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GA-7VRXP Memory problems



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 4th 04, 12:24 AM
Simon Elliott
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
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Homer J. Simpson wrote:

I would expect that you are going to get a lot of memory errors or complete
system freezeup or spontaneous reboot when you run memtest86. You cannot
rely on the results from memtest86 when you are not supplying the correct
power requirements to the memory modules. You need to test the memory on a
known stable system board to determine if your memory modules are defective.

Thanks for the warning, makes sense. Details below, but I'm not
confident I can consider this board stable yet.

One thing puzzles me. Why do the problems seem to manifest mainly at
startup, occasionally at shutdown but not when Windows is running
normally? Almost always when the two initial Windows screens, the one
with the progress bars (or the CHKDSK screen) have just ended. I can
run the box on a full load (SETI screensaver) for several minutes, no
problem. Burn CDs, no problem. Occasions I might have guessed problems
would occur, but not so. Does the point at which the problem occurs tell
us anything about the hardware in the machine, or anything about what
Windows is doing as it starts?

Think about what what I've just written, it's when a screen mode changes
- low res to higher.

It's late, I'm tired and I readily agree I could be talking rubbish. But
aren't memory and an AGP graphic card on the same PCI bus? So might
lowering the AGP voltage also have a positive effect? Do they share the
same power line? The card is an Nvidia GeForce FX 5200, 128MB of memory.

It's just a thought, so be gentle with me if I'm talking b******s.

The DDR Voltages in the BIOS, that are above the standard 2.5V, are there
for the overclockers so that they can attempt to achieve system stability
when running their memory modules faster than its original design
specifications.

Are significant gains possible? Aside from SETI it's rare I max out my
CPU for any length of time. Occasional WAV or JPG editing needs it, but
most of the time I'm just ticking over. What are these guys doing that
they need the power? And are these systems reliable? Or is it just
because they can? No problem with that, by doing so they're helping me
as well. Just curious.

BSODs more frequent today, various types, half a dozen in total - four
just trying to start the box earlier this evening. So I increased the
DDR voltage to 2.6, then 2.7 volts before they stopped. Forgot to record
the Vtt value, will come back with that another time.

Thank you for taking the time to help.

--

Simon
  #22  
Old September 4th 04, 02:41 AM
Homer J. Simpson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The AGP bus and the DDR memory bus are both connected to th KT333
Northbridge chip. The PCI bus is connected to the VT8233ACE Southbridge
chip. So the answer to your question is no, the PCI bus is not on and not
the same as the AGP or memory bus. Notice that the AGP and DDR memory buses
are both connected to the same chip. The default AGP Voltage is 1.5V, you
cannot lower it, you can only raise it to 1.8V maximum by 0.1V increments.

When you say that an increase in video resolution seems to cause the
problem, that would point to the video card drawing more current as the
video resolution increases (more video memory on the graphics card being
used) causing the voltage to drop to both the video card and the memory
module(s). This would indicate that you really need to get that capacitor
soldered onto your board to solve this voltage regulation problem.

This motherboard can run the DDR memory synchronously at 266MHz (preferred)
or asynchronously at 333MHz. When overclockers increase the FSB beyond the
normal 266MHz this also increases the speed of the AGP bus (above 66MHz),
memory bus (above 266MHz), and PCI bus (above 33MHz). When the buses are
run beyond their original design specs the digital signals on the buses
start to degrade or become deformed from the ideal square wave and the
system is unable to tell the difference between a logical 0 and a logical 1.
It is the voltage level that determines a logical 0 or a logical 1. If the
digital signal on the memory bus transitions below the Vtt voltage then this
is a logical zero, if the digital signal's voltage is in the Vtt voltage
(1.25V) to DDR voltage (2.5V) range this is considered a logical one.
Overclockers will increase the DDR Voltage to "strengthen" the digital
signal on the memory bus. This is also the same reason for raising the
VCore Voltage for the CPU when overclocking. Overclockers usually overclock
because they can. The performance gains are usually noticable, otherwise
they wouldn't be doing it. Overclocking success and stability/reliability
are dependant upon the CPU model and the quality of RAM and good cooling of
the CPU.

