Problem with built-in sound when upgrading

Hi all,

I am hoping very much that someone can shed some light on this mystery (to
me anyway). This is the third time I have run into this situation.

Someone has a system that they want upgraded; they also would like to keep
all of their currently installed programs intact.
I get a new motherboard with built in sound (most have it nowadays); I then
attach their old drives to the new motherboard.
I then proceed to boot windows 98 into safe mode and remove all drivers;
reboot (many times) and windows finds the drivers it needs for the new
hardware. Now everything seems to work just fine, EXCEPT the sound. No
matter what I try, I cannot get the sound to work. The drivers are
installed properly but windows still does not see it.
This has happened on entirely different equipment each time. Two systems
were originally Compaqs and one was originally a Gateway and the new
motherboards were also different each time (1 Asus, 1 Soyo - actually not
new and the sound worked perfectly fine in previous clean install, 1 Intel).
The only way that I have been able to get sound into these systems so far
has been by installing a seperate sound card.
Why should the sound card work and not the built in sound? I'm getting
tired of buying seperate sound cards for these systems. Does anyone know
what the scoop is here?

Thank you very much to anyone that can help me.

Jon Greene

On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:10:49 -0500, "Jon Greene"
wrote:

Hi all,

I am hoping very much that someone can shed some light on this mystery (to
me anyway). This is the third time I have run into this situation.

Someone has a system that they want upgraded; they also would like to keep
all of their currently installed programs intact.
I get a new motherboard with built in sound (most have it nowadays); I then
attach their old drives to the new motherboard.

Details please...
What motherboard make, model, and revision too IF different revisions
used different audio codecs.

More info about the sound might help too... Does it use a dedicated
audio chip (which/what) ? Or, perhaps Southbridge-integrated as often
found on nForce or Via chipset boards (mention of the specific
Southbridge might then help too).

I then proceed to boot windows 98 into safe mode and remove all drivers;
reboot (many times) and windows finds the drivers it needs for the new
hardware.

Generally, the method I usually use is to boot to safe mode, open
Regedit, select the HKLM-Enum key (abbreviated) and make a backup
"Reg" file of it, then DELETE it. Delete the whole Enum key. Then
reboot. After Everything that can be Plug-N-Played, is, when it
prompts for reboot, choose "NO" (or whatever) so it keeps plugging and
playing along till it's finished... it'll require fewer reboots that
way. After 3 reboots or so you'll want to go into Device Manager and
note the duplicate entries with exclaimation marks... For each entry
with an exclaimation mark that has a "duplicate" without the
exclaimation mark, delete that duplicate without the exclaimation
mark. Typically those entries needed deleted are (but not always)
video, keyboard, DMA, related. If after a reboot there's still the
exclamation mark, and you'd tried suppling drivers, then delete both
duplicate entries and reboot again. That's a generic procedure, if
familiar with the specific components more precise methods can be
used, but are only slightly quicker, not any different in the end
result.


Now everything seems to work just fine, EXCEPT the sound. No
matter what I try, I cannot get the sound to work. The drivers are
installed properly but windows still does not see it.

So if you go into Control Panel | Multimedia there's no device listed?
Most often it's just a matter of having the wrong driver, though some
sound card drivers are pretty bad, require manual steps like browsing
to the driver INF files within the Add-New-Hardware Wizard, and being
somewhat familiar with the particular sound, like if it has additional
"master" entries in Device Manager like "PCI Multifunction Device"
type entries in addtion to those under "Sound, Video, and Game
Contorllers" Category.


This has happened on entirely different equipment each time. Two systems
were originally Compaqs and one was originally a Gateway and the new
motherboards were also different each time (1 Asus, 1 Soyo - actually not
new and the sound worked perfectly fine in previous clean install, 1 Intel).
The only way that I have been able to get sound into these systems so far
has been by installing a seperate sound card.
Why should the sound card work and not the built in sound?

Had you installed the appropraite motherboard chipset drivers?

I'm getting
tired of buying seperate sound cards for these systems. Does anyone know
what the scoop is here?

