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Why don't camera reviews cover the data connection to the PC?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 27th 08, 07:20 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Pat Cheney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Why don't camera reviews cover the data connection to the PC?

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:01:52 -0800, John Navas wrote:

You can NOT read the pictures in step 4 because Windows won't recognize the
card no matter what card reader you put the card in.


Not correct. See page 237 of the manual.
http://ftp.casio.co.jp/pub/world_manual/qv/en/EXZ1080_e.pdf


I read with interest that section but it doesn't contain any
troubleshooting information.

Most of the time, copying pictures from the 4GB flash card to the Windows
PC works just fine, whether we use a card reader or a proprietary cable in
the dual USB/AV camera port.

It's only sometimes that Windows dingdongs at us in step 4, saying only:
Disk is not formatted
The disk in drive E is not formatted.
Do you want to format it now? (yes) (no)

In fact, I have one right now that does this.
The card just won't format, even if I do the quick format option.

It won't even check disk:
C:\Documents and Settings\adminchkdsk E:
The type of the file system is RAW.
CHKDSK is not available for RAW drives.

The wierd thing is this same 4GB flash card works perfectly fine IN THE
CAMERA, and the pictures come off the card perfectly well using the
supplied cable, but there is no way to get the pictures off the card using
the card reader.

The ONLY way to get the pictures off the card (without resorting to linux
and dd and JPEG-heuristic programs) is to use the cable supplied with the
camera.

BTW, even Windows won't actually format the card if you hit the "yes"
button, so, again, you're stuck with a card that can only work with the
supplied cable and will not work with the card reader even though it worked
previously with that very same card reader. Other cards work fine with the
card reader, so, I suspect something went bad with the card, but, that's
the whole point.

If the card has a problem, you MUST use the cable, and if you don't have
the proprietary cable, then you lose your data. Why go through that hassle
when you can buy a camera that doesn't use a proprietary cable (and not
worry about AV ports because I've never used one in my life).

Anyway, I thank you again for digging up the reference manual, and I
appreciate your expert information (especially the jewel that no port
billed as a combined AV/USB port can possibly be a mini-usb port!!!).

You wouldn't have known all this about the bad flash card unless I was
specific so I don't fault you; in fact, I commend you for helping me
understand that a combined USB/AV port can't possibly be mini-USB even when
it says it's USB all over the place.

  #2  
Old December 27th 08, 07:29 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
John Navas
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Why don't camera reviews cover the data connection to the PC?

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:20:45 -0800, Pat Cheney wrote
in :

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:01:52 -0800, John Navas wrote:

You can NOT read the pictures in step 4 because Windows won't recognize the
card no matter what card reader you put the card in.


Not correct. See page 237 of the manual.
http://ftp.casio.co.jp/pub/world_manual/qv/en/EXZ1080_e.pdf


I read with interest that section but it doesn't contain any
troubleshooting information.


I cited it only to show the camera does use a compatible card file
system that should always be readable.

Most of the time, copying pictures from the 4GB flash card to the Windows
PC works just fine, whether we use a card reader or a proprietary cable in
the dual USB/AV camera port.

It's only sometimes that Windows dingdongs at us in step 4, saying only:
Disk is not formatted
The disk in drive E is not formatted.
Do you want to format it now? (yes) (no)


That means the card is corrupted, the reader is screwy, or the card is
not seated properly in the reader. I'd seriously consider getting one
or all items fixed under warranty.

In fact, I have one right now that does this.
The card just won't format, even if I do the quick format option.


Format from Disk Management.

It won't even check disk:


Don't use CHKDSK on it.

The wierd thing is this same 4GB flash card works perfectly fine IN THE
CAMERA, and the pictures come off the card perfectly well using the
supplied cable, but there is no way to get the pictures off the card using
the card reader.


The camera is just being less fussy.

The ONLY way to get the pictures off the card (without resorting to linux
and dd and JPEG-heuristic programs) is to use the cable supplied with the
camera.


That's a work-around. You need to fix the problem.

BTW, even Windows won't actually format the card if you hit the "yes"
button, so, again, you're stuck with a card that can only work with the
supplied cable and will not work with the card reader even though it worked
previously with that very same card reader. Other cards work fine with the
card reader, so, I suspect something went bad with the card, but, that's
the whole point.


Possibly, but I doubt it. Try the diagnostic I referenced.

If the card has a problem, you MUST use the cable, and if you don't have
the proprietary cable, then you lose your data. Why go through that hassle
when you can buy a camera that doesn't use a proprietary cable (and not
worry about AV ports because I've never used one in my life).


That's a work-around. You need to fix the problem.

You wouldn't have known all this about the bad flash card unless I was
specific so I don't fault you; in fact, I commend you for helping me
understand that a combined USB/AV port can't possibly be mini-USB even when
it says it's USB all over the place.


It actually doesn't say that.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John
  #3  
Old December 27th 08, 09:04 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Marco Tedaldi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Why don't camera reviews cover the data connection to the PC?

Pat Cheney schrieb:
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:01:52 -0800, John Navas wrote:

You can NOT read the pictures in step 4 because Windows won't recognize the
card no matter what card reader you put the card in.

