Storageworks (4214) questions..

LC, Jeff, et-al,

In looking for a Storageworks enclosure (4214 preferably), what sorts
of features should I be looking for in order to connect it to my existing
SA3200 (for now until I move up to a SA5300 at some point) on my 6400R?

Things I see on some and not on others (care of E*bay of course) :

1) EMU module (environmental module) -- is this needed or is this just
something that can tell me how hot the backplane is and that sort of
thing (e.g. icing on the cake per-se). In particular, if this needs
special Compaq software to communicate with it, I may not be interested
since I'm running Linux (FC3).

2) Single vs. Dual supplies -- is it safe to assume one of these will run
(without complaining -- specifically it will still boot without prompting)
with a single supply and not require both supplies to be present?

3) Single vs. Dual Port I/O card -- Some vendors don't specifically talk
about these cards -- I'm assuming that they're required and that perhaps
some vendors might not supply ANY card which means no connecto when I
receive it and more $$ to buy that afterwards.. For now, I don't believe
I need anything beyond a single port, but a dual port would be welcome
if the price was right.

3) Cabling -- some have 'em and some dont. I'm currently looking for ones
that supply the cable and rails instead of needing more add-ons.

Below is one I'm looking at, but I don't really like the shipping costs
for this thing -- I really wish I had a local vendor I could get one from
locally and just p/u.. I guess I could pester some of the nearby e*bay
vendors that regularly sell Compaq "stuff" and see if they can keep an eye
out for me..

http://makeashorterlink.com/?A6DC2264D

I was looking at some of the U2 or UE enclosures, but there really aren't
too many of them being sold lately and the ones that are being sold are higher
priced than many of the 4214's -- perhaps because they're more scarce?

MTIA!

Rick F. wrote:
LC, Jeff, et-al,

In looking for a Storageworks enclosure (4214 preferably), what sorts
of features should I be looking for in order to connect it to my existing
SA3200 (for now until I move up to a SA5300 at some point) on my 6400R?


I have some U1 enclosures (seven drives) but have never run a U2. But I
can give some general info.

First, dual power supplies will (most likely) be required to run a full
set of 14 drives. A general rule is "one ps per every seven drives", so
if you are not going to fill it up, on supply might work.

The cable needed is pretty straight forward...but you may pay around
$20 for one if you buy it seperately. Take a look at the external
connector on your 3200. The enclosure will have the same type of
connector...so you need a straight through cable with the same
connector on each end.

A dual I/O card is used to daisy chain this enclosure with another one.
You cable out of the server to the first connection, then cable out of
the second connection to another enclosure. If you do not use the
second connection (no additional arrays to hook up) then it will have
to have a terminator attached. I think you probably want a single I/O
card.

LC is an authority on the 3200...they seem to be one of his pet items.
I have never hooked 14 drives to a single channel on a 3200, but I am
pretty sure it can handle it. LC can cornfirm this.

I have never had an EMU and have no idea what it does.

Jeff

"Jeffrey Alsip" wrote in message
ups.com...

Rick F. wrote:
LC, Jeff, et-al,

In looking for a Storageworks enclosure (4214 preferably), what sorts
of features should I be looking for in order to connect it to my existing
SA3200 (for now until I move up to a SA5300 at some point) on my 6400R?


I have some U1 enclosures (seven drives) but have never run a U2. But I
can give some general info.

U1, U2 .. .tomoato, to-mah-to ... the number indicates how many channels
there are. U1 = single channel. U2 = dual channel. simple simple.

First, dual power supplies will (most likely) be required to run a full
set of 14 drives. A general rule is "one ps per every seven drives", so
if you are not going to fill it up, on supply might work.

Not REQUIRED ... but you should have it


The cable needed is pretty straight forward...but you may pay around
$20 for one if you buy it seperately. Take a look at the external
connector on your 3200. The enclosure will have the same type of
connector...so you need a straight through cable with the same
connector on each end.

A dual I/O card is used to daisy chain this enclosure with another one.
You cable out of the server to the first connection, then cable out of
the second connection to another enclosure. If you do not use the
second connection (no additional arrays to hook up) then it will have
to have a terminator attached. I think you probably want a single I/O
card.

Sorry man, this is just wrong.
when you put the dual channel controller in there, it actually splits the
backplane in two. So, you have 7 drives on the left side (channel 0, or A)
and 7 on the right (channel 1, or B).

With the dual card, you can increase your agg throughput by hooking up 2
controller channels to each port on I/O port. Split your array volumes
across the backplane, and yer off and running.


LC is an authority on the 3200...they seem to be one of his pet items.
I have never hooked 14 drives to a single channel on a 3200, but I am
pretty sure it can handle it. LC can cornfirm this.

I have never hooked up an SA3200 to a 14drive device on a single channel,
but it should be able to handle it. Actually, I am finding the SA5300's to
be much more to my liking.

I have never had an EMU and have no idea what it does.

