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#1
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ATX power supplies keep blowing
Hi all,
I'm having a bit of a problem and hoping someone here can at least give me a clue about what might be going on. About 3 weeks ago my PC (ASUS P4SE mainboard, Celeron 1.8GHz) suddenly started spitting out ATX power supplies for no apparent reason. I've gone through four power supplies since then, now onto my fifth. The power supplies don't go completely dead, they still supply some power to the mainboard and USB devices, but nothing else. No fan, no CPU. It's like they suddenly go into permanent "standby" mode and never work again. Put a new one in, and everything is fine. For about a week. Can anyone shed some light on what might be happening here? Would I be right in thinking that it's not the fuse blowing, otherwise it would be completely dead? And is it likely to be a problem with the electricity supply to my house, or could it be caused by something in the PC itself? This is getting annoying and expensive, so any help greatly appreciated. |
#2
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Sounds more like you are getting underpowered cheap power supplies. If
you are drawing more power than the power supply is rated for (and some are overrated in the first place as to how much power they will actually supply) then the power supply heats up and something blows. Hopefully it is a resettable fuse (after a cool down period the unit is ready again). Sometimes it is a fuse so you have to open its case to replace it (it might be in a snap-in holder or you have to do some snipping and soldering). Other times something pops and you can't find what to fix inside; a part might've exploded and you can see its remnants or it just vaporized and you might find the leads that went to it. Some power supplies recover after a prolonged overload, others can be repaired, and some just self destruct. Tally up the power consumed by everything that you have connected to the power supply. See if you can find what are the real specs for the power supply (see if you can find the maker's web site and if they provide anything useful but unfortunately many only give the combined power for the 5 and 12 volt taps). If it's a cheapy power supply, don't load it more than three-fourths of its rated power because that might be all it will really handle. If your system requires more than that, get a bigger power supply. Or get one that really can handle loads up to their rated power, like Antec, Fortron, Zalman, Enermax (I don't remember all the good ones right now). If you feel like doing some reading, Tom's Hardware has some interesting articles: http://www.tomshardware.com/column/20011012/index.html http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20021021/index.html http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20030609/index.html Also, it could be surges on your power line taking out the power supply. The best solution is a whole-home surge arrestor but sometimes that isn't practical or even legal (it may not be your property). If you have to use a surge protector, use only one. Don't use 2 or more surge protectors because one doesn't have enough outlets. Get one with lots of outlets or string outlet strips from the surge protector. You want to keep ALL power connections upstream of the one surge protector. Don't interconnect equipment that is connected to multiple surge protectors. Due to impedance differences between the surge protectors, you can end up with several hundred volts potential between them. And expect to pay some hefty money for a good surge protector. A UPS lets you keep your system up during a power outage but it may still provide little or no surge protection. Again, check out what surge protection features it has in addition to its power backup abilities. -- __________________________________________________ __________ *** Post replies to newsgroup. E-mail is not accepted. *** __________________________________________________ __________ "le ténébreux" wrote in message ... Hi all, I'm having a bit of a problem and hoping someone here can at least give me a clue about what might be going on. About 3 weeks ago my PC (ASUS P4SE mainboard, Celeron 1.8GHz) suddenly started spitting out ATX power supplies for no apparent reason. I've gone through four power supplies since then, now onto my fifth. The power supplies don't go completely dead, they still supply some power to the mainboard and USB devices, but nothing else. No fan, no CPU. It's like they suddenly go into permanent "standby" mode and never work again. Put a new one in, and everything is fine. For about a week. Can anyone shed some light on what might be happening here? Would I be right in thinking that it's not the fuse blowing, otherwise it would be completely dead? And is it likely to be a problem with the electricity supply to my house, or could it be caused by something in the PC itself? This is getting annoying and expensive, so any help greatly appreciated. |
#3
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Some basic information. When one claims that surges on
power line might be causing problems, then poster is not technically informed. Too many are easily made victims of propaganda promoted by plug-in surge protector manufacturers. Surges typically occur once every eight years - which they don't want you to know. If suffering daily surges, then you are trooping daily to the hardware store to replace electronic appliances. Are you suffering daily electrical appliance failures? If not paying about $80 retail for that new power supply, then immediately suspect that as where to begin seeking a reason for failure. If power supply manufacturer is not provided with a long list of specifications, then supply probably is missing essential functions. However if doing hardware repair / replacement - especially involving power supplies - a 3.5 digit multimeter and associated data is necessary. Data in chart at: http://www.hardwaresite.net/faqpowersupply.html Tom's Hardware, for example, demonstrated by experiment how many supplies do not even output power as claimed. But it goes farther - much farther. No power supply can be damaged by too much load. Power supply outputs can even be shorted together and power supply still would not be damaged. If power supply fails under normal load, then most likely reasons include manufacturing defects, undersized supply, or failures associated with