I think it doesn't have much if anything to do with the fact that
they're motherboard-integrated, that you simply have a driver problem.
If you can determine that the driver is the newer WDM type instead of
the "VXD" type then a Microsoft WDM update might be needed. Offhand I
only know of a couple of locations for downloading it, Microsoft makes
you submit a special request for this same file:

http://support.microsoft.com/default...en-us%3b242937
http://pcscomp.com/support/downloads.html
http://pcscomp.com/support/files/Win98se/274370usa8.exe

Now that my morning coffee is kicking in, I see that this file is
supposedly for Win98 Second Edition, so it may not apply to you but I
leave the links in case it does.


Dave

"kony" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:10:49 -0500, "Jon Greene"
wrote:

snip

Details please...
What motherboard make, model, and revision too IF different revisions
used different audio codecs.

Specific example: original system = Gateway GP6-350 w/Intel motherboard
w/built-in sound (Creative ES1373 audio chip).
new motherboard = Asus P4P800-VM w/built-in sound (ADI 1980 6-channel audio
codec) (link to board =
http://usa.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=P4P800-VM&langs=09 ).I can get no sound
from this system (gonna try putting in a new sound card in the next couple
of days). There was something that I tried to do (can't remember what at the
moment) and it gave me an error message saying that the digital output had
been intercepted by another device but it wouldn't say what the device was.
This machine is running Win98SE. I am using the built in video (office
machine). The only card added to this system is an Encore modem with the
Intel chipset; it has a wave device listed but I tried disabling it and that
didn't help either.

The irony is that I am now taking that old Gateway (Intel) board and putting
even older Compaq drives onto it for someone else. I have everything except
the sound working on that system now (windows 98 first edition). I got the
drivers off the net and they are installed and show up but there is no sound
at all. If I check "dxdiag", it shows no sound device detected. I even
tried upgrading the Directx from 8 to 9 and it didn't help.

The first system I tried this with was an old Compaq system with a failing
mobo. I replaced it with a Soyo 7IWM/L w/built in audio (810 chipset IIRC).
Again, everything works just fine except the audio. I put an old sound
blaster live value card in and that works perfect. This Soyo board has been
used off and on for several years and I never had a problem with the sound
but those were always clean installs of windows.

snip

Generally, the method I usually use is to boot to safe mode, open
Regedit, select the HKLM-Enum key (abbreviated) and make a backup
"Reg" file of it, then DELETE it. Delete the whole Enum key. Then
reboot. After Everything that can be Plug-N-Played, is, when it
prompts for reboot, choose "NO" (or whatever) so it keeps plugging and
playing along till it's finished... it'll require fewer reboots that
way. After 3 reboots or so you'll want to go into Device Manager and
note the duplicate entries with exclaimation marks... For each entry
with an exclaimation mark that has a "duplicate" without the
exclaimation mark, delete that duplicate without the exclaimation
mark. Typically those entries needed deleted are (but not always)
video, keyboard, DMA, related. If after a reboot there's still the
exclamation mark, and you'd tried suppling drivers, then delete both
duplicate entries and reboot again. That's a generic procedure, if
familiar with the specific components more precise methods can be
used, but are only slightly quicker, not any different in the end
result.


Now everything seems to work just fine, EXCEPT the sound. No
matter what I try, I cannot get the sound to work. The drivers are
installed properly but windows still does not see it.

So if you go into Control Panel | Multimedia there's no device listed?

On the old Gateway motherboard w/Compaq drives there is nothing listed under
the Audio tab (everything grayed out) but under the devices tab, all parts
of the sound system are listed.

Most often it's just a matter of having the wrong driver, though some
sound card drivers are pretty bad, require manual steps like browsing
to the driver INF files within the Add-New-Hardware Wizard, and being
somewhat familiar with the particular sound, like if it has additional
"master" entries in Device Manager like "PCI Multifunction Device"
type entries in addtion to those under "Sound, Video, and Game
Contorllers" Category.


This has happened on entirely different equipment each time. Two systems
were originally Compaqs and one was originally a Gateway and the new
motherboards were also different each time (1 Asus, 1 Soyo - actually not
new and the sound worked perfectly fine in previous clean install, 1
Intel).
The only way that I have been able to get sound into these systems so far
has been by installing a seperate sound card.
Why should the sound card work and not the built in sound?