EMU - environmental monitoring uint. Yah, it should be there. Thats the
device that watches yer fans and temps and things and talks to the Storage
Agents to let ou know when it stubs its toes.

Jeff

In article , NuTCrAcKeR wrote:

"Jeffrey Alsip" wrote in message

EMU - environmental monitoring uint. Yah, it should be there. Thats the
device that watches yer fans and temps and things and talks to the Storage
Agents to let ou know when it stubs its toes.

Thanks Jeff & LC.. As usual, you've got great info! I'll keep this in mind
when I'm poking around looking for deals...

-- Rick

"Rick F." wrote in message
...
In article , NuTCrAcKeR
wrote:

"Jeffrey Alsip" wrote in message

EMU - environmental monitoring uint. Yah, it should be there. Thats the
device that watches yer fans and temps and things and talks to the
Storage
Agents to let ou know when it stubs its toes.

Thanks Jeff & LC.. As usual, you've got great info! I'll keep this in
mind
when I'm poking around looking for deals...

-- Rick

"NuTCrAcKeR" wrote in message
t...

"Jeffrey Alsip" wrote in message
ups.com...

Rick F. wrote:
LC, Jeff, et-al,

In looking for a Storageworks enclosure (4214 preferably), what sorts
of features should I be looking for in order to connect it to my
existing
SA3200 (for now until I move up to a SA5300 at some point) on my 6400R?


I have some U1 enclosures (seven drives) but have never run a U2. But I
can give some general info.

U1, U2 .. .tomoato, to-mah-to ... the number indicates how many channels
there are. U1 = single channel. U2 = dual channel. simple simple.

First, dual power supplies will (most likely) be required to run a full
set of 14 drives. A general rule is "one ps per every seven drives", so
if you are not going to fill it up, on supply might work.

Not REQUIRED ... but you should have it


The cable needed is pretty straight forward...but you may pay around
$20 for one if you buy it seperately. Take a look at the external
connector on your 3200. The enclosure will have the same type of
connector...so you need a straight through cable with the same
connector on each end.

A dual I/O card is used to daisy chain this enclosure with another one.
You cable out of the server to the first connection, then cable out of
the second connection to another enclosure. If you do not use the
second connection (no additional arrays to hook up) then it will have
to have a terminator attached. I think you probably want a single I/O
card.

Sorry man, this is just wrong.
when you put the dual channel controller in there, it actually splits the
backplane in two. So, you have 7 drives on the left side (channel 0, or A)
and 7 on the right (channel 1, or B).

With the dual card, you can increase your agg throughput by hooking up 2
controller channels to each port on I/O port. Split your array volumes
across the backplane, and yer off and running.


LC is an authority on the 3200...they seem to be one of his pet items.
I have never hooked 14 drives to a single channel on a 3200, but I am
pretty sure it can handle it. LC can cornfirm this.

I have never hooked up an SA3200 to a 14drive device on a single channel,
but it should be able to handle it. Actually, I am finding the SA5300's to
be much more to my liking.

I have never had an EMU and have no idea what it does.

EMU - environmental monitoring uint. Yah, it should be there. Thats the
device that watches yer fans and temps and things and talks to the Storage
Agents to let ou know when it stubs its toes.

Jeff




Nutcracker is correct, but here is a little more.

I'm not familiar with the term U1 and U2, but that vintage will require a
HD68 pin cable on the enclosure side and a VHDI 68 on the server raid card
using the 3200 or 5200. Either 1 or 2 cables depending on single or dual
channel.

The Compaq UE enclosure (12 drives max) I am familiar with as we pulled out
10 units some time ago. They use the same cable noted above, also they use
the old style drives.

The 4200 series (what you noted) is SCSI 2, a slower throughput than SCSI 3.
The 4300 series is SCSI 3. All the 4200 and 4300 series use a VHDI 68
connector, 1 or 2 connectors depending on module (single channel or dual
channel)

That VHDI 68 connector is the same connector as is on the 3200 and 5200 raid
controllers.
That cable on ebay will sell from 10 to 45 bucks (plus shipping) each.

Watch out on the controller and emu card on the array enclosure. Make sure
they are included as some pull the modules out and sell a shell. The 4200
and 4300 series will both run on one power supply but for the fans to
throttle down to a slower speed you need two supplies. I have plenty if you
need one. The emu module is normally there, but it is required for the
enclosure to work. Again Nutcracker is correct on the dual channel splitting
the unit into two sets of 7 drives. Many possibilities there, Nutcracker
noted using both on one card for more throughput, another use is 7 drives on
one server and seven on another server.

If you get a 4200 series with A U2 module, the enclosure will support U2 or
U3 drives but you only have U2 speed. That is what the 3200 array cards are,
U2. The 5200 cards are U3 but will support all U2 and U3 enclosures.

I have used about all the various 4200 and 4300's, they are good units.

Phil

In article , Phil wrote:

Nutcracker is correct, but here is a little more.

