Does Dell make its own motherboards?

2d graphics: The best PCI is up with average AGP.
3d graphics: AGP by leaps and bounds.

Good PCI graphics is hard to come by.
Gosh I remember the day of ISA graphics cards and you could watch windows
draw the drop list of a combo box so sloooowly.

Chances are the onboard graphic would be good for 2d and it would be
expensive to find a PCI card better at 2d. 3d dunno.

"Rob Nicholson" wrote in message
...
1, the CPU cooler consisted of a green plastic duct over the metalwork
led to a 120 mm fan on the rear, nice and quiet.

Those are nice aren't they - I'd never class Dell PCs as loud. Compared to
some of their rack mount servers which sound like a jumbo jet :-)

2, No AGP socket - the solder pads are there on the board, but no
socket. This one had onboard graphics. If you wanted to upgrade to
decent graphics you'd have to use a PCI card.

Out of interest, what's the performance of a PCI graphics card compared to
an AGP one?

Rob.

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 10:09:51 GMT, "Rob Nicholson"
wrote:

-And don't get me started if one of the components was DOA! Getting the
-supermarket suppliers like Dabs & Insight to replace them is a nightmare...

Just had some interesting experiences with 3 problems that all came to a head
over Xmas. Server tape drive fault (HP), DOA CD writer (Computer 2000), faulty
TFT (Acer). Full details on request by sending a postcard or stuck down
envelope, but the conclusion is:

HP - Truly Excellent
C2000 - Good, on way to achieving greatness
Acer - bad bad bad


-Rob
robatwork at mail dot com

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 14:46:23 +0000, Rob S
wrote:

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 10:09:51 GMT, "Rob Nicholson"
wrote:

-And don't get me started if one of the components was DOA! Getting the
-supermarket suppliers like Dabs & Insight to replace them is a nightmare...

Just had some interesting experiences with 3 problems that all came to a head
over Xmas. Server tape drive fault (HP), DOA CD writer (Computer 2000), faulty
TFT (Acer). Full details on request by sending a postcard or stuck down
envelope, but the conclusion is:

HP - Truly Excellent

Yep I'd agree there. My mate's PC at home failed. They came out next
day and swapped the CD writer. A few months later the HD failed. They
again came out the next day. Asked him if it was OK if they swapped
his (IIRC) 40 gig HD for an 80 gig one (IIRC) as that was now the
standard size at the time.
--
Gamma gamma gamma chameleon
You come and glow, you come and glow.
Kick out the cats before you reply

If you want a GOOD computer, assembly one your own.
If you want a regular generic computer with low life spam, buy one from dell
or compac or any damn griffe.

"Lem" escreveu na mensagem
...
Do all Dell PCs (for the UK market) come with Dell's own
motherboards?

I am thinking of getting a Dell but I don't want to find that it uses
a Dell proprietary motherboard that may have little technical data
available.

ISTR hearing that Dell used a non-standad wiring on the 20 or 24 pin
mobo power connector. And I imagine there may be several other Dell
quirks.

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 15:20:03 -0000, Tx2
wrote:

In article ,
, a.k.a Gama Chameleon
says...


Of course thats assuming that the self builder is never going to go on
say a 1 or 2 week holiday, say leaving the company the self built
machine for in the lurch until they get back.

A home built system can be repaired 'off the shelf', so to speak, so
anyone with repair knowledge could it.

Aye, thats the point, its getting someone in, where you may need the
support level. Most companies don't need it though, where ironically a
bigger company would benfit from a one man shop for desktop support,
where a small business may suffer worse from a few days outtage of a
single PC.


Or say the builder is out fixing another machine whilst one fails and
is unable to get there the same day to fix that one as its a one man
business

OK, let's all go buy Dell! FFS. Now you are really getting far too
fussy.

Nope, I'm thinking of the way some companies operate. If they want 4
hr response they need support from someone who can get there. Though
in these cases there is usually a couple of on site people.

I would recomend buying from somwhere like Dell if you are going for
the 4hr gold support (and actually need it) for 99.99% of other
requirements someone local will probably be more of a benefit and you
can just give em a quick call and not faf around with call centers.

Any business who required such a critical support infrastructure is
unlikely to use the local self-employed techie. I certainly wouldn't
even try and suggest to a prospective client that I could support them
at that level, and would most certainly suggest alternatives.

I doubt there are many small businesses who would get a same day
response, but FWIW though, i have managed a same day response and fix on
more than one occasion when I have been able to.

The place I was helping out recently as an interim had 4 hr response
time from Dell and they did respond in the time too, but then of
course that is the preimum they paid.

You are right though generally getting someone out same day is easier
if its a local person handling support.

--
Gamma gamma gamma chameleon
You come and glow, you come and glow.
Kick out the cats before you reply

Tx2 wrote:
In article ,
om, a.k.a Gama Chameleon
says...

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 14:46:23 +0000, Rob S
D wrote:


HP - Truly Excellent

Yep I'd agree there. My mate's PC at home failed. They came out next
day and swapped the CD writer. A few months later the HD failed. They
again came out the next day. Asked him if it was OK if they swapped
his (IIRC) 40 gig HD for an 80 gig one (IIRC) as that was now the
standard size at the time


Try getting the 'non-standard' components of HP's fixed out of
warranty...

