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#21
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Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?
John Doe wrote:
RayLopez99 wrote: Yes wrote: Maybe OT, but given the thread about future CPUs, is there consumer software now that actually uses the multi-core CPU technology? I mean, all the additional cores sounds nice, but has any consumer s/w caught up with the hardware? One game that does multi-threading (multi-core) is computer chess playing. There are plenty of others. But as Paul says, the applications are thin. True or not, that would be irrelevant to the benefit of multicore CPUs. In fact, modern PCs usually have hundreds of processes and thousands of threads running at the same time. What part of that is difficult understand? I think a bigger benefit of multi-cores is that you can run several apps simultaneously. Yeah, or hundreds of processes and thousands of threads like with a typical modern PC. You are supposed to be a programmer? At some point he's right. Cinebench is an example of an "infinitely" scaling application. It uses as many cores as you give it, and attempts to benchmark performance with them. However, this does not reflect the realities of real applications. Cinebench would be closest to your view of how it works. Real applications stop scaling at some point. You can certainly program multiple cores, but that doesn't mean you get a benefit. And the software developer has to code to take this into account. For example, Microsoft FSX uses "up to N cores", where N really isnlt a large number, and that's because the processes forked on the fly, there's only a limited number of things they can do that way, and get parallelism. For example, there's a lookahead process, which reads in terrain data, in the direction you're flying. Could you split that into two processes ? Could one process read the left-hand terrain data, and another read the right-hand terrain data. That sounds like a horrible idea. It could cause thrashing on the hard drive. Take for example, a movie renderer that runs out of steam at 8 cores. In other words, if they use more cores, little extra output is produced. If you have a 26 core CPU, then it's in your best interest to render three 8-core movie jobs, to get the best usage from the CPU. Take Photoshop as another example. It uses divide-and-conquer for some of the filters. For example, it splits an image into four pieces, one core works on each piece. Then a final step is "stitching" that happens along the borders of each chunk before the final composition is formed. It's easy to see at first, that dividing into four pieces makes sense. Now, if I divided in 24 pieces and did a whole bunch of stitching with a single core at the end, am I still winning ? These are things the developers have to benchmark, and decide at what point doing more dividing, isn't delivering more performance, or perhaps is compromising the image quality. For some of the incoming AMD processing products, it's quite likely that multiple applications will need to run on them, to get value. Because, as it turns out, the L3 cache is not unified over the entire processing complex, and the CPU behaves as a "cluster", rather than as a single CPU. The definition of whether it's one or another architecture, is determined by the cache latency - if you get to a point where main memory (L4) is faster than L3, then the L3 is no longer as significant as a performance enhancement. And this might cause you to alter the way you run stuff on it. Rather than their largest chip offering 64MB of L3 cache, it offers "8x8MB" of L3 cache. And what that means is, mechanically it's still wired as 64MB, but if you notice a particular benchmark isn't running well on it, it can be explained by the link latency between chunks. And then the user modifies their usage behavior, to get the best results from what they bought. It's an empirical process. You test and see. If the hardware hides the fact that certain partitions exist, you don't have to worry. If a thing you do isn't running well, then you have to take steps to fix it. As an example, there was a piece of software which was mistaking virtual cores as physical cores. And to get the best behavior from it, the users were turning off hyperthreading. The users noticed a problem, and took steps to deal with it. They could also have used affinity controls or affinity applications, to have more granular control. And the trick in some cases, is figuring out which tick box belongs to which physical core. The application developer could fix it properly, but in lieu of that, the users took action on their end. Paul |
#22
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Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?