Thanks for the extra info Phil.. I've adjusted my search again and
I think I'll focus on the 4300 series of enclosures and skip right
over the 42xx models. It looks like I can get a nice 4314 or 4354R
for about 20% more than the equivalent 4214 model and that way I can
get the higher performance once I get the 5300 series controller later.

I do have one more question.. With any of these controllers, is it safe
to assume that I need to have all drive bays plugged with either a
drive or blank in order to operate the unit -- likely for cooling + dust
control reasons? I found one vendor that was shipping theirs with some
blanks but not all.. Anyway, thought I'd better ask instead of assuming.

Thanks!

"Rick F." wrote in message
...
In article , Phil wrote:

Nutcracker is correct, but here is a little more.

Thanks for the extra info Phil.. I've adjusted my search again and
I think I'll focus on the 4300 series of enclosures and skip right
over the 42xx models. It looks like I can get a nice 4314 or 4354R
for about 20% more than the equivalent 4214 model and that way I can
get the higher performance once I get the 5300 series controller later.

I do have one more question.. With any of these controllers, is it safe
to assume that I need to have all drive bays plugged with either a
drive or blank in order to operate the unit -- likely for cooling + dust
control reasons? I found one vendor that was shipping theirs with some
blanks but not all.. Anyway, thought I'd better ask instead of assuming.

Thanks!


Yes, something needs to plug any space with no drive. The fans on the rear
power supplies suck the air by the drives and exhaust through the rear. It
is required to keep the drives cool.

Another note as you look at these enclosures. There is a 4350R enclosure,
it's a dual Bus 10-Bay Enclosure that takes ONLY 1.6 inch drives.
They are pricey and if you don't buy it with drives, best to avoid that
model. It is SCSI 3. I have a bunch of those too with all 73 gig drives.

The 4200 and 4300 all have interchangeable modules and power supplies, the
emu is the same on all but you have single or dual channel SSCI 2 or SCSI
3. You can also get U320 modules and upgrade any of that series to 320's,
they are expensive though.

Personally, I like the looks of the 4200 better, they are the G1 series
Compaq white with the handles on either side. The 4314R and 4354R are the
new brown color matching the G2 series of Compaq. Also the 4314R's may be
branded HP or Compaq, there are minor cosmetic differences in the two I
still have all these models in service, but the 4200's we upgraded, the
input module changed to SCSI 3. We still use a bunch of the DL380 DL580 G1's
here so that's why I like the matching 4200 white case.

Phil

NuTCrAcKeR wrote:
Sorry man, this is just wrong.
when you put the dual channel controller in there, it actually splits the
backplane in two. So, you have 7 drives on the left side (channel 0, or A)
and 7 on the right (channel 1, or B).

With the dual card, you can increase your agg throughput by hooking up 2
controller channels to each port on I/O port. Split your array volumes
across the backplane, and yer off and running.


Of course you're right. I was mistaking this with my U1 units ability
to add a SECOND card for the daisy chaining that I described. So my U1
does not have a dual card, it has dual cardS.

Jeff

In article , Phil wrote:

Yes, something needs to plug any space with no drive. The fans on the rear
power supplies suck the air by the drives and exhaust through the rear. It
is required to keep the drives cool.

Ok.. Note taken..

Another note as you look at these enclosures. There is a 4350R enclosure,
it's a dual Bus 10-Bay Enclosure that takes ONLY 1.6 inch drives.
They are pricey and if you don't buy it with drives, best to avoid that
model. It is SCSI 3. I have a bunch of those too with all 73 gig drives.

Note taken here as well.. I've not seen any of those yet.. All i've seen are
4314s or 4354's which I gather require dual ports on the raid array (for the
4354s that is)

The 4200 and 4300 all have interchangeable modules and power supplies, the
emu is the same on all but you have single or dual channel SSCI 2 or SCSI
3. You can also get U320 modules and upgrade any of that series to 320's,
they are expensive though.

Are you saying that I could buy a 4214 enclosure today for instance use it
for a year (in a SCSI2 environment), then later, upgrade the plug-in module
from the normal SCSI-2 to a SCSI3 version of it (from a 4314 for instance)
and assuming I plug it into a SA5300 (or equiv) get higher throughput speeds
of the SCSI3 bus (assuming I had SCSI3 drives of course)? I'm going to guess
that's what you mean and I can infer from that, that the backplane for a 4214
or 4314 are identical from a form factor/plug/electrical point of view....?

Personally, I like the looks of the 4200 better, they are the G1 series
Compaq white with the handles on either side. The 4314R and 4354R are the
new brown color matching the G2 series of Compaq. Also the 4314R's may be
branded HP or Compaq, there are minor cosmetic differences in the two I
still have all these models in service, but the 4200's we upgraded, the
input module changed to SCSI 3. We still use a bunch of the DL380 DL580 G1's
here so that's why I like the matching 4200 white case.

If all of the above is true, perhaps I'll just keep an eye out for a 4214
so it will match my 6400r and I'll just upgrade it at a later date to the
SCSI3 speed range. MTIA!

-- Rick