motherboard. Which one? That is what meter data would first suggest. You know one important number - how much was paid for that supply. Other numbers essential to answer your question include those provided by multimeter and the so many numbers provided by manufacturer's specifications. If the latter is not provided, then you all but know that supply is missing essential internal functions. Don't just wildly replace supplies. First collect facts so that you know where reason for failure is located. Fact #1 comes from that multimeter. Even fans spinning or not spinning just don't provide sufficient information. That meter costs less than a new supply. "le ténébreux" wrote: I'm having a bit of a problem and hoping someone here can at least give me a clue about what might be going on. About 3 weeks ago my PC (ASUS P4SE mainboard, Celeron 1.8GHz) suddenly started spitting out ATX power supplies for no apparent reason. I've gone through four power supplies since then, now onto my fifth. The power supplies don't go completely dead, they still supply some power to the mainboard and USB devices, but nothing else. No fan, no CPU. It's like they suddenly go into permanent "standby" mode and never work again. Put a new one in, and everything is fine. For about a week. Can anyone shed some light on what might be happening here? Would I be right in thinking that it's not the fuse blowing, otherwise it would be completely dead? And is it likely to be a problem with the electricity supply to my house, or could it be caused by something in the PC itself? This is getting annoying and expensive, so any help greatly appreciated. |
#4
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"le ténébreux" wrote in message ... Hi all, I'm having a bit of a problem and hoping someone here can at least give me a clue about what might be going on. About 3 weeks ago my PC (ASUS P4SE mainboard, Celeron 1.8GHz) suddenly started spitting out ATX power supplies for no apparent reason. I've gone through four power supplies since then, now onto my fifth. The power supplies don't go completely dead, they still supply some power to the mainboard and USB devices, but nothing else. No fan, no CPU. It's like they suddenly go into permanent "standby" mode and never work again. Put a new one in, and everything is fine. For about a week. Can anyone shed some light on what might be happening here? Would I be right in thinking that it's not the fuse blowing, otherwise it would be completely dead? And is it likely to be a problem with the electricity supply to my house, or could it be caused by something in the PC itself? This is getting annoying and expensive, so any help greatly appreciated. In addition to what was already said there are three other strong possibilities. 1. Check the voltage at the receptacle should be between 105 and 125 volts, if it isn't call an electrician. Next turn the computer on and have someone play a game while you check the voltage. If it drops below 100v Call an electrician. Also check to make sure there are not any large appliances on the same circuit as your computer. Computers should really be on their own circuit. 2. Your system may have a short that is overloading the PSU. They way to check this is quite complex so generally if you have not had any electronics training it's quit difficult to do. However if you have eliminated everything else and don't want to send the unit to the shop let me know and I'll see if I can walk you thru it. 3. the motherboard may indeed be putting the power supplies in standby mode. Did you check to make sure the PSUs were bad. Lane |
#5
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Vanguard wrote:
Sounds more like you are getting underpowered cheap power supplies. If you are drawing more power than the power supply is rated for (and some are overrated in the first place as to how much power they will actually supply) then the power supply heats up and something blows. Thanks for the reply. That was the first thing I suspected, because I could actually hear the cooling fans slow down slightly when it was doing something CPU-intensive (I'm pretty sure that's not normal). When I explained this, the PC repair guy assured me I was delusional and replaced it with the same thing, warning me not to bother coming back if it blew again because the warranty wouldn't cover a fault with my equipment (which was the only thing it could possibly be), and would I be interested in purchasing a surge protector. As I found out, it's not easy to get real answers from someone who's standing behind a cash register. Anyway, I've managed to got hold of a different brand this time which was about twice the price of the others, and the PC actually sounds a little healthier now. It would still be nice to know what sort of thing could have caused it... no power supply problems in about six years, and then four fail all at once. |
#6
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w_tom wrote:
Some basic information. When one claims that surges on power line might be causing problems, then poster is not technically informed. Too many are easily made victims of propaganda promoted by plug-in surge protector manufacturers. Surges typically occur once every eight years - which they don't want you to know. :-( I just bought one, thinking it might help. If suffering daily surges, then you are trooping daily to the hardware store to replace electronic appliances. Are you suffering daily electrical appliance failures? Nothing at all except ATX power supplies. If not paying about $80 retail for that new power supply, then immediately suspect that as where to begin seeking a reason for failure. If power supply manufacturer is not provided with a long list of specifications, then supply probably is missing essential functions. .... You know one important number - how much was paid for that supply. I have no idea which manufacturers are reputable and which are not, but the first one that blew was a CODEGEN 350W power supply that had been purchased new about 4 months previously ($55 Australian) and had been running just fine up until then. I replaced that with an older 300W supply that I had lying around (no brand name, it came with a PC case). That died within three days. I went back to the shop where I got the first one, and bought another CODEGEN 350W which blew up after a week. They replaced it free under warranty but made it clear that they would not replace any more (and I don't think I blame them). Again, it went after only a week. So although this latest one is my fifth power supply, it's only the second replacement I've had to purchase. It's a "Herolchi" 300W. ($115 Australian). Twice the price - here's hoping it lasts at least two weeks instead of one. |