Paul wrote:
John Doe wrote: RayLopez99 wrote: Yes wrote: Maybe OT, but given the thread about future CPUs, is there consumer software now that actually uses the multi-core CPU technology? I mean, all the additional cores sounds nice, but has any consumer s/w caught up with the hardware? One game that does multi-threading (multi-core) is computer chess playing. There are plenty of others. But as Paul says, the applications are thin. True or not, that would be irrelevant to the benefit of multicore CPUs. In fact, modern PCs usually have hundreds of processes and thousands of threads running at the same time. What part of that is difficult understand? I think a bigger benefit of multi-cores is that you can run several apps simultaneously. Yeah, or hundreds of processes and thousands of threads like with a typical modern PC. You are supposed to be a programmer? At some point he's right. You act as if you do not know the facts pertaining to the real world of modern personal computing. One can assume the original poster's question is about the real world and whether or not multiple cores matter in the real world. That is the underlying question. Look at Task Manager Performance CPU. Tell me, how many processes and how many threads are running? Look for that information below the pretty graph. Also, if you have a multicore CPU in Windows 10, notice that it always evenly uses all cores. |
#23
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Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?
On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 10:30:48 -0700 (PDT), RayLopez99
wrote: One game that does multi-threading (multi-core) is computer chess playing. First, generally, is the premise and known, that predictability to branch-scaling decisions laterally across parallel cores is an area where the faculty for technological accomplishment exceeds a capacity of human discernment to fully implement. Predictability for a purpose of standardization requires a cross-sectional representation of programming models, common and known, as indicative of variably to benchmarks withal to make the subjective decision when choosing which processor is appreciably suited individual perception. I play these engines for near or greater than master ratings -- 3000, expert level. 05/18/2017 02:32 AM DIR !discocheck 05/18/2017 02:33 AM DIR !fruit 05/18/2017 02:51 AM DIR !alaric 05/18/2017 03:08 AM DIR !bikjump 05/18/2017 03:15 AM DIR !cyrano 05/18/2017 03:24 AM DIR !daydreamer 05/18/2017 03:35 AM DIR !gaviota 06/07/2017 03:15 AM DIR !komodo 06/13/2017 11:10 AM DIR !mcbrain 06/13/2017 11:52 AM DIR !rhetoric 07/05/2017 01:34 AM DIR !stockfish8 A Grand Master may play at 3400 and beyond. Perhaps from one-in-ten I can correctly sense, over the first fifteen moves, when I have advantage of a won position. But that's with the added help of reversing the engines to actually implement a suspect mistake or material acquisition for validating the win. All with very little effort expended from the engine, eg- heuristics or ply depths, across four cores, however applicable to a freeware chess machine, Lucas Chess, capable of using McBrain. It's my latest chess program -- quick, gritty, dirty, tough and plenty nitty enough. Something I have to be careful with, if I don't care to find myself on IRC lines, particularly, out and hunting for registered and rated players. You do of course know that playing chess can be of addictive substance? |
#24
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Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?
Flasherly wrote:
You do of course know that playing chess can be of addictive substance? Take a look at "Go" (or "Baduk"). igowin.exe is a nice (free) 9x9 computer version to try, but a 9x9 game doesn't capture the spirit of the standard 18x18 game. |
#25
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Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?
On Friday, July 14, 2017 at 10:37:32 PM UTC-4, John Doe wrote:
Look at Task Manager Performance CPU. Tell me, how many processes and how many threads are running? Look for that information below the pretty graph. Also, if you have a multicore CPU in Windows 10, notice that it always evenly uses all cores. Shut up. You know nothing. Running a thread in parallel means little, if you have to lock the thread and wait until something else finishes. You call yourself a troll? Not worthy of that title. RL |
#26
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Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?
