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Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 15th 17, 03:12 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
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Default Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?

John Doe wrote:
RayLopez99 wrote:

Yes wrote:


Maybe OT, but given the thread about future CPUs, is there
consumer software now that actually uses the multi-core
CPU technology? I mean, all the additional cores sounds
nice, but has any consumer s/w caught up with the
hardware?


One game that does multi-threading (multi-core) is computer
chess playing.


There are plenty of others.

But as Paul says, the applications are thin.


True or not, that would be irrelevant to the benefit of
multicore CPUs. In fact, modern PCs usually have hundreds of
processes and thousands of threads running at the same time.

What part of that is difficult understand?

I think a bigger benefit of multi-cores is that you can run
several apps simultaneously.


Yeah, or hundreds of processes and thousands of threads like
with a typical modern PC. You are supposed to be a
programmer?


At some point he's right.

Cinebench is an example of an "infinitely" scaling
application. It uses as many cores as you give it,
and attempts to benchmark performance with them. However,
this does not reflect the realities of real applications.

Cinebench would be closest to your view of how it works.

Real applications stop scaling at some point. You can
certainly program multiple cores, but that doesn't mean
you get a benefit. And the software developer has to
code to take this into account. For example, Microsoft
FSX uses "up to N cores", where N really isnlt a large
number, and that's because the processes forked on the
fly, there's only a limited number of things they can
do that way, and get parallelism. For example, there's
a lookahead process, which reads in terrain data, in
the direction you're flying. Could you split that into
two processes ? Could one process read the left-hand
terrain data, and another read the right-hand terrain
data. That sounds like a horrible idea. It could
cause thrashing on the hard drive.

Take for example, a movie renderer that runs out of
steam at 8 cores. In other words, if they use more
cores, little extra output is produced. If you have a
26 core CPU, then it's in your best interest to
render three 8-core movie jobs, to get the best
usage from the CPU.

Take Photoshop as another example. It uses divide-and-conquer
for some of the filters. For example, it splits an image
into four pieces, one core works on each piece. Then a final
step is "stitching" that happens along the borders of each
chunk before the final composition is formed. It's easy
to see at first, that dividing into four pieces makes sense.
Now, if I divided in 24 pieces and did a whole bunch of
stitching with a single core at the end, am I still winning ?
These are things the developers have to benchmark, and decide
at what point doing more dividing, isn't delivering more
performance, or perhaps is compromising the image quality.

For some of the incoming AMD processing products, it's
quite likely that multiple applications will need to run
on them, to get value. Because, as it turns out, the L3
cache is not unified over the entire processing complex,
and the CPU behaves as a "cluster", rather than as a
single CPU. The definition of whether it's one or
another architecture, is determined by the cache latency - if
you get to a point where main memory (L4) is faster than
L3, then the L3 is no longer as significant as a performance
enhancement. And this might cause you to alter the way
you run stuff on it. Rather than their largest chip
offering 64MB of L3 cache, it offers "8x8MB" of L3 cache.
And what that means is, mechanically it's still wired
as 64MB, but if you notice a particular benchmark isn't
running well on it, it can be explained by the link
latency between chunks.

And then the user modifies their usage behavior, to
get the best results from what they bought. It's an
empirical process. You test and see. If the hardware
hides the fact that certain partitions exist, you
don't have to worry. If a thing you do isn't running
well, then you have to take steps to fix it.

As an example, there was a piece of software which
was mistaking virtual cores as physical cores. And to
get the best behavior from it, the users were turning
off hyperthreading. The users noticed a problem, and
took steps to deal with it. They could also have
used affinity controls or affinity applications, to
have more granular control. And the trick in some cases,
is figuring out which tick box belongs to which physical
core. The application developer could fix it properly,
but in lieu of that, the users took action on their end.

Paul
  #22  
Old July 15th 17, 03:33 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
John Doe[_9_]
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Posts: 410
Default Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?

Paul wrote:

John Doe wrote:
RayLopez99 wrote:
Yes wrote:


Maybe OT, but given the thread about future CPUs, is
there consumer software now that actually uses the
multi-core CPU technology? I mean, all the additional
cores sounds nice, but has any consumer s/w caught up
with the hardware?


One game that does multi-threading (multi-core) is
computer chess playing.


There are plenty of others.

But as Paul says, the applications are thin.


True or not, that would be irrelevant to the benefit of
multicore CPUs. In fact, modern PCs usually have hundreds
of processes and thousands of threads running at the same
time.

