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What RAm for A7V8X-X?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 22nd 03, 05:25 PM
Devast8or
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What RAm for A7V8X-X?

Hi all,

I wanna buy this board http://www.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=A7V8X-X&langs=01
(an A7V8X-X), but RAM should I get for it?

As far as I can see PC1600 and PC2100 should be any problem, no matter how I
do it. PC3200 would work if I only use two banks (Do I _have_ to use two
banks, or is one fine?). But what about PC2700? It says "PC2700 Max to 4
banks only", but the board only has three mem banks.

I'm confuzzled. What RAM should I buy for this board?

TIA

Devast8or

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  #2  
Old July 22nd 03, 09:41 PM
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , "Devast8or"
wrote:

Hi all,

I wanna buy this board http://www.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=A7V8X-X&langs=01
(an A7V8X-X), but RAM should I get for it?

As far as I can see PC1600 and PC2100 should be any problem, no matter how I
do it. PC3200 would work if I only use two banks (Do I _have_ to use two
banks, or is one fine?). But what about PC2700? It says "PC2700 Max to 4
banks only", but the board only has three mem banks.

I'm confuzzled. What RAM should I buy for this board?

TIA

Devast8or

--
Spamfilter activated
To reach me via e-mail: ask me for an adress


When buying a -X board, download the original board manual, and the
-X board manual and compare them carefully, to see what functionality
they are missing. For example, the A7V8X has adjustable AGP voltage and
the A7V8X-X does not. There was a guy yesterday who was having what I
thought were AGP problems, but I couldn't reply to him "Adjust the AGP
voltage", because it is missing on that board. So, be careful when
buying the -X boards, because some have too much functionality removed.
This advice also applies if you plan on overclocking, as some of the
-X boards don't have the same clock adjustments.

To answer your question, a double sided DIMM is two banks. A single
sided DIMM is one bank. So, the PC3200 limit is one double sided DIMM
or two single sided DIMMs. The PC2700 limit is two double sided DIMMs
or a double sided plus two single sided DIMMs. The stated limits in the
manual have to do with signal reflections, and they get worse with
clock rate - that is why Asus recommends fewer "loads" on the memory
bus at higher memory clock speeds. Some memories are slightly better
than others in this respect, but there is no way of predicting which
brands are good (designs change too much to make this something you
can depend on year after year).

To figure out what brand of ram to buy, search in groups.google.com
and see whether people report the board as being "finicky" or
"sensitive" to the ram being used. If there are a lot of reports like
that, then buy branded RAM. If any ram seems to work, in the posts you
read, then try a generic RAM. If you are trying to max out the memory
on the board, expect to pay more for RAM to get it to work reliably.
In other words, placing a single 512MB stick in there (double sided),
probably any brand will work. Use the slot furthest from the processor,
when using a single stick. Use slots 1 and 3 for two sticks.

Also, search the forums of abxzone.com for your board model, as there
may be more comments over there.

HTH,
Paul
  #3  
Old July 22nd 03, 10:20 PM
Egil Solberg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Devast8or" wrote in message
k...
Hi all,

I wanna buy this board

http://www.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=A7V8X-X&langs=01
(an A7V8X-X), but RAM should I get for it?

As far as I can see PC1600 and PC2100 should be any problem, no matter how

I
do it. PC3200 would work if I only use two banks (Do I _have_ to use two
banks, or is one fine?). But what about PC2700? It says "PC2700 Max to 4
banks only", but the board only has three mem banks.

I'm confuzzled. What RAM should I buy for this board?


Adding to what Paul says, it is important that your RAM is good enough to
run at same frequency as the FSB.
If your CPU has 333MHz FSB, you should get PC2700 or better. For FSB=400MHz,
buy PC3200.
There is no problem buying better ram, let´s say PC3200 and run it at lower
speed, f.ex 333MHz as is PC2700 spec.
The limits with banks etc mentioned above do not apply to the RAM spec
exactly, it applies to the frequency the RAM is actually run at.
That means that you can still run 2 double-sided PC3200-modules at
PC2700-speed, or 1 at PC3200-speed. And last, if you´re lucky you can even
push more than the suggested in, but Asus does not recommend it.



  #4  
Old July 23rd 03, 01:35 AM
R_Supp
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Paul" wrote in message
...
In article , "Devast8or"
wrote:

Hi all,

I wanna buy this board

http://www.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=A7V8X-X&langs=01
(an A7V8X-X), but RAM should I get for it?

As far as I can see PC1600 and PC2100 should be any problem, no matter

how I
do it. PC3200 would work if I only use two banks (Do I _have_ to use two
banks, or is one fine?). But what about PC2700? It says "PC2700 Max to 4
banks only", but the board only has three mem banks.

