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#1
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Voltage of Speaker Out in 8-bit SoundBlaster card
How much is it? I also found a pair of old HE Nicole D 100-3008-03 speakers, used to be my speakers for the 8-bit SoundBlaster card. What voltage is needed to drive it? -- @~@ Remain silent. Nothing from soldiers and magicians is real! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and farces be with you! /( _ )\ (Fedora release 21) Linux 3.18.8-201.fc21.i686+PAE ^ ^ 18:15:01 up 2 days 1:40 0 users load average: 0.00 0.06 0.07 不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa |
#2
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Voltage of Speaker Out in 8-bit SoundBlaster card
Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
How much is it? I also found a pair of old HE Nicole D 100-3008-03 speakers, used to be my speakers for the 8-bit SoundBlaster card. What voltage is needed to drive it? There is a spec for the 1989 CT1320 here. http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowA....aspx?sid=5800 It apparently drives a speaker, and has no Line Out ? "Output Power (Max.): 4 Watts at 4 Ohms PMPO (Amp out)" Does that mean monophonic output, and one signal driving 4 ohms ? Or is the output stereo, 2W per channel, and there is a stereo jack output ? And PMPO, might be one of those dishonest Peak Music Power Output specs. So we really don't have a reliable power rating to work with at all. Sheer fabrication. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_power "Peak power is also referred to as max power or PMPO (Peak Music Power Output).[10] It is often five or six times greater than the continuous ("RMS") rating." The DC power spec for the CT1320. Most power is from +12V rail. Yet, there is a lot of hungry jelly bean logic on the card, and I don't see that reflected properly in these DC power numbers. I thought one of the chips on this board was a processor, and likely not a low power one. "Supply Voltage Requirement (Loading): +5, +12, -12 Volt Current Consumption (Typical): 50, 500, 30 mA respectively" Try a 4 ohm or an 8 ohm speaker with the thing, and see what you get. The info I've got available here, I can't really predict all that much about the thing. If I could make out the part number and actually find a datasheet for the amplifier chip, I might make more sense from it. The amp is the chip sitting on that separate analog ground plane. I can't even be sure the thing is stereo. Is that amp chip stereo ? Or is it mono ? You will be able to tell, by turning over the PCB, and looking at how many "solder bumps" are used to wire up the output port connectors. Right now, that card has all the look of a monophonic design. Life is full of puzzles. Paul |
#3
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Voltage of Speaker Out in 8-bit SoundBlaster card
How many volts should I use to power these speakers? Both 5V and 12V are OK? On 13/3/15 7:54 PM, Paul wrote: Try a 4 ohm or an 8 ohm speaker with the thing, and see what you get. The info I've got available here, I can't really predict all that much about the thing. If I could make out the part number -- @~@ Remain silent. Nothing from soldiers and magicians is real! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and farces be with you! /( _ )\ (Fedora release 21) Linux 3.18.8-201.fc21.i686+PAE ^ ^ 23:24:01 up 2 days 6:49 0 users load average: 0.07 0.08 0.06 不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa |
#4
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Voltage of Speaker Out in 8-bit SoundBlaster card
"Mr. Man-wai Chang" wrote in message ... How much is it? I also found a pair of old HE Nicole D 100-3008-03 speakers, used to be my speakers for the 8-bit SoundBlaster card. What voltage is needed to drive it? I'm not finding any specs for those speakers- Google comes up blank. Are they powered speakers? Is there a jack on the side/back with a AC or DC designation? If they are not powered speakers, then they require nothing other than connecting them to your SoundBlaster speaker out. The (+) side would go to the center pole of one output and the (-) would go to the ground side. Does the SB card have RCA jacks for connecting the speakers? That's where the (+) and (-) would connect. -- SC Tom |
#5
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Voltage of Speaker Out in 8-bit SoundBlaster card
SC Tom wrote:
"Mr. Man-wai Chang" wrote in message ... How much is it? I also found a pair of old HE Nicole D 100-3008-03 speakers, used to be my speakers for the 8-bit SoundBlaster card. What voltage is needed to drive it? I'm not finding any specs for those speakers- Google comes up blank. Are they powered speakers? Is there a jack on the side/back with a AC or DC designation? If they are not powered speakers, then they require nothing other than connecting them to your SoundBlaster speaker out. The (+) side would go to the center pole of one output and the (-) would go to the ground side. Does the SB card have RCA jacks for connecting the speakers? That's where the (+) and (-) would connect. I couldn't find anything on the speakers either. It sounds like Man-wai sees an adapter input, as well as an analog signal input. In which case they're amplified speakers of some sort. To get good power levels in an audio amplifier circuit, usually takes more DC voltage than you see in logic circuits. In the example of the Sound Blaster card, the audio amp chip is likely running between +12V and GND, is capacitively coupled on ourput, and you get a few watts from it. I would expect the amplifier inside the Nicole speaker to be something like that too. Unless the Nicole speaker is three feet high, has a 100W rating, in which case the DC operating voltage could be 40-50V or so. My component stereo (the one that died), used high unregulated voltages like that, on the hybrid amplifier module. ******* The speakers I'd connect to an amplified Sound Blaster (with its own amplifier chip onboard), would be speakers like this. I like oval speakers, having had some "voice coil scraping" problems with circular speakers. Oval speakers never let me down. This is a 4 ohm speaker, so should do a decent job of getting whatever imaginary power level the Sound Blaster amp can produce. The only thing I'd avoid, is connecting a 2 ohm speaker to the 4 ohm SoundBlaster Amp Out. I'd err on the higher side, rather than the lower side. A 4 ohm or an 8 ohm would likely work, but as the impedance goes up, the power transfer goes down (less sound). http://docs-europe.electrocomponents...6b80116cf1.pdf On real speakers, you use an enclosure with a tuned port (opening on the back), to make the most of the low power levels involved. ******* So we're dealing with a couple generations of electronics, and a transition from which side does the amplifying. The first diagram, is the old way of doing it, from 1989. Sound Card ------------- Passive Speaker, two solder terminals (integrated low or terminals that accept bare wires. power amp chip) Bookshelf tuned port speakers being an example. Sound Card ----------------- Amplified speakers with their own power source (LineOut only Power output only limited by price 1V RMS, can only Computer speakers expect ~1V RMS input drive 32 ohm headphones Adjustable gain, to suit other signal sources It doesn't work as well, mixing the Sound Card in the upper one, with the speakers in the lower one. More distortion results from using two audio amplifiers in a row. You would want to be careful not to set the volume on the computer too high, if mixing the top sound card, with the bottom amplified speaker concept. HTH, Paul |
#6
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Voltage of Speaker Out in 8-bit SoundBlaster card
On Fri, 13 Mar 2015 18:18:21 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang"
wrote: How much is it? I also found a pair of old HE Nicole D 100-3008-03 speakers, used to be my speakers for the 8-bit SoundBlaster card. What voltage is needed to drive it? The portion *below is pretty simple. (Unfortunately, the rest is however not unless you've a electronic physicist's grasp of mathematics and respective fundamental principles applicable to their foci.) Your Line Levels may be suited "the load" - I know with soundcards both with various headphones and software/changeable headphone output impedance settings - results can vary from pleasantly to nothing short of earhole pain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_level (The "strength" of these various signals does not necessarily refer to the output voltage of the source device; it also depends on its output impedance and output power capability.) - *The driving *force* (F), that sets the *diaphragm* in motion, is proportional to the current (I) flowing through the voice coil according to the well known formula F = B l I where the product B l is called force factor (B = magnetic flux density; l = wire length in the magnetic field). B is the flux density that exists when the current is zero. This force, then, determines the acceleration (A) of the diaphragm, which in the main operation area (the mass-controlled region) is got from the Newtonian law F = mA. The radiated pressure, in turn, follows the instantaneous acceleration ... The most remarkable thing here regarding loudspeakers is that the voltage between the ends of the wire does not appear anywhere in these equations. That is, the speaker driver in the end obeys only current, not caring what the voltage across the terminals happens to be. http://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4423155/1/ Loudspeaker-operation--The-superiority-of-current-drive-over-voltage-drive |