What part of that is difficult understand?

I think a bigger benefit of multi-cores is that you can
run several apps simultaneously.


Yeah, or hundreds of processes and thousands of threads
like with a typical modern PC. You are supposed to be a
programmer?


At some point he's right.


You act as if you do not know the facts pertaining to the
real world of modern personal computing. One can assume the
original poster's question is about the real world and
whether or not multiple cores matter in the real world. That
is the underlying question.

Look at Task Manager Performance CPU. Tell me, how many
processes and how many threads are running? Look for that
information below the pretty graph. Also, if you have a
multicore CPU in Windows 10, notice that it always evenly
uses all cores.
  #23  
Old July 15th 17, 05:50 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
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Posts: 2,407
Default Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 10:30:48 -0700 (PDT), RayLopez99
wrote:

One game that does multi-threading (multi-core) is computer chess playing.


First, generally, is the premise and known, that predictability to
branch-scaling decisions laterally across parallel cores is an area
where the faculty for technological accomplishment exceeds a capacity
of human discernment to fully implement. Predictability for a purpose
of standardization requires a cross-sectional representation of
programming models, common and known, as indicative of variably to
benchmarks withal to make the subjective decision when choosing which
processor is appreciably suited individual perception.

I play these engines for near or greater than master ratings -- 3000,
expert level.

05/18/2017 02:32 AM DIR !discocheck
05/18/2017 02:33 AM DIR !fruit
05/18/2017 02:51 AM DIR !alaric
05/18/2017 03:08 AM DIR !bikjump
05/18/2017 03:15 AM DIR !cyrano
05/18/2017 03:24 AM DIR !daydreamer
05/18/2017 03:35 AM DIR !gaviota
06/07/2017 03:15 AM DIR !komodo
06/13/2017 11:10 AM DIR !mcbrain
06/13/2017 11:52 AM DIR !rhetoric
07/05/2017 01:34 AM DIR !stockfish8

A Grand Master may play at 3400 and beyond. Perhaps from one-in-ten
I can correctly sense, over the first fifteen moves, when I have
advantage of a won position. But that's with the added help of
reversing the engines to actually implement a suspect mistake or
material acquisition for validating the win. All with very little
effort expended from the engine, eg- heuristics or ply depths, across
four cores, however applicable to a freeware chess machine, Lucas
Chess, capable of using McBrain. It's my latest chess program --
quick, gritty, dirty, tough and plenty nitty enough. Something I have
to be careful with, if I don't care to find myself on IRC lines,
particularly, out and hunting for registered and rated players.

You do of course know that playing chess can be of addictive
substance?
  #24  
Old July 15th 17, 06:00 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Bill[_36_]
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Posts: 167
Default Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?

Flasherly wrote:
You do of course know that playing chess can be of addictive
substance?


Take a look at "Go" (or "Baduk"). igowin.exe is a nice (free) 9x9
computer version to try, but a 9x9 game doesn't capture the spirit of
the standard 18x18 game.
  #25  
Old July 15th 17, 11:12 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
RayLopez99
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Posts: 897
Default Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?

On Friday, July 14, 2017 at 10:37:32 PM UTC-4, John Doe wrote:

Look at Task Manager Performance CPU. Tell me, how many
processes and how many threads are running? Look for that
information below the pretty graph. Also, if you have a
multicore CPU in Windows 10, notice that it always evenly
uses all cores.


Shut up. You know nothing. Running a thread in parallel means little, if you have to lock the thread and wait until something else finishes.

You call yourself a troll? Not worthy of that title.

RL

  #26  
Old July 15th 17, 11:20 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
RayLopez99
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Posts: 897
Default Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?

On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 12:50:08 AM UTC-4, Flasherly wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 10:30:48 -0700 (PDT), RayLopez99
wrote:

One game that does multi-threading (multi-core) is computer chess playing.


First, generally, is the premise and known, that predictability to
branch-scaling decisions laterally across parallel cores is an area
where the faculty for technological accomplishment exceeds a capacity
of human discernment to fully implement. Predictability for a purpose
of standardization requires a cross-sectional representation of
programming models, common and known, as indicative of variably to
benchmarks withal to make the subjective decision when choosing which
processor is appreciably suited individual perception.

I play these engines for near or greater than master ratings -- 3000,
expert level.