I'm confuzzled. What RAM should I buy for this board?

TIA

Devast8or

--
Spamfilter activated
To reach me via e-mail: ask me for an adress


When buying a -X board, download the original board manual, and the
-X board manual and compare them carefully, to see what functionality
they are missing. For example, the A7V8X has adjustable AGP voltage and
the A7V8X-X does not. There was a guy yesterday who was having what I
thought were AGP problems, but I couldn't reply to him "Adjust the AGP
voltage", because it is missing on that board. So, be careful when
buying the -X boards, because some have too much functionality removed.
This advice also applies if you plan on overclocking, as some of the
-X boards don't have the same clock adjustments.

To answer your question, a double sided DIMM is two banks. A single
sided DIMM is one bank. So, the PC3200 limit is one double sided DIMM
or two single sided DIMMs. The PC2700 limit is two double sided DIMMs
or a double sided plus two single sided DIMMs. The stated limits in the
manual have to do with signal reflections, and they get worse with
clock rate - that is why Asus recommends fewer "loads" on the memory
bus at higher memory clock speeds. Some memories are slightly better
than others in this respect, but there is no way of predicting which
brands are good (designs change too much to make this something you
can depend on year after year).

To figure out what brand of ram to buy, search in groups.google.com
and see whether people report the board as being "finicky" or
"sensitive" to the ram being used. If there are a lot of reports like
that, then buy branded RAM. If any ram seems to work, in the posts you
read, then try a generic RAM. If you are trying to max out the memory
on the board, expect to pay more for RAM to get it to work reliably.
In other words, placing a single 512MB stick in there (double sided),
probably any brand will work. Use the slot furthest from the processor,
when using a single stick. Use slots 1 and 3 for two sticks.

I am not clear here but does using slots 1 and 3 apply to single sided ram
too ?
I am using this board too and my original stick of ram was a very generic
stick of Chinese ram, DDR400 @ 512 Mb. My CPU is an Athlon XP Tbred-b 2400.
Running Win XP Pro and using the latest AIDA 32 Enterprise version I was
getting a ram benchmark putting my system only 1 notch above a Duron 900
system.
I returned the single stick and got 2x s/sided sticks of Kingston DDR400
making 512Mb and this lifted my AIDA benchmark to the same level as in the
next paragraph. I expected higher as this A7V8X-X system is a tad faster
than my A7V333 system.

The confusion really sets in when my AV7333 system using XP 2000 chip and 2x
s/sided sticks of DDR333 ram @512Mb gives me a benchmark in the right area
for my system but puts the A7V8X-X in the same spot.
I am sorry for rambling on but I can see where Devast8or is coming from.
It just seems to me that if you can get the ram right, these boards are
quite fine.


  #5  
Old July 23rd 03, 01:37 AM
Mike Gorman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'm curios. Why use the furthest slot?

As usual, excellent answer.

Use the slot furthest from the processor,
when using a single stick.
HTH,
Paul



  #6  
Old July 23rd 03, 12:29 PM
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article [email protected], "Mike Gorman"
wrote:

I'm curios. Why use the furthest slot?

As usual, excellent answer.

Use the slot furthest from the processor,
when using a single stick.
HTH,
Paul


It places the discontinuity caused by the capacitive loading of the
chips next to the discontinuity caused by the end of the transmission
line :-) Or maybe, it just works better that way :-)))

Since a DDR bus is terminated at the end of the bus, the effect
should be minor (should make little difference). The case that
is usually worst for most people, is sticking a single DIMM next
to the processor. The theory there is that the rest of the memory
bus, after the stick, is a stub, and stubs are bad in T-line theory.

What is especially troubling for me, is what to tell someone who
owns a P4PE. There, the wiring of the control signals doesn't
allow my favorite advice to be used. So, the poor P4PE owner has
to place the single DIMM in one of the two slots nearest the
processor. And I don't hear many complaints from them, so what
should I be recommending... Hmm...

I wish I still had access to a good simulator. Unfortunately
they cost $20K-$35K for a license. That is how I like to settle
issues like this.

Paul
  #7  
Old July 23rd 03, 01:14 PM
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , "R_Supp"
wrote:

"Paul" wrote in message
...
In article , "Devast8or"
wrote:

Hi all,

I wanna buy this board

http://www.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=A7V8X-X&langs=01
(an A7V8X-X), but RAM should I get for it?

As far as I can see PC1600 and PC2100 should be any problem, no matter

how I
do it. PC3200 would work if I only use two banks (Do I _have_ to use two
banks, or is one fine?). But what about PC2700? It says "PC2700 Max to 4
banks only", but the board only has three mem banks.

