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#31
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BLUE RIBBON POST for sure. compliments of Evga
"R420" wrote in message om... found a few old articles on Nvidia's early years. this early time in Nvidia's existance is closely tied to Sega. __________________________________________________ __________________________ ___ NVIDIA's Console Chip NV2 NVIDIA's financial savior came in the form of a video game console, more specifically, a Sega video game console. Through the NV1, NVIDIA had established a strong working relationship with Sega. The chip promoted sales of Saturn accessories and Sega programmers were somewhat familiar with quadratic surfaces after having ported a small number of games for the NV1. Most importantly, Direct3D was a non-issue because many of the Japanese console developers were ready and willing to use the unconventional technology of quadratic surfaces if it brought additional performance. Sega funded a significant portion of the research on the NV2 and it is reasonable to suggest that NVIDIA might not exist it its capacity today if it were not for Sega's support of the NV2. Unfortunately, Sega eventually dropped the NV2 to give the Dreamcast a better future through an easier programming environment. Sega ended up going to 3dfx and later to PowerVR for the graphics technology in the Dreamcast. Little else is known about the NV2 story and the timing of events. Despite limited success of the NV1 and failure of the NV2, NVIDIA was not ready to quit. There's something cool about covert intelligence agents and clandestine ventures. Secret agents have to combine intelligence, resourcefulness, and style. Who wouldn't want to be Ethan Hunt in Mission Impossible? Who knows how Solid Snake came up with his inventive "cardboard box" trick in Metal Gear Solid? Of course, you certainly cannot forget James Bond with his cars, his gadgets, and his women. In the recent weeks, FiringSquad had a chance to play secret agent too! The purpose of our mission wasn't to ferret out moles within our organization, save the world, or even order martinis, shaken-not-stirred. We wanted to know the answer to a gamer's question: What the heck was the NV2? After a few "little birdies" flew in our window, we were able to piece together a detailed account of NVIDIA NV2, the chip that predated the RIVA 128. This is the chip that Sega originally commissioned for its next-generation console, the Dreamcast. The NV2 is the chip that was NVIDIA's greatest fiasco. __________________________________________________ __________________________ ___ The Beginning In our History of NVIDIA article we hypothesized that Sega started a relationship with NVIDIA only after having spent some time porting games over to the NV1. This was a mistake -the connection traces further back than that. To begin our story, we need to go all the way back to the Sega Saturn. The Saturn used a Sega-developed graphics chip that was considered by most of the world to be dreadful. The geometric primitive was a four-vertex polygon (not three). As a result, triangles on the Saturn had to be represented by a degenerate quad with two vertices existing at the same location. Developers hated quads and wanted something better, namely triangles. With the Sony PlayStation handily killing the Sega Saturn at retail, Sega decided that it needed to partner with a company with 3D graphics experience for its next-generation console." Quad Texture Maps, bad 1995: The launch of the NV1 As we mentioned in our History of NVIDIA article, the NV1 was NVIDIA's first chip and was considered to be ahead of its time in many regards. Specifically, the NV1 was novel in that it integrated audio and I/O processing on a single chip along with video. While integrated solutions may not have been appealing on the PC, this was perfect for the console, as a highly integrated part would keep costs low. Sega hoped that it could get NVIDIA to tweak the NV1's 3D architecture for its console needs, allowing the company to take advantage of the chip's low-cost graphics with integrated audio and I/O processing. A high level deal was made between NVIDIA and Sega of Japan involving approximately 7 million dollars in investment capital. Interestingly enough, the upper management at Sega had been so mesmerized by the possibilities of integration that the deal was signed before the NV1 was actually released to retail, before Sega even knew what NVIDIA's idea of 3D was. More quads! The NV1 was technologically superior to other chips of that era from two perspectives: audio and I/O. Unfortunately, the quadratic texture maps were not so appealing, and outside of NVIDIA, no one believed in quadratic texture maps -not even Sega. The NV1 used forward-rendered quads, which was essentially what the Saturn had done, and was exactly what developers hated most about the Saturn. Now NVIDIA was trying to convince Sega that it was still a good approach. The tech demos of round spheres always looked nice, but in real-world games, working with quadratic texture maps was horrendous. Even simple things such as collision detection become very difficult. Back to the storyline At this time (1995-1996), NVIDIA was still a fledgling startup with approximately 30 employees and NVIDIA's Chief Technical Officer, Curtis Priem, was enamored by quadratic texture maps. As CTO, he made quadratic texture maps the standard at NVIDIA. Shortly after executives at Sega and NVIDIA had signed the deal, Sega programming legend Yu Suzuki entered the scene. Although the original contract had already been signed at high-levels, the arcade