#7
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Voltage of Speaker Out in 8-bit SoundBlaster card
On 14/3/15 2:38 AM, SC Tom wrote:
I'm not finding any specs for those speakers- Google comes up blank. Are they powered speakers? Is there a jack on the side/back with a AC or DC designation? If they are not powered speakers, then they require nothing other than connecting them to your SoundBlaster speaker out. The (+) side would go to the center pole of one output and the (-) would go to the ground side. Does the SB card have RCA jacks for connecting the speakers? That's where the (+) and (-) would connect. I would like to use them as speakers for an iPod. But it needs extra power as no sound could be heard by connecting them to the 3.5mm socket of the iPod. That's why I asked how many volts would be needed to drive them. -- @~@ Remain silent. Nothing from soldiers and magicians is real! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and farces be with you! /( _ )\ (Fedora release 21) Linux 3.18.8-201.fc21.i686+PAE ^ ^ 20:33:02 up 3 days 1:35 0 users load average: 0.01 0.04 0.05 不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa |
#8
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Voltage of Speaker Out in 8-bit SoundBlaster card
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 20:37:02 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang"
wrote: I would like to use them as speakers for an iPod. But it needs extra power as no sound could be heard by connecting them to the 3.5mm socket of the iPod. That's why I asked how many volts would be needed to drive them. When soundcards generally gave up their voltages (for standardized convenience and not longer driving passive speakers) -- getting "something for nothing," then, at least nothing not involving another ugly wallwart voltage supply for internal speaker opamps -- becomes problematic. Enter "USB speakers" - nifty neato Singapore devices (variously branded for not much money);- the USB device then intelligently picks them up for routing to the OS chain, as well drawing USB voltages for powering the speaker driver. Still, there's [a few] more wires involved, their included speakers are utterly horrid (compared to passive substitutions even if a 4w soundcard line out). But, for a pinch in getting critical audio information - they're perfect;- say a quick telephone spkr/mic computer application if other speakers/monitors aren't readily available. Does an iPod talk appropriate USB? https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT1584 (If so, perhaps easiest to find them on an Amazon search "USB powered speakers" pattern - where Ebay tends be widely, logically too diverse at times.) I've always felt MB's faulted on a design deficiency for not incorporating at least cheap-o piezo speaker caps, minimalist for audibly conveying at least discernable vocal level reproduction. Are two such caps (stereo) incorported into suitable front case "button holes" really asking that much? (I've also seen USB versions for a 3.5" case plate conversion, although they never popularly caught on and are the rare item. ...Easy things for various project approaches, nevertheless, dedicated OpAmp PCBs included on a likes of Singapore/DealExtreme.) |
#9
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Voltage of Speaker Out in 8-bit SoundBlaster card
Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
On 14/3/15 2:38 AM, SC Tom wrote: I'm not finding any specs for those speakers- Google comes up blank. Are they powered speakers? Is there a jack on the side/back with a AC or DC designation? If they are not powered speakers, then they require nothing other than connecting them to your SoundBlaster speaker out. The (+) side would go to the center pole of one output and the (-) would go to the ground side. Does the SB card have RCA jacks for connecting the speakers? That's where the (+) and (-) would connect. I would like to use them as speakers for an iPod. But it needs extra power as no sound could be heard by connecting them to the 3.5mm socket of the iPod. That's why I asked how many volts would be needed to drive them. Can you do any better on a model number ? Post a picture up on your favorite photo sharing site. If you need a photo site that doesn't require user registration, you can use tinypic.com (limited size photos, try 1024x768). I don't need a picture of the entire speaker, because image file based searches just aren't good enough to be executed that way. Things I would want to see are the 1) Input jacks, for audio input and power input. Sometimes, the plastic of the chassis has a "legend" molded into the plastic with the actual voltage value printed. Normally you can't see that, because no contrasting color is used. You have to know it's there, to be able to observe it. I've missed this detail on a number of occasions. 