I'm confuzzled. What RAM should I buy for this board?

TIA

Devast8or

--
Spamfilter activated
To reach me via e-mail: ask me for an adress


When buying a -X board, download the original board manual, and the
-X board manual and compare them carefully, to see what functionality
they are missing. For example, the A7V8X has adjustable AGP voltage and
the A7V8X-X does not. There was a guy yesterday who was having what I
thought were AGP problems, but I couldn't reply to him "Adjust the AGP
voltage", because it is missing on that board. So, be careful when
buying the -X boards, because some have too much functionality removed.
This advice also applies if you plan on overclocking, as some of the
-X boards don't have the same clock adjustments.

To answer your question, a double sided DIMM is two banks. A single
sided DIMM is one bank. So, the PC3200 limit is one double sided DIMM
or two single sided DIMMs. The PC2700 limit is two double sided DIMMs
or a double sided plus two single sided DIMMs. The stated limits in the
manual have to do with signal reflections, and they get worse with
clock rate - that is why Asus recommends fewer "loads" on the memory
bus at higher memory clock speeds. Some memories are slightly better
than others in this respect, but there is no way of predicting which
brands are good (designs change too much to make this something you
can depend on year after year).

To figure out what brand of ram to buy, search in groups.google.com
and see whether people report the board as being "finicky" or
"sensitive" to the ram being used. If there are a lot of reports like
that, then buy branded RAM. If any ram seems to work, in the posts you
read, then try a generic RAM. If you are trying to max out the memory
on the board, expect to pay more for RAM to get it to work reliably.
In other words, placing a single 512MB stick in there (double sided),
probably any brand will work. Use the slot furthest from the processor,
when using a single stick. Use slots 1 and 3 for two sticks.


I am not clear here but does using slots 1 and 3 apply to single sided ram
too ?


Yes, the "1 and 3" rule spreads out the loading on the bus, so the
transmission line impedance doesn't dip as much as it would if the
sticks are close together. This should cause less of a reflection
from the mismatch that a DIMM causes. Single sided DIMMs cause less
of a reflection than a double sided DIMM, but spreading them out
still helps them.

I am using this board too and my original stick of ram was a very generic
stick of Chinese ram, DDR400 @ 512 Mb. My CPU is an Athlon XP Tbred-b 2400.
Running Win XP Pro and using the latest AIDA 32 Enterprise version I was
getting a ram benchmark putting my system only 1 notch above a Duron 900
system.
I returned the single stick and got 2x s/sided sticks of Kingston DDR400
making 512Mb and this lifted my AIDA benchmark to the same level as in the
next paragraph. I expected higher as this A7V8X-X system is a tad faster
than my A7V333 system.

The confusion really sets in when my AV7333 system using XP 2000 chip and 2x
s/sided sticks of DDR333 ram @512Mb gives me a benchmark in the right area
for my system but puts the A7V8X-X in the same spot.
I am sorry for rambling on but I can see where Devast8or is coming from.
It just seems to me that if you can get the ram right, these boards are
quite fine.


You are mixing in memory timing issues. The effects I am referring to
are analog electronics - they either make or break the interconnect.
If the analog is bad, then you'll have constant random memory errors
happening.

The memory chips themselves have timing parameters, as to how long each
stage of a memory transfer takes. The parameter are stored in a little
chip on the DIMM, called the SPD EEPROM. If you set a motherboard memory
to "AUTO", these suggested timings are read out of the SPD and used
to set up the memory. If you buy a CAS3 stick, then expect it to give
lower memory bandwidth numbers than a CAS2 stick, at the same memory
clock frequency (but the CAS3 will be cheaper). Both of the DIMMs will
be equally affected by the "analog electronics", but the silicon inside
the memory chips on one of them is able to give data faster than the
other one. So, they are two very separate issues.

You can set the memory to "Manual", and tune the memory timing numbers
yourself. Doing so harvests whatever margin for uncertainty that the
manufacturer included when they made the DIMM. Some DIMMs have been
shown to have tremendous potential for higher performance (I read of
a DDR266 stick that went all the way to DDR500!). But the DIMM market
is very fluid, and you cannot expect the same chips or PCBs to be used
in memory products for more than a few months (many companies don't make
their own product - there is even a company that just makes standard
blank DIMM PCBs for other companies to put chips on).

