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Newbie P4P800 Deluxe Raid
I am just setting up a new P4P800 Deluxe. I have a pair of 60G ATA133 drives
connected to the RAID masters and configured as mode 1. I would like to connect an additional 80G ATA133 drive for data, backups etc. Can I connect this to one of the RAID connectors and run it as a straight ATA133, not RAID, or should I connect it to one of the ATA100 IDE connectors. Thanks John |
#2
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You can use the raidcontroler without any problem
"John Greenleaf" wrote in message ... I am just setting up a new P4P800 Deluxe. I have a pair of 60G ATA133 drives connected to the RAID masters and configured as mode 1. I would like to connect an additional 80G ATA133 drive for data, backups etc. Can I connect this to one of the RAID connectors and run it as a straight ATA133, not RAID, or should I connect it to one of the ATA100 IDE connectors. Thanks John |
#3
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Connect to IDE connector ATA100.
-- DaveW "John Greenleaf" wrote in message ... I am just setting up a new P4P800 Deluxe. I have a pair of 60G ATA133 drives connected to the RAID masters and configured as mode 1. I would like to connect an additional 80G ATA133 drive for data, backups etc. Can I connect this to one of the RAID connectors and run it as a straight ATA133, not RAID, or should I connect it to one of the ATA100 IDE connectors. Thanks John |
#4
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"John Greenleaf" wrote in message
... I am just setting up a new P4P800 Deluxe. I have a pair of 60G ATA133 drives connected to the RAID masters and configured as mode 1. I would like to connect an additional 80G ATA133 drive for data, backups etc. Can I connect this to one of the RAID connectors and run it as a straight ATA133, not RAID, or should I connect it to one of the ATA100 IDE connectors. Thanks John I'm not a 100% sure I understand your question (but I think I do) and I ain't no expert in this sort of stuff, but I do have a P4P800 Deluxe with 4 hard disks, 2 of which are configured as a Raid mirror. I don't think you can have more than one type of raid configuration on this board with this Via controller. You either have RAID 1 (2 disks), RAID 0 (2 disks), RAID 0+1 (4 disks needed). JBOD, "just a bunch of disks," which means what it says, not an array as such but rather just random disks on the channels, could also have 1,2,3, or 4 separate disks that would simply be treated as 1-4 separate disks not unlike the same thing as if they were on a regular IDE channel. But I don't think you can have 2 disks treated as a RAID mirror, plus 1 disk treated as JBOD. Likewise, I don't think you can have 2 disks treated as a striping array, plus 1 disk treated as JBOD. I could be wrong about this but I think not. Check the manual closely to be sure. So, to answer your question, I think that if your intention is to have a disk array of 2 disks on the Via controller using the RAID channels as a mirror or a stripe, plus another disk for backup, you need to put the backup disk on the regular primary IDE channel (assuming here that you have optical drives on your secondary IDE channel) -- don't mix optical and hard disks on the same channel -- gives bad karma unless somehow the controller people have figured out a way to do that reliably. Obviously, the Intel controller on the regular ide channels is limited to ATA-100, which will degrade performance VERY SLIGHTLY but probably not noticeably, especially if the drive is used for backup purposes. If it were me, I'd probably rather have my data in a mirror, and a separate drive for the OS, which I'd back up with Norton Ghost or somesuch but would not want in a RAID array. But that is just me so don't pay it any mind. HTH. ken |
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Thanks Ken.