05/18/2017 02:32 AM DIR !discocheck
05/18/2017 02:33 AM DIR !fruit
05/18/2017 02:51 AM DIR !alaric
05/18/2017 03:08 AM DIR !bikjump
05/18/2017 03:15 AM DIR !cyrano
05/18/2017 03:24 AM DIR !daydreamer
05/18/2017 03:35 AM DIR !gaviota
06/07/2017 03:15 AM DIR !komodo
06/13/2017 11:10 AM DIR !mcbrain
06/13/2017 11:52 AM DIR !rhetoric
07/05/2017 01:34 AM DIR !stockfish8

A Grand Master may play at 3400 and beyond. Perhaps from one-in-ten
I can correctly sense, over the first fifteen moves, when I have
advantage of a won position. But that's with the added help of
reversing the engines to actually implement a suspect mistake or
material acquisition for validating the win. All with very little
effort expended from the engine, eg- heuristics or ply depths, across
four cores, however applicable to a freeware chess machine, Lucas
Chess, capable of using McBrain. It's my latest chess program --
quick, gritty, dirty, tough and plenty nitty enough. Something I have
to be careful with, if I don't care to find myself on IRC lines,
particularly, out and hunting for registered and rated players.

You do of course know that playing chess can be of addictive
substance?


Hi Flasherly. When you going back to Thailand? I hope to be back in the Philippines in a few months. I'm building a house for my gf there. Believe it or not, recalling another thread, I will install, and the first guy in my barangay (block) to do so, electrical grounding to our house. Amazing. Now my PCs will not give off a mild shock when you touch the outer casing (and not from static electricity either).

As for your thread, not sure what you mean by it -you're like Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now, a mysterious guy- but I think you mean you troll chess playing websites and play at a master or GM level using a chess engine? That's a very popular thing to do. I know very strong club players who have done that; they typically vary the moves a bit when playing so they don't get accused of cheating by playing the exact move recommended by an engine, and, when in a completely won position, they manually take over and win without assistance. I don't know what they get out of doing this, except a feeling of power. I myself never have cheated in chess online and have reached the 1900 Elo level online, in blitz, which is roughly also my OTB club level. But it's tough to play online since there are so many chess cheaters, at all levels. Sometimes a guy will lose a piece, then turn on his engine and save the game playing perfect GM moves.

RL
  #27  
Old July 16th 17, 05:26 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
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Posts: 2,407
Default Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 15:20:10 -0700 (PDT), RayLopez99
wrote:

//
Hi Flasherly. When you going back to Thailand? I hope to be back in
the Philippines in a few months. I'm building a house for my gf
there. Believe it or not, recalling another thread, I will install,
and the first guy in my barangay (block) to do so, electrical
grounding to our house. Amazing. Now my PCs will not give off a mild
shock when you touch the outer casing (and not from static electricity
either).
As for your thread, not sure what you mean by it -you're like Marlon
Brando in Apocalypse Now, a mysterious guy-
\\

Yeah, just watched that again the other day. Filmed in the
Philippines and showcasing Coppola's undeniable talent. Brando, for
being later along, maturer and older, adapts well for the enigmatic
vein, probably in part as much personally true. Wonderful film,
although [Lieutenant Colonel] Oliver Stone to me is truer to strict
form for a vicissitude of that particular genre, or more generally,
war. Another perhaps worth association in a class of AN is Mel Gibson
and We Were Soldiers.


\\
but I think you mean you troll chess playing websites and play at a
master or GM level using a chess engine? That's a very popular thing
to do. I know very strong club players who have done that; they
typically vary the moves a bit when playing so they don't get accused
of cheating by playing the exact move recommended by an engine, and,
when in a completely won position, they manually take over and win
without assistance. I don't know what they get out of doing this,
except a feeling of power. I myself never have cheated in chess
online and have reached the 1900 Elo level online, in blitz, which is
roughly also my OTB club level. But it's tough to play online since
there are so many chess cheaters, at all levels. Sometimes a guy will
lose a piece, then turn on his engine and save the game playing
perfect GM moves.
//

Hey, there. We're roughly in the same league, so far as strength. I'd
have to first bone-up, though -- done it before, at around three
month's practice -- to feel the strength coming on, confidently to
play at 1800-2000 ratings. Yes, I'm also familiar and can setup a
rudimentary platform for engaging people "live", while running a
chess-engine analyses of them in the background. Aside from being
distracting to somewhat bothersome, nevertheless in the right
circumstances it does hold a certain allure. An end result obtained
cannot be denied certain instructiveness. Not that an aspect of
computer play may tend to be to some extent transparent;- not
necessarily or all the more so, as you say, if juxtaposed by someone
keeping track, within time constraints, of possibilities and capable
of interpreting results fast enough to fully realize and exploit
mistakes, real slick and smooth. ...As dear ol' Nietzsche was fond to
say - That which doesn't kill one makes one stronger.