Another behind-the-scenes effect, is the BIOS on some motherboards
automatically slows down the memory clock when you add more DIMMs.
You have to check the BIOS screens, or use a utility, to find out
what is really happening to the memory clock rate and memory timing
parameters (i.e. 2-3-3-7 1T)

I have even found the part numbers for DIMMs stored in the BIOS code.
This means that Asus checks for certain brands of memory, and ignores
some of the timing info in the SPD when they see those particular
sticks of memory.

Another thing that affects memory benchmarks, is when the processor
clock and the memory clock are in a so-called "1:1" or synchronous
relationship. Some digital retiming logic can be removed from the
memory path when this special timing relationship exists. This is
called "PAT" by Intel, on the 875, but the effect exists in many
Northbridge chips. So, sometimes running a FSB at 333 and memory at 333
can give better performance than FSB at 333 and memory at 400. You
might have to boost the memory to 500 before the faster memory clock
compensates for the extra delay that was added to the memory timing
path.

So, there is a lot of monkey business that goes into making memory
work. And good pictures or tutorial articles are hard to find.

HTH,
Paul

P.S. If you want to see what memory bus signals look like, there is a
5.9MB download on the Micron web site, and the back few pages of
the document shows various test cases that Micron was using. The
square box in each picture measures what is called the "eye opening",
and the bigger the box is, the more error-free the memory will be.
Very subtle changes in the construction of memory chips or printed
circuit boards can affect how "wiggly" these signals are - so sometimes
whatever "rules" we come up with, just don't seem to work out. The
more DIMMs you use, the more ringing you see in the signals, and
more the "eye opening" shrinks, leading to the possibility that
you'll see random memory errors. Slowing down the memory clock
when using many DIMMs, gives the signals more time to settle down
between data bits. This is the "analog side" of memory design.

http://download.micron.com/pdf/technotes/TN4607.pdf (see back pages)
  #8  
Old July 23rd 03, 07:08 PM
Devast8or
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Paul wrote:
In article ,
"Devast8or" wrote:

Hi all,

I wanna buy this board
http://www.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=A7V8X-X&langs=01 (an A7V8X-X),
but RAM should I get for it?

As far as I can see PC1600 and PC2100 should be any problem, no
matter how I do it. PC3200 would work if I only use two banks (Do I
_have_ to use two banks, or is one fine?). But what about PC2700? It
says "PC2700 Max to 4 banks only", but the board only has three mem
banks.

I'm confuzzled. What RAM should I buy for this board?

TIA

Devast8or

--
Spamfilter activated
To reach me via e-mail: ask me for an adress


When buying a -X board, download the original board manual, and the
-X board manual and compare them carefully, to see what functionality
they are missing. For example, the A7V8X has adjustable AGP voltage
and
the A7V8X-X does not. There was a guy yesterday who was having what I
thought were AGP problems, but I couldn't reply to him "Adjust the AGP
voltage", because it is missing on that board. So, be careful when
buying the -X boards, because some have too much functionality
removed.
This advice also applies if you plan on overclocking, as some of the
-X boards don't have the same clock adjustments.


Thanks for the tip. I took a look on Asus.com and saw a number of
differences, but nothing I can't live with. I'll take a look at the manuals
some day soon.

To answer your question, a double sided DIMM is two banks. A single
sided DIMM is one bank. So, the PC3200 limit is one double sided DIMM
or two single sided DIMMs. The PC2700 limit is two double sided DIMMs
or a double sided plus two single sided DIMMs. The stated limits in
the manual have to do with signal reflections, and they get worse with
clock rate - that is why Asus recommends fewer "loads" on the memory
bus at higher memory clock speeds. Some memories are slightly better
than others in this respect, but there is no way of predicting which
brands are good (designs change too much to make this something you
can depend on year after year).


Ah, I see. That makes a lot more sense that what I quoted from Asus.com

So if I buy one 512MB PC2700 block, I should be home free, right?

To figure out what brand of ram to buy, search in groups.google.com
and see whether people report the board as being "finicky" or
"sensitive" to the ram being used. If there are a lot of reports like
that, then buy branded RAM. If any ram seems to work, in the posts you
read, then try a generic RAM. If you are trying to max out the memory
on the board, expect to pay more for RAM to get it to work reliably.
In other words, placing a single 512MB stick in there (double sided),
probably any brand will work. Use the slot furthest from the
processor,
when using a single stick. Use slots 1 and 3 for two sticks.

Also, search the forums of abxzone.com for your board model, as there
may be more comments over there.

HTH,
Paul


I'll probably buy Kingston. It's a good price and it's mentioned as one of
the brands working with the A7V8X (non -X) at PC3200. I expect that to work
with this board too.

Thanks for the answers everyone.