Still learning, slow but sure. I am glade you mentioned Ghost. I today tried to run Norton Ghost 2003 and it was an utter disaster. I thought I would try to make an image of the RAID mirror on the third drive. When Ghost rebooted to do the clone I got a general protection fault. If I told it to skip the Ghost and boot XP it came back out of memory. It took some while to get ride of Ghost. Have you used it? Can it be done? Thanks John "Ken Fox" wrote in message ... "John Greenleaf" wrote in message ... I am just setting up a new P4P800 Deluxe. I have a pair of 60G ATA133 drives connected to the RAID masters and configured as mode 1. I would like to connect an additional 80G ATA133 drive for data, backups etc. Can I connect this to one of the RAID connectors and run it as a straight ATA133, not RAID, or should I connect it to one of the ATA100 IDE connectors. Thanks John I'm not a 100% sure I understand your question (but I think I do) and I ain't no expert in this sort of stuff, but I do have a P4P800 Deluxe with 4 hard disks, 2 of which are configured as a Raid mirror. I don't think you can have more than one type of raid configuration on this board with this Via controller. You either have RAID 1 (2 disks), RAID 0 (2 disks), RAID 0+1 (4 disks needed). JBOD, "just a bunch of disks," which means what it says, not an array as such but rather just random disks on the channels, could also have 1,2,3, or 4 separate disks that would simply be treated as 1-4 separate disks not unlike the same thing as if they were on a regular IDE channel. But I don't think you can have 2 disks treated as a RAID mirror, plus 1 disk treated as JBOD. Likewise, I don't think you can have 2 disks treated as a striping array, plus 1 disk treated as JBOD. I could be wrong about this but I think not. Check the manual closely to be sure. So, to answer your question, I think that if your intention is to have a disk array of 2 disks on the Via controller using the RAID channels as a mirror or a stripe, plus another disk for backup, you need to put the backup disk on the regular primary IDE channel (assuming here that you have optical drives on your secondary IDE channel) -- don't mix optical and hard disks on the same channel -- gives bad karma unless somehow the controller people have figured out a way to do that reliably. Obviously, the Intel controller on the regular ide channels is limited to ATA-100, which will degrade performance VERY SLIGHTLY but probably not noticeably, especially if the drive is used for backup purposes. If it were me, I'd probably rather have my data in a mirror, and a separate drive for the OS, which I'd back up with Norton Ghost or somesuch but would not want in a RAID array. But that is just me so don't pay it any mind. HTH. ken |
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"John Greenleaf" wrote in message
... Thanks Ken. Still learning, slow but sure. I am glade you mentioned Ghost. I today tried to run Norton Ghost 2003 and it was an utter disaster. I thought I would try to make an image of the RAID mirror on the third drive. When Ghost rebooted to do the clone I got a general protection fault. If I told it to skip the Ghost and boot XP it came back out of memory. It took some while to get ride of Ghost. Have you used it? Can it be done? Thanks John Hi John, I have used Norton Ghost 2003 (as part of my Norton Systemworks 2003 package) for imaging both my RAID Mirror (both drives of course have the same thing on them), and for my system disk. I do run Windows 2000 SP4 which is relevant perhaps in imaging the system disk but probably not in imaging your data. I have no experience with Windows XP, especially as it regards Norton Ghost. It is however my understanding that there are issues with XP that are not present with W2K. With W2K it is possible to reliably image a disk PARTITION and then ultimately dump it back onto another disk's partition or for that matter onto a formatted disk that has only 1 partition. From what I have read in newsgroups (and have not tried or been able to verify it), with Windows XP Norton Ghost only works if you image the entire drive that your system partition is on, be it a multipartition disk or a single partition HD. What I have read is that the imaging process appears to go normally but that when you try to restore Windows XP it will not work unless the image has the contents of the entire drive on it. Once again, I can't verify this so I don't know if I'm just spreading misinformation. Here is what I have done, and it works terrifically. I have a SATA HD that I have partitioned into ~35GB for my system/windows/programs partition. This is really way more than I need