On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 12:50:08 AM UTC-4, Flasherly wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 10:30:48 -0700 (PDT), RayLopez99 wrote: One game that does multi-threading (multi-core) is computer chess playing. First, generally, is the premise and known, that predictability to branch-scaling decisions laterally across parallel cores is an area where the faculty for technological accomplishment exceeds a capacity of human discernment to fully implement. Predictability for a purpose of standardization requires a cross-sectional representation of programming models, common and known, as indicative of variably to benchmarks withal to make the subjective decision when choosing which processor is appreciably suited individual perception. I play these engines for near or greater than master ratings -- 3000, expert level. 05/18/2017 02:32 AM DIR !discocheck 05/18/2017 02:33 AM DIR !fruit 05/18/2017 02:51 AM DIR !alaric 05/18/2017 03:08 AM DIR !bikjump 05/18/2017 03:15 AM DIR !cyrano 05/18/2017 03:24 AM DIR !daydreamer 05/18/2017 03:35 AM DIR !gaviota 06/07/2017 03:15 AM DIR !komodo 06/13/2017 11:10 AM DIR !mcbrain 06/13/2017 11:52 AM DIR !rhetoric 07/05/2017 01:34 AM DIR !stockfish8 A Grand Master may play at 3400 and beyond. Perhaps from one-in-ten I can correctly sense, over the first fifteen moves, when I have advantage of a won position. But that's with the added help of reversing the engines to actually implement a suspect mistake or material acquisition for validating the win. All with very little effort expended from the engine, eg- heuristics or ply depths, across four cores, however applicable to a freeware chess machine, Lucas Chess, capable of using McBrain. It's my latest chess program -- quick, gritty, dirty, tough and plenty nitty enough. Something I have to be careful with, if I don't care to find myself on IRC lines, particularly, out and hunting for registered and rated players. You do of course know that playing chess can be of addictive substance? Hi Flasherly. When you going back to Thailand? I hope to be back in the Philippines in a few months. I'm building a house for my gf there. Believe it or not, recalling another thread, I will install, and the first guy in my barangay (block) to do so, electrical grounding to our house. Amazing. Now my PCs will not give off a mild shock when you touch the outer casing (and not from static electricity either). As for your thread, not sure what you mean by it -you're like Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now, a mysterious guy- but I think you mean you troll chess playing websites and play at a master or GM level using a chess engine? That's a very popular thing to do. I know very strong club players who have done that; they typically vary the moves a bit when playing so they don't get accused of cheating by playing the exact move recommended by an engine, and, when in a completely won position, they manually take over and win without assistance. I don't know what they get out of doing this, except a feeling of power. I myself never have cheated in chess online and have reached the 1900 Elo level online, in blitz, which is roughly also my OTB club level. But it's tough to play online since there are so many chess cheaters, at all levels. Sometimes a guy will lose a piece, then turn on his engine and save the game playing perfect GM moves. RL |
#27
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Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?
On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 15:20:10 -0700 (PDT), RayLopez99
wrote: // Hi Flasherly. When you going back to Thailand? I hope to be back in the Philippines in a few months. I'm building a house for my gf there. Believe it or not, recalling another thread, I will install, and the first guy in my barangay (block) to do so, electrical grounding to our house. Amazing. Now my PCs will not give off a mild shock when you touch the outer casing (and not from static electricity either). As for your thread, not sure what you mean by it -you're like Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now, a mysterious guy- \\ Yeah, just watched that again the other day. Filmed in the Philippines and showcasing Coppola's undeniable talent. Brando, for being later along, maturer and older, adapts well for the enigmatic vein, probably in part as much personally true. Wonderful film, although [Lieutenant Colonel] Oliver Stone to me is truer to strict form for a vicissitude of that particular genre, or more generally, war. Another perhaps worth association in a class of AN is Mel Gibson and We Were Soldiers. \\ but I think you mean you troll chess playing websites and play at a master or GM level using a chess engine? That's a very popular thing to do. I know very strong club players who have done that; they typically vary the moves a bit when playing so they don't get accused of cheating by playing the exact move recommended by an engine, and, when in a completely won position, they manually take over and win without assistance. I don't know what they get out of doing this, except a feeling of power. I myself never have cheated in chess online and have reached the 1900 Elo level online, in blitz, which is roughly also my OTB club level. But it's tough to play online since there are so many chess cheaters, at all levels. Sometimes a guy will lose a piece, then turn on his engine and save the game playing perfect GM moves. // Hey, there. We're roughly in the same league, so far as strength. I'd have to first bone-up, though -- done it before, at around three month's practice -- to feel the strength coming on, confidently to play at 1800-2000 ratings. Yes, I'm also familiar and can setup a rudimentary platform for engaging people "live", while running a chess-engine analyses of them in the background. Aside from being distracting to somewhat bothersome, nevertheless in the right circumstances it does hold a certain allure. An end result obtained cannot be denied certain instructiveness. Not that an aspect of computer play may tend to be to some extent transparent;- not necessarily or all the more so, as you say, if juxtaposed by someone keeping track, within time constraints, of possibilities and capable of interpreting results fast enough to fully realize and exploit mistakes, real slick and smooth. ...As dear ol' Nietzsche was fond to say - That which doesn't kill one makes one stronger. Blitz chess, whether online or with clocks, across tables in a local church basement hosting chess play, I'll have to excuse myself. With extreme prejudice. I really do disdain that type of play. Then again, I wouldn't regard tournament time entirely too long, provided that I didn't start getting splitting-headaches somewhere on and into the second or possibly third match. I do find comfortable play, though, within reasonable limits, if a little longer to savor decisions, those being inasmuch what others also find agreeable. As one opponent wisely rebuked me for after a game -- "Watch for delays in deliberation from your opponents;- take as long as they did, if necessary, to ascertain their meanings." Salute. Good to see a strong player. I'd enjoy hours with book analysis over a teakwood board, in the shade of the Thai bush, working out variations from unique selections played by international grandmasters. |
#28
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Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?
On Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 12:26:20 AM UTC-4, Flasherly wrote:
Salute. Good to see a strong player. I'd enjoy hours with book analysis over a teakwood board, in the shade of the Thai bush, working out variations from unique selections played by international grandmasters. Yes I became Class A from Class C or B (at best) by studying with masters OTB live in the Philippines. It beats book learning since it's immediate and forces you to concentrate. A foreign movie that looks promising, I'm watching now, is "Last King of Scotland" (semi-fictional about Amin's Uganda). I like the background scenery, looks very authentic (red clay soil, green canopy: poor soils with rich due to sunlight and rain is the tropics). I will start another thread on a topic I raised at rec.games.chess but it was never answered: how do chess players cheat in real time, not just by using their phones? I understand sneaking into the bathroom to peak at a position you can reconstruct on your Android phone playing some chess engine, but my question goes to real-time cheating of the kind Borislav Ivanov used (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borislav_Ivanov). How day do dat? RL |
#29
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Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 18:22:46 -0700 (PDT), RayLopez99
wrote: A foreign movie that looks promising, I'm watching now, is "Last King of Scotland" (semi-fictional about Amin's Uganda). I like the background scenery, looks very authentic (red clay soil, green canopy: poor soils with rich due to sunlight and rain is the tropics). Forrest Whitacre. It is, as are many of his endeavors. Also a harrowing film, with little doubt for leaving aside what, from the well-presented staging and treatment, concerning the subject's unique meglomania. I watched it some years ago. Unfortunately his displeasure with a woman, severing her arms and legs and surgically reversing them, (as an affront the woman's family collecting her body for burial), was all a bit dramatically over the edge. Powerful, nonetheless, just not a same class, I'd particularly care periodically repeatedly to view, as in a case of something along Mel Gibson and Sigourney Weaver's treatment of Indonesia from The Year of Living Dangerously. |
#30
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Is there consumer s/w available now that uses multi-core CPUs?
On Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 8:40:39 PM UTC+7, Flasherly wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 18:22:46 -0700 (PDT), RayLopez99 wrote: A foreign movie that looks promising, I'm watching now, is "Last King of Scotland" (semi-fictional about Amin's Uganda). I like the background scenery, looks very authentic (red clay soil, green canopy: poor soils with rich due to sunlight and rain is the tropics). Forrest Whitacre. It is, as are many of his endeavors. Also a harrowing film, with little doubt for leaving aside what, from the well-presented staging and treatment, concerning the subject's unique meglomania. I watched it some years ago. Unfortunately his displeasure with a woman, severing her arms and legs and surgically reversing them, (as an affront the woman's family collecting her body for burial), was all a bit dramatically over the edge. Powerful, nonetheless, just not a same class, I'd particularly care periodically repeatedly to view, as in a case of something along Mel Gibson and Sigourney Weaver's treatment of Indonesia from The Year of Living Dangerously. Oh, spoiler...I did not expect to be seeing that...I thought it was a bit more realistic. I can see an African doing that for voodoo purposes but a crazy white guy? Hmm...not that likely, at least based on history, though I'm sure there are crazy white guys capable of this. RL |
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