Blitz chess, whether online or with clocks, across tables in a local
church basement hosting chess play, I'll have to excuse myself. With
extreme prejudice. I really do disdain that type of play. Then
again, I wouldn't regard tournament time entirely too long, provided
that I didn't start getting splitting-headaches somewhere on and into
the second or possibly third match. I do find comfortable play,
though, within reasonable limits, if a little longer to savor
decisions, those being inasmuch what others also find agreeable. As
one opponent wisely rebuked me for after a game -- "Watch for delays
in deliberation from your opponents;- take as long as they did, if
necessary, to ascertain their meanings."

Salute. Good to see a strong player. I'd enjoy hours with book
analysis over a teakwood board, in the shade of the Thai bush, working
out variations from unique selections played by international
grandmasters.
  #28  
Old July 19th 17, 02:22 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
RayLopez99
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Posts: 897
Default Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?

On Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 12:26:20 AM UTC-4, Flasherly wrote:


Salute. Good to see a strong player. I'd enjoy hours with book
analysis over a teakwood board, in the shade of the Thai bush, working
out variations from unique selections played by international
grandmasters.


Yes I became Class A from Class C or B (at best) by studying with masters OTB live in the Philippines. It beats book learning since it's immediate and forces you to concentrate.

A foreign movie that looks promising, I'm watching now, is "Last King of Scotland" (semi-fictional about Amin's Uganda). I like the background scenery, looks very authentic (red clay soil, green canopy: poor soils with rich due to sunlight and rain is the tropics).

I will start another thread on a topic I raised at rec.games.chess but it was never answered: how do chess players cheat in real time, not just by using their phones? I understand sneaking into the bathroom to peak at a position you can reconstruct on your Android phone playing some chess engine, but my question goes to real-time cheating of the kind Borislav Ivanov used (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borislav_Ivanov). How day do dat?

RL
  #29  
Old July 19th 17, 02:40 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
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Posts: 2,407
Default Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 18:22:46 -0700 (PDT), RayLopez99
wrote:


A foreign movie that looks promising, I'm watching now, is "Last King
of Scotland" (semi-fictional about Amin's Uganda). I like the
background scenery, looks very authentic (red clay soil, green canopy:
poor soils with rich due to sunlight and rain is the tropics).


Forrest Whitacre. It is, as are many of his endeavors. Also a
harrowing film, with little doubt for leaving aside what, from the
well-presented staging and treatment, concerning the subject's unique
meglomania. I watched it some years ago. Unfortunately his
displeasure with a woman, severing her arms and legs and surgically
reversing them, (as an affront the woman's family collecting her body
for burial), was all a bit dramatically over the edge. Powerful,
nonetheless, just not a same class, I'd particularly care periodically
repeatedly to view, as in a case of something along Mel Gibson and
Sigourney Weaver's treatment of Indonesia from The Year of Living
Dangerously.
  #30  
Old July 23rd 17, 09:39 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
RayLopez99
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Posts: 897
Default Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?

On Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 8:40:39 PM UTC+7, Flasherly wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 18:22:46 -0700 (PDT), RayLopez99
wrote:


A foreign movie that looks promising, I'm watching now, is "Last King
of Scotland" (semi-fictional about Amin's Uganda). I like the
background scenery, looks very authentic (red clay soil, green canopy:
poor soils with rich due to sunlight and rain is the tropics).


Forrest Whitacre. It is, as are many of his endeavors. Also a
harrowing film, with little doubt for leaving aside what, from the
well-presented staging and treatment, concerning the subject's unique
meglomania. I watched it some years ago. Unfortunately his
displeasure with a woman, severing her arms and legs and surgically
reversing them, (as an affront the woman's family collecting her body
for burial), was all a bit dramatically over the edge. Powerful,
nonetheless, just not a same class, I'd particularly care periodically
repeatedly to view, as in a case of something along Mel Gibson and
Sigourney Weaver's treatment of Indonesia from The Year of Living
Dangerously.


Oh, spoiler...I did not expect to be seeing that...I thought it was a bit more realistic. I can see an African doing that for voodoo purposes but a crazy white guy? Hmm...not that likely, at least based on history, though I'm sure there are crazy white guys capable of this.

RL

 




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