Devast8or

--
Spamfilter activated
To reach me via e-mail: ask me for an adress




  #9  
Old July 27th 03, 04:47 AM
William
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"John" wrote in message
...
I used 2 sticks of Kingston 2700 in my board 256 meg each works fine
"Devast8or" wrote in message
k...
Paul wrote:
In article ,
"Devast8or" wrote:

Hi all,

I wanna buy this board
http://www.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=A7V8X-X&langs=01 (an A7V8X-X),
but RAM should I get for it?

As far as I can see PC1600 and PC2100 should be any problem, no
matter how I do it. PC3200 would work if I only use two banks (Do I
_have_ to use two banks, or is one fine?). But what about PC2700? It
says "PC2700 Max to 4 banks only", but the board only has three mem
banks.

I'm confuzzled. What RAM should I buy for this board?

TIA

Devast8or

--
Spamfilter activated
To reach me via e-mail: ask me for an adress

When buying a -X board, download the original board manual, and the
-X board manual and compare them carefully, to see what functionality
they are missing. For example, the A7V8X has adjustable AGP voltage
and
the A7V8X-X does not. There was a guy yesterday who was having what I
thought were AGP problems, but I couldn't reply to him "Adjust the AGP
voltage", because it is missing on that board. So, be careful when
buying the -X boards, because some have too much functionality
removed.
This advice also applies if you plan on overclocking, as some of the
-X boards don't have the same clock adjustments.


Thanks for the tip. I took a look on Asus.com and saw a number of
differences, but nothing I can't live with. I'll take a look at the

manuals
some day soon.

To answer your question, a double sided DIMM is two banks. A single
sided DIMM is one bank. So, the PC3200 limit is one double sided DIMM
or two single sided DIMMs. The PC2700 limit is two double sided DIMMs
or a double sided plus two single sided DIMMs. The stated limits in
the manual have to do with signal reflections, and they get worse with
clock rate - that is why Asus recommends fewer "loads" on the memory
bus at higher memory clock speeds. Some memories are slightly better
than others in this respect, but there is no way of predicting which
brands are good (designs change too much to make this something you
can depend on year after year).


Ah, I see. That makes a lot more sense that what I quoted from Asus.com



So if I buy one 512MB PC2700 block, I should be home free, right?

To figure out what brand of ram to buy, search in groups.google.com
and see whether people report the board as being "finicky" or
"sensitive" to the ram being used. If there are a lot of reports like
that, then buy branded RAM. If any ram seems to work, in the posts you
read, then try a generic RAM. If you are trying to max out the memory
on the board, expect to pay more for RAM to get it to work reliably.
In other words, placing a single 512MB stick in there (double sided),
probably any brand will work. Use the slot furthest from the
processor,
when using a single stick. Use slots 1 and 3 for two sticks.

Also, search the forums of abxzone.com for your board model, as there
may be more comments over there.

HTH,
Paul


I'll probably buy Kingston. It's a good price and it's mentioned as one

of
the brands working with the A7V8X (non -X) at PC3200. I expect that to

work
with this board too.

Thanks for the answers everyone.

Devast8or

--
Spamfilter activated
To reach me via e-mail: ask me for an adress

you can (3) pc 2100 ,(2) pc2700,(1) pc 3200 on the asus A7V8X mother and

the a7v8x-x is run off the of the a7v8x with out some of the features like
sara and others.







  #10  
Old August 2nd 03, 02:05 PM
Paul D. Motzenbecker, Jr.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Devast8or,
Greetings and hallucinations from just north of Fantasy Land (Washington,
DC)!
The Asus website has a list of approved memory manufacturers and the exact
products that will work. Be aware that each stick of DDR SDRAM has two banks
on it. That is something to think about when you purchase RAM. What CPU are
you going to be putting in this board? If you use a Barton (333 MHz bus)
CPU, you will want memory that is not overclocked at that bus speed (PC 2700
or higher aka DDR 333) Asus recommends PC 3200 aka DDR 400 SDRAM. Here is a
link:
http://www.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=A7N8X-X&langs=01
Peace,
Paul
"Devast8or" wrote in message
k...
Hi all,

I wanna buy this board

http://www.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=A7V8X-X&langs=01
(an A7V8X-X), but RAM should I get for it?

As far as I can see PC1600 and PC2100 should be any problem, no matter how

I
do it. PC3200 would work if I only use two banks (Do I _have_ to use two
banks, or is one fine?). But what about PC2700? It says "PC2700 Max to 4
banks only", but the board only has three mem banks.

I'm confuzzled. What RAM should I buy for this board?

TIA

Devast8or

--
Spamfilter activated
To reach me via e-mail: ask me for an adress







 




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