manufacturing groups had a great deal of influence over what chip was going to be used in the next console, but despite their power, the AM groups did not see the console as their core market or concern. While Sega had its ups and downs in the home market competing against the likes of Nintendo and later Sony, its arcade division traditionally did very well. Indeed, although Capcom's Street Fighter II was the most popular arcade game in the world since Pac-Man, Sega's Virtua Fighter actually had a lead in Japan for a short time. Suzuki-san, head of Sega's flagship AM2 division, assigned one of his best graphics people to interface with NVIDIA in the US. Although we do not have this engineer's name, we know that he had previously interfaced with Real3D in the past, and, from outside reports, had an exceptional understanding of 3D graphics techniques and rendering pipelines. Most importantly, he knew exactly what the AM software development groups at Sega needed in a graphics chip, namely triangles. Meetings were held to discuss the rendering primitive for the NV2. Sega pushed for real triangle acceleration to be included in the NV2, but NVIDIA did not comply. NVIDIA insisted that time was better allocated developing the quadratic texture map portion of the NV2 and adapting existing triangle-based development tools such as 3D modelers to QTMs." The End of the NV2 Just say no to triangles Despite Sega of America's and the AM2 representative's best efforts, NVIDIA remained adamant on using quadratic texture maps and refused to concentrate on triangle primitives. In the end, our sources tell us that NVIDIA may have eventually agreed to support better acceleration for triangles, but by then, Sega of Japan had already begun to distance itself from NVIDIA, and Sega's US team was quietly told "not to worry about the NVIDIA thing anymore." As a Japanese company, Sega could never kill a deal, for there was a need to maintain honor and face. These cultural elements can be seen today when top Japanese executives choose to demote themselves after poor earnings reports, or when disappointing employees are "transferred" to small offices and given no assignments rather than fired. The expectation is that the shame alone will lead the employee to quit himself. Pico? NVIDIA was relegated to this similar position. Sega told NVIDIA that they were still contracted to provide a chip for Sega, but that it was not going to be used in its next generation console. The plan was to use the chip in a less demanding multimedia consumer product, probably the next-generation Sega Pico. The Sega Pico, as some of you may not know, was a kid's educational toy targeted for children, 2-8 years old. It was a stylus and tablet that connected to the TV and used cartridges as its media. The Pico had such great titles as "Magic Crayons", "Richard Scarry's Huckle Lowly's Busiest Day Ever", and even a few Disney titles. Basically, NVIDIA was most likely delegated to work on a glorified See 'n Say. The death of NV2 What was the actual performance of the NV2? The truth will never be known. When the first silicon came back, it didn't work. NVIDIA respun the chip a few more times, but it soon became clear that the chip had more than just minor problems. With such dismal results, the NV2 team eventually called it quits. To the best of our knowledge, the NV2 never existed as a working product." Sega Black Belt Real3D and 3dfx With the collapse of the NVIDIA deal, Sega started looking for another partner and eventually hooked up with Real3D, then a subsidiary of Lockheed Martin. This seemed like a good match as Sega had worked with Real3D on the development of the Model 2 arcade machine, and would later work together again on the Model 3. The console chip would likely have been at the same performance level or just slightly below Real3D's PC chip, the Intel i740. The console was codenamed "Black Belt". Sega reasoned that casual gamers could get a "white belt" gaming system such as a PC, but real gamers would want something better, a "black belt" system. Although there were discussions between Real3D and Sega, Real3D never made any silicon for the Black Belt. 3dfx had beaten Real3D by offering better performance and a more robust feature set. Officially, Real3D stated that the business model for the console market did not create a win-win situation with Sega as it did in the high-end arcade market. Sega awarded 3dfx with the chip contract. The console's Black Belt name remained even after the graphics chip was to be replaced by a variant of the 3dfx Voodoo2. 3dfx, NEC, and VideoLogic While Sega of America was working on the 3dfx-based console, Sega of Japan was tasked with the development of a parallel console powered by NEC/VideoLogic's PowerVR chipset, codenamed Katana. The teams were told that the "winner" wouldn't necessarily be the machine with the best performance. It would be the one which would have games up and running more quickly. The contest would became an exercise in futility as Sega of Japan and NEC eventually struck a deal to use the PowerVR chip before the two consoles were actually ready to be compared. Black Belt engineers insisted that their 3dfx-powered system would have won the race. After walking through the entire PC 3D graphics industry, Sega finally found its chip. Fortunately for Sega, the PowerVR Series 2 chip, which NEC and VideoLogic had been co-developing for some time, turned out to be a most impressive chip for the console, with exciting features such as texture compression and deferred rendering. The PowerVR-based console was presented to the AM groups who gave it the green light: the Dreamcast was born. 3dfx later sued Sega, NEC and VideoLogic, alleging that Sega deliberately mislead 3dfx to gain access to confidential technologies before choosing to go with NEC and VideoLogic. 