Had you installed the appropraite motherboard chipset drivers?

yes

snip
I think it doesn't have much if anything to do with the fact that
they're motherboard-integrated, that you simply have a driver problem.
If you can determine that the driver is the newer WDM type instead of
the "VXD" type then a Microsoft WDM update might be needed. Offhand I
only know of a couple of locations for downloading it, Microsoft makes
you submit a special request for this same file:

http://support.microsoft.com/default...en-us%3b242937
http://pcscomp.com/support/downloads.html
http://pcscomp.com/support/files/Win98se/274370usa8.exe

Now that my morning coffee is kicking in, I see that this file is
supposedly for Win98 Second Edition, so it may not apply to you but I
leave the links in case it does.


Dave

Thanks for the registry trick, I'll give that a try. I'll also grab that
file and see if it helps the new Asus system.

Jon

"Jon Greene" wrote in message
...

"kony" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:10:49 -0500, "Jon Greene"
wrote:

snip

Details please...
What motherboard make, model, and revision too IF different revisions
used different audio codecs.

Specific example: original system = Gateway GP6-350 w/Intel motherboard
w/built-in sound (Creative ES1373 audio chip).
new motherboard = Asus P4P800-VM w/built-in sound (ADI 1980 6-channel
audio
codec) (link to board =
http://usa.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=P4P800-VM&langs=09 ).I can get no
sound
from this system (gonna try putting in a new sound card in the next couple
of days). There was something that I tried to do (can't remember what at
the
moment) and it gave me an error message saying that the digital output had
been intercepted by another device but it wouldn't say what the device
was.
This machine is running Win98SE. I am using the built in video (office
machine). The only card added to this system is an Encore modem with the
Intel chipset; it has a wave device listed but I tried disabling it and
that
didn't help either.

The irony is that I am now taking that old Gateway (Intel) board and
putting
even older Compaq drives onto it for someone else. I have everything
except
the sound working on that system now (windows 98 first edition). I got
the
drivers off the net and they are installed and show up but there is no
sound
at all. If I check "dxdiag", it shows no sound device detected. I even
tried upgrading the Directx from 8 to 9 and it didn't help.

*An update: I tried hacking the registry as indicated and it didn't help
(didn't see any reference to any kind of sound device in there?). I took
the sound blaster 16 out of the old compaq and stuck it in the newer system
and it picked it right up and started playing sounds. This has got me
stumped. Does windows do something funky with the sound driver? stick it
somewhere else maybe?


The first system I tried this with was an old Compaq system with a failing
mobo. I replaced it with a Soyo 7IWM/L w/built in audio (810 chipset
IIRC).
Again, everything works just fine except the audio. I put an old sound
blaster live value card in and that works perfect. This Soyo board has
been
used off and on for several years and I never had a problem with the sound
but those were always clean installs of windows.

snip

Generally, the method I usually use is to boot to safe mode, open
Regedit, select the HKLM-Enum key (abbreviated) and make a backup
"Reg" file of it, then DELETE it. Delete the whole Enum key. Then
reboot. After Everything that can be Plug-N-Played, is, when it
prompts for reboot, choose "NO" (or whatever) so it keeps plugging and
playing along till it's finished... it'll require fewer reboots that
way. After 3 reboots or so you'll want to go into Device Manager and
note the duplicate entries with exclaimation marks... For each entry
with an exclaimation mark that has a "duplicate" without the
exclaimation mark, delete that duplicate without the exclaimation
mark. Typically those entries needed deleted are (but not always)
video, keyboard, DMA, related. If after a reboot there's still the
exclamation mark, and you'd tried suppling drivers, then delete both
duplicate entries and reboot again. That's a generic procedure, if
familiar with the specific components more precise methods can be
used, but are only slightly quicker, not any different in the end
result.


Now everything seems to work just fine, EXCEPT the sound. No
matter what I try, I cannot get the sound to work. The drivers are
installed properly but windows still does not see it.

So if you go into Control Panel | Multimedia there's no device listed?

On the old Gateway motherboard w/Compaq drives there is nothing listed
under
the Audio tab (everything grayed out) but under the devices tab, all parts
of the sound system are listed.