Not correct. See page 237 of the manual.
http://ftp.casio.co.jp/pub/world_manual/qv/en/EXZ1080_e.pdf


I read with interest that section but it doesn't contain any
troubleshooting information.

Most of the time, copying pictures from the 4GB flash card to the Windows
PC works just fine, whether we use a card reader or a proprietary cable in
the dual USB/AV camera port.

It's only sometimes that Windows dingdongs at us in step 4, saying only:
Disk is not formatted
The disk in drive E is not formatted.
Do you want to format it now? (yes) (no)

In fact, I have one right now that does this.
The card just won't format, even if I do the quick format option.

This can have several different reasons...
- bad card
- bad filesystem on card
- bad cardreader
- bad cable (from card reader to usb port)


It won't even check disk:
C:\Documents and Settings\adminchkdsk E:
The type of the file system is RAW.
CHKDSK is not available for RAW drives.

windows does not recognize the filesystem on the card...

The wierd thing is this same 4GB flash card works perfectly fine IN THE
CAMERA, and the pictures come off the card perfectly well using the
supplied cable, but there is no way to get the pictures off the card using
the card reader.

sounds like a broken filesystem to me... the camera uses different
software to read/write the filesystem than windows so it might just
ignore some errors..

The ONLY way to get the pictures off the card (without resorting to linux
and dd and JPEG-heuristic programs) is to use the cable supplied with the
camera.

are you using linux on the same computer and with the same card reader
as you are using with windows?

BTW, even Windows won't actually format the card if you hit the "yes"
button, so, again, you're stuck with a card that can only work with the
supplied cable and will not work with the card reader even though it worked
previously with that very same card reader. Other cards work fine with the
card reader, so, I suspect something went bad with the card, but, that's
the whole point.

I would resort to linux and blank the whole card first
dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdx (where sdx is the device you get for your
card, be REALLY careful there to get the right device, or you will
overwrite the wrong stuff! No 1 after the x.)
make a new partition table with only one partition on your card (I
prefer cfdisk for this)
make a new filesystem on your card
mkfs.vfat /dev/sdx1 (again, be careful to get the device right! this
time with "1" in the devicename.)
Now you should have a working card again...

If the card has a problem, you MUST use the cable, and if you don't have
the proprietary cable, then you lose your data. Why go through that hassle
when you can buy a camera that doesn't use a proprietary cable (and not
worry about AV ports because I've never used one in my life).

Same here. But I seems that almost all cameras have an A/V-Port. Even
higher end cameras. I also can't imagine a use for the direct-print
button on my EOS 40D.

I hope you can solve at least these issues now... A card should really
be readable in a card reader all the time. If it is not readable
something is definitely broken.

kruemi


--
Dimage A2, Agfa isolette
http://flickr.com/photos/kruemi
And a cool timekiller: http://www.starpirates.net/register.php?referer=9708
  #4  
Old December 27th 08, 09:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Pat Cheney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Why don't camera reviews cover the data connection to the PC?

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 22:04:30 +0100, Marco Tedaldi wrote:
I hope you can solve at least these issues now... A card should really
be readable in a card reader all the time. If it is not readable
something is definitely broken.


I followed the suggestion to format the flash card while it's connected to
the Windows PC (there is no Linux on my system) via the camera.

It formatted fine while connected to the PC via the camera.
I even formatted it twice, just to make sure (the slow format).

Then, I plugged the card into the card reader.
Guess what? It still wouldn't mount on WinXP and the format failed.

The less-than-helpful error message in the Windows (slow) format was:
Formatting Removable Disk (E Windows was unable to complete the format.

Yet, back in the camera, it works fine.

I'll dig a bit more on this perplexing problem which requires a cable to
the camera in order to use the flash card on the PC!
  #5  
Old December 27th 08, 09:31 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Pat Cheney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Why don't camera reviews cover the data connection to the PC?

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 13:26:12 -0800, Pat Cheney wrote:

The less-than-helpful error message in the Windows (slow) format was:
Formatting Removable Disk (E Windows was unable to complete the format.


I tried again by hooking the flash card to the flash card reader via USB.

Format Removable Disk (E
Capacity 3.79 GB
File System FAT32
Allocation unit size Default allocation size
Volume label (blank)
Start
WARNING: Formatting will erase ALL data on this disk.
To format the disk, click OK. To quit, click CANCEL.
OK
The progress bar runs to completion, left to right
Up pops a dialog box saying
Formatting Removable Disk (E Windows was unable to complete the format.
OK
Close
The disk in drive E: cannot be formatted.
  #6  
Old December 27th 08, 10:18 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
John Navas
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Why don't camera reviews cover the data connection to the PC?

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 13:26:12 -0800, Pat Cheney wrote
in :

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 22:04:30 +0100, Marco Tedaldi wrote:
I hope you can solve at least these issues now... A card should really
be readable in a card reader all the time. If it is not readable
something is definitely broken.


I followed the suggestion to format the flash card while it's connected to
the Windows PC (there is no Linux on my system) via the camera.