and I could probably have gotten along just fine with 15 or 20GB which would have allowed plenty of headroom for the Swap file and also for defragmenting. The balance of that disk I use as a separate NTFS partition for videos, tv shows from my capture card, Divx movie clips, etc. If I had no interest in using that extra space, I could easily have gotten a 37GB WD 10K Raptor SATA drive which would have had some speed benefits and been plenty big for the system partition. I have two Maxtor 160GB drives running as a mirror, strictly for data, scanned images, etc. etc. These are of course on the Via RAID channels, 1 each on each primary channel. The two secondary ide positions on the raid channels are unoccupied. Then, I have another drive, a WD 160GB 2MB cache drive which is primary on the regular primary IDE channel. I have this formatted for NTFS. The purpose of this drive is strictly for ghost images. It is incredibly fast and easy to make ghost image files onto another hard disk in the same box, and the P4P800 Deluxe has plenty of ports to plug them into. The issue here would be one of space in your case. Hard disks are so unbelievably cheap on rebate deals these days that the expense was secondary for me. I bought the 160GB 7200rpm WD 2MB cache drive for less than $60 US on a recent rebate deal from Compusa.com. As you can see, I have oodles of hard disks in my box, but they were all purchased ultra-cheaply and recently. If the HDs had cost what HDs were costing even 6 months ago I would never have even considered this sort of a setup, but with 120GB drives selling for as low as $40 after rebate, and 160GB drives in the $60 to $80 range, it is pretty cheap to go whole hog. I especially like two aspects of what I've done: the RAID mirror which offers data redundancy, plus the separate HD I use for nothing but ghosted images. If you make a mistake screwing around with your system, if you load some software that causes problems, it is a pretty simple matter to stick that ghost boot floppy in the floppy drive and tell ghost to write over your system partition with your most recent disk image. I make the disk images about every week (they run maybe 2.5 GB each) so if I have to restore from a ghosted image it is very quick and I find it very reliable. One thing you have to do when you make the ghost images is to create a separate directory for each ghost image file, or you will find that older files get overwritten even though you have named them differently. But that is a small bone to pick. I don't know that I can explain the problems you are having with Ghost. I think it is best to run ghost off a boot floppy rather than to tell the program within windows to make a ghost image. This will work best for restores as well. Obviously, if you end up imitating any of the aspects of the system I've set up, you need to be careful with your boot menu in the bios so that you end up booting from the right disk! Good luck, ken "Ken Fox" wrote in message ... "John Greenleaf" wrote in message ... I am just setting up a new P4P800 Deluxe. I have a pair of 60G ATA133 drives connected to the RAID masters and configured as mode 1. I would like to connect an additional 80G ATA133 drive for data, backups etc. Can I connect this to one of the RAID connectors and run it as a straight ATA133, not RAID, or should I connect it to one of the ATA100 IDE connectors. Thanks John I'm not a 100% sure I understand your question (but I think I do) and I ain't no expert in this sort of stuff, but I do have a P4P800 Deluxe with 4 hard disks, 2 of which are configured as a Raid mirror. I don't think you can have more than one type of raid configuration on this board with this Via controller. You either have RAID 1 (2 disks), RAID 0 (2 disks), RAID 0+1 (4 disks needed). JBOD, "just a bunch of disks," which means what it says, not an array as such but rather just random disks on the channels, could also have 1,2,3, or 4 separate disks that would simply be treated as 1-4 separate disks not unlike the same thing as if they were on a regular IDE channel. But I don't think you can have 2 disks treated as a RAID mirror, plus 1 disk treated as JBOD. Likewise, I don't think you can have 2 disks treated as a striping array, plus 1 disk treated as JBOD. I could be wrong about this but I think not. Check the manual closely to be sure. So, to answer your question, I think that if your intention is to have a disk array of 2 disks on the Via controller using the RAID channels as a mirror or a stripe, plus another disk for backup, you need to put the backup disk on the regular primary IDE channel (assuming here that you have optical drives on your secondary IDE channel) -- don't mix optical and hard disks on the same channel -- gives bad karma unless somehow the controller people have figured out a way to do that reliably. Obviously, the Intel controller on the regular ide channels is limited to ATA-100, which will degrade performance VERY SLIGHTLY but probably not noticeably, especially if the drive is used for backup purposes. If it were me, I'd probably rather have my data in a mirror, and a separate drive for the OS, which I'd back up with Norton Ghost or somesuch but would not want in a RAID array. But that is just me so don't pay it any mind. HTH. ken |