I had a customer who's PSU blew, I couldn't get a spare for love nor
money, so i rebuilt the system into a 'normal' case, and then found the
front USB connector on the mainboard (which was a proprietary Asus) was
unique to that model, so no front USB for this customer who uses her
digital camera a lot.

The outcome for the sake of a £40 PSU? New case, new USB hub, and labour
charges, the whole lot totalling over £150.

She could have bought a new Dell for circa £300 quid of course, and had
the same issues in 18 months....

Who cares?

Seriously, it's great you can build your own machines and all (I do too)
but the fact is that it's cheaper for me to order, say, 11 machines for
the office and keep one for spares (not that I do) than build them
myself. Significantly cheaper, not to mention I don't have to spend a
day or two building them. It's also very hard to get good cheap cases
nowadays, you either have stupid looking ones (LEDs and neons
everywhere) which are for gamers, cost a fortune, but are nice to work
in, or you can get really cheap stuff that will fit in with your office
but it a nightmare to work in.

I'd much rather just phone up dell, tell them what I need, and two days
later have them all.

And yes, the tech support may suck, but it's probably better than
chasing up postage money for component returns when they fail. It's
getting a lot better now they are moving it back to Ireland (IIRC)...

peter wrote:
DaveW wrote:

Dell uses PROPRIETARY motherboards. They are NOT standard.



The Dell I worked on yesterday (~1yr old) had a standard mATX
motherboard, with 2 unusual features:
1, the CPU cooler consisted of a green plastic duct over the metalwork
led to a 120 mm fan on the rear, nice and quiet.
2, No AGP socket - the solder pads are there on the board, but no
socket. This one had onboard graphics. If you wanted to upgrade to
decent graphics you'd have to use a PCI card.
As far as I can see, they now use standard ATX power supplies (they
didn't used to).


Don't be so sure that the PSU is standard.

I recently worked on a Dell system purchased by its
owner in November.

The connections on both the motherboard and the PSU
/looked/ like normal ATX connectors, but a multimeter
revealed that the pins were not in the same order.

Since the problem with the system was insufficient
power after a RAM upgrade and the addition of two
more hard drives, a PSU replacement was necessary
and the owner opted to get a new PSU from Dell.
While placing that order it was confirmed by Dell
that both the new and the old PSU did not have
standard ATX connections.

"Tx2" wrote in message
t...
In article ,
, a.k.a GB says...

I can well believe the difficulties you mention with Dell.

However, on the plus side, they do at least test-run the systems before
shipping them, so that cuts down some of the problems. All the
components in
the system are tested first by the manufacturers and then by Dell when
they
test-run the system.

All this does is rule out any incompatibilities. Nothing, not even top
rate quality control can prevent electrical or mechanical breakdown.

Out of interest, what would you charge a customer for building and supplying
the following spec system box?

Celeron D 2.93 GHz 533 MHz FSB
256 MB RAM DDR
80 GB HD
CD-rewriter + software
DVD ROM + software
Case, PSU, kbd, mouse, motherboard (onboard graphics, sound and networking),
cables, basic speakers
Windows XP Home including full disks
Delivery

I accept that you probably would not spec a system like that, but can you
just play along with me, please. Can I guess that you would be at least 100
to 200 Pounds more than Dell?

Say, in a couple of years time the motherboard on the Dell blows up, and the
most practical solution is to supply a new case as well as a new
motherboard. Really, the only extra cost is going to be the cost of the new
case and the cost of transferring the disk drives from the old Dell PC to
the new case. Everything else is going to be the same work.

In article , says...

Gosh I remember the day of ISA graphics cards and you could watch windows
draw the drop list of a combo box so sloooowly.

I still have an early Windows video performance test program named WinTach
(1992 from Texas Instruments) which measured speed of drawing real world test
screens from Word, Excel, CAD and Paint software. Its result compared speed
to a 20 MHz 386 with standard VGA video. We got real excited when new 486 50
MHz systems with 8 bit ATI video got 20x and 40x ratings.

My AMD 3500+ with Matrox G550(4x AGP) gets 2000x and 4000x numbers on it :-)

I dont know how todays hotrod 3D cards might do, but we've come a long way.

Leythos wrote:
In article ,
says...

In article ,
, a.k.a Leythos says...


I would love to see him provide the part numbers and prices for this
also - but, I suspect that he'll never even try.

No i won't, and seeing as you seem to be moving rapidly toward
'personalising' this discussion in my direction, then that does nothing
but reinforce the reasons.

I've not only explained my reasons for disliking Dell, i've justified
them. YMMV, and I've clearly acknowledged that.

You are clearly working at a level way above the self-employed single
staff member support/consultancy business level.

I have my feet on the ground and finger on the pulse to *my customers*
requirements. What works for yours, doesn't necessarily work for mine,
and vice versa.


I've already told you, we support offices with as few as 3 systems. So,
with the exception that we don't support home users, we DO handle the
same type of clients that you do and we understand things like ROI and
Value to the clients. We would not be able to maintain 100% satisfaction
and 100% returning customer base without it.

You are the one that stated your ability to provide a better system, so,
show us - put your money where your mouth is.

Spec the posted requirement, full disclosure of parts and costs and
installation costs, and prove that you can offer a better solution. This
isn't personal, it's business, where money talks and BS don't go very
far.

I agree, he must of spent at least an hour typing replies to these
posts, so I'd love to see him spend the 10-15 minutes speccing it up. I
just tried and failed miserabley.