It formatted fine while connected to the PC via the camera.
I even formatted it twice, just to make sure (the slow format).

Then, I plugged the card into the card reader.
Guess what? It still wouldn't mount on WinXP and the format failed.

The less-than-helpful error message in the Windows (slow) format was:
Formatting Removable Disk (E Windows was unable to complete the format.

Yet, back in the camera, it works fine.

I'll dig a bit more on this perplexing problem which requires a cable to
the camera in order to use the flash card on the PC!


Sounds like a serious problem with your computer.
You may want to try a different computer and card reader/writer.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John
  #7  
Old December 27th 08, 10:20 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
John Navas
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Why don't camera reviews cover the data connection to the PC?

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 13:31:05 -0800, Pat Cheney wrote
in :

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 13:26:12 -0800, Pat Cheney wrote:

The less-than-helpful error message in the Windows (slow) format was:
Formatting Removable Disk (E Windows was unable to complete the format.


I tried again by hooking the flash card to the flash card reader via USB.

Format Removable Disk (E
Capacity 3.79 GB
File System FAT32
Allocation unit size Default allocation size
Volume label (blank)
Start
WARNING: Formatting will erase ALL data on this disk.
To format the disk, click OK. To quit, click CANCEL.
OK
The progress bar runs to completion, left to right
Up pops a dialog box saying
Formatting Removable Disk (E Windows was unable to complete the format.
OK
Close
The disk in drive E: cannot be formatted.


Did you use Disk Administrator, as I suggested?

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John
  #8  
Old December 27th 08, 10:24 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
John Navas
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Why don't camera reviews cover the data connection to the PC?

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:20:45 -0800, John Navas
wrote in
:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 13:31:05 -0800, Pat Cheney wrote
in :

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 13:26:12 -0800, Pat Cheney wrote:

The less-than-helpful error message in the Windows (slow) format was:
Formatting Removable Disk (E Windows was unable to complete the format.


I tried again by hooking the flash card to the flash card reader via USB.

Format Removable Disk (E
Capacity 3.79 GB
File System FAT32
Allocation unit size Default allocation size
Volume label (blank)
Start
WARNING: Formatting will erase ALL data on this disk.
To format the disk, click OK. To quit, click CANCEL.
OK
The progress bar runs to completion, left to right
Up pops a dialog box saying
Formatting Removable Disk (E Windows was unable to complete the format.
OK
Close
The disk in drive E: cannot be formatted.


Did you use Disk Administrator, as I suggested?


p.s. Delete any existing partition and re-partition before formatting.
Be sure to use FAT32.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John
  #9  
Old December 27th 08, 10:56 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Franc Zabkar
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,118
Default Why don't camera reviews cover the data connection to the PC?

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:20:45 -0800, Pat Cheney put
finger to keyboard and composed:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:01:52 -0800, John Navas wrote:

You can NOT read the pictures in step 4 because Windows won't recognize the
card no matter what card reader you put the card in.


Not correct. See page 237 of the manual.
http://ftp.casio.co.jp/pub/world_manual/qv/en/EXZ1080_e.pdf


I read with interest that section but it doesn't contain any
troubleshooting information.

Most of the time, copying pictures from the 4GB flash card to the Windows
PC works just fine, whether we use a card reader or a proprietary cable in
the dual USB/AV camera port.

It's only sometimes that Windows dingdongs at us in step 4, saying only:
Disk is not formatted
The disk in drive E is not formatted.
Do you want to format it now? (yes) (no)

In fact, I have one right now that does this.
The card just won't format, even if I do the quick format option.

It won't even check disk:
C:\Documents and Settings\adminchkdsk E:
The type of the file system is RAW.
CHKDSK is not available for RAW drives.

The wierd thing is this same 4GB flash card works perfectly fine IN THE
CAMERA, and the pictures come off the card perfectly well using the
supplied cable, but there is no way to get the pictures off the card using
the card reader.

The ONLY way to get the pictures off the card (without resorting to linux
and dd and JPEG-heuristic programs) is to use the cable supplied with the
camera.

BTW, even Windows won't actually format the card if you hit the "yes"
button, so, again, you're stuck with a card that can only work with the
supplied cable and will not work with the card reader even though it worked
previously with that very same card reader. Other cards work fine with the
card reader, so, I suspect something went bad with the card, but, that's
the whole point.


Does this card have a Master Boot Record and Partition Table, or is it
formatted as a Super Floppy? I don't use Win XP, but is it possible
that XP doesn't recognise the latter?

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
  #10  
Old December 28th 08, 01:42 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Pat Cheney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Why don't camera reviews cover the data connection to the PC?

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:18:34 -0800, John Navas wrote:

Sounds like a serious problem with your computer.
You may want to try a different computer and card reader/writer.


I tried multiple computers and card readers. So, I think it's the card.
I didn't think about wiping out the "partition" ... I'll look up how to do
that.

As for choosing FAT32, there wasn't any other choice in the format even
though there was a pulldown for it so I left it at FAT32.

Is this the right "disk administrator"?
http://windowsitpro.com/article/arti...nistrator.html
 




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