3dfx, Sega, NEC, and VideoLogic eventually reached a settlement out of court." NVIDIA Changes Jen-Hsun Huang, NVIDIA's CEO, was disappointed by everything that had led to the collapse of the Sega deal. As CEO, he remained an active participant in meetings and was intimate with the technical decisions made at NVIDIA. He knew something had to change. The failure of the NV2 prompted Huang to pick up David Kirk as Chief Scientist, who had previously been with software developer Crystal Dynamics. David Kirk essentially became the Gary Tarolli of NVIDIA, and turned NVIDIA around by combining the company's 3D knowledge with his game development experience. Success NVIDIA was reborn, and after the success of the NV3, or RIVA 128, the entire company would quickly discard ties to its blemished past. The rest of course, is history. In retrospect, considering the magnitude of the failure of the NV2 it's no surprise that NVIDIA has never publicly disclosed the project. Still, the details of this incident only underline how much of a transformation NVIDIA has undergone. Five years ago, NVIDIA made mistakes that could have killed other companies, and today NVIDIA is a leader in its industry with no signs of slowing down. NVIDIA went from being a reject for the Sega Pico to the developers of the NV20 and the Microsoft Xbox. __________________________________________________ __________________________ ___ full articles can be found he http://www.firingsquad.com/features/...ry/default.asp http://www.firingsquad.com/features/nv2/default.asp |
#32
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#33
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Mr. Brian Allen wrote:
My post was 2KB. Sorry. To get to *one's* pithy response at the bottom. You were not one of the offenders. I'm trying to discover the relevancy of any of your postings. You've now made 6 postings in this thread bitching about the existence of the thread. Smart. And yet those posts combined represent less of a waste of bandwidth/time than Cygnus/R420's original post. Keen huh? -Z- |
#34
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R420 wrote:
for ****s sake "ZACKMAN" STFU already. Why the quotes around my name? Is your real name R420? nobody gives a flying **** that you don't like my threads. nobody. You sure seem to. As do your asslicking fans/alternate IDs. As do those of us who remember you as Cygnus, the Crossposter of Flamebaiting Bull****. You really haven't changed much at all. yet you continue responding to most of my posts by BITCHING. Is it starting to annoy you? Poor, poor baby. you're a joke. a sad, sad joke. Got any mirrors in your parents' basement? have fun constantly replying and wasting your time! Wasting my time? That's rich, coming from the vaginal discharge who spends virtually all day, every day, regurgitating news stories and crossposting them to as many newsgroups as he can find an excuse to. You're not gonna cry now or anything, are you? Well, breathe easy. I'm going out of town for a week and I won't have time to spend babysitting you. You ought to try it. Leaving your computer for more than 10 minutes, I mean. -Z- |
#35
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Did you guys really need to include all 13KB of the original post to add
your one paragraph responses? Just curious. -Z- for ****s sake "ZACKMAN" STFU already. nobody gives a flying **** that you don't like my threads. nobody. I can't stand your crossposting/flamewar causing posts either. Take an extra minute and post them separately. Is that so hard for you to do "Bringer of Balance?" What kills me the most, other than his incessant need to crosspost irrelevant content across 15 different groups, is that *he* always seems to have a suggestion for everyone else. If you don't like his posts, "don't read them" he'll say, or "shut the **** up" he likes to use....it's amusing how "Hey, why don't I just stop crossposting this ****, maybe just post it to the *one* group it's actually relevant in?" never seems to crawl into that thick skull... Bel -- Whip Ass Gaming: http://www.whipassgaming.com/ or http://users2.ev1.net/~belpowerslave/ "Here's a riddle: When is a croquette mallet like a billy club? I'll tell you; whenever you want it to be." - Cheshire Cat, American McGee's Alice |
#36
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"Zackman" wrote:
It has less to do with the size of the post and more to do with scrolling past 13KB of previously read, twice-quoted text to get to your pithy response buried at the bottom. Exactly, and it's poor posting habits like that that give fuel to the stupid top posters and their "I don't want to scroll" arguments. |
#37
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"R420" schreef in bericht om... "Zackman" wrote in message ... need for speed wrote: I believe you are thinking of the Diamond Edge 3D card. snip Did you guys really need to include all 13KB of the original post to add your one paragraph responses? Just curious. -Z- for ****s sake "ZACKMAN" STFU already. nobody gives a flying **** that you don't like my threads. nobody. yet you continue responding to most of my posts by BITCHING. you're a joke. a sad, sad joke. have fun constantly replying and wasting your time! I can understand his point, this story has been posted on sega groups millions of times before, you could just ahve provided a link.... |
#38
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