#7
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"Ken Fox" wrote in message ... "John Greenleaf" wrote in message ... Thanks Ken. Still learning, slow but sure. I am glade you mentioned Ghost. I today tried to run Norton Ghost 2003 and it was an utter disaster. I thought I would try to make an image of the RAID mirror on the third drive. When Ghost rebooted to do the clone I got a general protection fault. If I told it to skip the Ghost and boot XP it came back out of memory. It took some while to get ride of Ghost. Have you used it? Can it be done? Thanks John Hi John, I have used Norton Ghost 2003 (as part of my Norton Systemworks 2003 package) for imaging both my RAID Mirror (both drives of course have the same thing on them), and for my system disk. I do run Windows 2000 SP4 which is relevant perhaps in imaging the system disk but probably not in imaging your data. I have no experience with Windows XP, especially as it regards Norton Ghost. It is however my understanding that there are issues with XP that are not present with W2K. With W2K it is possible to reliably image a disk PARTITION and then ultimately dump it back onto another disk's partition or for that matter onto a formatted disk that has only 1 partition. From what I have read in newsgroups (and have not tried or been able to verify it), with Windows XP Norton Ghost only works if you image the entire drive that your system partition is on, be it a multipartition disk or a single partition HD. What I have read is that the imaging process appears to go normally but that when you try to restore Windows XP it will not work unless the image has the contents of the entire drive on it. Once again, I can't verify this so I don't know if I'm just spreading misinformation. Here is what I have done, and it works terrifically. I have a SATA HD that I have partitioned into ~35GB for my system/windows/programs partition. This is really way more than I need and I could probably have gotten along just fine with 15 or 20GB which would have allowed plenty of headroom for the Swap file and also for defragmenting. The balance of that disk I use as a separate NTFS partition for videos, tv shows from my capture card, Divx movie clips, etc. If I had no interest in using that extra space, I could easily have gotten a 37GB WD 10K Raptor SATA drive which would have had some speed benefits and been plenty big for the system partition. I have two Maxtor 160GB drives running as a mirror, strictly for data, scanned images, etc. etc. These are of course on the Via RAID channels, 1 each on each primary channel. The two secondary ide positions on the raid channels are unoccupied. Then, I have another drive, a WD 160GB 2MB cache drive which is primary on the regular primary IDE channel. I have this formatted for NTFS. The purpose of this drive is strictly for ghost images. It is incredibly fast and easy to make ghost image files onto another hard disk in the same box, and the P4P800 Deluxe has plenty of ports to plug them into. The issue here would be one of space in your case. Hard disks are so unbelievably cheap on rebate deals these days that the expense was secondary for me. I bought the 160GB 7200rpm WD 2MB cache drive for less than $60 US on a recent rebate deal from Compusa.com. As you can see, I have oodles of hard disks in my box, but they were all purchased ultra-cheaply and recently. If the HDs had cost what HDs were costing even 6 months ago I would never have even considered this sort of a setup, but with 120GB drives selling for as low as $40 after rebate, and 160GB drives in the $60 to $80 range, it is pretty cheap to go whole hog. I especially like two aspects of what I've done: the RAID mirror which offers data redundancy, plus the separate HD I use for nothing but ghosted images. If you make a mistake screwing around with your system, if you load some software that causes problems, it is a pretty simple matter to stick that ghost boot floppy in the floppy drive and tell ghost to write over your system partition with your most recent disk image. I