2) Take a closeup of the model number plate on the back, so we can see if there is anything more that can be extracted from it. ******* I've given this lecture before. There are three kinds of power sources. 1) AC (just a transformer powers the device) (Or it is powered directly from the mains) 2) Unregulated DC (transformer plus rectifier plus filter cap) (Voltage level is "load sensitive") 3) Regulated DC (transformer plus rectifier plus filter cap + *regulator*) (Voltage level is perfectly constant) The legend in the plastic will say "9VDC", but will not distinguish between cases (2) and (3). Even Paul got caught by this. I bought a label-maker, a device that prints labels on colored plastic. The plastic strips have adhesive backing. I label the controls on instruments with it. I buy the thing, and the input says "7VDC". The matching transformer at the store is like $50. So Paul, being clever (and cheap), decides to go to Radio Shack and buy a 7V supply. I could get one for $30 or less, and get it immediately. When it is plugged in, the label maker display powers up, but every time you click the print button, nothing happens. So the power source just isn't right (and I've wasted $30). But it is precisely 7VDC (I checked). What could be wrong ? The power source it really wanted, was "7VDC Unregulated". When the device is idling, the voltage level rises to around 11 VDC or so. This is sufficient to initiate operation, and the voltage level drops while the label is being printed. So the label molded into the plastic, isn't perfect, because it doesn't tell us (2) from (3). But at least it gets us in the right ballpark, and no smoke comes out of the thing. ******* When a unit has no markings, open the unit and check the WVDC rating of the capacitors. This requires knowledge of just which capacitors to look at. You would be looking at a capacitor in the power supply section. The WVDC places an upper bound on the allowed voltage. (It may say 35V, when the device runs at 9V, so this knowledge hardly helps. But it does rule out the usage of an infinite voltage.) Also, check the silk screen legend (white letters on the printed circuit board). It doesn't happen too often, but sometimes you get lucky, and the value is printed there. To get my computer speakers apart, was particularly difficult. I needed to repair my computer speakers, which were defective when purchased. I had to take a saw, and cut a slit in the top of the speaker, along the glued seam. Then, using my collection of screw drivers and pry bars, I ripped it apart with brute strength. There was one cold solder joint inside. The unit did not use screws, and used contact cement to glue the casing. I've had the speakers now for 15 years, and they're probably the best computer item I ever purchased (in terms of getting your money's worth). Only $20. The saw mark blemish on the top of the speaker with the amplifier board inside it, looks ugly, but the speakers work fine. (The back view of my brand of computer speaker. This would be the left speaker. This is the kind of picture I want to see. ACS21W.) http://sishardware.com/imgs/a/a/z/z/...s a_3_lgw.jpg Paul |
#10
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Voltage of Speaker Out in 8-bit SoundBlaster card
On 14/3/15 6:15 PM, Flasherly wrote:
*The driving *force* (F), that sets the *diaphragm* in motion, is proportional to the current (I) flowing through the voice coil according to the well known formula F = B l I where the product B l is called force factor (B = magnetic flux density; l = wire length in the magnetic field). B is the flux density that exists when the current is zero. This force, then, determines the acceleration (A) of the diaphragm, which in the main operation area (the mass-controlled region) is got from the Newtonian law F = mA. The radiated pressure, in turn, follows the instantaneous acceleration ... Until I find the right voltage to test the speakers, I am not sure whether the speakers could still work. It's NOT been used for over 20 years.... -- @~@ Remain silent. Nothing from soldiers and magicians is real! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and farces be with you! /( _ )\ (Fedora release 21) Linux 3.18.8-201.fc21.i686+PAE ^ ^ 00:03:01 up 3 days 5:05 0 users load average: 0.14 0.07 0.06 不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa |
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