"Simon Elliott" wrote in message
...
Homer J. Simpson wrote:

I would expect that you are going to get a lot of memory errors or
complete system freezeup or spontaneous reboot when you run memtest86.
You cannot rely on the results from memtest86 when you are not supplying
the correct power requirements to the memory modules. You need to test
the memory on a known stable system board to determine if your memory
modules are defective.

Thanks for the warning, makes sense. Details below, but I'm not confident
I can consider this board stable yet.

One thing puzzles me. Why do the problems seem to manifest mainly at
startup, occasionally at shutdown but not when Windows is running
normally? Almost always when the two initial Windows screens, the one with
the progress bars (or the CHKDSK screen) have just ended. I can run the
box on a full load (SETI screensaver) for several minutes, no problem.
Burn CDs, no problem. Occasions I might have guessed problems would occur,
but not so. Does the point at which the problem occurs tell us anything
about the hardware in the machine, or anything about what Windows is doing
as it starts?

Think about what what I've just written, it's when a screen mode changes -
low res to higher.

It's late, I'm tired and I readily agree I could be talking rubbish. But
aren't memory and an AGP graphic card on the same PCI bus? So might
lowering the AGP voltage also have a positive effect? Do they share the
same power line? The card is an Nvidia GeForce FX 5200, 128MB of memory.

It's just a thought, so be gentle with me if I'm talking b******s.
The DDR Voltages in the BIOS, that are above the standard 2.5V, are there
for the overclockers so that they can attempt to achieve system stability
when running their memory modules faster than its original design
specifications.

Are significant gains possible? Aside from SETI it's rare I max out my CPU
for any length of time. Occasional WAV or JPG editing needs it, but most
of the time I'm just ticking over. What are these guys doing that they
need the power? And are these systems reliable? Or is it just because they
can? No problem with that, by doing so they're helping me as well. Just
curious.

BSODs more frequent today, various types, half a dozen in total - four
just trying to start the box earlier this evening. So I increased the DDR
voltage to 2.6, then 2.7 volts before they stopped. Forgot to record the
Vtt value, will come back with that another time.

Thank you for taking the time to help.

--

Simon



  #23  
Old September 4th 04, 08:46 PM
Simon Elliott
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Homer J. Simpson wrote:

The AGP bus and the DDR memory bus are both connected to th KT333
Northbridge chip. The PCI bus is connected to the VT8233ACE Southbridge
chip. So the answer to your question is no, the PCI bus is not on and not
the same as the AGP or memory bus. Notice that the AGP and DDR memory buses
are both connected to the same chip. The default AGP Voltage is 1.5V, you
cannot lower it, you can only raise it to 1.8V maximum by 0.1V increments.


Please excuse my late night ramblings then.

When you say that an increase in video resolution seems to cause the
problem, that would point to the video card drawing more current as the
video resolution increases (more video memory on the graphics card being
used) causing the voltage to drop to both the video card and the memory
module(s).

I follow you.

This would indicate that you really need to get that capacitor
soldered onto your board to solve this voltage regulation problem.


I would agree. I'm getting BSODs almost every time I start the box now.
It's like an old car on a winter's morning. You've got to turn it over
several times and eventually it will fire up. That's with DDR voltage maxed.

This motherboard can run the DDR memory synchronously at 266MHz (preferred)
or asynchronously at 333MHz. When overclockers increase the FSB beyond the
normal 266MHz this also increases the speed of the AGP bus (above 66MHz),
memory bus (above 266MHz), and PCI bus (above 33MHz). When the buses are
run beyond their original design specs the digital signals on the buses
start to degrade or become deformed from the ideal square wave and the
system is unable to tell the difference between a logical 0 and a logical 1.
It is the voltage level that determines a logical 0 or a logical 1. If the
digital signal on the memory bus transitions below the Vtt voltage then this
is a logical zero, if the digital signal's voltage is in the Vtt voltage
(1.25V) to DDR voltage (2.5V) range this is considered a logical one.


I follow you.

