rather than just one lane. The PCI Express card connector is
then x4 wide (and only two lanes wired). An ASM1062 is an
example of a chip with x2 interface. Two lanes at PCIe Rev2
gives 2*500MB/sec max transfer rate. The bus efficiency of
0.7 drops the total to 700MB/sec, which is good for a
500MB/sec SSD. You can do SSD to SSD transfers at full
rate, because the PCIe interface is full-duplex.

This gives a better chance of full rate transfer.

The motherboard then needs an x4 slot for your new purchase.
This could take the form of using one of the SLI slots
on a motherboard. Or, some boards will have an x4 slot.
Even if it's sub-wired, it might mate with the x2 on the
card.

A Google search right now is giving poor results, and I
can't see a card I like. IOCREST is a possible brand.
StarTech didn't seem to have what I wanted. They had
a card with a Marvell chip instead.

If for some reason you only had a motherboard with
PCIE Rev1.1 slots, then you'd need a card with
a PCIe switch chip onboard. Which are less common
and could cost $100 (times trump tariff) to fit the machine.

The prices on cards I didn't want, seem to have risen
since the last time I looked. The tariff is only
supposed to add another 10% to everything. And charged
in every country.

Paul


Of course. That also surfaced, by one participant, in the tech
discussion on the Samsung, but I liked the one better where another
decided to return to Samsung Samsung's disc for his money back.

I've two of those boards, controllers, for poor foresight when I
purchased a MB, (now 3rd backup and not the lightning-annulled one
mentioned before), with only two SATA ports.

They're both within arm's reach, although I'd rather not go (back)
there after so many years of running with them. Even though both
these newer MBs are the same model, essentially...

Gigabyte 78LMT-USB3 R2 (rev1.0) Phenom II X4 810
Gigabyte 78LMT (rev6.0) FX-8300 Octal

I'd have to look to check, as I believe the octal has eight SATA
ports, whereas this quad has six. As you can see, I came prepared this
time, and really do value all those native SATA ports.

As per the (Tom's HW / ANAND) tech discussion and controller chips,
HWINFO32 v4.32 reports:

ATI/AMD SP5100 (SB700) SATA Native IDE Controller

same to suffixed (sic) SB700/SB800

for virtually everything controller related on the MB, including one
LPC Bridge. Or the very same as reported.

FWIW. I'll see what happens with the new cables, which really should
be paired up for matching 6G/s hardware, if nothing else for a matter
of course. I've all but one SATA port left now, 3 SSD units, one
mechanical, and a DVD. So it's comparatively all aboard the gravy
train, for storage considerations and what I was running with on the
two prior MBs.
  #8  
Old November 4th 18, 01:45 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,407
Default dahm it took long SSD HP-M700

On Sat, 03 Nov 2018 20:03:27 -0400, Flasherly
wrote:

all aboard the gravytrain

-
The only thing royally screwed is the quad. I should have got better,
a FX 3.6GHz and overclocked it to 4. The Phenom is better in six or
an octal configs, and AMD is besides no slouch in their redundancy
dept. Still, if only I'd checked FX pricing, wasn't afflicted by a
lightning strike, for Ebay FX 3.6GHz pulls. Ouch.
  #9  
Old November 4th 18, 05:39 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
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Posts: 2,407
Default dahm it took long SSD HP-M700

On Sat, 03 Nov 2018 20:45:52 -0400, Flasherly
wrote:

The only thing royally screwed is the quad. I should have got better,
a FX 3.6GHz and overclocked it to 4. The Phenom is better in six or
an octal configs, and AMD is besides no slouch in their redundancy
dept. Still, if only I'd checked FX pricing, wasn't afflicted by a
lightning strike, for Ebay FX 3.6GHz pulls. Ouch.


Correction: Phenom II is up to x6 cores my MB's compatibility listing
and there a no Phenom II octa-cores.

FX series is still the value point, sub-$40 range, for raw speed at or
near stock 3.6Ghz in a quad build. They look to be all fundamentally
multiplier unlocked but, for that, still have low thread-core
efficiency ratings.

A value or dollar-per-MHhz, at what a FX does actually manage across
ratings curves, may be another story entirely. (Among other a wider
range of considerations for such as applications compatibility and
expected support.)

Where I fizzle-farted, apparently, is in already owning a Phenom
non-II AM2+, updating to a AM3+ in cursory same-likeness fashion,
while not adequately researching a field of performance expectations
available from comments given on such as, starting at a FX-4100 to the
FX-4300, and inclusive between a 4350 series, respectively clocking
3.6 to 4.2GHz, stock, all at a minimum margin of 95watts draw.
(Overclocking potential is 5Ghz in some instances.)

And that's where and what I could and should have had, essentially for
a unresearched 2.6Ghz Phenom II I did buy - nor particularly for that
being a good deal on a pulled/used CPU. A FX would have only been
minimally more cost.

I've managed, yes, to more than backup a failed computer, both being
in CPU performance adequately quick. But the failed MB was maxed-out
for the fastest CPU it was rated for. And that's not even remotely
near what this new MB is capable to surpass. Hence, I missed the
extra "bang" - and a big one I'll hazard at that - between a 2.6GHz
Phenom II and a FX running even in single-core at a minimum of 3.6GHz.

It's an AMD thing, I guess, even with another layer of high-GHz Athlon
II series CPUs supported, all at a minimum of a quad build, on the
socket AM3+: the ol' Baffle and Dazzle the propeller-heads with
market saturation techniques. Damn it, everybody deserves to get
their box banged once in awhile, and I should have seen it coming.
  #10  
Old November 4th 18, 06:00 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Mr. Man-wai Chang
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 697
Default dahm it took long SSD HP-M700

On 11/4/2018 7:37 AM, Flasherly wrote:

I backup off a DOS FAT16 partition and keep most partitions at various
sizes FAT32, which the FAT16 will see (from Windows 98 DOS command
prompt). Since FAT32 partitions created with OEM partition managers
are legally larger than anything at the time of W98, up to 2 terabyte
partitions, some programs can be run while others should be differed
to more modern OS.
...
Of course if one misses the correct partition out of a DOS16 platform
when "ghosting", overwrites another, it's nothing less than
disastrous. Everything comes with intelligible disclaimers, unless
it's from a snake-charmer, or possibly an actual programming editor,
fully endowed and entitled to rewrite a HDD's MBR in hex.


I don't ghost partitions, only the data inside because I know where all
my files are. I can re-install Window$ anytime as I don't keep data in
the OS partition.

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
不借貸! 不詐騙! 不*錢! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 不求神! 請考慮綜援
(CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa
 




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