Most often it's just a matter of having the wrong driver, though some
sound card drivers are pretty bad, require manual steps like browsing
to the driver INF files within the Add-New-Hardware Wizard, and being
somewhat familiar with the particular sound, like if it has additional
"master" entries in Device Manager like "PCI Multifunction Device"
type entries in addtion to those under "Sound, Video, and Game
Contorllers" Category.


This has happened on entirely different equipment each time. Two
systems
were originally Compaqs and one was originally a Gateway and the new
motherboards were also different each time (1 Asus, 1 Soyo - actually
not
new and the sound worked perfectly fine in previous clean install, 1
Intel).
The only way that I have been able to get sound into these systems so
far
has been by installing a seperate sound card.
Why should the sound card work and not the built in sound?

Had you installed the appropraite motherboard chipset drivers?

yes

snip
I think it doesn't have much if anything to do with the fact that
they're motherboard-integrated, that you simply have a driver problem.
If you can determine that the driver is the newer WDM type instead of
the "VXD" type then a Microsoft WDM update might be needed. Offhand I
only know of a couple of locations for downloading it, Microsoft makes
you submit a special request for this same file:

http://support.microsoft.com/default...en-us%3b242937
http://pcscomp.com/support/downloads.html
http://pcscomp.com/support/files/Win98se/274370usa8.exe

Now that my morning coffee is kicking in, I see that this file is
supposedly for Win98 Second Edition, so it may not apply to you but I
leave the links in case it does.


Dave

Thanks for the registry trick, I'll give that a try. I'll also grab that
file and see if it helps the new Asus system.

Jon

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:13:12 -0500, "Jon Greene"
wrote:


"kony" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:10:49 -0500, "Jon Greene"
wrote:

snip

Details please...
What motherboard make, model, and revision too IF different revisions
used different audio codecs.

Specific example: original system = Gateway GP6-350 w/Intel motherboard
w/built-in sound (Creative ES1373 audio chip).
new motherboard = Asus P4P800-VM w/built-in sound (ADI 1980 6-channel audio
codec) (link to board =
http://usa.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=P4P800-VM&langs=09 ).I can get no sound
from this system (gonna try putting in a new sound card in the next couple
of days). There was something that I tried to do (can't remember what at the
moment) and it gave me an error message saying that the digital output had
been intercepted by another device but it wouldn't say what the device was.
This machine is running Win98SE. I am using the built in video (office
machine). The only card added to this system is an Encore modem with the
Intel chipset; it has a wave device listed but I tried disabling it and that
didn't help either.

The irony is that I am now taking that old Gateway (Intel) board and putting
even older Compaq drives onto it for someone else. I have everything except
the sound working on that system now (windows 98 first edition). I got the
drivers off the net and they are installed and show up but there is no sound
at all. If I check "dxdiag", it shows no sound device detected. I even
tried upgrading the Directx from 8 to 9 and it didn't help.

The first system I tried this with was an old Compaq system with a failing
mobo. I replaced it with a Soyo 7IWM/L w/built in audio (810 chipset IIRC).
Again, everything works just fine except the audio. I put an old sound
blaster live value card in and that works perfect. This Soyo board has been
used off and on for several years and I never had a problem with the sound
but those were always clean installs of windows.

You're jumping back and forth it seems, instead of focusing on a
single board, a single problem. Providing a short and clear problem
is the way to get it resolved, not a "lump everything together" with
lots of irrelevant details.

Lets start with the Gateway board with Creative 1373... Creative does
a pathetic job of driver support, but have provided drivers for that
chipset. Enough digging around on their 'site should find 'em unless
they dropped support. In fact I just set up a board with that Ensoniq
1373 sound, was a Gateway/Intel board. Here's the Gateway
OEM-supplied driver I used, which worked (16.5MB):
http://216.71.121.115/usr_1034/Win9xME2K-7510802.zip

Here's another for the Ensoniq 1373, "probably" came from Creative but
I don't remember, it's been a while (note that it doesn't include the
midi wavesets, which are in the first linked driver or you probably
have them already, would be two or three 2, 4, 8MB files named *.ecw
)(1MB):
http://216.71.121.115/usr_1034/c5803w74.exe


Dave