Overclockers will increase the DDR Voltage to "strengthen" the digital
signal on the memory bus. This is also the same reason for raising the
VCore Voltage for the CPU when overclocking. Overclockers usually overclock
because they can. The performance gains are usually noticable, otherwise
they wouldn't be doing it. Overclocking success and stability/reliability
are dependant upon the CPU model and the quality of RAM and good cooling of
the CPU.


That bothers me. I bought this board because, at Rev 1.2, I thought
"That's got to be fairly stable. They'll have ironed out the bugs from
the first version.". I don't want to overclock, all I want is a stable
board that delivers what it promises. And at the moment this isn't.
Gigabyte boards were ok by me, until recent experience. How do I know
the next board I buy is going to be reliable? I guess I'm going to have
to research the next purchase, rather than buy on whim.


--

Simon
  #24  
Old September 4th 04, 10:19 PM
Homer J. Simpson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It's a good idea to check the news groups before buying. You will get an
idea of what problems people are having with particular models. Or you can
post your questions or requests for an opinion on a particular board model
before you purchase, especially if the board is obsolete or f it is very
new.

"Simon Elliott" wrote in message
...
Homer J. Simpson wrote:

The AGP bus and the DDR memory bus are both connected to th KT333
Northbridge chip. The PCI bus is connected to the VT8233ACE Southbridge
chip. So the answer to your question is no, the PCI bus is not on and not
the same as the AGP or memory bus. Notice that the AGP and DDR memory
buses are both connected to the same chip. The default AGP Voltage is
1.5V, you cannot lower it, you can only raise it to 1.8V maximum by 0.1V
increments.

Please excuse my late night ramblings then.

When you say that an increase in video resolution seems to cause the
problem, that would point to the video card drawing more current as the
video resolution increases (more video memory on the graphics card being
used) causing the voltage to drop to both the video card and the memory
module(s).

I follow you.

This would indicate that you really need to get that capacitor soldered
onto your board to solve this voltage regulation problem.

I would agree. I'm getting BSODs almost every time I start the box now.
It's like an old car on a winter's morning. You've got to turn it over
several times and eventually it will fire up. That's with DDR voltage
maxed.

This motherboard can run the DDR memory synchronously at 266MHz
(preferred) or asynchronously at 333MHz. When overclockers increase the
FSB beyond the normal 266MHz this also increases the speed of the AGP bus
(above 66MHz), memory bus (above 266MHz), and PCI bus (above 33MHz). When
the buses are run beyond their original design specs the digital signals
on the buses start to degrade or become deformed from the ideal square
wave and the system is unable to tell the difference between a logical 0
and a logical 1. It is the voltage level that determines a logical 0 or a
logical 1. If the digital signal on the memory bus transitions below the
Vtt voltage then this is a logical zero, if the digital signal's voltage
is in the Vtt voltage (1.25V) to DDR voltage (2.5V) range this is
considered a logical one.

I follow you.

Overclockers will increase the DDR Voltage to "strengthen" the digital
signal on the memory bus. This is also the same reason for raising the
VCore Voltage for the CPU when overclocking. Overclockers usually
overclock because they can. The performance gains are usually noticable,
otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. Overclocking success and
stability/reliability are dependant upon the CPU model and the quality of
RAM and good cooling of the CPU.

That bothers me. I bought this board because, at Rev 1.2, I thought
"That's got to be fairly stable. They'll have ironed out the bugs from the
first version.". I don't want to overclock, all I want is a stable board
that delivers what it promises. And at the moment this isn't. Gigabyte
boards were ok by me, until recent experience. How do I know the next
board I buy is going to be reliable? I guess I'm going to have to research
the next purchase, rather than buy on whim.


--

Simon



  #25  
Old September 5th 04, 06:05 PM
Simon Elliott
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Homer J. Simpson wrote:

It's a good idea to check the news groups before buying. You will get an
idea of what problems people are having with particular models. Or you can
post your questions or requests for an opinion on a particular board model
before you purchase, especially if the board is obsolete or f it is very
new.


Yeah, sorry, another late night rant on my part. Apologies

You're quite right, shop around and ask advice before buying.

BTW, two boots today and no BSODs.

--

Simon
 




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