make the disk images about every week (they run maybe 2.5 GB each) so if I have to restore from a ghosted image it is very quick and I find it very reliable. One thing you have to do when you make the ghost images is to create a separate directory for each ghost image file, or you will find that older files get overwritten even though you have named them differently. But that is a small bone to pick. I don't know that I can explain the problems you are having with Ghost. I think it is best to run ghost off a boot floppy rather than to tell the program within windows to make a ghost image. This will work best for restores as well. Obviously, if you end up imitating any of the aspects of the system I've set up, you need to be careful with your boot menu in the bios so that you end up booting from the right disk! Good luck, ken Hi Ken I have used Ghost copy to image in the past and found it very useful. I ran it on my previous motherboard a P4S8X and XP with no problem. On the P4P800 I am running IDE Enhanced mode which is supposed to be for 2K and XP. I have not tried changing to Compatible mode, MS DOS, Win95/98/NT. Which mode are you using? Thanks John "Ken Fox" wrote in message ... "John Greenleaf" wrote in message ... I am just setting up a new P4P800 Deluxe. I have a pair of 60G ATA133 drives connected to the RAID masters and configured as mode 1. I would like to connect an additional 80G ATA133 drive for data, backups etc. Can I connect this to one of the RAID connectors and run it as a straight ATA133, not RAID, or should I connect it to one of the ATA100 IDE connectors. Thanks John I'm not a 100% sure I understand your question (but I think I do) and I ain't no expert in this sort of stuff, but I do have a P4P800 Deluxe with 4 hard disks, 2 of which are configured as a Raid mirror. I don't think you can have more than one type of raid configuration on this board with this Via controller. You either have RAID 1 (2 disks), RAID 0 (2 disks), RAID 0+1 (4 disks needed). JBOD, "just a bunch of disks," which means what it says, not an array as such but rather just random disks on the channels, could also have 1,2,3, or 4 separate disks that would simply be treated as 1-4 separate disks not unlike the same thing as if they were on a regular IDE channel. But I don't think you can have 2 disks treated as a RAID mirror, plus 1 disk treated as JBOD. Likewise, I don't think you can have 2 disks treated as a striping array, plus 1 disk treated as JBOD. I could be wrong about this but I think not. Check the manual closely to be sure. So, to answer your question, I think that if your intention is to have a disk array of 2 disks on the Via controller using the RAID channels as a mirror or a stripe, plus another disk for backup, you need to put the backup disk on the regular primary IDE channel (assuming here that you have optical drives on your secondary IDE channel) -- don't mix optical and hard disks on the same channel -- gives bad karma unless somehow the controller people have figured out a way to do that reliably. Obviously, the Intel controller on the regular ide channels is limited to ATA-100, which will degrade performance VERY SLIGHTLY but probably not noticeably, especially if the drive is used for backup purposes. If it were me, I'd probably rather have my data in a mirror, and a separate drive for the OS, which I'd back up with Norton Ghost or somesuch but would not want in a RAID array. But that is just me so don't pay it any mind. HTH. ken |
#8
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"John Greenleaf" wrote in message
... Hi Ken I have used Ghost copy to image in the past and found it very useful. I ran it on my previous motherboard a P4S8X and XP with no problem. On the P4P800 I am running IDE Enhanced mode which is supposed to be for 2K and XP. I have not tried changing to Compatible mode, MS DOS, Win95/98/NT. Which mode are you using? Thanks John I guess I'm not really sure what you are asking; are you referring to Motherboard Bios settings or to the Norton Ghost program? I'm using both Ghost and the mobo at default settings more or less (I'm running a slight overclock but that is immaterial as the PCI/IDE is set at 33/66). If they end up being "enhanced IDE mode" by default, than that is what I have. I would assume so, because very few people would buy a relatively new mobo like the P4P800 Deluxe and load a legacy OS on it such as W9x or NT 4.0 For one thing, I don't think that NT 4 even recognizes USB 1.1, and in any event I'd be shocked if it could recognize USB 2.0, and the board is full of USB 2 chips and ports. Good luck, ken |
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