#7
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Lane Lewis wrote:
1. Check the voltage at the receptacle should be between 105 and 125 volts, if it isn't call an electrician. Next turn the computer on and have someone play a game while you check the voltage. If it drops below 100v Call an electrician. Also check to make sure there are not any large appliances on the same circuit as your computer. Computers should really be on their own circuit. I'm in Australia, where it's ~240 volts. Point taken though, I'll get an electrician to check that it's working as it should. The computer room only has a single power socket, and the only things plugged into that are the PC, monitor, printer and ADSL modem. Nothing else ever malfunctions, blows fuses, or does anything weird. Ever. 2. Your system may have a short that is overloading the PSU. They way to check this is quite complex so generally if you have not had any electronics training it's quit difficult to do. However if you have eliminated everything else and don't want to send the unit to the shop let me know and I'll see if I can walk you thru it. I do have some basic knowledge of electronics, but no testing equipment. I would have thought that if something was shorting out, there would be some other symptoms? Something ought to be malfunctioning at the very least, if functioning at all. 3. the motherboard may indeed be putting the power supplies in standby mode. Did you check to make sure the PSUs were bad. This can happen? Really? I didn't do any testing beyond noting that the power supply failed to start the PC. When they "fail", it's very much like going into standby mode. Everything shuts down instantly, and the only signs of life are the LED on the mainboard and the light in the optical mouse. But no amount of unplugging, button pushing, or expletives can convince it to power up again. I've still got two of them here. Is there any way to check if this has happened, and maybe reset them? |
#8
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On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:36:18 +1000, "le ténébreux"
wrote: I have no idea which manufacturers are reputable and which are not, but the first one that blew was a CODEGEN 350W power supply that had been purchased new about 4 months previously ($55 Australian) and had been running just fine up until then. I replaced that with an older 300W supply that I had lying around (no brand name, it came with a PC case). That died within three days. I went back to the shop where I got the first one, and bought another CODEGEN 350W which blew up after a week. They replaced it free under warranty but made it clear that they would not replace any more (and I don't think I blame them). Again, it went after only a week. This is where your problem is, you keep using junk power supplies. After you'd (told them?) why you needed a power supply, they should've recommended something suitable, but instead your components were risked so they could make an extra $. Luckily the system is working still. You should blame the shop, because they knew the relative quality of the power supply, else are grossly incompetent and sold a part with no idea whether it'd work. Your system is not particularly power hungry or unique, it's just that a Codengen or other generic is not worth the capacity printed on the label, and cut corners wherever possible. So although this latest one is my fifth power supply, it's only the second replacement I've had to purchase. It's a "Herolchi" 300W. ($115 Australian). Twice the price - here's hoping it lasts at least two weeks instead of one. The Herolchi 300W versions I've seen are quite a bit better than the Codegen, it's a mid-grade power supply, was relabeled by Antec to be their model PP303XP. Dave |
#9
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"le ténébreux" wrote in message ...
I'm having a bit of a problem and hoping someone here can at least give me a clue about what might be going on. About 3 weeks ago my PC (ASUS P4SE mainboard, Celeron 1.8GHz) suddenly started spitting out ATX power supplies for no apparent reason. I've gone through four power supplies since then, now onto my fifth. Does your Codegen look anything like this one? http://www.mikhailtech.com/articles/...egen350-07.jpg In the lower left corner, near the donut choke wrapped with red and white wires, is an empty space on the circuit board where I think a capacitor would normally go to help reduce EMI. As far as I can tell, this PSU doesn't have another EMI filter, such as at the AC receptacle, and in another PSU made by the same company, Deer, all of the EMI filter components were left out, including the choke. Also in front of the missing capacitor, next to the fuse, is a place labelled TR1 with a jumper soldered there, but that should be a thermistor to help reduce the surge at turn-on. If you ever decide to buy an inexpensive PSU, it's possible that the Q-tec 300-350W models are good, even though the higher powered ones are supposedly junk. http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...t=killed +psu shows a VIP brand 350W version of the same PSU in this photo http://members.optusnet.com.au/funked/psu/7.jpg , and the thread's originator thinks it's of decent quality. The other PSU may be a Deer, with some components upgraded or added to improve the quality. |
#10
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kony wrote:
This is where your problem is, you keep using junk power supplies. After you'd (told them?) why you needed a power supply, they should've recommended something suitable, but instead your components were risked so they could make an extra $. Luckily the system is working still. It's good to know I at least got something a bit better this time. Seriously, up until the past few days I had no idea these things could vary that much in quality, or that they could break so easily. When you ask PC hardware suppliers here about these things, they tend to dodge the question by looking at you like you're mentally retarded and asking you what essential safety equipment you have installed. I'll be a bit more careful in future about letting these guys tell me what I want. |
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